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15:00:22 logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/09/02-html-a11y-irc
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15:00:33 zakim, this will be WAI_PFWG(HTML)
15:00:33 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, janina
15:00:54 zakim, this will be WAI_PFWG(HTML
15:00:54 ok, janina, I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM already started
15:00:57 Stevef has joined #html-a11y
15:01:01 zakim, call janina
15:01:01 ok, janina; the call is being made
15:01:02 +Janina
15:01:09 Sounds like Hurricane Earl on the phone!
15:01:52 JF has joined #html-a11y
15:02:16 Meeting: HTML-A11Y telecon
15:02:16 Chair: Janina_Sajka
15:02:16 agenda: this
15:02:16 agenda+ Identify Scribe
15:02:16 agenda+ Actions Review
15:02:17 agenda+ Subteam Reports: Canvas; ARIA Mappings; Media; Bug Triage
15:02:19 agenda+ Media Accessibility User Requirements
15:02:21 agenda+ TF Recommendations Followup & Updates
15:02:23 agenda+ Keyboard Access Requirements
15:02:25 agenda+ Drag & Drop Discussion
15:02:27 agenda+ W3C Bugzilla Accessibility
15:02:29 agenda+ next meetings, confirm date/time, choose scribe
15:02:31 agenda+ be done
15:02:43 zakim, who's here?
15:02:44 On the phone I see Eric_Carlson, ??P2, ??P18, [Microsoft], Janina
15:02:49 On IRC I see JF, Stevef, jongund, RRSAgent, Zakim, kliehm, paulc, eric_carlson, Mike^sento, MichaelC, davidb, janina, trackbot
15:02:54 +John_Foliot
15:04:09 zakim, ??P2
15:04:22 +kliehm
15:04:34 zakim, [Microsoft] has paulc
15:04:37 I don't understand '??P2', jongund
15:04:55 +paulc; got it
15:05:01 +Michael_Cooper
15:05:04 zakim, ??P18 is jongund
15:05:21 +jongund; got it
15:05:34 richardschwerdtfe has joined #html-a11y
15:05:40 Zakim, call Mike
15:05:47 zakim, who's here?
15:05:48 ok, Mike^sento; the call is being made
15:05:50 +Mike
15:05:58 zakim, ??P2 is Steve_Faulkner
15:06:03 On the phone I see Eric_Carlson, ??P2, jongund, [Microsoft], Janina, John_Foliot, kliehm (muted), Michael_Cooper, Mike (muted)
15:06:07 Zakim, Mike is me
15:06:08 [Microsoft] has paulc
15:06:10 +Rich
15:06:12 +Steve_Faulkner; got it
15:06:16 On IRC I see richardschwerdtfe, JF, Stevef, jongund, RRSAgent, Zakim, kliehm, paulc, eric_carlson, Mike, MichaelC, davidb, janina, trackbot
15:06:19 zakim, ??p2 is Steve_Faulkner
15:06:21 +Mike; got it
15:06:29 I already had ??P2 as Steve_Faulkner, janina
15:06:50 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List
15:07:15 PaulC declines scribe opporunity since I am chairing the Weekly WG call today and have to leave early.
15:09:10 JS: Action item review
15:09:26 zakim, scribe is jongund
15:09:26 sorry, jongund, I do not recognize a party named 'scribe'
15:09:46 scribe: jongund
15:09:46 scribe: jongund
15:09:53 MS: Action 47 on SF to file a bug on making autocomplete consistent with ARIA
15:09:59 SF: Will do
15:10:07 MS: No status?
15:10:08 +Marco_Ranon
15:10:11 SF: No
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15:10:57 JS: Bug sub team, did we formalize??
15:11:14 MC: We made decisions, but not formally
15:11:43 JS: We talked about responsibilities last week, and the sub teams could put up proposals
15:11:52 JS: Comment on sub teams?
15:12:07 JS: Any objections of giving them sub team status?
15:12:20 MC: We have had 3 meetings, one as sub team
15:12:25 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Bug_Triage
15:12:26 -> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Bug_Triage Bug Triage wiki page
15:12:32 MC: I setup a wiki page for bug triage
15:12:42 Could the scribe go on mute? The typing is quite distracting.
15:12:57 MC: We have taken all the items declared as bugs
15:13:06 MC: We are meeting on Tuesdays
15:13:15 JS: Anyone can participate
15:13:29 JS: Are you sending out agendas?
15:13:52 -> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?keywords=a11ytf&bug_status=RESOLVED&resolution=NEEDSINFO&resolution=INVALID&resolution=WONTFIX Bugs with high priority
15:13:58 MC: No, but we have not formally set a chair, our agenda is to go through bugs
15:14:29 JS: Loosing your audio MC
15:14:51 MC: I am on the noisy microphone
15:15:18 MC: I pasted in the bugzilla query we are going through
15:15:37 RS: Is this just the HTML specs or does it include canvas
15:15:52 MC: We are using the Accessibility task force key words
15:16:31 MC: Two weeks ago we talked about the ALT text bugs, they were not considered a priority since they were in good hands, canvas the same way
15:16:39 RS: I am concerned about canvas
15:16:50 The key word is #a11yTF, originally triaging #a11y bugs
15:17:06 MC: We would probably send canvas issue to you (RS)
15:17:26 JS: The are many of these meetings going on
15:18:10 MC: Now that we are empowered to make decisions, more people may attend
15:18:41 JS: Thank you MC, I think the team should nominate there own lead
15:18:54 JS: JF media update, or I can
15:19:20 JF: User requirements document, to the wider working group on the next call
15:19:33 JF: It is still a fluid living document
15:20:02 JF: We are trying to map user requirements with different technologies we are talking about, enormous question
15:20:37 JF: We are just trying to identify technologies, there is active working being done, the timelines are very aggresive
15:20:50 JF: There will be a table by this weekend
15:20:57 JS: Questions or discussions?
15:21:11 JS: JF ARIA Mapping update?
15:21:26 JF: There have been a slew of bugs
15:21:39 JF: We are waiting for the HTML% editor to respond
15:21:48 -Michael_Cooper
15:21:59 +Michael_Cooper
15:22:03 ... coming off mute
15:22:04 JF: We were lead to believe where we are going with this today, nothing so far
15:22:18 JF: The over arching bug is #1066
15:22:37 s/#1066/#10066/
15:22:48 PC: I think you have the description exactly correct, I have not seen it either
15:23:11 PC: We were suppose to get extensibility proposal, that is not here yet
15:23:41 PC: There is a W3C survey on the licensing of HTML5, so this maybe keeping people pretty busy, stay tuned
15:24:06 SF: We were lead to believe the bugs would be responded to by this date
15:24:31 PC: I did too, if he doesn't deliver the report or come, I will take it off line
15:24:57 SF: we have been working hard all week, and now I feel we are swinging in the wind
15:25:12 JS: I am not what PC can say
15:25:36 SF: I feel some frustration, and now I am not sure where we are going
15:26:01 PC: I am opening a private chat with sam
15:26:23 SF: It is hard to have faith in the process when we do something and then...
15:26:52 JS: SF you have good points and it is in the minutes
15:27:03 JS: An on going area of work
15:27:10 JS: Canvus??
15:27:35 RS: What has happened with that I submitted the Opera guys, I have not heard for 3 weeks
15:27:52 s/Canvus??/Canvas/
15:28:04 RS: I would like to have this tied to drawing calls, would help authors
15:28:26 RS: We have concerns about implementation
15:28:41 RS: We have concerns from developers about implementation
15:29:10 RS: We tried CMN approach, he wants it just his way, this a late edition
15:29:21 RS: SF what do you think?
15:29:59 SF: I am not sure how much it will be to create image maps over canvas, it seems doable
15:30:43 RS: You need to rewrtie all the AREA implementations, new methods and properties, clickable regions, it will be alot of work, CMN has raised this
15:31:14 SF: The addition of usemap which is similar, but limited, then there is full blown, more capabilities
15:31:34 s/rewrtie/rewrite/
15:31:46 s/similar/simplier/
15:32:05 RS: We do not seem to be getting alot of progress
15:32:25 JS: We should try to clear up where we are going
15:33:07 JS: The caret drawing seems to be a preferred implementation, but we are sure if someone will do it, do not have enough spec?
15:33:19 RS: Ian wanted it one minute and then not the next minute
15:33:58 RS: I have a limited amount of time, so I need to know if we are going the caret API route
15:34:30 JS: I don't know if that will work, how to we unblock this, we have some missunderstandings
15:35:06 RS: Ian said write the defect and we will do it, but then he said he would not do, its frustrated with just going through Ian
15:35:14 RS: I am not sure what to do
15:35:44 JS: I don't if I have an answer for this, but will try to get something at next coordination call
15:35:55 RS: PC what is the next step?
15:36:26 PC: JS and the cohairs will need to take this off line, I understand you concerns, one side
15:36:55 JS: PC can help, but I want it communicated well, I am not looking for a solution today, but we need some
15:37:14 JF: We need an improvement on what is currently there in canvas
15:37:29 JF: If we have some improvement, then that might ....
15:37:59 s/JF/SteveF
15:38:11 JS: I am status qo for over a year, we put up proposals, I would like to see something on the current proposals
15:39:06 JS: I don't question that there needs to be accessibility for canvas, the process has been a discussion topic, no one is happy right now
15:39:50 JS: This goes all he way to the top in W3C management, we need to improve the process, good proposals are not going away, we need to figure out how to get unstuck
15:40:37 RS: At least for me If the chairs can get ARIA implementation in HTML5
15:40:45 PC: That sounds like a good idea to me
15:41:13 PC: It may not move as fast as you want, but at least you have comitter on the other side
15:41:30 RS: PC have you heard about the keyboard drag and drop from MS?
15:41:47 PC: it is in my inbox, it is pending
15:42:38 Paul to provide background info on keyboard drag and drop from Microsoft.
15:42:56 ACTION paulc: Provide background keyboard support for drag and drop (3 weeks)
15:42:56 Created ACTION-57 - Provide background keyboard support for drag and drop (3 weeks) [on Paul Cotton - due 2010-09-09].
15:43:33 JS: Mike Smith are you also working on this?
15:43:38 JS: Are you there?
15:43:43 JS: We lost mike
15:44:03 JS: Since we are out of order, PC you asked about Bugzilla
15:44:10 -Steve_Faulkner
15:44:34 TOPIC: bugzilla accessibility
15:44:38 PC: Laura has filed a bug about the decision policy, making bugzilla more accessible
15:45:01 PC: Laura and JS providing me with pointers I could not find
15:45:29 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jul/0146.html
15:45:31 PC: We thought maybe upgrading would improve accessibility, but there are still outstanding issues
15:46:00 PC: I don't think my co-chairs will agree that issue is a blocker
15:46:17 PC: We need to take this to the W3C to see if they can come up with a solution
15:46:33 RS: Isn't this a mozilla project??
15:46:58 JS: It doesn't make sense to make this an HTML5 issue, it is a worthy topic
15:47:32 JS: The mozilla people will want us to use the latest version, before we can suggest accessibility enhancements
15:47:59 JS: We should log the issue and we need to take it somewhere else
15:48:28 Isn't one option to send a message to the Systems team asking them to look into this?
15:48:42 JS: We need a path to improve accessibility, but where should this issue go, I don't think ou group should own it
15:49:04 +Michael_Cooper.a
15:49:07 RS: Who is responsible for W3C tools?
15:49:22 JS: I was hoping MC would be able to tell us?
15:50:12 (wondering if we will get back to Item #4: TF Recommendations Followup & Updates)
15:50:15 MC: We can't solve the problem of bugzilla accessibility, it is a W3C wide issue, I can take it to Hyper text, they may want other, we should file bugs with mzozilla
15:51:03 MC: The issue is about making smart decisions about the tools people use, in this case there are not comparable tools, it would be difficult to tell people not to use this tool
15:51:20 MC: But that is outside the mandate of this group
15:51:45 PC: I will take the bull by the horns, I am sending a message to the systems team
15:52:24 -Michael_Cooper
15:52:25 PC: I am going to copy the working group co-chairs, I usually get a response, I'll see what happens, the HCG would do what I am doing now
15:52:49 JS: this sounds like a reasonable course, we will report back to the task force
15:52:51 Current W3C Bugzilla version is 3.2.6, latest stable release at Mozilla is 3.6.3
15:53:03 JS: Jumping around abit
15:53:34 JSL: I was hoping to discuss keyboard access, but GR is sick this week, can anyone else talk about this?
15:54:44 JS: The other topic, followup on our recommendation and disposition in the working group, we need to keep this close to our agenda, we have sent 7-8 and 4-5 have been processed
15:55:54 JS: many of us of the opinion, that longdesc was not handled as well as it could have been, and the issue has gone outside of W3C space, I am not sure what the next steps for longdesc, but we need a coordinated effort and we need to gather additional informatino
15:57:03 JS: One of the ways is a formal objection it will be more complicated, the first level of conversation, gathering of information on use cases, there is a wiki now
15:57:47 JF: The question is why was the page was frozen, how do we stop the ping-pong
15:58:02 JS: I don't know if we can raise this in the call
15:58:50 JF: If more information is forth coming, can we designate an editor who will document the issues and the proposals
15:59:08 JS: There should be a mechansim in W3C space
15:59:19 rrsagent, daft minutes
15:59:19 I'm logging. I don't understand 'daft minutes', jongund. Try /msg RRSAgent help
15:59:27 rrsagent, draft minutes
15:59:27 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/02-html-a11y-minutes.html jongund
16:00:16 SF: laura collect information and someone else deleted the content from the page, now the page is frozen and new content cannot be added
16:00:31 PC: Do we know who is doing it?
16:00:51 SF: I know who it is and so do JS and JB
16:01:02 PC: I was not aware of the wiki war was going on
16:01:18 JS: I think we need to discuss a remedy
16:01:31 PC: Where is the page?
16:01:36 PC: I need to go
16:01:46 JS: We need to wrap up here
16:01:55 Late, but for Paul C: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/LongdescRetention
16:01:58 -[Microsoft]
16:02:45 -Eric_Carlson
16:02:51 -John_Foliot
16:03:01 -Janina
16:03:05 -Rich
16:03:07 -kliehm
16:03:09 -Michael_Cooper.a
16:03:11 -Marco_Ranon
16:03:40 -jongund
16:05:11 janina has left #html-a11y
16:05:58 -Mike.a
16:05:59 WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM has ended
16:06:01 Attendees were Eric_Carlson, Janina, John_Foliot, kliehm, paulc, Michael_Cooper, jongund, Rich, Steve_Faulkner, Mike, Marco_Ranon
16:06:13 eric_carlson has left #html-a11y
16:16:12 rrsagent, draft minutes
16:16:12 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/02-html-a11y-minutes.html kliehm
16:17:22 Zakim has left #html-a11y
16:17:53 rrsagent, draft minutes
16:17:54 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/02-html-a11y-minutes.html kliehm
16:20:33 rrsagent, please part
16:21:06 rrsagent, stop log
16:21:06 I'm logging. I don't understand 'stop log', kliehm. Try /msg RRSAgent help
16:21:34 rrsagent, publish minutes
16:21:34 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/02-html-a11y-minutes.html kliehm
16:23:22 rrsagent, set logs world-visible
16:24:49 s/Sounds like Hurricane Earl on the phone!//
16:25:09 s/Action item review/TOPIC: Action Item review/
16:26:12 s/Bug sub team, did we formalize??/TOPIC: Subteam Reports/
16:27:03 s/MC: We made decisions, but not formally/JS: Bug sub team, did we formalize? MC: We made decisions, but not formally/
16:27:15 rrsagent, publish minutes
16:27:15 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/02-html-a11y-minutes.html kliehm
16:28:26 s/JS: TOPIC: Action Item Review/TOPIC: Action Item Review/
16:28:29 rrsagent, publish minutes
16:28:29 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/02-html-a11y-minutes.html kliehm
16:30:03 s/JS: TOPIC: Action Item review/TOPIC: Actions Review/
16:30:07