00:00:43 davidb has joined #html-a11y 00:27:13 ericc|away has left #html-a11y 00:56:57 MikeSmith has joined #html-a11y 01:04:49 MikeSmith has joined #html-a11y 01:11:11 MikeSmith has joined #html-a11y 01:12:42 MikeSmith has joined #html-a11y 15:00:22 RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y 15:00:22 logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/09/02-html-a11y-irc 15:00:29 jongund has joined #html-a11y 15:00:33 zakim, this will be WAI_PFWG(HTML) 15:00:33 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, janina 15:00:54 zakim, this will be WAI_PFWG(HTML 15:00:54 ok, janina, I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM already started 15:00:57 Stevef has joined #html-a11y 15:01:01 zakim, call janina 15:01:01 ok, janina; the call is being made 15:01:02 +Janina 15:01:09 Sounds like Hurricane Earl on the phone! 15:01:52 JF has joined #html-a11y 15:02:16 Meeting: HTML-A11Y telecon 15:02:16 Chair: Janina_Sajka 15:02:16 agenda: this 15:02:16 agenda+ Identify Scribe 15:02:16 agenda+ Actions Review 15:02:17 agenda+ Subteam Reports: Canvas; ARIA Mappings; Media; Bug Triage 15:02:19 agenda+ Media Accessibility User Requirements 15:02:21 agenda+ TF Recommendations Followup & Updates 15:02:23 agenda+ Keyboard Access Requirements 15:02:25 agenda+ Drag & Drop Discussion 15:02:27 agenda+ W3C Bugzilla Accessibility 15:02:29 agenda+ next meetings, confirm date/time, choose scribe 15:02:31 agenda+ be done 15:02:43 zakim, who's here? 15:02:44 On the phone I see Eric_Carlson, ??P2, ??P18, [Microsoft], Janina 15:02:49 On IRC I see JF, Stevef, jongund, RRSAgent, Zakim, kliehm, paulc, eric_carlson, Mike^sento, MichaelC, davidb, janina, trackbot 15:02:54 +John_Foliot 15:04:09 zakim, ??P2 15:04:22 +kliehm 15:04:34 zakim, [Microsoft] has paulc 15:04:37 I don't understand '??P2', jongund 15:04:55 +paulc; got it 15:05:01 +Michael_Cooper 15:05:04 zakim, ??P18 is jongund 15:05:21 +jongund; got it 15:05:34 richardschwerdtfe has joined #html-a11y 15:05:40 Zakim, call Mike 15:05:47 zakim, who's here? 15:05:48 ok, Mike^sento; the call is being made 15:05:50 +Mike 15:05:58 zakim, ??P2 is Steve_Faulkner 15:06:03 On the phone I see Eric_Carlson, ??P2, jongund, [Microsoft], Janina, John_Foliot, kliehm (muted), Michael_Cooper, Mike (muted) 15:06:07 Zakim, Mike is me 15:06:08 [Microsoft] has paulc 15:06:10 +Rich 15:06:12 +Steve_Faulkner; got it 15:06:16 On IRC I see richardschwerdtfe, JF, Stevef, jongund, RRSAgent, Zakim, kliehm, paulc, eric_carlson, Mike, MichaelC, davidb, janina, trackbot 15:06:19 zakim, ??p2 is Steve_Faulkner 15:06:21 +Mike; got it 15:06:29 I already had ??P2 as Steve_Faulkner, janina 15:06:50 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List 15:07:15 PaulC declines scribe opporunity since I am chairing the Weekly WG call today and have to leave early. 15:09:10 JS: Action item review 15:09:26 zakim, scribe is jongund 15:09:26 sorry, jongund, I do not recognize a party named 'scribe' 15:09:46 scribe: jongund 15:09:46 scribe: jongund 15:09:53 MS: Action 47 on SF to file a bug on making autocomplete consistent with ARIA 15:09:59 SF: Will do 15:10:07 MS: No status? 15:10:08 +Marco_Ranon 15:10:11 SF: No 15:10:26 Marco_Ranon has joined #html-a11y 15:10:57 JS: Bug sub team, did we formalize?? 15:11:14 MC: We made decisions, but not formally 15:11:43 JS: We talked about responsibilities last week, and the sub teams could put up proposals 15:11:52 JS: Comment on sub teams? 15:12:07 JS: Any objections of giving them sub team status? 15:12:20 MC: We have had 3 meetings, one as sub team 15:12:25 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Bug_Triage 15:12:26 -> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Bug_Triage Bug Triage wiki page 15:12:32 MC: I setup a wiki page for bug triage 15:12:42 Could the scribe go on mute? The typing is quite distracting. 15:12:57 MC: We have taken all the items declared as bugs 15:13:06 MC: We are meeting on Tuesdays 15:13:15 JS: Anyone can participate 15:13:29 JS: Are you sending out agendas? 15:13:52 -> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?keywords=a11ytf&bug_status=RESOLVED&resolution=NEEDSINFO&resolution=INVALID&resolution=WONTFIX Bugs with high priority 15:13:58 MC: No, but we have not formally set a chair, our agenda is to go through bugs 15:14:29 JS: Loosing your audio MC 15:14:51 MC: I am on the noisy microphone 15:15:18 MC: I pasted in the bugzilla query we are going through 15:15:37 RS: Is this just the HTML specs or does it include canvas 15:15:52 MC: We are using the Accessibility task force key words 15:16:31 MC: Two weeks ago we talked about the ALT text bugs, they were not considered a priority since they were in good hands, canvas the same way 15:16:39 RS: I am concerned about canvas 15:16:50 The key word is #a11yTF, originally triaging #a11y bugs 15:17:06 MC: We would probably send canvas issue to you (RS) 15:17:26 JS: The are many of these meetings going on 15:18:10 MC: Now that we are empowered to make decisions, more people may attend 15:18:41 JS: Thank you MC, I think the team should nominate there own lead 15:18:54 JS: JF media update, or I can 15:19:20 JF: User requirements document, to the wider working group on the next call 15:19:33 JF: It is still a fluid living document 15:20:02 JF: We are trying to map user requirements with different technologies we are talking about, enormous question 15:20:37 JF: We are just trying to identify technologies, there is active working being done, the timelines are very aggresive 15:20:50 JF: There will be a table by this weekend 15:20:57 JS: Questions or discussions? 15:21:11 JS: JF ARIA Mapping update? 15:21:26 JF: There have been a slew of bugs 15:21:39 JF: We are waiting for the HTML% editor to respond 15:21:48 -Michael_Cooper 15:21:59 +Michael_Cooper 15:22:03 ... coming off mute 15:22:04 JF: We were lead to believe where we are going with this today, nothing so far 15:22:18 JF: The over arching bug is #1066 15:22:37 s/#1066/#10066/ 15:22:48 PC: I think you have the description exactly correct, I have not seen it either 15:23:11 PC: We were suppose to get extensibility proposal, that is not here yet 15:23:41 PC: There is a W3C survey on the licensing of HTML5, so this maybe keeping people pretty busy, stay tuned 15:24:06 SF: We were lead to believe the bugs would be responded to by this date 15:24:31 PC: I did too, if he doesn't deliver the report or come, I will take it off line 15:24:57 SF: we have been working hard all week, and now I feel we are swinging in the wind 15:25:12 JS: I am not what PC can say 15:25:36 SF: I feel some frustration, and now I am not sure where we are going 15:26:01 PC: I am opening a private chat with sam 15:26:23 SF: It is hard to have faith in the process when we do something and then... 15:26:52 JS: SF you have good points and it is in the minutes 15:27:03 JS: An on going area of work 15:27:10 JS: Canvus?? 15:27:35 RS: What has happened with that I submitted the Opera guys, I have not heard for 3 weeks 15:27:52 s/Canvus??/Canvas/ 15:28:04 RS: I would like to have this tied to drawing calls, would help authors 15:28:26 RS: We have concerns about implementation 15:28:41 RS: We have concerns from developers about implementation 15:29:10 RS: We tried CMN approach, he wants it just his way, this a late edition 15:29:21 RS: SF what do you think? 15:29:59 SF: I am not sure how much it will be to create image maps over canvas, it seems doable 15:30:43 RS: You need to rewrtie all the AREA implementations, new methods and properties, clickable regions, it will be alot of work, CMN has raised this 15:31:14 SF: The addition of usemap which is similar, but limited, then there is full blown, more capabilities 15:31:34 s/rewrtie/rewrite/ 15:31:46 s/similar/simplier/ 15:32:05 RS: We do not seem to be getting alot of progress 15:32:25 JS: We should try to clear up where we are going 15:33:07 JS: The caret drawing seems to be a preferred implementation, but we are sure if someone will do it, do not have enough spec? 15:33:19 RS: Ian wanted it one minute and then not the next minute 15:33:58 RS: I have a limited amount of time, so I need to know if we are going the caret API route 15:34:30 JS: I don't know if that will work, how to we unblock this, we have some missunderstandings 15:35:06 RS: Ian said write the defect and we will do it, but then he said he would not do, its frustrated with just going through Ian 15:35:14 RS: I am not sure what to do 15:35:44 JS: I don't if I have an answer for this, but will try to get something at next coordination call 15:35:55 RS: PC what is the next step? 15:36:26 PC: JS and the cohairs will need to take this off line, I understand you concerns, one side 15:36:55 JS: PC can help, but I want it communicated well, I am not looking for a solution today, but we need some 15:37:14 JF: We need an improvement on what is currently there in canvas 15:37:29 JF: If we have some improvement, then that might .... 15:37:59 s/JF/SteveF 15:38:11 JS: I am status qo for over a year, we put up proposals, I would like to see something on the current proposals 15:39:06 JS: I don't question that there needs to be accessibility for canvas, the process has been a discussion topic, no one is happy right now 15:39:50 JS: This goes all he way to the top in W3C management, we need to improve the process, good proposals are not going away, we need to figure out how to get unstuck 15:40:37 RS: At least for me If the chairs can get ARIA implementation in HTML5 15:40:45 PC: That sounds like a good idea to me 15:41:13 PC: It may not move as fast as you want, but at least you have comitter on the other side 15:41:30 RS: PC have you heard about the keyboard drag and drop from MS? 15:41:47 PC: it is in my inbox, it is pending 15:42:38 Paul to provide background info on keyboard drag and drop from Microsoft. 15:42:56 ACTION paulc: Provide background keyboard support for drag and drop (3 weeks) 15:42:56 Created ACTION-57 - Provide background keyboard support for drag and drop (3 weeks) [on Paul Cotton - due 2010-09-09]. 15:43:33 JS: Mike Smith are you also working on this? 15:43:38 JS: Are you there? 15:43:43 JS: We lost mike 15:44:03 JS: Since we are out of order, PC you asked about Bugzilla 15:44:10 -Steve_Faulkner 15:44:34 TOPIC: bugzilla accessibility 15:44:38 PC: Laura has filed a bug about the decision policy, making bugzilla more accessible 15:45:01 PC: Laura and JS providing me with pointers I could not find 15:45:29 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jul/0146.html 15:45:31 PC: We thought maybe upgrading would improve accessibility, but there are still outstanding issues 15:46:00 PC: I don't think my co-chairs will agree that issue is a blocker 15:46:17 PC: We need to take this to the W3C to see if they can come up with a solution 15:46:33 RS: Isn't this a mozilla project?? 15:46:58 JS: It doesn't make sense to make this an HTML5 issue, it is a worthy topic 15:47:32 JS: The mozilla people will want us to use the latest version, before we can suggest accessibility enhancements 15:47:59 JS: We should log the issue and we need to take it somewhere else 15:48:28 Isn't one option to send a message to the Systems team asking them to look into this? 15:48:42 JS: We need a path to improve accessibility, but where should this issue go, I don't think ou group should own it 15:49:04 +Michael_Cooper.a 15:49:07 RS: Who is responsible for W3C tools? 15:49:22 JS: I was hoping MC would be able to tell us? 15:50:12 (wondering if we will get back to Item #4: TF Recommendations Followup & Updates) 15:50:15 MC: We can't solve the problem of bugzilla accessibility, it is a W3C wide issue, I can take it to Hyper text, they may want other, we should file bugs with mzozilla 15:51:03 MC: The issue is about making smart decisions about the tools people use, in this case there are not comparable tools, it would be difficult to tell people not to use this tool 15:51:20 MC: But that is outside the mandate of this group 15:51:45 PC: I will take the bull by the horns, I am sending a message to the systems team 15:52:24 -Michael_Cooper 15:52:25 PC: I am going to copy the working group co-chairs, I usually get a response, I'll see what happens, the HCG would do what I am doing now 15:52:49 JS: this sounds like a reasonable course, we will report back to the task force 15:52:51 Current W3C Bugzilla version is 3.2.6, latest stable release at Mozilla is 3.6.3 15:53:03 JS: Jumping around abit 15:53:34 JSL: I was hoping to discuss keyboard access, but GR is sick this week, can anyone else talk about this? 15:54:44 JS: The other topic, followup on our recommendation and disposition in the working group, we need to keep this close to our agenda, we have sent 7-8 and 4-5 have been processed 15:55:54 JS: many of us of the opinion, that longdesc was not handled as well as it could have been, and the issue has gone outside of W3C space, I am not sure what the next steps for longdesc, but we need a coordinated effort and we need to gather additional informatino 15:57:03 JS: One of the ways is a formal objection it will be more complicated, the first level of conversation, gathering of information on use cases, there is a wiki now 15:57:47 JF: The question is why was the page was frozen, how do we stop the ping-pong 15:58:02 JS: I don't know if we can raise this in the call 15:58:50 JF: If more information is forth coming, can we designate an editor who will document the issues and the proposals 15:59:08 JS: There should be a mechansim in W3C space 15:59:19 rrsagent, daft minutes 15:59:19 I'm logging. I don't understand 'daft minutes', jongund. Try /msg RRSAgent help 15:59:27 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:59:27 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/02-html-a11y-minutes.html jongund 16:00:16 SF: laura collect information and someone else deleted the content from the page, now the page is frozen and new content cannot be added 16:00:31 PC: Do we know who is doing it? 16:00:51 SF: I know who it is and so do JS and JB 16:01:02 PC: I was not aware of the wiki war was going on 16:01:18 JS: I think we need to discuss a remedy 16:01:31 PC: Where is the page? 16:01:36 PC: I need to go 16:01:46 JS: We need to wrap up here 16:01:55 Late, but for Paul C: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/LongdescRetention 16:01:58 -[Microsoft] 16:02:45 -Eric_Carlson 16:02:51 -John_Foliot 16:03:01 -Janina 16:03:05 -Rich 16:03:07 -kliehm 16:03:09 -Michael_Cooper.a 16:03:11 -Marco_Ranon 16:03:40 -jongund 16:05:11 janina has left #html-a11y 16:05:58 -Mike.a 16:05:59 WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM has ended 16:06:01 Attendees were Eric_Carlson, Janina, John_Foliot, kliehm, paulc, Michael_Cooper, jongund, Rich, Steve_Faulkner, Mike, Marco_Ranon 16:06:13 eric_carlson has left #html-a11y 16:16:12 rrsagent, draft minutes 16:16:12 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/02-html-a11y-minutes.html kliehm 16:17:22 Zakim has left #html-a11y 16:17:53 rrsagent, draft minutes 16:17:54 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/02-html-a11y-minutes.html kliehm 16:20:33 rrsagent, please part 16:21:06 rrsagent, stop log 16:21:06 I'm logging. I don't understand 'stop log', kliehm. Try /msg RRSAgent help 16:21:34 rrsagent, publish minutes 16:21:34 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/02-html-a11y-minutes.html kliehm 16:23:22 rrsagent, set logs world-visible 16:24:49 s/Sounds like Hurricane Earl on the phone!// 16:25:09 s/Action item review/TOPIC: Action Item review/ 16:26:12 s/Bug sub team, did we formalize??/TOPIC: Subteam Reports/ 16:27:03 s/MC: We made decisions, but not formally/JS: Bug sub team, did we formalize? MC: We made decisions, but not formally/ 16:27:15 rrsagent, publish minutes 16:27:15 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/02-html-a11y-minutes.html kliehm 16:28:26 s/JS: TOPIC: Action Item Review/TOPIC: Action Item Review/ 16:28:29 rrsagent, publish minutes 16:28:29 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/02-html-a11y-minutes.html kliehm 16:30:03 s/JS: TOPIC: Action Item review/TOPIC: Actions Review/ 16:30:07 rrsagent, publish minutes 16:30:07 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/02-html-a11y-minutes.html kliehm 16:30:44 s/Bug sub team, did we formalize?/JS: Bug sub team, did we formalize?/ 16:31:08 s/JS: TOPIC: Subteam Reports/TOPIC: Subteam Reports/ 16:31:11 rrsagent, publish minutes 16:31:11 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/02-html-a11y-minutes.html kliehm 16:31:52 s/TOPIC: bugzilla accessibility/TOPIC: Bugzilla Accessibility/ 16:33:12 rrsagent, publish minutes 16:33:12 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/02-html-a11y-minutes.html kliehm 16:34:27 Laura has joined #html-a11y 16:35:05 s/Jumping around abit/TOPIC: Keyboard Access Requirements/ 16:35:07 rrsagent, publish minutes 16:35:07 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/02-html-a11y-minutes.html kliehm 16:35:45 s/JS: TOPIC: Keyboard Access Requirements/TOPIC: Keyboard Access Requirements/ 16:35:48 rrsagent, publish minutes 16:35:48 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/02-html-a11y-minutes.html kliehm 16:36:35 silvia has joined #html-a11y 16:38:00 s/JS: The other topic,/TOPIC: TF Recommendations Followup & Updates/ 16:38:03 rrsagent, publish minutes 16:38:03 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/02-html-a11y-minutes.html kliehm 16:39:02 s/TF Recommendations Followup & Updates followup on our recommendation and disposition in the working group, we need to keep this close to our agenda, we have sent 7-8 and 4-5 have been processed/TF Recommendations Followup & Updates/ 16:39:35 s/many of us of the opinion, that longdesc/ followup on our recommendation and disposition in the working group, we need to keep this close to our agenda, we have sent 7-8 and 4-5 have been processed many of us of the opinion, that longdesc/ 16:39:38 rrsagent, publish minutes 16:39:38 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/02-html-a11y-minutes.html kliehm 16:40:32 rrsagent, please part 16:40:32 I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2010/09/02-html-a11y-actions.rdf : 16:40:32 ACTION: paulc to Provide background keyboard support for drag and drop (3 weeks) [1] 16:40:32 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/09/02-html-a11y-irc#T15-42-56