14:43:39 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rif
14:43:39 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/08/24-rif-irc
14:43:42 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rif
14:43:46 <sandro> zakim, this will be rif
14:43:46 <Zakim> ok, sandro; I see SW_RIF()11:00AM scheduled to start in 17 minutes
14:52:26 <Doug> Doug has joined #rif
14:52:53 <Zakim> SW_RIF()11:00AM has now started
14:53:00 <Zakim> + +1.512.342.aaaa
14:53:32 <Doug> zakim, 512 is me
14:53:32 <Zakim> sorry, Doug, I do not recognize a party named '512'
14:53:41 <Doug> zakim, aaaa is me
14:53:41 <Zakim> +Doug; got it
14:57:54 <ChrisW> ChrisW has joined #rif
14:59:27 <Harold> Harold has joined #rif
14:59:32 <ChrisW> Meeting: RIF Telecon 24 Aug 2010
14:59:37 <ChrisW> Chair: Chris Welty
14:59:42 <ChrisW> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2010Aug/0015.html
15:00:17 <ChrisW> rrsagent, make minutes
15:00:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/08/24-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
15:00:25 <ChrisW> zakim, list agenda
15:00:25 <Zakim> I see nothing on the agenda
15:00:31 <ChrisW> agenda+ Admin
15:00:33 <StellaMitchell> StellaMitchell has joined #RIF
15:00:35 <AdrianP> AdrianP has joined #rif
15:00:44 <ChrisW> agenda+ Liason
15:00:49 <ChrisW> agenda+ Actions
15:01:08 <ChrisW> agenda+ RIF in RDF
15:01:16 <ChrisW> agenda+ Sparql
15:01:22 <ChrisW> agenda+ RIF XML
15:01:27 <ChrisW> agenda+ RIF Primer
15:01:32 <ChrisW> agenda+ Test Cases
15:01:36 <ChrisW> agenda+ AOB
15:01:47 <ChrisW> rrsagent, make logs public
15:01:53 <DaveReynolds> DaveReynolds has joined #rif
15:01:57 <Zakim> +[IBM]
15:02:00 <mdean> mdean has joined #rif
15:02:13 <ChrisW> zakim, ibm is temporarily me
15:02:13 <Zakim> +ChrisW; got it
15:02:30 <leora> leora has joined #rif
15:02:37 <Zakim> +Mike_Dean
15:02:38 <Zakim> +??P40
15:02:55 <ChrisW> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:02:55 <Zakim> +??P31
15:02:56 <Zakim> On the phone I see Doug, ChrisW, Mike_Dean, ??P40, ??P31
15:03:10 <Zakim> +??P42
15:03:13 <Zakim> +LeoraMorgenstern
15:03:18 <AdrianP> Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:03:18 <Zakim> On the phone I see Doug, ChrisW, Mike_Dean, DaveReynolds, ??P31, ??P42, LeoraMorgenstern
15:03:32 <Zakim> +AxelPolleres
15:03:40 <StellaMitchell> zakim,  ?p42 is me
15:03:40 <Zakim> sorry, StellaMitchell, I do not recognize a party named '?p42'
15:03:42 <Zakim> +Sandro
15:03:54 <Zakim> + +49.715.22.aabb
15:03:55 <AdrianP> Zakim, ??P31 is me
15:03:55 <Zakim> +AdrianP; got it
15:04:02 <StellaMitchell> zakim, ??p42 is me
15:04:02 <Zakim> +StellaMitchell; got it
15:04:05 <AxelPolleres> I have some question  for AOB on the rif:imports issue.
15:04:12 <ChrisW> Scribe: Adrian Paschke
15:04:12 <AxelPolleres> from SPARQL
15:04:18 <ChrisW> scribenick: AdrianP 
15:04:29 <ChrisW> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:04:30 <Zakim> On the phone I see Doug, ChrisW, Mike_Dean, DaveReynolds, AdrianP, StellaMitchell, LeoraMorgenstern, AxelPolleres, Sandro, +49.715.22.aabb
15:04:35 <ChrisW> zakim, who is talking?
15:04:39 <Harold> zakim, +49.715.22.aabb is me
15:04:39 <Zakim> +Harold; got it
15:04:46 <Zakim> ChrisW, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: LeoraMorgenstern (39%), +49.715.22.aabb (17%), ChrisW (52%), StellaMitchell (4%)
15:04:59 <ChrisW> zakim, next item
15:04:59 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Admin" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:05:17 <Zakim> + +1.503.533.aacc
15:05:25 <ChrisW> last meeting minutes: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2010Aug/0017.html
15:05:34 <ChrisW> PROPOSED: Accept last meeting minutes
15:05:35 <AdrianP> ChrisW: minutes approved
15:05:41 <ChrisW> RESOLVED: Accept last meeting minutes
15:06:25 <Gary_Hallmark> Gary_Hallmark has joined #rif
15:06:33 <ChrisW> zakim, next item
15:06:33 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Liason" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:08:01 <AdrianP> Sandro: RDF Database working group addressing database queries
15:08:28 <AdrianP> Sandro: how rules and queries creating constructive views interact
15:08:36 <ChrisW> zakim, next item
15:08:36 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Actions" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:08:42 <ChrisW> zakim, aacc is Gary 
15:08:42 <Zakim> +Gary; got it
15:09:09 <Harold> Michael and I discovered: RDB2RDF's "Direct Mapping in RIF"
15:09:31 <Harold> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/Direct_Mapping_in_RIF
15:09:53 <AdrianP> Leora: action Send stella recommendations to improve UCR-4.7a test case continued
15:10:50 <AdrianP> ChrisW: can the test case be renamed
15:11:07 <AdrianP> ChrisW: with a meaningfull title
15:11:17 <AdrianP> Stella: yes, can do
15:11:21 <ChrisW> action: rename UCR 4.1.3, etc to meaningful names
15:11:21 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - rename
15:13:34 <AdrianP> ChrisW: issue was that these test cases have a lot of stuff in it - serving as an example but not as a test case
15:14:13 <AdrianP> Doug: leave it and put a comment in the test case
15:15:14 <AdrianP> Doug: comment in the ontology
15:15:32 <ChrisW> action: stella to update TC 4.1.3 to indicate there is non-essential information unlike most test cases
15:15:32 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1040 - Update TC 4.1.3 to indicate there is non-essential information unlike most test cases [on Stella Mitchell - due 2010-08-31].
15:15:37 <AdrianP> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/UCR_4.1.3
15:16:06 <AdrianP> action-1083 closed
15:16:06 <trackbot> Sorry... closing ACTION-1083 failed, please let sysreq know about it
15:16:30 <AdrianP> action 1038 closed
15:16:30 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - 1038
15:16:43 <AdrianP> action-1038 closed
15:16:43 <trackbot> ACTION-1038 Move approved test cases to approved status closed
15:17:45 <ChrisW> zakim, next item
15:17:45 <Zakim> agendum 4. "RIF in RDF" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:18:03 <AdrianP> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/RIF_In_RDF
15:18:33 <AdrianP> Sandro: need to talk to Axel
15:19:19 <AdrianP> Sandro: need to put in text about  RIF Import from RDF
15:19:59 <AdrianP> Sandro: RIF side it would be a note, on the SPARQL side it would be in the spec
15:20:12 <AxelPolleres> what's the URI at the moment?
15:20:39 <AdrianP> Axel: put the text from my mail about it into the text?
15:21:02 <AdrianP> Sandro: probably yes - Sandro needs to be detailed
15:21:15 <AdrianP> Axel: had some text in my last mail
15:22:02 <AdrianP> Sandro: this should turn into a real section http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/RIF_In_RDF#Importing_RIF_into_RDF
15:22:29 <AdrianP> Axel: worried about inconsistencies
15:22:50 <AxelPolleres> need to check possible inconsistencies... sigh.
15:23:35 <AdrianP> ChrisW: SWC deals with importing RDF into RIF
15:24:03 <AdrianP> Sandro: just looking just as SWC, RIF imports RDF which might import again RIF
15:24:58 <AdrianP> Axel: recursive import do not work if just defined in SWC
15:26:18 <AdrianP> Sandro: systems which do SWC and systems which do SWC + this RIF in RDF import
15:27:35 <AdrianP> Axel: Sandro and I will have a call about it; 
15:28:20 <ChrisW> action: Sandro to discuss with Axel the imports issue
15:28:20 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1041 - Discuss with Axel the imports issue [on Sandro Hawke - due 2010-08-31].
15:28:41 <ChrisW> zakim, next item
15:28:41 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Sparql" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:29:44 <AdrianP> Axel: my issue was the URI which needs to work for SPARQL. is not an issue if we define it in the RIF document
15:30:05 <ChrisW> zakim, next item
15:30:05 <Zakim> agendum 6. "RIF XML" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:30:31 <AdrianP> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/RIF%2BXML_data-schema
15:30:31 <ChrisW> zakim, close item 6
15:30:31 <Zakim> agendum 6, RIF XML, closed
15:30:32 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:30:34 <Zakim> 7. RIF Primer [from ChrisW]
15:30:40 <AdrianP> Garry: wait for Christian on this
15:30:40 <ChrisW> zakim, next item
15:30:40 <Zakim> agendum 7. "RIF Primer" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:30:59 <AdrianP> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Primer
15:32:14 <AdrianP> Leora: some sections need fine tuning
15:32:27 <AdrianP> ChrisW: added some more examples, e.g. http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Primer#Third_Example
15:33:12 <AdrianP> Leora: compatibility, test suite
15:33:38 <AdrianP> Leora: data types
15:33:54 <AdrianP> ChrisW: deadline to finish Primer is end of this week
15:34:03 <AdrianP> ChrisW: deadline for reviews next week
15:34:09 <ChrisW> zakim, next item
15:34:09 <Zakim> agendum 8. "Test Cases" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:34:44 <ChrisW> actioN: sandro to ping EricP on Primer
15:34:44 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1042 - Ping EricP on Primer [on Sandro Hawke - due 2010-08-31].
15:34:59 <AdrianP> Harold: Eric Prud'hommeaux already reviewed it
15:35:13 <AxelPolleres> I have one more AOB from SPARQL
15:35:23 <AxelPolleres> (for the end is fine)
15:35:45 <AdrianP>  http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Test
15:35:59 <AdrianP> Stella: what would be the deadline for it
15:36:40 <AdrianP> Sandro: RIF in RDF could be ready for review in two weeks
15:37:14 <AdrianP> ChrisW: version has been already been reviewed; not much changes needed
15:37:49 <AdrianP> ChrisW: no editorial changes are fine for RIF test
15:38:59 <AdrianP> Sandro: test reports from third parties could be useful
15:39:29 <DaveReynolds> http://www.w3.org/TR/rif-test/#Test_Case_Repository
15:40:00 <AdrianP> Leora: is there a pointer in the test document
15:40:08 <AdrianP> Stella: it is in the introduction
15:40:44 <AdrianP> ChrisW: 7 test cases have not been approved yet
15:41:13 <AdrianP> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Category:InDevelopment
15:41:33 <AdrianP> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Category:Proposed
15:42:13 <ChrisW> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Retract
15:43:33 <AdrianP> Adrian: it retracts the complete frame ex:john[ex:status -> "normal" ex:test -> "some value"
15:44:18 <ChrisW> PROPOSED: Approve test case http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Retract
15:44:23 <StellaMitchell> +1
15:44:24 <ChrisW> +1
15:44:27 <DaveReynolds> +1
15:44:29 <Doug> +1
15:44:31 <AdrianP> +1
15:44:33 <mdean> +1
15:44:35 <Harold> +1
15:44:35 <leora> +1
15:44:36 <ChrisW> RESOLVED: Approve test case http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Retract
15:44:40 <Gary> +1
15:44:52 <ChrisW> action: stella move Retract TC to approved
15:44:52 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1043 - Move Retract TC to approved [on Stella Mitchell - due 2010-08-31].
15:47:17 <ChrisW> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/RDF_Combination_Invalid_Constant_1
15:48:16 <ChrisW> action: stella to hide "import profile" in test cases listing
15:48:16 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1044 - Hide "import profile" in test cases listing [on Stella Mitchell - due 2010-08-31].
15:48:28 <ChrisW> zakim, next item
15:48:28 <Zakim> agendum 9. "AOB" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:48:40 <Zakim> -Harold
15:49:16 <AdrianP> Axel: SPARQL Entailment should be reviewed by someone from Rif
15:49:24 <Zakim> +Harold
15:49:27 <AdrianP> Axel: review end of September
15:50:11 <AdrianP> Axel: probably document ready by mid of September
15:50:24 <AdrianP> ChrisW: think Mike already took an action to do it
15:51:25 <Harold> What about progress on http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Implementations ?
15:51:30 <AdrianP> Harold: table of implementations - any progress there?
15:51:58 <Harold> Reminder to send implementation reports?
15:52:01 <AdrianP> Sandro: some new projects
15:52:13 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/Tools
15:52:52 <AdrianP> Sandro: should add a category on RIF here
15:52:59 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/Category:Tool
15:55:39 <sandro> new category....?   "RIF Tool"  maybe?
15:55:56 <sandro> "RIF Consumer" and "RIF Producer"
15:59:46 <DaveReynolds> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/Category:Work
15:59:55 <DaveReynolds> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/RIF
16:00:58 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/RIF_Validator
16:05:40 <AdrianP> Harold: would be great to have a documentation of the translator used for the test cases
16:06:16 <AdrianP> Sandro: could ask the developers to add Wikipage to the SemWeb tools site
16:06:49 <AdrianP> ChrisW: status of Silk?
16:07:01 <AdrianP> Mike: not decided yet
16:07:12 <AdrianP> Mike: portion of it might become open sources
16:08:59 <AdrianP> Open Call for RIF Demos at Rule Challenge at RuleML-2010 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2010Aug/0011.html
16:09:01 <ChrisW> zakim, list attendees
16:09:01 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been +1.512.342.aaaa, Doug, ChrisW, Mike_Dean, DaveReynolds, LeoraMorgenstern, AxelPolleres, Sandro, AdrianP, StellaMitchell, Harold,
16:09:04 <Zakim> ... +1.503.533.aacc, Gary
16:09:09 <Harold> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2010Aug/0011.html
16:09:17 <Zakim> -Gary
16:09:18 <Zakim> -LeoraMorgenstern
16:09:18 <Zakim> -Doug
16:09:18 <ChrisW> rrsagent, make minutes
16:09:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/08/24-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
16:09:19 <Doug> bye
16:09:20 <Zakim> -Sandro
16:09:21 <Zakim> -DaveReynolds
16:09:21 <Zakim> -Mike_Dean
16:09:22 <Zakim> -StellaMitchell
16:09:22 <Zakim> -Harold
16:09:22 <DaveReynolds> bye
16:09:27 <Zakim> -AxelPolleres
16:09:54 <Zakim> -ChrisW
16:09:55 <Zakim> -AdrianP
16:09:56 <Zakim> SW_RIF()11:00AM has ended
16:09:58 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.512.342.aaaa, Doug, ChrisW, Mike_Dean, DaveReynolds, LeoraMorgenstern, AxelPolleres, Sandro, AdrianP, StellaMitchell, Harold, +1.503.533.aacc, Gary
16:39:52 <AxelPolleres> AxelPolleres has left #rif