19:53:36 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #webfonts
19:53:36 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/08/04-webfonts-irc
19:53:38 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
19:53:38 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #webfonts
19:53:40 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 3668
19:53:40 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see IA_Fonts()4:00PM scheduled to start in 7 minutes
19:53:41 <trackbot> Meeting: WebFonts Working Group Teleconference
19:53:41 <trackbot> Date: 04 August 2010
19:53:51 <ChrisL> Chair: Vlad
19:54:30 <ChrisL> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webfonts-wg/2010Aug/0010.html
19:58:34 <Zakim> IA_Fonts()4:00PM has now started
19:58:41 <Zakim> +Vlad
19:58:47 <Vlad> Vlad has joined #webfonts
19:58:49 <sylvaing> sylvaing has joined #webfonts
19:58:52 <erik> erik has joined #webfonts
19:59:21 <Zakim> +sylvaing
19:59:49 <Zakim> +ChrisL
20:00:04 <ChrisL> Scribe: ChrisL
20:00:16 <ChrisL> zakim, who is here?
20:00:16 <Zakim> On the phone I see Vlad, sylvaing, ChrisL
20:00:18 <Zakim> On IRC I see erik, sylvaing, Vlad, Zakim, RRSAgent, ChrisL, trackbot
20:01:05 <ChrisL> rrsagent, here
20:01:05 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2010/08/04-webfonts-irc#T20-01-05
20:01:08 <John> John has joined #webfonts
20:01:17 <Zakim> + +31.18.768.aaaa
20:01:31 <ChrisL> zakim, +31 is Erik
20:01:31 <Zakim> +Erik; got it
20:01:46 <Zakim> +tal
20:02:23 <tal> tal has joined #webfonts
20:02:31 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
20:02:37 <Zakim> +John
20:02:54 <ChrisL> zakim, Microsoft holds Sergei
20:02:54 <Zakim> +Sergei; got it
20:03:06 <sergeym> sergeym has joined #webfonts
20:03:24 <jdaggett> jdaggett has joined #webfonts
20:03:39 <ChrisL> Regrets: Christopher
20:04:08 <ChrisL> zakim, who is noisy?
20:04:27 <Zakim> ChrisL, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Vlad (17%)
20:04:42 <ChrisL> Topic: Review the first public working draft
20:04:54 <ChrisL> zakim, who is here?
20:04:54 <Zakim> On the phone I see Vlad, sylvaing, ChrisL, Erik (muted), tal, [Microsoft], John
20:04:56 <Zakim> [Microsoft] has Sergei
20:04:58 <Zakim> On IRC I see jdaggett, sergeym, tal, John, erik, sylvaing, Vlad, Zakim, RRSAgent, ChrisL, trackbot
20:04:59 <Zakim> +jdaggett
20:05:36 <ChrisL> Vlad: Thanks jdaggett for reviewing the spec
20:05:46 <ChrisL> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-font/2010JulSep/0027.html
20:06:09 <Zakim> + +1.416.589.aabb
20:06:20 <ChrisL> zakim, +1 is Dave
20:06:20 <Zakim> +Dave; got it
20:06:35 <ChrisL> jdaggett: most of these are editorial
20:06:42 <ChrisL> ... two major things
20:07:34 <ChrisL> .... section 8 conformance, checksum must be correct, implication is that checksum is computed and checked, 
20:07:45 <ChrisL> ... must either correct the values or issue a warning
20:07:58 <ChrisL> ... need to be consistent, reject or warn?
20:08:35 <ChrisL> ... many checks need to happen but that is not part of woff, hapens once a font is converted
20:08:45 <ChrisL> zakim, who is talking?
20:08:56 <Zakim> ChrisL, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Vlad (9%), [Microsoft] (49%), Dave (5%)
20:09:15 <ChrisL> sergeym: validating a checksum is an additional step
20:09:41 <ChrisL> jdaggett: not clear if we can reuse the header checksum or required to recompute it
20:10:05 <ChrisL> sergeym: UA does not change table structure
20:10:29 <ChrisL> ... so the checksum is still valid
20:10:43 <ChrisL> jdaggett: wording says the tool should validate it
20:11:15 <ChrisL> Vlad: sergeym seems to be agreeing that checksum validation should not be required of UA
20:11:29 <ChrisL> resolved: UAS need not validate checksums
20:11:57 <ChrisL> action: jjonathan to clarify that checksums are not checked by a user agent
20:11:57 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - jjonathan
20:12:06 <ChrisL> action: jjonothan to clarify that checksums are not checked by a user agent
20:12:06 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - jjonothan
20:12:14 <ChrisL> action: jonothan to clarify that checksums are not checked by a user agent
20:12:14 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - jonothan
20:12:20 <ChrisL> action: jonathan to clarify that checksums are not checked by a user agent
20:12:20 <trackbot> Created ACTION-12 - Clarify that checksums are not checked by a user agent [on Jonathan Kew - due 2010-08-11].
20:12:47 <ChrisL> jdaggett: better to move the conformance requirenents into section 8, list for tools and user agents
20:13:15 <ChrisL> Vlad: yes appendices should be informative so notrmative text should be moved out of there
20:13:36 <ChrisL> ... of if it looks normative bit isnt it should be reworded
20:14:01 <ChrisL> jdaggett: structural issue, repeating similar ideas in 2 parts of a document they get out of sync over time
20:14:12 <ChrisL> jdaggett: woff processor, not defined
20:15:22 <ChrisL> ChrisL: agree, if it means UA
20:15:36 <ChrisL> jdaggett: no need to define for other than a user agent?
20:15:43 <ChrisL> ChrisL: not authoring tools?
20:16:01 <ChrisL> Vlad: encoder and decoder need to understad the same format
20:16:22 <ChrisL> jdaggett: should not say UA one place and woff processor other places
20:16:57 <ChrisL> Vlad: in general agree, but slightly broader scope. Used by tool creators for creation and consumption
20:17:27 <John> Could we have a general term such as 'WOFF client'
20:18:34 <ChrisL> ChrisL: as an example a woff validator could say if the checksums are wrong, even though a ua is not required to check them
20:18:57 <ChrisL> sylvaing: need to clearly distinguish encoders and decoders. processor could apply to both
20:19:57 <ChrisL> jdaggett: agree that sizes should be specified in bytes for example. trivial to add
20:20:19 <Zakim> +cslye
20:20:31 <ChrisL> ChrisL: should say that WOFF stands for web open fornt format
20:20:36 <cslye> cslye has joined #webfonts
20:21:38 <ChrisL> Vlad: another comment from Eric Muller partly addressed by jdaggett's edits
20:22:21 <ChrisL> ChrisL: all of Bobs concerns seemed to be addressed by John
20:22:43 <ChrisL> Vlad: there was a concern about padding that follows the last table so is not between tables
20:23:04 <Vlad> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-font/2010JulSep/0030.html
20:23:07 <ChrisL> jdaggett: current spec does not completely address it
20:23:44 <ChrisL> jdaggett: under overal lfile structure in section 2, (quotes) no extraneous data outside tha table. its too vague.
20:24:01 <ChrisL> ... proposed wording, bob replied it would allow data after the last table
20:24:17 <ChrisL> ... make change to disallow extraneous data outside the font
20:24:41 <ChrisL> jdaggett: should UAs load a font that has gaps that are more than padding
20:24:50 <ChrisL> Vlad: think the spec already says this
20:25:01 <ChrisL> jd: should be in conformance requirements
20:25:12 <ChrisL> s/jd/jdaggett/
20:25:39 <ChrisL> jdaggett: change 'between font tables' to include before and after tables too
20:26:32 <ChrisL> action: jonothan t  change conformance rwquirements to disallow extraneous data anywhere and require ua to reject a font contasining it
20:26:32 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - jonothan
20:26:42 <ChrisL> action: jonathan t  change conformance rwquirements to disallow extraneous data anywhere and require ua to reject a font contasining it
20:26:43 <trackbot> Created ACTION-13 - T  change conformance rwquirements to disallow extraneous data anywhere and require ua to reject a font contasining it [on Jonathan Kew - due 2010-08-11].
20:27:23 <ChrisL> Vlad: Eric Muller comments I responded to
20:27:37 <ChrisL> ChrisL: surprised by Eric's comments
20:27:55 <ChrisL> jdaggett: he seemed to say that everything should be in OT tables (or an extension)
20:28:29 <ChrisL> cslye: he said that metadata that is not woff specific should be inside the fotnt; talked with him about that
20:28:58 <ChrisL> ... in private discussion
20:29:28 <ChrisL> Vlad: wanted to respond to his comments right away
20:29:58 <ChrisL> Topic: Typecon 2010:
20:30:15 <ChrisL> Vlad: its in 2 weeks
20:30:36 <ChrisL> ... john suggested woff presentations better done by tal and erik
20:30:49 <ChrisL> ... program lists john as the speaker there
20:31:00 <ChrisL> erik: agreed
20:31:18 <ChrisL> Vlad: please draft something for the group to discuss
20:31:28 <ChrisL> erik: will post over the next week
20:31:47 <ChrisL> Vlad: important to get the message across, what woff does and what it is for
20:32:11 <ChrisL> Vlad: also ChrisL can you do the wg part?
20:32:16 <ChrisL> ChrisL: yes sure
20:32:37 <ChrisL> ... need to tell Tamaye about that and check its ok?
20:33:03 <ChrisL> cslye: no its ok, the panel discussion is more tightly managed. wg slot is fairly open
20:33:29 <ChrisL> ChrisL: so who is on the panel?
20:33:32 <Vlad> s/Tamaye/Tamye
20:34:01 <ChrisL> cslye: panel is brian mason, cslyye (reads from program)
20:34:49 <cslye> TypeCon webfonts panel discussion: Participants include Bryan Mason, moderator (Typekit), Christopher Slye (Adobe), Bill Davis (Ascender), Tom Phinney (Extensis), Adam Twardoch (FontLab), Raph Levien (Google), Erik van Blokland (LettError), Simon Daniels (Microsoft), Vladimir Levantovsky (Monotype Imaging), John Hudson (Tiro Typeworks), Tal Leming (Type Supply), and more.
20:34:53 <ChrisL> John: make sense for ChrisL to be on panel for w3c questions
20:35:05 <ChrisL> http://www.typecon.com/program.php
20:35:20 <ChrisL> sylvaing: session is on friday? and wg meeting tues?
20:35:30 <ChrisL> John: yes and css3 on weds
20:35:39 <ChrisL> .woff party friday night
20:36:08 <ChrisL> Topic: Planning of the F2F meeting.
20:36:24 <ChrisL> Vlad: be ready to discuss conformance requirements and testable assertions
20:36:45 <ChrisL> .... will get more details on location. 10-6pm is the time. will get room details
20:37:02 <ChrisL> Topic: WOFF publicity/promotion at Typecon
20:37:12 <ChrisL> (discussion about publicity)
20:42:49 <jfkthame_afk> jfkthame_afk has joined #webfonts
20:53:40 <ChrisL> topic: review spec for conformance and testable assertions
20:54:34 <ChrisL> ChrisL: related my experience on defining 'lossless; wrt PNG spec, might apply to WOFF too
20:54:51 <ChrisL> Vlad: fringe cases may need some adjustments
20:55:23 <ChrisL> topic: aob
20:55:49 <ChrisL> erik: doing experiments with xslt to render the metadata
20:55:55 <Zakim> -Dave
20:56:30 <ChrisL> Vlad: may be useful as informative appendix. jkew said not in spec but can be handy to make available
20:56:52 <ChrisL> ChrisL: its more illustrative
20:57:16 <ChrisL> ChrisL: erik please post a link
20:57:20 <ChrisL> erik: sure
20:57:54 <ChrisL> vlad: anything else?
21:01:14 <ChrisL> adjourned
21:01:21 <ChrisL> rrsagent, make minutes
21:01:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/08/04-webfonts-minutes.html ChrisL
21:01:22 <Zakim> -cslye
21:01:29 <cslye> cslye has left #webfonts
21:01:40 <ChrisL> zakim, list attendees
21:01:40 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Vlad, sylvaing, ChrisL, +31.18.768.aaaa, Erik, tal, John, Sergei, jdaggett, +1.416.589.aabb, Dave, cslye
21:01:44 <ChrisL> rrsagent, make minutes
21:01:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/08/04-webfonts-minutes.html ChrisL
21:01:57 <Zakim> -ChrisL
21:01:58 <Zakim> -sylvaing
21:01:58 <Zakim> -tal
21:02:00 <Zakim> -John
21:02:00 <Zakim> -Erik
21:02:01 <Zakim> -jdaggett
21:02:01 <Zakim> -Vlad
21:02:04 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
21:02:05 <Zakim> IA_Fonts()4:00PM has ended
21:02:07 <Zakim> Attendees were Vlad, sylvaing, ChrisL, +31.18.768.aaaa, Erik, tal, John, Sergei, jdaggett, +1.416.589.aabb, Dave, cslye
21:02:29 <tal> tal has left #webfonts