15:59:31 RRSAgent has joined #html-wg
15:59:31 logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/08/19-html-wg-irc
15:59:33 RRSAgent, make logs public
15:59:33 Zakim has joined #html-wg
15:59:35 Zakim, this will be html_wg
15:59:35 ok, trackbot; I see HTML_WG()12:00PM scheduled to start in 1 minute
15:59:36 Meeting: HTML Weekly Teleconference
15:59:36 Date: 19 August 2010
15:59:47 HTML_WG()12:00PM has now started
15:59:47 +Plh
15:59:54 phone problems - in process of joining
16:00:34 +[Microsoft]
16:00:40 eliot has joined #html-wg
16:00:48 + +1.732.859.aaaa
16:00:50 zakim, [Microsoft] has paulc
16:00:54 +paulc; got it
16:00:58 +Sam
16:01:02 zakim, who is here?
16:01:04 On the phone I see Plh, [Microsoft], +1.732.859.aaaa, Sam
16:01:10 [Microsoft] has paulc
16:01:14 On IRC I see eliot, Zakim, RRSAgent, manoski, paulc_, rubys, MikeSmith, kliehm, shepazu, aroben, plh, Yudai, Martijnc, Lachy, gavin__, laplink, arronei, hober, karl, ed_work_,
16:01:17 ... Shunsuke, Julian, bryan_sullivan, anne5, Peter, CIA-1, webben, gavin, tH, Philip, jwm, krijnh, inimino, gsnedders, jgraham, scotfl, Hixie, johndrinkwater, drry, jmb, trackbot,
16:01:20 ... pimpbot
16:01:22 +[Microsoft.a]
16:01:35 Zakim, [Microsoft.a] has me
16:01:35 +eliot; got it
16:01:48 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2010JulSep/0015.html
16:01:49 Title: {agenda} HTML WG telecon 2010-08-19: WG decisions, Decision Policy, TF reports from Paul Cotton on 2010-08-17 (public-html-wg-announce@w3.org from July to September 2010) (at lists.w3.org)
16:02:11 adrianba has joined #html-wg
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16:02:58 +Eric_Carlson
16:02:59 Zakim, call Mike
16:02:59 ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
16:03:00 +Mike
16:03:03 JF has joined #html-wg
16:03:17 +[Microsoft.aa]
16:03:24 +Cynthia_Shelly
16:03:26 zakim, [Microsoft.aa] is adrianba
16:03:26 +adrianba; got it
16:03:41 eric_carlson has joined #html-wg
16:03:51 ScribeNick: adrianba
16:03:59 Scribe: Adrian Bateman
16:04:02 Chair: Paul Cotton
16:04:06 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2010JulSep/0015.html
16:04:07 Title: {agenda} HTML WG telecon 2010-08-19: WG decisions, Decision Policy, TF reports from Paul Cotton on 2010-08-17 (public-html-wg-announce@w3.org from July to September 2010) (at lists.w3.org)
16:04:09 Joshue has joined #html-wg
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16:04:16 + +1.425.941.aabb
16:04:33 +John_Foliot
16:04:35 agenda+ would like to ask on behalf of members of the HTML TF if the chairs have any status update on Leif's appeal/objection to the longdesc decision
16:04:45 zakim, aabb is krisk
16:04:45 +krisk; got it
16:04:47 +Rich
16:05:17 TOPIC: ACTION items due by Thursday, Aug 19
16:05:24 paulc: None
16:05:30 TOPIC: New Issues This Week
16:05:33 paulc: None
16:05:40 TOPIC: Working Group decisions
16:05:58 paulc: two parts, pending which hasn't changed and a separate item pending appeal
16:06:03 ISSUE-30?
16:06:03 ISSUE-30 -- Should HTML 5 include a longdesc attribute for images -- closed
16:06:03 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/30
16:06:04 Title: ISSUE-30 - Web Performance Working Group Tracker (at www.w3.org)
16:06:18 paulc: think it would be appropriate to have the team give an update
16:06:41 http://www.malform.no/messages/appeal-issue-30.html
16:06:42 Title: Appeal of ISSUE-30 to the Team Contact (at www.malform.no)
16:06:51 zakim, code?
16:06:51 the conference code is 4865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), Joshue
16:06:53 MikeSmith: as i understand it Leif has asked for this to be escalated for the attention of the director
16:06:56 janina has joined #html-wg
16:06:59 "...in the end caused me to write this Appeal to the Director – via the Team Contact, Mike Smith."
16:07:00 ...I'm not sure what action we need to take
16:07:20 ...escalating within the team means working harder to reach consensus
16:07:27 zakim, call janina
16:07:27 ok, janina; the call is being made
16:07:29 +Janina.a
16:07:30 -Rich
16:07:39 ...course of action is for Leif and others to continue to have a discussion with the chairs about it
16:07:45 ...if that's acceptable to the chairs
16:07:48 zakim, drop janina
16:07:48 Janina.a is being disconnected
16:07:50 -Janina.a
16:07:53 ...if the chairs would like another approach we can do that
16:08:06 ...the language in the process document means we don't escalate issues like this
16:08:11 zakim, call janina
16:08:11 ok, janina; the call is being made
16:08:12 +Janina
16:08:23 ...if someone in the WG feels their not getting due process from chairs then the team contacts take action on that
16:08:47 ...if chairs are acting in bad faith or does not have a foundation in the working process of the group the team should step in to fix that
16:08:58 ...i don't feel that we are there with this issue or any other that has come up so far
16:09:07 q+
16:09:09 ...i think the right way is to continue to deal with this in the group
16:09:29 paul: are you putting this back in the chairs court?
16:09:39 plh: not yet - there is still more discussion that needs to happen
16:09:58 +??P0
16:10:06 zakim, ??P0 is Joshue
16:10:06 +Joshue; got it
16:10:12 zakim, mute me
16:10:12 Joshue should now be muted
16:10:32 jf: for the record, the chairs mentioned an option to escalate to the director
16:10:44 janina: but not as a suggestion, more to complete the options
16:10:59 paulc: i was really trying to make sure my view of the options was out there
16:11:16 q+
16:11:25 ...i take that if plh is telling us this isn't in the chairs hands then the team and the chairs will continue to work on this
16:11:27 ack JF
16:11:40 plh: the team didn't reply so the chairs can't give a timeline
16:11:49 ...i can't give a timeline right now
16:11:57 zakim, unmute me
16:11:57 Joshue should no longer be muted
16:12:03 ...in theory this could run until last call
16:12:08 ack joshue
16:12:14 ...but we don't want to wait that long if possible
16:12:27 Joshue: this seems to be a deadlock between the TF and the WG
16:12:49 ...i hope this doesn't diminish the steps we're taking to improve a11y in html5
16:13:06 ...we're looking for guidance from the chairs about how to move forward
16:13:14 paulc: we're spending a lot of time on this
16:13:26 +1 to Josh
16:13:36 Joshue: we have to try to work out some kind of way to find a solution that both sides are happy with and that improves a11y in the spec
16:14:01 paulc: this is the first time the wg has made a decision that has not gone the way the TF wanted
16:14:22 paulc: i'll leave that comment standing, if your question was a follow-on to the question of timeline
16:14:34 ...i will say that we're working on this and trying to find an acceptable solution
16:14:51 zakim, mute me
16:14:51 Joshue should now be muted
16:15:00 paulc: i'm going to try to move us on
16:15:01 mjs has joined #html-wg
16:15:26 ...it's obvious that the chairs and the team need to give this a high priority and we're doing that
16:15:36 +Maciej
16:15:51 JF: please can you communicate this back to public-html
16:15:58 q?
16:16:13 plh: this is one of the highest priority items that the team and chairs are dealing with
16:16:51 paulc: I will take the request for mail to the next chairs meeting
16:16:57 TOPIC: Decision Policy Update, Maciej S
16:17:17 paulc: in the agenda there are links to the current, draft edited, and to the outstanding bugs
16:17:24 -Joshue
16:17:35 paulc: outstanding bugs most important: http://w3.org/brief/MTk0
16:17:42 Title: Bug List (at w3.org)
16:17:52 mjs: most of the bugs have been filed over time and dealt with
16:18:03 ...the most important remaining one is the process for getting into Last Call
16:18:06 [localhost] MikeSmith: bugzilla problem: HTTP error 500
16:18:16 ...we're working with the team on identifying the best way to handle this
16:19:34 -John_Foliot
16:19:40 mjs: fpwd bug will probably not update the policy - they don't happen very often and we don't have problem handling them
16:20:20 paulc: i think it's fair to say that if we weren't discussing the LC bug we'd have distributed the v2 to the WG for consensus
16:20:42 ...and we're going to try to figure out the LC plan as soon as possible so that we can hand all this to the WG soon
16:20:54 TOPIC: Items closed last week
16:21:09 issue-41?
16:21:09 ISSUE-41 -- Decentralized extensibility -- open
16:21:09 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/41
16:21:10 Title: ISSUE-41 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
16:21:29 paulc: we did a call for advocates on the 5 proposals for issue-41
16:21:41 ...as a result the chairs have dropped change proposals 1 and 2 from the list
16:21:51 ...this leaves us with 3 proposals
16:22:11 http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html#ISSUE-041
16:22:12 Title: Change Proposal Status (at dev.w3.org)
16:22:44 paulc: chairs are pleased that we took this step - a survey with three proposals will be easier
16:23:02 ...more likely that we'll have a successful survey with less items to respond to
16:23:11 ...chairs are discussing schedule for taking this forward
16:23:22 ...started on tuesday, will be on our agenda again on monday
16:23:30 ...could be we'll do this fairly quickly
16:23:43 TOPIC: Items Closing This Week
16:23:48 ISSUE-109?
16:23:48 ISSUE-109 -- change ARIA section title and add extra text about use of ARIA -- open
16:23:48 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/109
16:23:49 Title: ISSUE-109 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
16:24:02 paulc: just bringing this to your attention
16:24:06 TOPIC: Current WG Surveys
16:24:09 paulc: None
16:24:25 TOPIC: Task Force reports - Testing Task Force
16:24:48 krisk: we met last on the 10th, meet again on 24th
16:25:10 krisk: group is focussing on automating the getElementByClassName tests that msft and opera have submitted
16:25:15 ...and reviewing canvas tests
16:25:25 ...hoping that these will be completed by next time we report
16:25:58 paulc: Have you approved more tests?
16:26:14 Kris: No
16:26:18 ...ramification of the automation - we probably will go back and change tests already approved
16:26:33 ...no more have been approved while we work on this
16:26:51 paulc: so you're focusing on this rather than increasing the approved test count
16:26:58 krisk: nothing else to report
16:27:06 TOPIC: Task Force reports - Accessibility Task Force
16:27:49 paulc: two specific items
16:27:53 ISSUE-85?
16:27:53 ISSUE-85 -- ARIA roles added to the a element should be conforming in HTML5 -- open
16:27:53 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/85
16:27:55 Title: ISSUE-85 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
16:27:57 ISSUE-9?
16:27:57 ISSUE-9 -- how accessibility works for