13:54:27 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #hcg
13:54:27 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/08/13-hcg-irc
13:58:47 <Zakim> HTML_CG()10:00AM has now started
13:58:53 <Zakim> +Jim_Barnett
13:58:59 <kaz> zakim, call kazuyuki-617
13:58:59 <Zakim> ok, kaz; the call is being made
13:59:00 <Zakim> +Kazuyuki
13:59:17 <ChrisL> ChrisL has joined #hcg
13:59:21 <rahul> rahul has joined #hcg
13:59:22 <kaz> zakim, who is here?
13:59:22 <Zakim> On the phone I see Jim_Barnett, Kazuyuki
13:59:23 <Zakim> On IRC I see rahul, ChrisL, RRSAgent, Zakim, kaz, plh, ed_work_, shepazu, trackbot
13:59:40 <ChrisL> rrsagent, here
13:59:40 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2010/08/13-hcg-irc#T13-59-40
13:59:58 <ChrisL> rrsagent, make logs public
14:00:19 <Zakim> +[IBM]
14:00:22 <rahul> zakim, IBM is Rahul_Akolkar
14:00:22 <Zakim> +Rahul_Akolkar; got it
14:00:43 <janina> janina has joined #hcg
14:00:51 <Bert> Bert has joined #hcg
14:00:56 <janina> zakim, call janina
14:00:56 <Zakim> ok, janina; the call is being made
14:00:58 <Zakim> +Janina
14:01:11 <rahul> zakim, who is here?
14:01:11 <Zakim> On the phone I see Jim_Barnett, Kazuyuki, Rahul_Akolkar, Janina
14:01:12 <Zakim> On IRC I see Bert, janina, rahul, ChrisL, RRSAgent, Zakim, kaz, plh, ed_work_, shepazu, trackbot
14:01:37 <Zakim> +Plh
14:01:44 <Zakim> + +39.524.9.aaaa
14:01:55 <ChrisL> zakim, +39 is me
14:01:55 <Zakim> +ChrisL; got it
14:01:58 <Zakim> +Bert
14:02:32 <ddahl> ddahl has joined #hcg
14:02:45 <ChrisL> zakim, who is here?
14:02:45 <Zakim> On the phone I see Jim_Barnett, Kazuyuki, Rahul_Akolkar, Janina, Plh, ChrisL, Bert
14:02:48 <Zakim> On IRC I see ddahl, Bert, janina, rahul, ChrisL, RRSAgent, Zakim, kaz, plh, ed_work_, shepazu, trackbot
14:03:03 <Zakim> +Debbie_Dahl
14:03:08 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
14:04:50 <Zakim> +Shepazu
14:07:09 <plh> scribeNick: plh
14:07:35 <ChrisL> slides at http://www.w3.org/2010/Talks/0813-SCXML/SCXML_101.pdf
14:07:35 <plh> Chair: Chris
14:07:57 <paulc> paulc has joined #hcg
14:08:20 <paulc> Please repeat the slides link.
14:08:23 <plh> [Outline]
14:08:43 <plh> [State Chart XML (SCXML)]
14:09:00 <plh> Nothing specific to voice xml. abstract flow control language.
14:09:27 <plh> we're defining the run time semantic
14:09:28 <ChrisL> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_diagram
14:09:44 <ChrisL> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_diagram#Harel_statechart
14:09:57 <lofton> lofton has joined #hcg
14:10:22 <plh> [SCXML features]
14:10:30 <plh> plh has changed the topic to:  http://www.w3.org/2010/Talks/0813-SCXML/SCXML_101.pdf
14:11:09 <plh> it has the concept of orthogonal and parallel state
14:11:19 <paulc> q+
14:11:55 <lofton> lofton has joined #hcg
14:12:05 <paulc> How does this relate to BPEL: http://docs.oasis-open.org/wsbpel/2.0/OS/wsbpel-v2.0-OS.html 
14:12:12 <ChrisL> ack paul
14:12:16 <plh> Paul: how does it relate to BPEL?
14:12:32 <Zakim> +Lofton_Henderson
14:12:41 <shepazu> q+ when is it appropriate to submit comments for other uses, i.e. SVG/CSS animation
14:12:50 <plh> BPEL has an underlyuing state machine. SCXML is a more powerful state machine and doesn't have the business and transaction models
14:13:01 <shepazu> q+ to ask when is it appropriate to submit comments for other uses, i.e. SVG/CSS animation
14:13:10 <plh> Paul: we have some implementations for BPEL already. why not start there?
14:13:24 <plh> We wanted something that is more real time and more generic.
14:13:36 <plh> too many business concept builtin in BPEL
14:13:37 <plh> q+
14:13:44 <plh> Paul: ok, so there is overlap
14:13:57 <plh> ... BPEL has been a standard for quite sometime
14:14:10 <ChrisL> Using State Machine to Integrate Human Activity into BPEL in Dartflow
14:14:16 <plh> ... you'll need to clearly differentiate them at some point
14:14:31 <ChrisL> Wei Shi et al Proceedings of the IEEE International Conference on Services Computing  table of contents
14:14:31 <ChrisL> Page: 517  
14:14:31 <ChrisL> Year of Publication: 2006 
14:14:38 <ChrisL> http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1174149
14:15:04 <paulc> zakim, [Microsoft] has paulc
14:15:04 <Zakim> +paulc; got it
14:16:18 <plh> Paul: BPEL is used in our workflow engine. BPEL can be used to process SOAP messages, and our software takes the BPEL description to process the messages
14:16:49 <plh> ... BPEL allow you to describe the actual execution for processing the messages.
14:16:58 <plh> ... Oracle, IBM, MS are using BPEL
14:17:14 <plh> q-
14:17:18 <plh> ack she
14:17:18 <Zakim> shepazu, you wanted to ask when is it appropriate to submit comments for other uses, i.e. SVG/CSS animation
14:19:09 <plh> Rahul: BPEL is business process centric, SCXML isn't (business, UI, network, ....)
14:19:18 <plh> ... there is JS implementation of SCXML
14:19:36 <plh> ... the state chart engine has a smaller foot print
14:20:04 <plh> [Hello World and a transition]
14:20:44 <plh> [Workflow - Collaborative Business Process Systems]
14:21:22 <plh> Rahul: we used that as a very lightweight business processor
14:21:42 <plh> ... building a contract
14:22:17 <plh> ... you can think for each action at some sort of state machine
14:23:20 <plh> [Interactive Web Documents Interaction Controllers]
14:24:02 <plh> Rahul: taking on step of the previous process
14:24:35 <plh> ... one example: tax agency. multiple tax forms
14:25:02 <plh> ... depending on the information, it puts you in a particular state
14:25:33 <plh> [Use Case: SCXML as SIP Controller]
14:26:09 <plh> skipped
14:26:40 <plh> [Data model extensibility - XML data, XPath]
14:26:57 <shepazu> (this seems to be server-side so far, I wonder if there is a client-side model?)
14:28:16 <plh> [Custom actions]
14:29:13 <ChrisL> http://commons.apache.org/scxml/
14:29:21 <plh> [Apache Commons SCXML (Java runtime)]
14:29:36 <plh> Rahul: it's open source. try, participate.
14:30:03 <plh> [Apache Commons SCXML-JS (JavaScript compiler)]
14:30:23 <paulc> FYI, open source implementation of BPEL http://www.activevos.com/community-open-source.php 
14:30:57 <shepazu> (I'm very interested in that SVG case)
14:31:03 <ChrisL> Developing a Statechart-to-ECMAScript Compiler Optimized for SVG User Interface Development for the World Wide Web
14:31:06 <plh> [Apache Commons SCXML-Eclipse (Visual Editor)]
14:31:12 <ChrisL> http://svgopen.org/2010/papers/45-Developing_a_StatecharttoECMAScript_Compiler_Optimized_for_SVG_User_Interface_Development_for_the_World_Wide_Web/index.html
14:31:34 <shepazu> q+
14:31:48 <ChrisL> ack shepazu
14:32:49 <plh> Doug: [...]
14:33:19 <ChrisL> s/[...]/is there a usable subset to get started?/
14:33:30 <plh> Rahul: the core module of SCXML with some DOM eventing would be a good start
14:33:32 <Zakim> -Rahul_Akolkar
14:33:36 <plh> [Rahul leaves]
14:33:52 <plh> Jim: we tried to make SCXML customizable.
14:34:14 <plh> ... we have defined a way for you to inject DOM events if nedded
14:34:19 <plh> s/nedded/needed/
14:34:31 <plh> ... you can define the data language to be lightweight
14:34:46 <Zakim> -Lofton_Henderson
14:34:51 <plh> ... so I think it could be done but would need to a long discussion
14:34:59 <plh> ... call or during TPAC
14:35:09 <ddahl> q+  to talk about Openstream implementation
14:35:15 <plh> Chris: a preliminary call would be good
14:35:19 <ChrisL> call before hand to make best use of the time at tpac
14:35:26 <plh> Jim: we'll be glad to meet
14:35:32 <ChrisL> q?
14:35:36 <plh> ack dd
14:35:36 <Zakim> ddahl, you wanted to talk about Openstream implementation
14:35:37 <ChrisL> ack ddahl
14:36:10 <plh> Deborah: there is an implementation in JS developed by OpenStream for their browser QMe (sp?)
14:36:16 <plh> ... only works on mobile
14:36:26 <plh> ... maybe be enough to play with
14:36:43 <plh> .... they are in the multimodal group and voice browser group
14:36:45 <ddahl> http://www.openstream.com/cueme/
14:36:52 <plh> s/QMe/cueme/
14:37:03 <paulc> I wanted to make sure that no one took my BPEL questions as anything other than me trying to figure out how this XML language relates to BPEL.
14:37:10 <plh> Jim: there is a demo case with SVG
14:37:18 <paulc> I am a firm believer in "let all the flowers bloom".
14:38:18 <shepazu> q+
14:38:27 <plh> Chris: would be good to have a separate list just for discussion related to SCXML
14:40:49 <plh> Jim: there is a couple of other open source implementations
14:41:15 <kaz> s/and voice browser group//
14:44:59 <plh> Jim: we considered in the past creating a SCXML Working Group
14:45:12 <plh> ... but overlap with VoiceXML participants is 100%
14:45:23 <plh> ... so easier to stay as-is at the moment
14:49:59 <Bert> (For the agenda: MathML3 LC is no longer upcoming. It's already PR now. :-) )
14:50:23 <plh> ACTION: Doug to find out about agenda process for TPAC
14:50:24 <trackbot> Created ACTION-59 - Find out about agenda process for TPAC [on Doug Schepers - due 2010-08-20].
14:50:35 <plh> ACTION: Jim to find possible demos for SCXML
14:50:35 <trackbot> Created ACTION-60 - Find possible demos for SCXML [on Jim Larson - due 2010-08-20].
14:51:13 <plh> Topic: Next meeting
14:51:16 <plh> Uagust 27
14:51:21 <plh> Deborah will chair
14:51:28 <plh> s/Uagust/August/
14:51:48 <ChrisL> rrsagent, make minutes
14:51:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/08/13-hcg-minutes.html ChrisL
14:51:57 <Zakim> -Bert
14:52:07 <Zakim> -Plh
14:52:20 <Zakim> -ChrisL
14:52:23 <Zakim> -Kazuyuki
14:52:25 <Zakim> -Janina
14:52:25 <Zakim> -Jim_Barnett
14:52:32 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
14:52:40 <ChrisL> Meeting: Hypertext CG call, special session on SCXML
14:52:49 <ChrisL> zakim, list attendees
14:52:49 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Jim_Barnett, Kazuyuki, Rahul_Akolkar, Janina, Plh, +39.524.9.aaaa, ChrisL, Bert, Debbie_Dahl, Shepazu, Lofton_Henderson, paulc
14:52:59 <ChrisL> rrsagent, make minutes
14:52:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/08/13-hcg-minutes.html ChrisL
14:58:25 <plh> plh has left #hcg
15:04:12 <Bert> Bert has left #hcg
15:25:16 <Zakim> -Debbie_Dahl
15:25:22 <Zakim> -Shepazu
15:25:24 <Zakim> HTML_CG()10:00AM has ended
15:25:26 <Zakim> Attendees were Jim_Barnett, Kazuyuki, Rahul_Akolkar, Janina, Plh, +39.524.9.aaaa, ChrisL, Bert, Debbie_Dahl, Shepazu, Lofton_Henderson, paulc
15:30:58 <ddahl> ddahl has left #hcg
15:35:33 <rahul> rahul has left #hcg
16:59:41 <Zakim> Zakim has left #hcg
17:19:26 <lofton> lofton has joined #hcg
17:26:43 <shepazu_> shepazu_ has joined #hcg