IRC log of core on 2010-08-25

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:34:26 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #core
16:34:26 [RRSAgent]
logging to
16:34:50 [Zakim]
16:35:05 [r12a]
zakim, +7 is Aharon
16:35:05 [Zakim]
+Aharon; got it
16:35:08 [Aharon]
zakim, mute me
16:35:08 [Zakim]
Aharon should now be muted
16:35:17 [r12a]
zakim, ??P is Norbert
16:35:17 [Zakim]
+Norbert; got it
16:35:24 [r12a]
zakim, who's here ?
16:35:24 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Richard, Aharon (muted), Norbert, David
16:35:25 [Zakim]
On IRC I see RRSAgent, fsasaki, David, Norbert, Zakim, Aharon, r12a, kennyluck, fantasai
16:35:38 [r12a]
zakim, where's Addison ?
16:35:38 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, r12a.
16:36:15 [Zakim]
16:36:48 [Aharon]
zakim, unmute me
16:36:48 [Zakim]
Aharon should no longer be muted
16:38:05 [Zakim]
+ +1.408.790.aabb
16:38:09 [Aharon]
zakim, mute me
16:38:09 [Zakim]
Aharon should now be muted
16:39:07 [David]
zakim, mute me
16:39:07 [Zakim]
David should now be muted
16:39:20 [r12a]
zakim, who's here ?
16:39:20 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Richard, Aharon (muted), Norbert, David (muted), Felix (muted), Addison
16:39:23 [Zakim]
On IRC I see RRSAgent, fsasaki, David, Norbert, Zakim, Aharon, r12a, kennyluck, fantasai
16:39:54 [r12a]
meeting: i18n telecon
16:40:01 [r12a]
chair: Addison
16:49:55 [aphillip]
aphillip has joined #core
16:50:42 [aphillip]
richard: created two new lists
16:50:50 [aphillip]
... public-i18n-cjk
16:50:57 [aphillip]
... and public-i18n-indic
16:51:13 [aphillip]
... later is so that India office can create Indic document similar to JLReq
16:51:35 [aphillip]
norbert: is that much different from thai, burmese and other indic derived scripts
16:52:49 [aphillip]
16:53:40 [aphillip]
Topic: contact formats convergence
16:53:41 [aphillip]
16:53:57 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate aphillip
16:54:25 [aphillip]
haven't looked at document in detail yet
16:54:33 [aphillip]
seen some attributes like given name
16:54:45 [aphillip]
might need transliteration
16:55:05 [aphillip]
might need changes to things like street address
16:55:11 [aphillip]
needs a thorough review
16:55:43 [aphillip]
should be coordinated with our contacts in ietf
16:55:51 [aphillip]
how do we proceed here?
16:56:12 [aphillip]
when should we do a review?
16:57:27 [aphillip]
(above are Felix's intro)
16:57:28 [aphillip]
16:57:41 [aphillip]
norbert: everyone goes back RFC 2426 vCard
16:59:49 [aphillip]
addison: maybe ask wg when to review contacts api?
17:00:01 [fsasaki]
17:00:12 [David]
17:00:36 [aphillip]
ACTION: addison: ask device api WG when it would be appropriate to revew contacts API document
17:02:31 [Aharon]
zakim, unmute me
17:02:31 [Zakim]
Aharon should no longer be muted
17:03:03 [aphillip]
aharon: have some experience with language dependent addresses
17:03:25 [aphillip]
... quite often want to specify "here is the name of this town in (insert arbitrary language list)"
17:03:40 [aphillip]
... street name might want transliterated or translated
17:04:02 [aphillip]
... want to format according to user's language preference
17:04:07 [aphillip]
... turns out to be hard
17:04:27 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate aphillip
17:04:45 [aphillip]
... might have name of town in Russian but street only in English, for example
17:04:48 [aphillip]
... so you get a mix
17:04:55 [aphillip]
... and not useful as mailing address
17:05:12 [aphillip]
RRSAgent, set logs world-visible
17:05:20 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate aphillip
17:05:53 [aphillip]
RRSAgent, set logs world-visible
17:06:12 [aphillip]
Meeting: Internationalization Core Teleconference
17:07:18 [aphillip]
richard: might present choices to the user
17:07:57 [aphillip]
aharon: want to choose most useful representation (for example)
17:08:12 [aphillip]
... most useful language may not be user's or local language
17:08:35 [aphillip]
... for example, Russian user getting address in Israel probably would end up wanting Hebrew transliterated to Latin script
17:08:55 [aphillip]
... will see if I can share some documents
17:09:15 [aphillip]
Topic: Bidi topics (per paragraph auto-direction, etc)
17:10:13 [aphillip]
aharon: basically, at f2f meeting, one participant though there was a gap
17:10:53 [aphillip]
... that Unicode Bidi Algorithm, when not given explicit base direction, will choose direction based on first strong character for each paragraph
17:11:01 [aphillip]
... and there are editors that implement this functionality
17:11:04 [aphillip]
... such as gEdit
17:11:14 [aphillip]
... and some on Mac usw.
17:11:25 [aphillip]
... lets you write plain text
17:11:51 [aphillip]
... and the directionality works okay (such as having a note in Hebrew followed by address in London) and it all works
17:11:59 [aphillip]
... but this is absent in HTML and in HTML5
17:12:14 [aphillip]
... so add capability?
17:12:20 [aphillip]
... simplest case is <textarea>
17:12:35 [aphillip]
... and just have browser display each graf according to its own directionality
17:12:41 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate aphillip
17:13:06 [aphillip]
aharon: resulting text could display in e.g. <pre>
17:13:22 [aphillip]
aharon: there is something to this
17:13:28 [aphillip]
... started playing around with solutions
17:13:42 [aphillip]
... what was worked out at f2f was very ambitioush
17:13:58 [aphillip]
... besides affecting textarea, you could put attribute dir=uba on any element
17:14:06 [aphillip]
... and have layout thereby affected
17:14:16 [aphillip]
... but at same time play nicely with CSS direction
17:14:41 [aphillip]
... but subsquent paras might have different direction from first
17:18:21 [aphillip]
aharon: speced and then went home tired ;-)
17:18:30 [aphillip]
... I developed some doubts
17:18:44 [aphillip]
... reported on proceedings
17:18:51 [aphillip]
... to standards body in israel
17:19:07 [aphillip]
... and some folks said: you went way overboard and use case not that compelling
17:19:25 [aphillip]
... and thus thought my doubts might be justified
17:19:32 [aphillip]
... and sent note to others at f2f
17:20:08 [aphillip]
... and responses were that good reasons for doubts but need to publish results as-is for discussion
17:20:10 [aphillip]
... did so
17:20:29 [aphillip]
... and now published my doubts
17:20:43 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate aphillip
17:21:18 [aphillip]
aharon: one person: altough understand doubts, there is still a use case
17:21:34 [aphillip]
... and just use textarea and not some fancy rich text edit control
17:21:42 [aphillip]
... and just easy way to display
17:22:36 [aphillip]
addison: just want to reflect text back to user
17:22:46 [aphillip]
... pretty common use case?
17:23:28 [aphillip]
aharon: made compromise suggestion
17:23:51 [aphillip]
... allow uba only on <textarea> and something similar to text area but not an input
17:26:06 [aphillip]
addison: could use 'auto' and be similar?
17:26:20 [aphillip]
aharon: the detection algorithm is different
17:26:43 [aphillip]
... also dir=uba, the part that doing the direction is the CSS
17:26:51 [aphillip]
... html doesn't specify
17:27:05 [aphillip]
... only when broken into paras is direction determined
17:27:15 [aphillip]
... different than dir=auto, which is implemented on html levle
17:27:20 [aphillip]
17:29:25 [aphillip]
addison: could uba be default for textarea?
17:29:41 [aphillip]
aharon: separate issue
17:33:50 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate aphillip
17:35:26 [aphillip]
agendum for next time: bidi in svg
17:35:46 [aphillip]
... such as spriting and image flipping
17:35:58 [aphillip]
Topic: AOB?
17:36:16 [aphillip]
Present: Addison, Richard, Norbert, Aharon, Felix, David
17:36:22 [David]
zakim, unmute me
17:36:22 [Zakim]
David should no longer be muted
17:36:32 [aphillip]
richard: character encoding tutorials would like to publish in a week's time
17:36:44 [aphillip]
agendum for next time: publication approval
17:37:01 [Zakim]
17:37:02 [Zakim]
17:37:03 [Zakim]
17:37:03 [Zakim]
17:37:05 [Zakim]
17:37:05 [Zakim]
17:37:05 [Zakim]
I18N_CoreWG()12:30PM has ended
17:37:07 [Zakim]
Attendees were Richard, +7.229.93.aaaa, David, Aharon, Norbert, [IPcaller], Felix, +1.408.790.aabb, Addison
17:37:20 [aphillip]
Meeting: Internationalization Core Teleconference
17:37:27 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate aphillip
17:38:18 [aphillip]
s/i18n telecon/Internationalization Core Teleconference/
17:38:26 [aphillip]
RRSAgent, make minutes
17:38:26 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate aphillip
17:39:18 [aphillip]
aphillip has joined #core
17:39:22 [aphillip]
zakim, bye
17:39:22 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #core
17:39:26 [aphillip]
rrsagent, bye
17:39:26 [RRSAgent]
I see 1 open action item saved in :
17:39:26 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: addison: ask device api WG when it would be appropriate to revew contacts API document [1]
17:39:26 [RRSAgent]
recorded in