IRC log of html-a11y on 2010-09-01

Timestamps are in UTC.

22:01:21 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
22:01:21 [RRSAgent]
logging to
22:01:47 [eric_carlson]
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22:01:54 [janina]
zakim, this will be WAI_PFWG(A11Y)
22:01:54 [Zakim]
ok, janina, I see WAI_PFWG(A11Y)6:00PM already started
22:02:00 [janina]
zakim, call janina
22:02:00 [Zakim]
ok, janina; the call is being made
22:02:02 [Zakim]
22:02:06 [mkobayas]
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22:02:07 [Zakim]
22:02:34 [janina]
Meeting: HTML-A11Y telecon
22:02:34 [janina]
Chair: Janina_Sajka
22:02:34 [janina]
agenda: this
22:02:34 [janina]
agenda+ Identify Scribe
22:02:34 [janina]
agenda+ Actions Review
22:02:35 [janina]
agenda+ User Requirements: Status & Intro at HTML-WG
22:02:37 [janina]
agenda+ Proof of Concept Demos
22:02:39 [janina]
agenda+ Technical Requirements Prioritizations and Dependencies
22:02:41 [janina]
agenda+ Candidate Technologies: WebSRT; WMML; TTML; SMIL3; Etc.
22:02:43 [janina]
agenda+ next meeting
22:02:45 [janina]
agenda+ be done
22:02:47 [janina]
22:02:51 [janina]
zakim, who's here?
22:02:51 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Sean_Hayes, John_Foliot, Judy, Janina, Eric_Carlson
22:02:52 [Zakim]
On IRC I see mkobayas, eric_carlson, RRSAgent, Zakim, janina, JF, silvia, MikeSmith, trackbot
22:03:17 [JF]
JF will scribe today
22:03:37 [janina]
scribe: jf
22:03:49 [janina]
scribe: John_Foliot
22:03:54 [janina]
zakim, agenda?
22:03:54 [Zakim]
I see 8 items remaining on the agenda:
22:03:56 [Zakim]
1. Identify Scribe [from janina]
22:03:58 [Zakim]
2. Actions Review [from janina]
22:04:00 [Zakim]
3. User Requirements: Status & Intro at HTML-WG [from janina]
22:04:03 [Zakim]
4. Proof of Concept Demos [from janina]
22:04:05 [Zakim]
5. Technical Requirements Prioritizations and Dependencies [from janina]
22:04:07 [Zakim]
6. Candidate Technologies: WebSRT; WMML; TTML; SMIL3; Etc. [from janina]
22:04:09 [Zakim]
7. next meeting [from janina]
22:04:09 [Zakim]
8. be done [from janina]
22:05:10 [janina]
zakim, take up item 1
22:05:11 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Identify Scribe" taken up [from janina]
22:05:19 [janina]
zakim, close item 1
22:05:19 [Zakim]
agendum 1, Identify Scribe, closed
22:05:20 [Zakim]
I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
22:05:21 [Zakim]
2. Actions Review [from janina]
22:05:28 [janina]
zakim, next item
22:05:28 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Actions Review" taken up [from janina]
22:06:29 [JF]
Action 52
22:06:29 [trackbot]
Sorry, bad ACTION syntax
22:06:59 [JF] echnical_Requirements_Prioritizations_and_Dependencies
22:07:40 [Zakim]
22:07:50 [silvia]
zakim, mute me
22:07:50 [Zakim]
silvia should now be muted
22:08:06 [silvia]
zakim, unmute me
22:08:06 [Zakim]
silvia should no longer be muted
22:08:23 [JF]
Missed action deadline, but working actively
22:08:26 [silvia]
zakim, mute me
22:08:26 [Zakim]
silvia should now be muted
22:08:30 [davidb]
davidb has joined #html-a11y
22:08:41 [JF]
22:09:10 [JF]
PLH has taken on the issue of ensuring we have a good hosting location, and that all permissions are in order
22:09:27 [JF]
Judy will follow up on confirmations and will advise
22:10:01 [JF]
zakim, next item
22:10:01 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "User Requirements: Status & Intro at HTML-WG" taken up [from janina]
22:10:33 [JF]
JS - proud and exicted after last weeks call - final edits are all in place
22:11:23 [JF]
Will investigate if this should be published as a note at W3C - down the road
22:12:04 [JF]
Judy - wants to cll out that Chairs have welcomed Janina to do a Q & A on tomorrow's call
22:12:26 [JF]
suggest that members of the sub-team join in on that call
22:12:53 [JF]
Re: Section 1 - Judy did do several re-arrangings of that sections - were provisional
22:13:14 [JF]
still concerned abotu what is in that section: provisio in place
22:13:26 [JF]
believes that Section 1 is still not properly organized
22:15:04 [JF]
Question: who put in the Section 1 - autism section into the wiki? Hope to re-balance it somewhat
22:15:28 [JF]
but doesn't want to dilute anything and cause offence
22:15:44 [JF]
Sean- it was provided by a colleague
22:16:07 [JF]
Judy - it is great material, but will re-work it slightly to fit the larger overal doc
22:16:31 [JF]
JS - 1 quasi-substantive change after an exchange with Geoff
22:16:50 [JF]
make a cleaner distincition between extended descrbed video and extended captioning
22:17:48 [JF]
'extended' might cause confusion, so suggesting extended descriptive description, and 'enhanced' captioing (i.e could contain HTML, etc.)
22:18:20 [silvia]
zakim, unmute me
22:18:20 [Zakim]
silvia should no longer be muted
22:18:56 [JF]
confusion seems to be resolved here
22:18:58 [silvia]
zakim, mute me
22:18:58 [Zakim]
silvia should now be muted
22:19:20 [JF]
JS HTML weekly teleconference is Noon Bostom time tomorrow
22:19:31 [JF]
irc channel = html-wg
22:19:50 [JF]
JS intends to do a walk through on the doc at that call
22:20:03 [JF]
focus on kinds of alternatives and requirements
22:20:52 [JF]
hope to get more cooperation from the larger technical group - to date there has been no response from anyone on the HTML WG mailing list
22:21:19 [JF]
need to get greater involvement in developing the technical solutions
22:21:25 [JF]
zakim, next item
22:21:25 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Proof of Concept Demos" taken up [from janina]
22:21:51 [JF]
JS: not much to say at this point
22:21:51 [silvia]
zakim, unmute me
22:21:51 [Zakim]
silvia should no longer be muted
22:22:17 [JF]
Q: should we reference this in the user Reqs document?
22:22:38 [JF]
Silvia: prefer if we keep this seperate, so that we could build up more demo examples
22:22:47 [JF]
link to but keep seperate
22:23:20 [JF]
Judy: thought - when WCAG2 was in CR, needed to provide 2 implementations of every requirement
22:23:24 [janina]
22:23:41 [JF]
some of the examples were not sure to remain stable, but many are
22:23:58 [JF]
so perhaps accessible media examples could be rolled in as well
22:24:20 [JF]
as demonstrations of what is expected/needed, not neccessarily how it is to be done in HTML5
22:25:00 [silvia]
zakim, mute me
22:25:00 [Zakim]
silvia should now be muted
22:25:16 [JF]
JS: Eric, what is/was your question/ issue on what he saw?
22:25:44 [JF]
ERic: was able to view one of the movies (and transcoded to Ogg and MP4)
22:26:03 [JF]
but did not have a copy of RealPlayer to view the second video
22:26:33 [silvia]
zakim, unmute me
22:26:33 [Zakim]
silvia should no longer be muted
22:26:46 [JF]
Ogg and/or MP4 more 'viewable' today
22:27:22 [JF]
demo is so lod that existing software to play back may no longer exist
22:28:03 [JF]
Janina will follow up to see if we can do something about the second demo and view-ability
22:28:11 [JF]
zakim, next item
22:28:11 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "Technical Requirements Prioritizations and Dependencies" taken up [from janina]
22:28:17 [silvia]
zakim, mute me
22:28:17 [Zakim]
silvia should now be muted
22:28:30 [JF]
22:32:31 [janina]
scribe: janina
22:33:01 [janina]
jf is walking through his first cut, looking at controls access as an example, what is must, what is should, what is may ...
22:33:21 [janina]
scribe: jf
22:33:30 [JF]
Judy: interested in approach
22:33:48 [JF]
good time to ensure that this is in fact the right approach
22:35:07 [JF]
impression was that when we talked about this that rather than prioritize all the user reqs, rather to prioritize what would be technically challenging
22:35:13 [janina]
22:35:28 [JF]
is there a narrower task that would be useful to implementors, that could be dealt with more quickly?
22:36:13 [JF]
Judy: lot of pressure time-wise to deliver what we can ASAP
22:36:23 [silvia]
zakim, unmute me
22:36:23 [Zakim]
silvia should no longer be muted
22:36:52 [JF]
Judy: can we identify the technical challenges alone?
22:37:24 [JF]
Silvia: agrees with Judy that all we need is a table with the user-reqs and then keep them sorted in different areas
22:38:32 [JF]
Need to focus on a smaller view
22:40:00 [janina]
22:41:00 [JF]
Sean: we need to go through the text (as it has been evolving) and pull it out as bullet points
22:41:17 [JF]
i.e to ensure that all the procse is covered in bullet points
22:41:54 [JF]
JS: is there anything in the prose that cannot be checked off in the bullet points?
22:43:15 [JF]
Eric: this is a difficult issue - if we don't provide a prioritized list to the browser vendors then they will choose what they want
22:43:30 [JF]
if it's difficult for hte experts, it will be even harder for the non-experts
22:43:55 [JF]
Judy: accepts that this is an issue
22:44:13 [JF]
but we don't have sufficient represntation of all expert communities
22:44:48 [silvia]
I have moved the table to
22:44:58 [JF]
if there is some way of finding a compromise that is helpful to browser implementors?
22:45:26 [JF]
Sean: agrees with Eric that a prioritization is required
22:45:52 [JF]
what can be reasonably implemented in the next few months?
22:46:18 [JF]
it's about implementation priorities
22:46:30 [JF]
step 1 get the list, then compare what has already been done?
22:48:36 [JF]
Eric: what is most important that we all agree on what needs to be worked on - key is interoperability
22:49:03 [JF]
JS: agrees, what can we get into the browsers now?
22:49:35 [JF]
Silvia agrees that we need to get to a state where browsers are in synch
22:50:38 [JF]
pages need a disclaimer that this is NOT for implementaion, but a work in progress
22:52:09 [JF]
JS: would like to be sure that we note that the specification must support all of our user requirements
22:52:16 [JF]
including the harder to implement features
22:52:20 [JF]
we cannot put that off
22:53:06 [JF]
Judy: was discussing earlier on how to take more advantage of process culture in HTML WG
22:53:21 [JF]
wqe need to generate a bug-list against the specs for any gaps or mis-matches
22:53:37 [JF]
thus having the technical challenges identified will assist in that
22:54:07 [JF]
so generating a list of bugs of what we need as quickly as possible would be useful
22:54:57 [JF]
JS: suspects that this is true, but not sure if this is what we are talking about here
22:55:13 [silvia]
zakim, mute me
22:55:13 [Zakim]
silvia should now be muted
22:56:08 [JF]
Judy: is hoping that we could have a bug list in 2-3 weeks time (maximum)
22:56:31 [JF]
JS: this relates to timing format discussion
22:57:06 [JF]
Judy: thought we agreed not to 'choose' a time-format, but rather than offer informed opinion
22:58:24 [JF]
JS: hopes we don't get forced into making a decision
22:59:39 [silvia]
zakim, unmute me
22:59:39 [Zakim]
silvia should no longer be muted
23:01:05 [JF]
Silvia: suggest to copy over the the bullet list from the user requirements
23:01:41 [JF]
what is here is what we want, but this is not a fast nor easy process
23:01:54 [JF]
are the bullet points complete?
23:02:45 [Zakim]
23:02:48 [JF]
JS: some bullet points might show up more than once
23:03:00 [JF]
Silvia: agreed, but we need to start simple
23:03:05 [Zakim]
23:11:00 [JF]
JS: we have a plan...
23:11:32 [JF]
(not completely captured in minutes, but Silvia will establish some early examples, and JF will then work to flesh out
23:11:43 [JF]
Sean: TTML
23:11:49 [JF]
zakim, next item
23:11:49 [Zakim]
agendum 6. "Candidate Technologies: WebSRT; WMML; TTML; SMIL3; Etc." taken up [from janina]
23:12:22 [JF]
Sean: waiting on the table, but wanted to check to make sure that there is a mapping in HTML5 to TTMl
23:12:23 [silvia]
zakim, mute me
23:12:23 [Zakim]
silvia should now be muted
23:12:29 [davidb]
davidb has joined #html-a11y
23:12:43 [JF]
Sean has put together a mapping on how to get from TTML to HTML5
23:12:49 [JF]
there is a basic structure
23:12:53 [JF]
first grab all the styles
23:13:08 [JF]
TTML really only does inline styles
23:13:19 [JF]
but there is a mechanism to group it all together
23:13:33 [JF]
this is being explained
23:13:39 [JF]
next is the time cue mechansim
23:13:50 [JF]
so an examination of how to do that
23:14:09 [JF]
once you have those 2 things, then take them and construct what Ian is calling an HTML cue object
23:14:20 [JF]
there is a pretty straightforward mapping
23:14:36 [JF]
there is an HTML abstract of cue
23:14:55 [JF]
it seems that it is pretty much a one-toone mapping
23:15:56 [JF]
the XML nature is actually a benefit here
23:16:20 [JF]
Ian has a concept of rendering rules, and Sean has thought about how that would work
23:16:39 [JF]
if you take the cue ( a rectangular region)
23:16:47 [JF]
it can then be styled
23:16:54 [JF]
and/or rendered elsewhere
23:20:51 [silvia]
zakim, unmute me
23:20:51 [Zakim]
silvia should no longer be muted
23:23:27 [JF]
Link for Sean (FYI)
23:24:25 [JF]
Silvia: wants to point out that pieces of SMIL that are being used today may not be re-usable for video
23:24:53 [JF]
Judy: seems we might be able to steer the discussion towards the capabilities of an established standard
23:25:07 [JF]
has a powerful motivator
23:25:30 [JF]
zakim, next item
23:25:30 [Zakim]
agendum 7. "next meeting" taken up [from janina]
23:25:53 [silvia]
zakim, mute me
23:25:53 [Zakim]
silvia should now be muted
23:25:53 [JF]
JS: any further issues/questions?
23:26:23 [JF]
Judy: to confirm, Silvia is 'priming the pump' for the prioritized tech challenges document
23:26:38 [JF]
then JF will take it on to continue theat work
23:26:59 [JF]
is that enough for now?
23:27:25 [JF]
Judy: just want to ensure that we keep moving - are there any other additional tasks for this week?
23:28:30 [silvia]
zakim, unmute me
23:28:30 [Zakim]
silvia should no longer be muted
23:30:26 [Zakim]
23:30:58 [silvia]
23:32:14 [Zakim]
23:33:53 [JF]
JS: closing up meeting
23:35:09 [Zakim]
23:35:12 [Zakim]
23:35:26 [JF]
zakim, bye
23:35:26 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were Sean_Hayes, John_Foliot, Judy, Janina, Eric_Carlson, silvia
23:35:26 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #html-a11y
23:35:49 [Judy]
Judy has joined #html-a11y
23:35:50 [JF]
rrsagent, make log public
23:36:03 [JF]
rrsagent, make minutes
23:36:03 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate JF