16:34:26 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #core
16:34:26 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/08/25-core-irc
16:34:50 <Zakim> +David
16:35:05 <r12a> zakim, +7 is Aharon
16:35:05 <Zakim> +Aharon; got it
16:35:08 <Aharon> zakim, mute me
16:35:08 <Zakim> Aharon should now be muted
16:35:17 <r12a> zakim, ??P is Norbert
16:35:17 <Zakim> +Norbert; got it
16:35:24 <r12a> zakim, who's here ?
16:35:24 <Zakim> On the phone I see Richard, Aharon (muted), Norbert, David
16:35:25 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, fsasaki, David, Norbert, Zakim, Aharon, r12a, kennyluck, fantasai
16:35:38 <r12a> zakim, where's Addison ?
16:35:38 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, r12a.
16:36:15 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:36:48 <Aharon> zakim, unmute me
16:36:48 <Zakim> Aharon should no longer be muted
16:38:05 <Zakim> + +1.408.790.aabb
16:38:09 <Aharon> zakim, mute me
16:38:09 <Zakim> Aharon should now be muted
16:39:07 <David> zakim, mute me
16:39:07 <Zakim> David should now be muted
16:39:20 <r12a> zakim, who's here ?
16:39:20 <Zakim> On the phone I see Richard, Aharon (muted), Norbert, David (muted), Felix (muted), Addison
16:39:23 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, fsasaki, David, Norbert, Zakim, Aharon, r12a, kennyluck, fantasai
16:39:54 <r12a> meeting: i18n telecon
16:40:01 <r12a> chair: Addison
16:49:55 <aphillip> aphillip has joined #core
16:50:42 <aphillip> richard: created two new lists
16:50:50 <aphillip> ... public-i18n-cjk
16:50:57 <aphillip> ... and public-i18n-indic
16:51:13 <aphillip> ... later is so that India office can create Indic document similar to JLReq
16:51:35 <aphillip> norbert: is that much different from thai, burmese and other indic derived scripts
16:52:49 <aphillip> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2010Aug/0006.html
16:53:40 <aphillip> Topic: contact formats convergence
16:53:41 <aphillip> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2010Aug/0007.html
16:53:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/08/25-core-minutes.html aphillip
16:54:25 <aphillip> haven't looked at document in detail yet
16:54:33 <aphillip> seen some attributes like given name
16:54:45 <aphillip> might need transliteration
16:55:05 <aphillip> might need changes to things like street address
16:55:11 <aphillip> needs a thorough review
16:55:43 <aphillip> should be coordinated with our contacts in ietf
16:55:51 <aphillip> how do we proceed here?
16:56:12 <aphillip> when should we do a review?
16:57:27 <aphillip> (above are Felix's intro)
16:57:28 <aphillip> ---
16:57:41 <aphillip> norbert: everyone goes back RFC 2426 vCard
16:59:49 <aphillip> addison: maybe ask wg when to review contacts api?
17:00:01 <fsasaki> +1
17:00:12 <David> +1
17:00:36 <aphillip> ACTION: addison: ask device api WG when it would be appropriate to revew contacts API document
17:02:31 <Aharon> zakim, unmute me
17:02:31 <Zakim> Aharon should no longer be muted
17:03:03 <aphillip> aharon: have some experience with language dependent addresses
17:03:25 <aphillip> ... quite often want to specify "here is the name of this town in (insert arbitrary language list)"
17:03:40 <aphillip> ... street name might want transliterated or translated
17:04:02 <aphillip> ... want to format according to user's language preference
17:04:07 <aphillip> ... turns out to be hard
17:04:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/08/25-core-minutes.html aphillip
17:04:45 <aphillip> ... might have name of town in Russian but street only in English, for example
17:04:48 <aphillip> ... so you get a mix
17:04:55 <aphillip> ... and not useful as mailing address
17:05:12 <aphillip> RRSAgent, set logs world-visible
17:05:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/08/25-core-minutes.html aphillip
17:05:53 <aphillip> RRSAgent, set logs world-visible
17:06:12 <aphillip> Meeting: Internationalization Core Teleconference
17:07:18 <aphillip> richard: might present choices to the user
17:07:57 <aphillip> aharon: want to choose most useful representation (for example)
17:08:12 <aphillip> ... most useful language may not be user's or local language
17:08:35 <aphillip> ... for example, Russian user getting address in Israel probably would end up wanting Hebrew transliterated to Latin script
17:08:55 <aphillip> ... will see if I can share some documents
17:09:15 <aphillip> Topic: Bidi topics (per paragraph auto-direction, etc)
17:10:13 <aphillip> aharon: basically, at f2f meeting, one participant though there was a gap
17:10:53 <aphillip> ... that Unicode Bidi Algorithm, when not given explicit base direction, will choose direction based on first strong character for each paragraph
17:11:01 <aphillip> ... and there are editors that implement this functionality
17:11:04 <aphillip> ... such as gEdit
17:11:14 <aphillip> ... and some on Mac usw.
17:11:25 <aphillip> ... lets you write plain text
17:11:51 <aphillip> ... and the directionality works okay (such as having a note in Hebrew followed by address in London) and it all works
17:11:59 <aphillip> ... but this is absent in HTML and in HTML5
17:12:14 <aphillip> ... so add capability?
17:12:20 <aphillip> ... simplest case is <textarea>
17:12:35 <aphillip> ... and just have browser display each graf according to its own directionality
17:12:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/08/25-core-minutes.html aphillip
17:13:06 <aphillip> aharon: resulting text could display in e.g. <pre>
17:13:22 <aphillip> aharon: there is something to this
17:13:28 <aphillip> ... started playing around with solutions
17:13:42 <aphillip> ... what was worked out at f2f was very ambitioush
17:13:58 <aphillip> ... besides affecting textarea, you could put attribute dir=uba on any element
17:14:06 <aphillip> ... and have layout thereby affected
17:14:16 <aphillip> ... but at same time play nicely with CSS direction
17:14:41 <aphillip> ... but subsquent paras might have different direction from first
17:18:21 <aphillip> aharon: speced and then went home tired ;-)
17:18:30 <aphillip> ... I developed some doubts
17:18:44 <aphillip> ... reported on proceedings 
17:18:51 <aphillip> ... to standards body in israel
17:19:07 <aphillip> ... and some folks said: you went way overboard and use case not that compelling
17:19:25 <aphillip> ... and thus thought my doubts might be justified
17:19:32 <aphillip> ... and sent note to others at f2f
17:20:08 <aphillip> ... and responses were that good reasons for doubts but need to publish results as-is for discussion
17:20:10 <aphillip> ... did so
17:20:29 <aphillip> ... and now published my doubts
17:20:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/08/25-core-minutes.html aphillip
17:21:18 <aphillip> aharon: one person: altough understand doubts, there is still a use case
17:21:34 <aphillip> ... and just use textarea and not some fancy rich text edit control
17:21:42 <aphillip> ... and just easy way to display
17:22:36 <aphillip> addison: just want to reflect text back to user
17:22:46 <aphillip> ... pretty common use case?
17:23:28 <aphillip> aharon: made compromise suggestion
17:23:51 <aphillip> ... allow uba only on <textarea> and something similar to text area but not an input
17:26:06 <aphillip> addison: could use 'auto' and be similar?
17:26:20 <aphillip> aharon: the detection algorithm is different
17:26:43 <aphillip> ... also dir=uba, the part that doing the direction is the CSS
17:26:51 <aphillip> ... html doesn't specify
17:27:05 <aphillip> ... only when broken into paras is direction determined
17:27:15 <aphillip> ... different than dir=auto, which is implemented on html levle
17:27:20 <aphillip> s/levle/level/
17:29:25 <aphillip> addison: could uba be default for textarea?
17:29:41 <aphillip> aharon: separate issue
17:33:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/08/25-core-minutes.html aphillip
17:35:26 <aphillip> agendum for next time: bidi in svg
17:35:46 <aphillip> ... such as spriting and image flipping
17:35:58 <aphillip> Topic: AOB?
17:36:16 <aphillip> Present: Addison, Richard, Norbert, Aharon, Felix, David
17:36:22 <David> zakim, unmute me
17:36:22 <Zakim> David should no longer be muted
17:36:32 <aphillip> richard: character encoding tutorials would like to publish in a week's time
17:36:44 <aphillip> agendum for next time: publication approval
17:37:01 <Zakim> -David
17:37:02 <Zakim> -Felix
17:37:03 <Zakim> -Aharon
17:37:03 <Zakim> -Addison
17:37:05 <Zakim> -Norbert
17:37:05 <Zakim> -Richard
17:37:05 <Zakim> I18N_CoreWG()12:30PM has ended
17:37:07 <Zakim> Attendees were Richard, +7.229.93.aaaa, David, Aharon, Norbert, [IPcaller], Felix, +1.408.790.aabb, Addison
17:37:20 <aphillip> Meeting: Internationalization Core Teleconference
17:37:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/08/25-core-minutes.html aphillip
17:38:18 <aphillip> s/i18n telecon/Internationalization Core Teleconference/
17:38:26 <aphillip> RRSAgent, make minutes
17:38:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/08/25-core-minutes.html aphillip
17:39:18 <aphillip> aphillip has joined #core
17:39:22 <aphillip> zakim, bye
17:39:22 <Zakim> Zakim has left #core
17:39:26 <aphillip> rrsagent, bye
17:39:26 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/25-core-actions.rdf :
17:39:26 <RRSAgent> ACTION: addison: ask device api WG when it would be appropriate to revew contacts API document [1]
17:39:26 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/25-core-irc#T17-00-36