IRC log of sparql on 2010-08-17

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:32:36 [RRSAgent]
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/08/17-sparql-irc
13:32:42 [Zakim]
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13:58:10 [AxelPolleres]
trackbot, start meeting
13:58:12 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
13:58:14 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 77277
13:58:14 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
13:58:15 [trackbot]
Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
13:58:16 [trackbot]
Date: 17 August 2010
13:59:20 [bglimm]
Zakim, I am here. Why don't you get that?
13:59:21 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, bglimm.
13:59:31 [kasei]
heh
14:00:00 [MattPerry]
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14:00:02 [kasei]
Zakim, who's here?
14:00:02 [Zakim]
SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has not yet started, kasei
14:00:03 [Zakim]
On IRC I see MattPerry, SteveH, AlexPassant, NicoM, bglimm, OlivierCorby, Zakim, RRSAgent, AxelPolleres, LeeF, karl, kasei, pgearon, iv_an_ru, sandro, trackbot
14:00:15 [AxelPolleres]
Zakim, who is on the phone?
14:00:15 [Zakim]
SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has not yet started, AxelPolleres
14:00:18 [Zakim]
On IRC I see MattPerry, SteveH, AlexPassant, NicoM, bglimm, OlivierCorby, Zakim, RRSAgent, AxelPolleres, LeeF, karl, kasei, pgearon, iv_an_ru, sandro, trackbot
14:00:19 [bglimm]
What a crap. First Zakim does not recognize that I have called and not all circuits are busy!
14:00:30 [SteveH]
bglimm, ah, I jsut beat you I guess
14:00:39 [bglimm]
Sandro, Ivan, any chance that this will be fixed any time soon?
14:00:48 [AxelPolleres]
Zakim, who is on the phone?
14:00:48 [Zakim]
SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has not yet started, AxelPolleres
14:00:49 [Zakim]
On IRC I see MattPerry, SteveH, AlexPassant, NicoM, bglimm, OlivierCorby, Zakim, RRSAgent, AxelPolleres, LeeF, karl, kasei, pgearon, iv_an_ru, sandro, trackbot
14:01:00 [AxelPolleres]
Zakim, this is SPARQL
14:01:00 [Zakim]
ok, AxelPolleres; that matches SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM
14:01:11 [AxelPolleres]
Zakim, who is on the phone?
14:01:11 [Zakim]
On the phone I see kasei, AxelPolleres, +44.208.439.aacc, +49.911.973.4.aadd, +33.4.92.38.aaee
14:01:17 [Souri]
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14:01:28 [SteveH]
Zakim, aacc is [Garlik]
14:01:29 [Zakim]
+[Garlik]; got it
14:01:33 [Zakim]
+ +44.186.528.aaff
14:01:36 [bglimm]
Yes, SteveH, but I dialed in twice before and Zakim just did not recognise that
14:01:38 [SteveH]
Zakim, [Garlik] is temporarily me
14:01:38 [Zakim]
+SteveH; got it
14:01:43 [OlivierCorby]
Zakim, aaee is me
14:01:43 [Zakim]
+OlivierCorby; got it
14:01:44 [Zakim]
+ +1.603.897.aagg
14:01:45 [bglimm]
Zakim, +44.186.528.aaff is me
14:01:46 [Zakim]
+bglimm; got it
14:01:51 [Zakim]
+ +1.603.897.aahh
14:01:54 [bglimm]
now calling via France
14:01:55 [MattPerry]
zakim, aagg is me
14:01:55 [Zakim]
+MattPerry; got it
14:01:55 [AxelPolleres]
Zakim, who is on the phone?
14:01:58 [Zakim]
On the phone I see kasei, AxelPolleres, SteveH, +49.911.973.4.aadd, OlivierCorby, bglimm, MattPerry, +1.603.897.aahh
14:02:01 [Souri]
zakim, aahh is me
14:02:03 [Zakim]
+Souri; got it
14:02:03 [NicoM]
Zakim, +49.9 is me
14:02:05 [Zakim]
+NicoM; got it
14:02:09 [SteveH]
bglimm, are you using the London number? the other one doesn't work at all, as far as I can see
14:02:23 [AxelPolleres]
scribe: OlivierCorby
14:02:27 [bglimm]
+44.203.318.0479 that's what I use
14:02:33 [bglimm]
As in the agenda
14:02:35 [AxelPolleres]
agenda: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2010-08-17
14:02:49 [SteveH]
bglimm, yeah. that's the one I connected on
14:02:53 [kasei]
Zakim, who is talking?
14:03:00 [kasei]
very loud
14:03:00 [bglimm]
Zakim, mute me
14:03:00 [Zakim]
bglimm should now be muted
14:03:01 [AxelPolleres]
regrets: Nicholas Humfrey, AndyS
14:03:04 [Zakim]
kasei, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: AxelPolleres (33%), bglimm (50%)
14:03:19 [bglimm]
I just muted, I think I have a noisy line
14:03:47 [chimezie]
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14:04:31 [Zakim]
+Sandro
14:04:42 [Zakim]
+Chimezie_Ogbuji
14:04:44 [AxelPolleres]
PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-08-10
14:05:13 [Zakim]
+pgearon
14:05:16 [AxelPolleres]
RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-08-10
14:05:40 [AxelPolleres]
topic: comment by TBL
14:05:44 [Zakim]
+ +1.617.245.aaii
14:05:49 [AxelPolleres]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2010Aug/0004.html
14:05:51 [Zakim]
+??P34
14:05:53 [AlexPassant]
Zakim, ??P34 is me
14:05:53 [Zakim]
+AlexPassant; got it
14:06:30 [AxelPolleres]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010JulSep/0227.html
14:07:31 [OlivierCorby]
1st point about linked data
14:07:51 [LeeF]
Should we take these one at a time for group discussion?
14:08:21 [AxelPolleres]
lee, yup, let'chime summarise first
14:09:59 [LeeF]
k
14:10:27 [AxelPolleres]
1) One point is that, mostly, this is a book about how to implement a
14:10:27 [AxelPolleres]
linked data when you have an existing SPARQL server. This is clearly a good idea..
14:10:27 [AxelPolleres]
That could be expressed in the abstract.
14:11:42 [AxelPolleres]
Chime: how can we refere to LinkedData /design issues doc... since it's not a spec
14:11:57 [OlivierCorby]
Relevance of linked data wrt to this doc ?
14:12:14 [LeeF]
I don't personsally share Tim's view, but I also don't have any objections to this view (so yeah, I agree with Chime and Axel)
14:12:51 [LeeF]
I view it as a lightweight, higly portable way to work with RDF data, that's it
14:12:58 [LeeF]
s/higly/highly
14:13:26 [AxelPolleres]
ACTION: chime to add a statement reflecting TL-1 point 1) in the http-rdf-update
14:13:26 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-294 - Add a statement reflecting TL-1 point 1) in the http-rdf-update [on Chimezie Ogbuji - due 2010-08-24].
14:13:49 [LeeF]
(BTW, my regrets next week - on vacation)
14:14:27 [OlivierCorby]
2. direct vs indirect graph manipulation
14:14:49 [AxelPolleres]
"I would prefer 4.2 be couched as "Graph Mirroring". This echoes the way many web sites
14:14:49 [AxelPolleres]
(and FTP sites) mirror another's contents, and may even provide enhanced access, while not being authoritative.
14:14:49 [AxelPolleres]
"
14:15:59 [AxelPolleres]
Axel: Graph Mirroring is a use case, but not the only one, we should make that clear in the response.
14:16:29 [AxelPolleres]
Chime: hostname/authority was maybe not clear, maybe just needs some rewording
14:16:30 [chimezie]
".. it is often the case (with HTTP graph URIs in particular) that the server associated with the hostname is not the same as the server managing the identified RDF knowledge (as a result of a change in domain name ownership, for instance), the host server is not available, or the URI is not dereferencable"
14:17:58 [AxelPolleres]
Chime: general tenor of the mail, is that Tim unerstand the whole document as one use case we have in mind.
14:18:27 [AxelPolleres]
sandro: maybe easier, if we respond and try to find some concrete suggestions we can take on board.
14:19:13 [AxelPolleres]
"I'd note that it may be useful to have a way of saying that. A simple P label could do."
14:19:42 [AxelPolleres]
this sentence not really understandable, maybe ask for clarification.
14:20:21 [AxelPolleres]
"so instead of
14:20:21 [AxelPolleres]
http://example.com/rdf-graphs/employees?graph=http%3A//www.example.org/other/graph
14:20:22 [AxelPolleres]
why not
14:20:22 [AxelPolleres]
http://example.com/rdf-graphs/www.example.org/other/graph
14:20:22 [AxelPolleres]
or
14:20:22 [AxelPolleres]
http://example.com/rdf-graphs/employees/other/graph
14:20:24 [AxelPolleres]
"
14:20:36 [SteveH]
we need the http/https/urn scheme in there I think
14:21:06 [AxelPolleres]
Should we mention both alternatives? I.e. explicityle ecourage masking
14:21:06 [AxelPolleres]
the "?" URIs and adding a section that explains why that might be
14:21:07 [AxelPolleres]
useful?
14:21:21 [pgearon]
I'd like to see ? as an option
14:21:38 [kasei]
+1 pgearon
14:21:46 [SteveH]
yeah
14:21:47 [AxelPolleres]
tim wrote: "A rewrite rule on the server can of course turn this into the "?" form internally and the CGI apparatus fired up as a result."
14:22:28 [pgearon]
Many implementations are servlet based, and ? is much easier there
14:22:29 [SteveH]
rewrite rules aren't that bothered about ?s
14:22:43 [SteveH]
pgearon, really? even with PUT?
14:22:50 [NicoM]
for non static graphs, having proxies not cache anything may be a good thing
14:23:11 [LeeF]
are proxies that don't cache ? URIs behaving as per spec or are they being naughty?
14:23:16 [AxelPolleres]
Axel: Should we explicitly mention the rewrite option in the doc?
14:23:18 [pgearon]
SteveH: for me, sure. I'd expect that JS based implementations would prefer ? as well
14:23:26 [AxelPolleres]
Chime: wouldn't hurt, can think aobut some text.
14:23:37 [SteveH]
pgearon, not really, you have to write your own parser either way
14:25:03 [AxelPolleres]
points 4) 5) ...
14:25:56 [AxelPolleres]
chime: maybe we should ask back for clarification whether there's specific text he had in mind.
14:26:05 [AxelPolleres]
sandroL: quicker if we propose text
14:26:09 [AxelPolleres]
chime: ok
14:27:31 [AxelPolleres]
"...that THE DEFAULT GRAPH OF THE QUERY IS THE ONE IN THE HTTP REQUEST.
14:27:31 [AxelPolleres]
Obvious really, but people can miss it."
14:28:52 [AxelPolleres]
chime: last TC we need to clarify protocol interaction in general. we can put that in the response
14:29:00 [AxelPolleres]
... ongoing issue
14:29:37 [AxelPolleres]
Axel: last point 6) on MS-Author-Via header
14:29:57 [AxelPolleres]
Chime: some idea, but not sure what he had in mind
14:30:06 [AxelPolleres]
... ask back for clarification.
14:30:36 [AxelPolleres]
ACTION: Chime to draft response for TL-1
14:30:36 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-295 - Draft response for TL-1 [on Chimezie Ogbuji - due 2010-08-24].
14:31:44 [Zakim]
- +1.617.245.aaii
14:31:53 [AxelPolleres]
topic: issues to be postponed
14:32:58 [AxelPolleres]
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/issues
14:34:06 [SteveH]
yes, it was stuff that was left over
14:34:10 [SteveH]
we did it by hand IIRC
14:34:16 [SteveH]
by we, I mean other people :)
14:34:26 [chimezie]
Zakim, mute me
14:34:26 [Zakim]
Chimezie_Ogbuji should now be muted
14:35:14 [Zakim]
+Lee_Feigenbaum
14:35:24 [AxelPolleres]
"alternative limit per resource" http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010JulSep/0194.html
14:35:28 [LeeF]
the issues list was very much done by hand
14:35:38 [LeeF]
zakim, huh?
14:35:38 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, LeeF.
14:35:43 [LeeF]
the issues list was very much done by hand
14:36:47 [pgearon]
+1 for not touching it right now
14:36:51 [AxelPolleres]
ISSUE: Treatment of "alternative limit per resource" http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010JulSep/0194.html
14:36:51 [trackbot]
Created ISSUE-61 - Treatment of "alternative limit per resource" http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010JulSep/0194.html ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/issues/61/edit .
14:37:29 [AxelPolleres]
query syntax for algebra operators http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010JulSep/0193.html
14:38:12 [AxelPolleres]
ISSUE: shall there be more concise query syntax for all algebra operators http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010JulSep/0193.html
14:38:12 [trackbot]
Created ISSUE-62 - Shall there be more concise query syntax for all algebra operators http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010JulSep/0193.html ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/issues/62/edit .
14:38:52 [AxelPolleres]
axel: ISSUE-62 related to the open issue around assignment.
14:39:55 [SteveH]
why are these being created as ISSUES?!
14:41:14 [pgearon]
SteveH, perhaps AxelPolleres means that it's a known limitation of the language?
14:42:29 [AxelPolleres]
PROPOSED: close ISSUE-61 with the understanding that we leave treatment of such queries for a coming WG
14:44:49 [AxelPolleres]
PROPOSED: close ISSUE-61 and ISSUE-62 with the understanding that this is out of scope of the current WG
14:45:01 [AxelPolleres]
close ISSUE-61
14:45:01 [trackbot]
ISSUE-61 Treatment of "alternative limit per resource" http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010JulSep/0194.html closed
14:45:10 [AxelPolleres]
close ISSUE-62
14:45:10 [trackbot]
ISSUE-62 Shall there be more concise query syntax for all algebra operators http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010JulSep/0193.html closed
14:45:41 [pgearon]
+q
14:45:49 [pgearon]
q-
14:46:49 [AxelPolleres]
Axel: so, postponed issue will only be those which we really can't close.
14:47:02 [AxelPolleres]
.... this way we don't put any burden to a future WG.
14:47:53 [AxelPolleres]
topic: mark SPARQL update member submission
14:49:29 [AxelPolleres]
Axel: sandro, can we add a disclaimer on the member submission?
14:49:53 [AxelPolleres]
Sandro: as long as we check with submitters, and find sensible wording, that should be fine.
14:50:33 [AxelPolleres]
Axel: What we're looking for is a text similar to the OWL1 docs...
14:51:02 [AlexPassant]
I wrote a simple proposal on the list
14:51:42 [AlexPassant]
just need to s/Wroking Draft/REC when we switch to rec.
14:51:43 [AxelPolleres]
Sandro: Alex' wording needs to be updates, that would be a problem
14:51:49 [AlexPassant]
but I'm open to other proposals
14:52:13 [AxelPolleres]
ACITON SteveH to suggest a wording for a disclaimer text for the SPARQL update member submission
14:52:27 [AxelPolleres]
ACTION: member:SteveH to suggest a wording for a disclaimer text for the SPARQL update member submission
14:52:27 [trackbot]
Sorry, bad ACTION syntax
14:52:45 [AxelPolleres]
ACTION: steveH to suggest a wording for a disclaimer text for the SPARQL update member submission
14:52:45 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-296 - to suggest a wording for a disclaimer text for the SPARQL update member submission [on Steve Harris - due 2010-08-24].
14:52:52 [AxelPolleres]
topic: AOB?
14:53:04 [Zakim]
-Chimezie_Ogbuji
14:53:05 [Zakim]
-Lee_Feigenbaum
14:53:06 [Zakim]
-bglimm
14:53:06 [Zakim]
-MattPerry
14:53:08 [Zakim]
-AlexPassant
14:53:09 [Zakim]
-Sandro
14:53:10 [Zakim]
-SteveH
14:53:10 [Zakim]
-AxelPolleres
14:53:12 [Zakim]
-kasei
14:53:13 [AxelPolleres]
hearing none, adjourned
14:53:13 [Zakim]
-OlivierCorby
14:53:24 [Zakim]
-pgearon
14:53:27 [Zakim]
-NicoM
14:53:37 [AxelPolleres]
rrsagent, make records public
14:54:02 [OlivierCorby]
OlivierCorby has left #sparql
14:54:12 [Zakim]
-Souri
14:54:14 [Zakim]
SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended
14:54:16 [Zakim]
Attendees were +44.186.528.aaaa, kasei, +44.186.528.aabb, AxelPolleres, +44.208.439.aacc, +49.911.973.4.aadd, +33.4.92.38.aaee, SteveH, OlivierCorby, +1.603.897.aagg, bglimm,
14:54:19 [Zakim]
... +1.603.897.aahh, MattPerry, Souri, NicoM, Sandro, Chimezie_Ogbuji, pgearon, +1.617.245.aaii, AlexPassant, Lee_Feigenbaum
15:21:37 [SteveH]
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