IRC log of lld on 2010-08-19

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:50:43 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #lld
13:50:43 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/08/19-lld-irc
13:50:51 [TomB]
rrsagent, bookmark
13:50:51 [RRSAgent]
See http://www.w3.org/2010/08/19-lld-irc#T13-50-51
13:50:58 [TomB]
zakim, this will be lld
13:50:58 [Zakim]
ok, TomB; I see INC_LLDXG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 10 minutes
13:51:55 [TomB]
Meeting: LLD XG
13:52:03 [TomB]
Chair: Tom
13:52:09 [michaelp]
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13:52:12 [TomB]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2010Aug/0073.html
13:52:22 [TomB]
Previous: http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/07/29-lld-minutes.html
13:52:48 [TomB]
Regrets: Tod, Andreas, Alexander, Kim, Ray, Oreste, Guenther
13:53:01 [TomB]
rrsagent, please make record public
13:55:59 [Zakim]
INC_LLDXG()10:00AM has now started
13:56:06 [Zakim]
+??P1
13:56:15 [TomB]
zakim, ??p1 is me
13:56:15 [Zakim]
+TomB; got it
13:56:22 [TomB]
zakim, who is on the call?
13:56:22 [Zakim]
On the phone I see TomB
13:56:57 [antoine]
antoine has joined #lld
13:57:14 [GordonD]
GordonD has joined #lld
13:57:23 [Zakim]
+ +33.1.53.79.aaaa
13:57:41 [TomB]
zakim, aaaa is emma
13:57:41 [Zakim]
+emma; got it
13:57:42 [emma]
zakim, aaaa is me
13:57:42 [Zakim]
sorry, emma, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaa'
13:57:57 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
13:58:04 [antoine]
zakim, IPCaller is me
13:58:04 [Zakim]
+antoine; got it
13:58:08 [TomB]
zakim, IPcaller is antoine
13:58:08 [Zakim]
sorry, TomB, I do not recognize a party named 'IPcaller'
13:58:58 [marcia]
marcia has joined #LLD
13:59:30 [Zakim]
+[VrijeUni]
13:59:47 [TomB]
zakim, VrijeUni is MarkVanAssem
13:59:47 [Zakim]
+MarkVanAssem; got it
13:59:51 [Zakim]
+ +1.330.672.aabb
13:59:55 [bvatant]
bvatant has joined #lld
13:59:57 [monica]
monica has joined #lld
14:00:00 [Zakim]
+??P10
14:00:12 [antoine]
zakim, aabb is marcia
14:00:12 [Zakim]
+marcia; got it
14:00:24 [antoine]
zakim, ??P10 is GordonD
14:00:24 [Zakim]
+GordonD; got it
14:00:36 [kcoyle]
kcoyle has joined #lld
14:01:14 [Zakim]
+ +44.194.346.aacc
14:01:17 [Zakim]
+[LC]
14:01:20 [antoine]
zakim, aacc is monica
14:01:20 [Zakim]
+monica; got it
14:01:24 [Zakim]
+ +33.9.71.48.aadd
14:01:28 [antoine]
zakim, LC is edsu
14:01:31 [Zakim]
+edsu; got it
14:01:31 [rsinger]
rsinger has joined #lld
14:01:39 [antoine]
zakim, aadd is bvatant
14:01:39 [Zakim]
+bvatant; got it
14:02:02 [Zakim]
+??P17
14:02:02 [whalb]
whalb has joined #lld
14:02:10 [monica]
\me zakim mute me
14:02:14 [antoine]
zakim, ??P17 is kcoyle
14:02:14 [Zakim]
+kcoyle; got it
14:02:17 [bvatant]
zakim please mute me
14:02:46 [MarkVanAssem]
zakim, mute me
14:02:46 [Zakim]
MarkVanAssem should now be muted
14:03:00 [Zakim]
+whalb
14:03:04 [Zakim]
+ +1.423.463.aaee
14:03:13 [antoine]
zakim, aaee is rsinger
14:03:13 [Zakim]
+rsinger; got it
14:03:31 [bvatant]
zakim, mute me
14:03:31 [Zakim]
bvatant should now be muted
14:06:06 [edsu]
i always fumble around w/ scribing :)
14:06:16 [rsinger]
antoine: ok, next planned mtg, then ;)
14:06:20 [Zakim]
+ +1.607.222.aaff
14:06:53 [antoine]
zakim, aaff is john
14:06:54 [Zakim]
+john; got it
14:07:53 [TomB]
scribe: rsinger
14:07:55 [rsinger]
OK!
14:07:59 [TomB]
scribenick: rsinger
14:08:05 [edsu]
rsinger++
14:08:19 [antoine]
Topic: Admin
14:08:24 [rsinger]
Topic: Admin
14:08:25 [rsinger]
er
14:08:56 [rsinger]
Propse to accept minutes?
14:09:21 [rsinger]
resolved
14:09:36 [antoine]
RESOLVED: To accept minutes of previous telecon: http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/07/29-lld-minutes.html
14:09:53 [rsinger]
RESOLVED: accept meeting minutes of previous telecon: http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/07/29-lld-minutes.html
14:10:43 [rsinger]
TOPIC: F2F Meetings
14:11:06 [rsinger]
Meeting in Pittsburgh around DC2010
14:11:19 [marcia]
marcia has joined #LLD
14:11:32 [rsinger]
Looking for next actions in the LLD space
14:11:47 [rsinger]
What has/has not worked in the DCMI Abstract Model
14:11:54 [rsinger]
How to move forward constructively
14:12:12 [rsinger]
Sat/Sun, have a meeting room @ DC2010
14:12:21 [rsinger]
no registration fee
14:12:30 [rsinger]
antoine: sure
14:12:52 [rsinger]
... wireless costs $350/day
14:13:03 [rsinger]
:)
14:13:44 [rsinger]
... $10-15/person to provide wireless for the day
14:13:48 [kcoyle]
++ pass the hat
14:13:55 [edsu]
+1
14:13:57 [GordonD]
+1
14:14:05 [rsinger]
-- TomB will send proposal to the list
14:14:19 [marcia]
+1
14:14:31 [rsinger]
... will convene by noon(?) on Sunday so people can catch flights
14:14:35 [Zakim]
+ +1.614.764.aagg
14:14:57 [kcoyle]
q+
14:15:01 [rsinger]
... discussion continues re: F2F at SWIB in Cologne
14:15:08 [rsinger]
TOPIC: Use cases
14:16:47 [rsinger]
TomB, any comments on selections of links and the way they're characterized?
14:17:03 [antoine]
s/TomB,/TomB:
14:17:16 [rsinger]
... update schedule
14:18:28 [edsu]
:-)
14:18:55 [edsu]
oh, kai isn't here ...
14:19:12 [rsinger]
TomB: who wants to take the lead on the use cases?
14:19:23 [rsinger]
kcoyle: What do we need to do?
14:19:44 [jneubert]
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14:20:19 [rsinger]
kcoyle: it would be great to know what goes in each part of the use case / many things being left blank
14:20:47 [rsinger]
kcoyle: there are very large use cases, like how we deal with legacy data, are those appropriate as use cases?
14:21:14 [michaelp]
q+ to suggest discussing use cases one by one on future telecon
14:21:16 [antoine]
q+ on Joachim's case
14:21:28 [rsinger]
emma: we need to test use case template within the group
14:21:43 [rsinger]
that is emma, right?
14:21:53 [rsinger]
thanks
14:22:24 [Zakim]
+ +49.40.aahh
14:22:31 [marma]
marma has joined #lld
14:22:45 [antoine]
zakim, aahh is jneubert
14:22:45 [Zakim]
+jneubert; got it
14:23:24 [rsinger]
kcoyle: on the use case notes page, we can put an FAQ?
14:23:36 [rsinger]
antoine: we can use the discussion section of the use case template page
14:23:42 [emma]
+1
14:23:48 [rsinger]
antoine: this was kai's suggestion
14:24:02 [rsinger]
kcoyle: we should note this somewhere
14:24:29 [TomB]
Karen and Antoine propose to use http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Talk:Use_Case_Template
14:24:39 [rsinger]
kcoyle: i will add a note to the use case template to use the discussion section
14:24:46 [GordonD]
next week's telecon islast chance to discuss use cases before end august deadline, so +1 to use wiki between now and then - assuming we stick to deadline
14:25:03 [rsinger]
+1
14:25:06 [antoine]
kcoyle ++
14:25:07 [Zakim]
-jneubert
14:25:09 [bvatant]
+1
14:25:22 [GordonD]
+1 for karen's suggestion
14:25:28 [marcia]
+1
14:25:39 [Zakim]
+??P34
14:25:58 [antoine]
zakim, ??P34 is jneubert
14:25:59 [Zakim]
+jneubert; got it
14:26:03 [kcoyle]
Emma -- didn't understand your last comment
14:26:15 [rsinger]
emma: can you repeat?
14:26:29 [antoine]
-> -> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Use_Case_Publishing_20th_Century_Press_Archives
14:26:41 [antoine]
->jneubert's use case
14:26:50 [rsinger]
emma: jneubert has added two sections to template
14:26:50 [monica]
emma: joachim has added some sections to his template
14:27:57 [antoine]
+1 for including prototype in "related work" but explaining it in the template
14:28:14 [antoine]
s/Related Work/Existing Work
14:28:17 [rsinger]
jneubert: it is not only about technology but applications or prototypes in template
14:28:29 [rsinger]
jneubert: in the Existing Work section
14:28:43 [TomB]
q?
14:29:12 [TomB]
ack kcoyle
14:29:21 [TomB]
ack michaelp
14:29:21 [Zakim]
michaelp, you wanted to suggest discussing use cases one by one on future telecon
14:30:03 [rsinger]
michaelp: go through the use cases one by one in a telecon so we can all contribute to filling the blanks to give input to the use case creators
14:30:26 [TomB]
+1 michaelp's suggestion
14:30:28 [rsinger]
... the target audience really depends on the use case, in jneubert's case it is really an application, in other cases, it's really a task
14:30:35 [kai]
kai has joined #lld
14:30:45 [emma]
+1 to comment the use cases 1 by 1
14:30:45 [TomB]
ack antoine
14:30:51 [Zakim]
antoine, you wanted to comment on Joachim's case
14:31:13 [rsinger]
antoine: use next teleconf to discuss the use cases
14:31:23 [TomB]
q?
14:31:23 [rsinger]
... wanted to mention jneubert's use case
14:31:38 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
14:31:50 [TomB]
zakim, IPcaller is Kai
14:31:50 [Zakim]
+Kai; got it
14:31:59 [Zakim]
-jneubert
14:32:53 [TomB]
q+
14:33:02 [TomB]
ack TomB
14:34:01 [TomB]
q?
14:34:33 [rsinger]
TomB: the schedule
14:35:04 [rsinger]
... we are still at the gathering and development of scenarios
14:35:17 [GordonD]
it would be useful for me to extend schedule
14:35:22 [rsinger]
... should we revise expectations?
14:35:32 [kcoyle]
yes
14:35:32 [GordonD]
+1
14:35:35 [monica]
+1
14:35:40 [bvatant]
+1
14:35:57 [kcoyle]
Sep 15?
14:36:19 [michaelp]
+1
14:36:24 [rsinger]
... continue the action Everyone to create use cases on the "use case note" page http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/UseCaseNotes
14:36:25 [antoine]
q+
14:36:30 [Zakim]
+jneubert
14:36:40 [kai]
+q
14:36:51 [TomB]
ack antoine
14:37:22 [rsinger]
antoine: kcoyle asks if the deadline can be extended until sep. 15th
14:37:44 [TomB]
+1 for extending deadline
14:37:47 [rsinger]
... there can be contribution after the next teleconf
14:37:59 [kcoyle]
ok, i agree
14:38:05 [bvatant]
ok for this
14:38:05 [TomB]
ack kai
14:38:20 [GordonD]
thanx for clarification from antoine
14:38:39 [rsinger]
kai: Are there more ideas for extensions to the template?
14:38:46 [TomB]
q+
14:39:06 [rsinger]
TomB: there was general approval of jneubert's additions
14:39:35 [rsinger]
... look at specific use cases/examples and use those examples to make decisions how to modify templates
14:39:46 [TomB]
ack TomB
14:39:46 [jphipps]
jphipps has joined #lld
14:39:54 [rsinger]
kai: i like the new sections, we'll have a deeper look and discuss next time
14:40:01 [antoine]
me re. joachim's new section, for one of them (prototype) could be in Existing work but explicitly documented in the template instruction for that section
14:40:19 [rsinger]
TOPIC: LLC Topic List
14:40:31 [antoine]
s/LLC/LLD
14:40:36 [rsinger]
heh
14:40:40 [rsinger]
s/LLC/LLC
14:41:06 [TomB]
q?
14:41:13 [rsinger]
kcoyle: the topic list hasn't been refined in a while. do we want further refinement? it is still very informal
14:41:15 [rsinger]
BAH
14:41:22 [rsinger]
s/LLC/LLD
14:42:12 [rsinger]
TomB: will be put on the agenda in Pittsburgh
14:42:15 [antoine]
+1
14:42:47 [rsinger]
TOPIC: NISO Institutional Identifier (I2) working group
14:42:55 [rsinger]
marcia: Already submitted
14:43:05 [marcia]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/NISO-I2
14:43:07 [rsinger]
... recorded in wiki page
14:43:17 [antoine]
ACTION: Marcia to send (informal) group's comment on I2 before the deadline for comments [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/07/29-lld-minutes.html#action05]
14:43:20 [antoine]
--DONE
14:43:26 [rsinger]
... sent note to mailing list referring to: http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/NISO-I2
14:43:56 [rsinger]
TomB: send it to our list as well, just for the public record
14:44:58 [rsinger]
ACTION: marcia to post I2 comments to LLD list
14:45:33 [rsinger]
TOPIC: Library Data resources, and Library Terminology pages
14:45:57 [rsinger]
kcoyle: there is room for other bullet points on the library data resources wiki page
14:46:20 [rsinger]
... this grew very quickly. we have begun one of the possible tasks.
14:46:36 [rsinger]
... a vision of what the range is of library that we need to incorporate into our thinking of linked data
14:47:04 [rsinger]
... came out of work I was doing with OpenLibrary - libraries have their own language - so we use terms that librarians understand, but no one else
14:47:31 [rsinger]
... these aren't formal definitions, helps people understand what librarians mean
14:47:45 [rsinger]
... encourage people on the public list to contribute
14:48:09 [rsinger]
... started to gather together lists of vocabularies already in use for library linked data
14:48:46 [kcoyle]
not me
14:48:47 [rsinger]
ACTION: Gordon will prepare something on RDA, FRBR etc. for discussion in Sept. agenda [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/07/29-lld-minutes.html#action06]
14:48:55 [bvatant]
yes!
14:49:00 [rsinger]
TOPIC: Reports from IFLA
14:49:01 [TomB]
q?
14:49:13 [GordonD]
q
14:49:33 [emma]
q+
14:49:43 [rsinger]
GordonD: IFLA was productive from the LLD perspective - started putting some info. out on the mailing list
14:49:57 [rsinger]
... on the FRBR stuff, hoping to be able to put something out within 2-3 weeks
14:50:16 [rsinger]
... also release an unbounded set of properties and see what happens with community uptake
14:50:40 [bvatant]
http://www.slideshare.net/event/ifla-2010-world-library-and-information-congress-76th-ifla-general-conference-and-assembly
14:50:52 [rsinger]
... FRBR, as is, is deprecated in favor of a consolidated model combining FRBR and FRSAD
14:51:01 [TomB]
q?
14:51:13 [Zakim]
-jneubert
14:51:28 [rsinger]
... bibliographic description different than FRBR, more similar to RDA
14:51:42 [rsinger]
... specific rules about how elements should be displayed
14:51:53 [rsinger]
... will use a DC application profile for this
14:52:02 [rsinger]
... will feed back into DCMI and LLD
14:52:03 [Zakim]
+jneubert
14:52:20 [rsinger]
... hope to make a crosslinking between FRBR and ISBD
14:53:08 [rsinger]
... much of the discussion taking place around linked data
14:53:36 [TomB]
ack emma
14:53:58 [rsinger]
emma: A lot of general interest on semweb at IFLA
14:54:19 [rsinger]
... important session on libraries and semweb, quite long for IFLA (4 hours?)
14:54:26 [rsinger]
... on a Sunday morning!
14:54:35 [TomB]
q?
14:55:17 [rsinger]
... complementary to the technical work, special interest group within IFLA on the general interest, training, etc.
14:56:49 [rsinger]
TOPIC: next telecon
14:56:57 [rsinger]
TomB: next conference, next week
14:57:05 [rsinger]
how do i do that?
14:57:29 [rsinger]
i did that
14:58:03 [rsinger]
--CONTINUES
14:58:09 [rsinger]
hmm
14:58:24 [rsinger]
ACTION: Gordon will prepare something on RDA, FRBR etc. for discussion in Sept. agenda [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/07/29-lld-minutes.html#action06]
14:58:30 [rsinger]
--CONTINUES
14:58:37 [rsinger]
well, that's in there twice, now
14:58:49 [rsinger]
GordonD: so i expect that in duplicate
14:58:53 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #lld
14:58:56 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were TomB, +33.1.53.79.aaaa, emma, antoine, MarkVanAssem, +1.330.672.aabb, marcia, GordonD, +44.194.346.aacc, monica, +33.9.71.48.aadd,
14:58:58 [Zakim]
... edsu, bvatant, kcoyle, +1.423.463.aaee, rsinger, Wolfgang, +1.607.222.aaff, jon, michaelp, +49.40.aahh, jneubert, Kai
14:59:09 [jneubert]
bye
14:59:17 [TomB]
rrsagent, please draft minutes
14:59:17 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/08/19-lld-minutes.html TomB
14:59:34 [MarkVanAssem]
bye
15:00:06 [antoine]
bye, Mark!
15:01:07 [antoine]
ACTION: Everyone to create use cases on the "use case note" page http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/UseCaseNotes . Not more than 2 persons per case. Deadline august 25. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/07/29-lld-minutes.html#action04]
15:01:11 [antoine]
--CONTINUES
15:02:55 [rsinger]
ok, so i download, edit and send to the list?
15:03:51 [TomB]
sees on the phone: TomB, emma, antoine, MarkVanAssem (muted), marcia, GordonD, monica (muted), edsu, bvatant (muted), kcoyle, Wolfgang, rsinger, jon, michaelp (muted), Kai,
15:04:18 [antoine]
joachim
15:04:28 [antoine]
s/joachim/jneubert
15:05:06 [rsinger]
yes
15:05:22 [rsinger]
no, but i can be
15:06:23 [TomB]
zakim, who is on the call?
15:06:25 [rsinger]
oh, ok
15:06:36 [rsinger]
sounds good
15:07:03 [rsinger]
alright
15:07:34 [rsinger]
perfect
15:07:46 [antoine]
rrsagent, please draft minutes
15:07:46 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/08/19-lld-minutes.html antoine
15:08:45 [rsinger]
okie doke
15:08:49 [rsinger]
will get this to you today
15:08:49 [emma]
http://dublincore.org/architecturewiki/DcamInContext
15:09:04 [antoine]
s/raoss/ross
15:09:13 [rsinger]
thanks for being patient with me
15:09:50 [rsinger]
aw, shucks
15:10:54 [TomB]
thank you for scribing ross!
15:11:10 [rsinger]
my pleasure - will be more efficient next time, i hope
15:13:56 [antoine]
bye!
15:26:03 [michaelp]
michaelp has left #lld