IRC log of pling on 2010-08-10

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:00:19 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #pling
12:00:19 [RRSAgent]
logging to
12:00:21 [tlr]
zakim, this will be pling
12:00:21 [Zakim]
ok, tlr, I see P3P_PLING()8:00AM already started
12:00:26 [tlr]
zakim, call thomas-781
12:00:26 [Zakim]
ok, tlr; the call is being made
12:00:28 [Zakim]
12:00:56 [tlr]
zakim, who is on the phone?
12:00:56 [Zakim]
On the phone I see +358.504.87aaaa, Thomas
12:01:26 [rigo]
rigo has joined #pling
12:01:41 [Zakim]
12:01:55 [rigo]
zakim, ??P1 is Rigo
12:01:55 [Zakim]
+Rigo; got it
12:02:17 [Zakim]
12:02:48 [renato]
i am dialling in now....
12:03:47 [rigo]
present+ Hannes
12:04:04 [rigo]
zakim, who is here?
12:04:04 [Zakim]
On the phone I see +358.504.87aaaa, Thomas, Rigo, Ashok_Malhotra
12:04:05 [Zakim]
On IRC I see rigo, RRSAgent, Zakim, tlr, Ashok, renato
12:04:19 [Zakim]
12:04:24 [rigo]
zakim, 87aaaa is Hannes
12:04:24 [Zakim]
sorry, rigo, I do not recognize a party named '87aaaa'
12:04:42 [rigo]
zakim, ??P3 is Renato
12:04:42 [Zakim]
+Renato; got it
12:05:07 [rigo]
zakim, +358.504.87aaaa is Hannes
12:05:07 [Zakim]
+Hannes; got it
12:06:12 [rigo]
scribenick: rigo
12:06:22 [rigo]
Scribe: Rigo
12:06:35 [rigo]
12:06:46 [rigo]
rrsagent, set log public
12:06:54 [rigo]
rrsagent, pointer?
12:06:54 [RRSAgent]
12:07:46 [rigo]
RI: is main agenda item today
12:07:56 [rigo]
...tlr will give overview
12:08:34 [rigo]
tlr: draft subject to further editing, hope to have it out in a week
12:08:59 [rigo]
...45 participants across industry, around 43 position papers
12:09:09 [rigo]
...privacy icons idea
12:09:26 [rigo]
...may fail for the same reasons as P3P
12:09:59 [rigo]
...identify the parameters that users care most about and come up with machine readable things
12:10:17 [rigo]
..others vendors reluctant, but firefox eager to implement
12:10:43 [rigo]
...other thing: data that is gathered via API from the user, parallel to geopriv
12:10:56 [rigo]
...what secondary use, how long retain
12:11:48 [rigo]
...user agent incentives, how to set the defaults, is that desirable, is it ok to leave the enforcement to legal system...
12:12:13 [rigo]
...fairly interesting research papers, also from GSMA and from Hannes (for works at IETF)
12:12:43 [rigo]
...clear that there is interest for best practices for implementation guidance for user agent
12:13:07 [rigo]
...charter an interest group that would succeed PLING and that is chartered more broadly
12:13:26 [rigo]
RI: PLING would morph into PIG
12:14:04 [rigo]
tlr: PLING chartered until feb 2011, and what focus would draw more focus into the group
12:14:26 [rigo]
...browser vendors not eager to participate in policy languages
12:14:48 [rigo]
HT: policy languages didn't go anywhere, so we should really question that
12:15:50 [rigo]
RI: how PLING can be better serving to W3C
12:16:17 [rigo]
HT: better to discontinue PLING and focus on DAP and implementation guidelines
12:16:44 [rigo]
...browser folks actually tried to derail policy languages discussion
12:17:06 [rigo]
...the browser folks aren't there yet, it is an uphill battle, nothing gets recognition
12:17:19 [rigo]
tlr: unfortunately, your perception is accurate
12:17:51 [rigo]
...geolocation implementation experience, when there was discussion of things that the spec didn't say
12:18:43 [rigo]
....and others shouting that they wouldn't have wanted in the spec things like user interface guidelines
12:19:46 [rigo]
...browser vendor folks want to be helpful
12:20:01 [Zakim]
12:20:25 [rigo]
zakim, ??P4 is David_Chadwick
12:20:25 [Zakim]
+David_Chadwick; got it
12:20:40 [renato]
Privacy Rulesets
12:20:41 [renato]
12:20:51 [Zakim]
+ +1.920.564.aabb
12:21:16 [rigo]
zakim, aabb is John
12:21:16 [Zakim]
+John; got it
12:21:43 [rigo]
RI: was there some discussions on semantics like retention for those rulesets?
12:21:51 [rigo]
12:22:45 [rigo] that a language that is put together
12:22:45 [tlr]
12:23:20 [rigo]
tlr: proposal evolved, proposed in the WG later in the week, try to break it down to 3 basic profiles
12:23:29 [rigo] frame expectations
12:24:57 [rigo]
..lengthy discussion with someone from Chrome, others comments from browsers were reluctant
12:25:32 [rigo]
RW: PrimeLife in Helsingborg reported about rulesets as a business model of selling them in software
12:25:54 [rigo]
tlr: look at URI, they want to simplify to the max, a complete different approach
12:26:35 [rigo]
HT: data handling workshop, given discussion about the previous workshop
12:27:19 [renato]
W3C Workshop on Privacy and data usage control
12:27:20 [renato]
04/05 October 2010, Boston
12:27:25 [renato]
12:28:15 [tlr]
12:29:42 [tlr]
12:29:43 [tlr]
12:30:24 [rigo]
RI: thanks tlr for summary, looking forward for report
12:30:31 [rigo]
12:31:16 [rigo]
RI: 2.2 OASIS Privacy Management Reference Model (PMRM) Technical Committee
12:31:28 [rigo]
12:31:35 [rigo]
RI: has anybody joined
12:31:42 [tlr]
s/unfortunately, your perception is accurate/discussions were indeed difficult
12:31:47 [rigo]
Ri: should we do anything about it?
12:32:01 [rigo]
HT: What are they actually doing
12:32:28 [rigo]
AM: they had a 2 hour telecon, where they spoke about reference model, very complicated model
12:33:17 [rigo]
..when you get any kind of data, you have to specify what kind of data, how long you detain it ... not very different from P3P, but may be useful to talk to them
12:36:01 [rigo]
RW: is more of competition to ISO SC 27 WG 5
12:36:32 [rigo]
HT: ISO stuff seriously underspecified
12:36:51 [rigo]
HT: is OASIS stuff publicly available?
12:37:08 [rigo]
AM: don't know, can dig out the reference model
12:38:00 [renato]
The current members:
12:38:00 [renato]
12:38:18 [rigo] down reference model, than it can be subsetted to special needs
12:39:57 [rigo]
RI: don't know if we have sufficient momentum for hte best practices
12:40:44 [rigo]
...MAWG we made proposal to include policy languages
12:40:46 [renato]
12:41:18 [rigo]
12:43:20 [rigo]
tlr: not in the last call tracking, we had some request to them, something looks like we should check
12:43:27 [rigo]
RI: confirm that we should check
12:43:45 [rigo]
.. I'll check that and make sure that they took it up
12:43:50 [tlr]
12:46:13 [tlr]
12:46:33 [rigo]
ack tlr
12:49:52 [rigo]
tlr: last call comments due 11 July, but I think we can still make a comment.
12:50:08 [tlr]
also, Creative Commons isn't a "Security Policy"?!
12:50:16 [rigo]
RI: properties ma:copyright and ma:policy are very confusing, that was our main comment
12:50:38 [rigo]
tlr: could rename copyright to ma: riightsholder
12:51:23 [rigo]
ACTION: Renato to contact MAWG and propose changes to ma:copyright definition and change "security policy" in ma:policy
12:52:16 [rigo]
tlr: liaison with geopriv is mainly done and there are two opposing models and we discussed a lot with the result to agree to disagree
12:52:26 [rigo] the item is done
12:53:25 [rigo]
12:56:32 [rigo]
12:57:23 [tlr]
12:59:14 [tlr]
13:00:30 [rigo]
13:01:34 [Zakim]
13:01:36 [Zakim]
13:03:58 [renato]
ODRL Workshop...privacy, icons, virtual goods...
13:04:05 [Zakim]
13:04:09 [rigo]
RI: Namur
13:04:26 [renato]
Social Web XG - Final Report
13:04:26 [renato]
Section on Privacy and other standards:
13:04:49 [rigo]
... social web XG is writing up final report, but very draft for the moment
13:05:02 [rigo]
...announce Polcy WG
13:05:41 [renato]
13:05:44 [rigo]
Next meeting: 14 September with invited talk from Pete Bramhal talking about EnCoRE
13:05:56 [rigo]
13:06:01 [rigo]
13:06:10 [rigo]
rrsagent, please make minutes
13:06:11 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate rigo
13:06:16 [Zakim]
13:06:17 [renato]
13:06:23 [Zakim]
13:06:26 [Zakim]
13:06:28 [Zakim]
13:06:28 [Zakim]
P3P_PLING()8:00AM has ended
13:06:30 [Zakim]
Attendees were Thomas, Rigo, Ashok_Malhotra, Renato, Hannes, David_Chadwick, +1.920.564.aabb, John
13:06:33 [renato]
thanks for scribing rigo!
13:49:44 [rigo]
zakim, bye
13:49:44 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #pling
13:49:49 [rigo]
rrsagent, bye
13:49:49 [RRSAgent]
I see 1 open action item saved in :
13:49:49 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Renato to contact MAWG and propose changes to ma:copyright definition and change "security policy" in ma:policy [1]
13:49:49 [RRSAgent]
recorded in