03:16:38 MikeSmithX has joined #html-a11y
03:24:11 MikeSmith has joined #html-a11y
09:26:46 MikeSmith has joined #html-a11y
14:58:49 RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
14:58:49 logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/08/19-html-a11y-irc
14:58:51 RRSAgent, make logs world
14:58:51 Zakim has joined #html-a11y
14:58:53 Zakim, this will be 2119
14:58:53 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
14:58:54 Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:58:54 Date: 19 August 2010
14:58:57 janina has joined #html-a11y
14:59:22 zakim, call janina
14:59:22 ok, janina; the call is being made
14:59:45 hey Josh, hi
14:59:58 zakim, who's here?
14:59:58 WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM has not yet started, janina
15:00:00 On IRC I see janina, Zakim, RRSAgent, eric_carlson, Marco_Ranon, jongund, JF, Joshue, davidb, MikeSmith, trackbot
15:00:36 oedipus has joined #html-a11y
15:01:25 GJR has been ill, so asks for a week extension to review access-* with UAAG (in particular, jeanne, kelly, and jim allan
15:02:12 Zakim, call Mike
15:02:12 ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
15:02:17 can't get his headphones into the back of his iMac..
15:03:02 and a heary aloha back :-)
15:03:42 agenda+ can we get a status report on Leif's Appeal, and discuss whether this group plans to do anything else with regard to the Issue 30
15:04:29 kliehm has joined #html-a11y
15:05:12 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Aug/0139.html
15:05:16 agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Aug/0139.html
15:05:38 zakim, choose a victim
15:05:38 sorry, oedipus, I don't know what conference this is
15:05:53 meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Weekly Telecon
15:06:01 Ben has joined #html-a11y
15:06:21 scribe: janina
15:06:44 zakim, take up item 1
15:06:44 agendum 1. "can we get a status report on Leif's Appeal, and discuss whether this group plans to do anything else with regard to the Issue 30" taken up [from JF]
15:06:51 richardschwerdtfe has joined #html-a11y
15:06:59 agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Aug/0139.html
15:07:15 paulc has joined #html-a11y
15:07:43 agenda+ Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open
15:07:43 agenda+ ARIA mappings update (incorporated change suggested by chairs?)
15:07:43 agenda+ canvas update (new proposal for focus-ring/caret API?)
15:07:43 agenda+ media update (timing mechanism relation to caption format?)
15:07:44 agenda+ media subteam chairing
15:07:46 agenda+ bug triage subteam report; http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Bugs/New_A11Y_Bug_Snapshot_20100815
15:07:48 agenda+ drag-and-drop status
15:07:50 agenda+ next meetings, confirm date/time, choose scribe
15:07:52 agenda+ be done
15:08:00 zakim, agenda?
15:08:02 I see 10 items remaining on the agenda:
15:08:03 Zakim, take up item 2
15:08:04 1. can we get a status report on Leif's Appeal, and discuss whether this group plans to do anything else with regard to the Issue 30 [from JF]
15:08:09 2. Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open [from MikeSmith]
15:08:11 3. ARIA mappings update (incorporated change suggested by chairs?) [from MikeSmith]
15:08:13 4. canvas update (new proposal for focus-ring/caret API?) [from MikeSmith]
15:08:15 5. media update (timing mechanism relation to caption format?) [from MikeSmith]
15:08:17 6. media subteam chairing [from MikeSmith]
15:08:18 zakim, who is here?
15:08:21 7. bug triage subteam report; http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Bugs/New_A11Y_Bug_Snapshot_20100815 [from MikeSmith]
15:08:21 Joshue has joined #html-a11y
15:08:26 8. drag-and-drop status [from MikeSmith]
15:08:28 9. next meetings, confirm date/time, choose scribe [from MikeSmith]
15:08:30 10. be done [from MikeSmith]
15:08:34 agendum 2. "Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open" taken up [from MikeSmith]
15:08:34 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/08/19-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
15:08:36 WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM has not yet started, paulc
15:08:38 On IRC I see Joshue, paulc, richardschwerdtfe, Ben, kliehm, oedipus, janina, Zakim, RRSAgent, eric_carlson, Marco_Ranon, jongund, JF, davidb, MikeSmith, trackbot
15:08:38 zakim, code?
15:08:40 cyns has joined #html-a11y
15:08:45 the conference code is 2119 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), Joshue
15:09:10 zakim this is WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)
15:09:26 zakim, this is WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)
15:09:26 ok, oedipus; that matches WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM
15:10:51 chair: Mike_Smith
15:11:13 regrets: Laura_Carlson,Kenny_Johar,Sylvia_Pfieffer
15:11:30 action-52?
15:11:30 ACTION-52 -- John Foliot to create a prioritized list due 30 august -- due 2010-08-18 -- OPEN
15:11:30 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/52
15:11:42 I'm calling from the UK using +44.203.318.0479
15:12:22 action-47?
15:12:22 ACTION-47 -- Steve Faulkner to file a bug with HTML 5 about making autocomplete consistent with ARIA, per comment 289 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/comments/update?comment_id=289 -- due 2010-07-29 -- OPEN
15:12:22 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/47
15:12:53 action-28?
15:12:53 ACTION-28 -- Gregory Rosmaita to - prepare text for SteveF's guidance document about future of data-mining using RDFPic methodology outlined in post to list -- due 2010-07-29 -- OPEN
15:12:53 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/28
15:13:28 action-28: gregory wants to keep this open so he can talk with Steven and port text
15:13:28 ACTION-28 - prepare text for SteveF's guidance document about future of data-mining using RDFPic methodology outlined in post to list notes added
15:13:29 Hi Josue. I'm surprised the UK bridge takes two calls. That's good.
15:13:40 lol
15:14:07 + +21aacc
15:14:17 zakim, +21 aacc is Joshue
15:14:17 I don't understand '+21 aacc is Joshue', Joshue
15:14:23 action-28 due 2010-08-27
15:14:23 ACTION-28 - prepare text for SteveF's guidance document about future of data-mining using RDFPic methodology outlined in post to list due date now 2010-08-27
15:14:35 zakim, +21 is Joshue
15:14:35 +Joshue; got it
15:14:39 ah! still the same then.
15:14:44 zakim, mute me
15:14:44 Joshue should now be muted
15:15:05 zakim, next item
15:15:05 agendum 1. "can we get a status report on Leif's Appeal, and discuss whether this group plans to do anything else with regard to the Issue 30" taken up [from JF]
15:15:25 zakim, take up item 3
15:15:25 agendum 3. "ARIA mappings update (incorporated change suggested by chairs?)" taken up [from MikeSmith]
15:16:06 http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/misc/HTML5/aria-html5-proposal.html
15:16:06
15:16:06 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/ARIAinHTML5
15:16:06 --
15:16:38 Subteam has been working on conforming our recommendation to the Wg Decision Policy per Chairs suggestion
15:17:07 cs: Very close to complete on the doc
15:17:35 JS: complete editorial work, take to email CfC
15:18:04 -> http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/misc/HTML5/aria-html5-proposal.html current proposed spec text for ARIA in HTML5
15:18:22 -> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/ARIAinHTML5 Change Proposal: ARIA in HTML5
15:18:50 cs: Believe single table will help comprehension. People were having trouble finding things.
15:19:21 cs: Reorganized text in allowable states and properties tables. Allows any role, and describes allowable attribs
15:19:29 regrets+ Denis_Boudreau
15:19:51 cs: Primary concern had been hard to understand.
15:19:56 -> http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/misc/HTML5/aria-html5-proposal.html#override ARIA to HTML mappings and allowed overrides
15:20:00 cs: Hopefully, it's much more clear now
15:20:39 jf: Has this anything to do with current WBS on Issue-109?
15:20:43 rs: Yes.
15:20:54 jf: Has this been logged in the survey tool?
15:21:01 rs: I noted it.
15:21:01 -Mike
15:21:33 MikeSmithX has joined #html-a11y
15:21:51 doc says: ARIA "defines a way to make Web content and Web applications more accessible to people with disabilities. It especially helps with dynamic content and advanced user interface controls developed with Ajax, Dynamic HTML, JavaScript, Cascading Style Sheets, and related technologies"
15:21:56 cs: We have guidance on error messaging
15:21:57 Zakim, call Mike
15:21:57 ok, MikeSmithX; the call is being made
15:21:58 +Mike
15:22:01 -Marco_Ranon
15:22:31 Zakim, drop Mike
15:22:31 Mike is being disconnected
15:22:32 -Mike
15:22:35 Zakim, call Mike
15:22:35 ok, MikeSmithX; the call is being made
15:22:36 +Mike
15:22:46 Zakim, drop Mike
15:22:46 Mike is being disconnected
15:22:47 -Mike
15:22:49 zakim, drop mike
15:22:49 sorry, janina, I do not see a party named 'mike'
15:22:54 +Marco_Ranon
15:23:22 +??P5
15:23:29 cs: Next the actual change proposal ...
15:23:30 Zakim, ??P5 is me
15:23:30 +MikeSmithX; got it
15:23:52 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/ARIAinHTML5
15:24:35 zakim, who is noisy?
15:24:44 -MikeSmithX
15:24:46 oedipus, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: MikeSmithX (50%), Cynthia_Shelly (37%)
15:25:22 +??P5
15:25:28 Zakim, ??P5 is me
15:25:28 +MikeSmithX; got it
15:25:52 Related to this, and closing today: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/issue-109-objection-poll/
15:26:10 http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/issue-109-objection-poll/results
15:26:28 cs: last section explains how items in table were chosen
15:26:42 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/ARIAinHTML5#Guiding_factors_for_decisions_on_ARIA_Role_use:
15:26:46 cs: details links to the doc
15:26:53 JF notes that only 5 responses so far
15:26:57 cs: Feedback on impact would be useful
15:28:02 ms: Would be useful to get Henry's comments, but he's away on vacation and hard to get his time
15:28:28 cs: I'm also on vacation
15:28:30 I need to go
15:28:37 -??P20
15:29:01 ms: Point of talking with Henry is his ongoing work on the validator
15:29:13 q?
15:29:21 rs: that's the html5 validator?
15:30:12 pc: We requested editor to prioritize bug 10666 ...
15:30:23 pc: Now we need to get this back to the editor's hands
15:30:44 -> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10066 bug 10066
15:30:58 rich, henri maintains http://validator.nu/
15:32:10 yes, I am aware of that
15:32:13 pc: ms: Is there any
15:32:16 JS: if Steve is done with all the edits, then... but he is not here
15:32:20 cs: I believe all edits are in
15:32:22 CS: he has finished the edits
15:33:19 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/08/19-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
15:33:44 propose RESOLUTION: Steve and/or Cynthia to respond on bug 10066 by forwarding the "Use of WAI-ARIA Roles, States and Properties in HTML" draft spec text and "ARIA in HTML5: replace current text of section 3.2.6" to the HTML WG and chairs on behalf of the TF
15:34:25 plus 1
15:34:31 +1
15:34:35 +1
15:35:38 janina: we have a previous resolution this, so we should not record another one
15:35:56 janina: suggest a formal resolution not needed, as we've previously done that. This is a response for additional information from the chairs
15:36:44 rs: not many cycles for ad hoc debate on wg list for this
15:36:46 action: Steven to respond to chairs response for additional information on bug 10066 by forwarding the "Use of WAI-ARIA Roles, States and Properties in HTML" draft spec text and "ARIA in HTML5: replace current text of section 3.2.6" to the HTML WG and chairs
15:36:46 Sorry, couldn't find user - Steven
15:36:52 janina: suggest a process discussion
15:36:54 action: Steve to respond to chairs response for additional information on bug 10066 by forwarding the "Use of WAI-ARIA Roles, States and Properties in HTML" draft spec text and "ARIA in HTML5: replace current text of section 3.2.6" to the HTML WG and chairs
15:36:55 Created ACTION-55 - Respond to chairs response for additional information on bug 10066 by forwarding the "Use of WAI-ARIA Roles, States and Properties in HTML" draft spec text and "ARIA in HTML5: replace current text of section 3.2.6" to the HTML WG and chairs [on Steve Faulkner - due 2010-08-26].
15:37:10 pc: you won't get the editor on the telecon
15:37:38 pc: so this doc updates but 1066 and puts it back in the editor's queue
15:37:46 -Marco_Ranon
15:37:48 pc: chairs will amek sure he does it in priority
15:38:09 cs: our concern is about how we proceed with discussion in the wg after the editor's response
15:38:19 s/amek/make/
15:38:23 +Marco_Ranon
15:38:30 rs: we're referring to all the discussions on longdesc and others
15:38:30 action: Steven to add comment to bug 10066 with links to the "Use of WAI-ARIA Roles, States and Properties in HTML" draft spec text and "ARIA in HTML5: replace current text of section 3.2.6"
15:38:30 Sorry, couldn't find user - Steven
15:38:38 pc: but that's orthogonal on 1066
15:38:40 action: Steve to respond to chairs response for additional information on bug 10066 by forwarding the "Use of WAI-ARIA Roles, States and Properties in HTML" draft spec text and "ARIA in HTML5: replace current text of section 3.2.6" to the HTML WG and chairs
15:38:40 Created ACTION-56 - Respond to chairs response for additional information on bug 10066 by forwarding the "Use of WAI-ARIA Roles, States and Properties in HTML" draft spec text and "ARIA in HTML5: replace current text of section 3.2.6" to the HTML WG and chairs [on Steve Faulkner - due 2010-08-26].
15:39:11 pc: i'm not trying to avoid the problem, which is how to better discuss a11y items
15:39:23 pc: point now is to get the bug updated with this new material
15:40:18 cs: our concern was re massive on list in wg
15:40:22 pc: will work on that too
15:40:45 cs: we're ready to move forward, just want most efficient way.
15:40:54 ms: anything else about aria mappings at this point?
15:41:48 ms: can someone give steve a heads up on his actions
15:41:50 cs: will do
15:41:56 s/1066/10066/
15:42:23 zakim, take up item 5
15:42:23 agendum 5. "media update (timing mechanism relation to caption format?)" taken up [from MikeSmith]
15:43:00 jf: continue to meet weekly, hard to explain the progress, but are making it
15:43:32 jf: action on me to create a spread sheet extrapolating tech reqs from the user reqs so we can prioritize the tech work
15:44:20 jf: we've reviewed a good deal of the websrt work from the what wg
15:44:46 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Aug/0136.html
15:44:56 ms: specific question ...
15:45:16 ms: about the timing mechanism, left up to the format?
15:45:25 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Aug/0014.html
15:45:27 Mike, actions 55 and 56 look the same to me? Was there another one?
15:45:44 jf: issue is that we need to support alternative media to be provided by third parties, descriptions, captions, etc
15:46:06 jf: there needs to be a mechanism for that
15:46:26 Zakim, mute [Microsoft]
15:46:26 [Microsoft] should now be muted
15:46:48 jf: we now have some videos that demonstrate extended descriptions
15:47:11 jf: provided by ncam and we have authority to share
15:47:27 JF, what about media.w3.org ???
15:48:07 ms: great, but question is is will we formally object if media a11y isn't in last call?
15:48:40 ms: showstopper?
15:48:50 jf: personal opinion, yes. tf? can't say
15:48:55 q+
15:49:11 ms: we need implementers to give tech assessment of impact
15:49:21 q?
15:49:23 ack eric_carlson
15:49:31 q+
15:49:34 jf: this has been a largely discussed topic for weeks,
15:50:04 EC: only issue with extended descriptions
15:50:11 JS: don't agree -- have issue with sign as well
15:50:37 ec: we need to decide whether we make a decision is only an issue with extended descriptions
15:51:40 ms: think impleme nters need to tell us what they can implement near term or what will take longer
15:51:55 jf: that's why we're getting the example files from ncam
15:52:03 jf: we also have from ibm japan
15:52:16 ms: but not in a browser
15:52:31 q+
15:52:44 ms; but not in a browser?
15:53:00 ms: huge difference between integrated in browser and external app
15:53:02 q?
15:53:36 jf: this is one of the biggest discussion points in our queue, and give you an answer today
15:53:50 ack richardschwerdtfe
15:54:05 rs: john you're referring to description audio with video?
15:54:08 oedipus has joined #html-a11y
15:54:20 rs: if no vehicle then html5 can't meet us sec 508
15:54:26 rs: yes a big deal
15:54:30