15:05:04 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #prov-xg
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15:05:06 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:05:06 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #prov-xg
15:05:08 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 98765
15:05:08 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see INC_PROVXG()11:00AM scheduled to start 5 minutes ago
15:05:09 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Incubator Group Teleconference
15:05:09 <trackbot> Date: 23 July 2010
15:05:12 <paolo> won't give me a line
15:05:15 <paolo> will try again]
15:05:27 <Christine> Hi Paolo. I am using the UK bridge.
15:05:39 <paolo> oh so it's you using the line! :-))
15:06:01 <YolandaGil> Paolo: remember to use the new UK number!!
15:06:05 <jcheney> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-prov/2010Jul/0023.html
15:06:18 <YolandaGil> Many thanks James!
15:06:20 <jcheney> chair: Yolanda Gil
15:06:28 <jcheney> Scribe: James Cheney
15:06:30 <paolo> Chrisitne I am dialing 0203 318 0479
15:06:34 <jcheney> ScribeNick: jcheney
15:06:43 <jcheney>  rrsagent, make logs public
15:06:57 <Christine> Yes that is the right number. I had trouble last week though and had to use the USA number
15:07:02 <YolandaGil> Paolo: I had some trouble myself, just keep trying
15:07:52 <paolo> "all circuits are busy now"... ok I will stop the nboise now 
15:08:35 <YolandaGil> Paolo: dial 0 and ask for the operator
15:08:40 <Christine> It might be worth waiting a couple more minutes
15:14:04 <jcheney> Yolanda: Discuss scenario progress first
15:14:09 <jcheney> James: No report
15:14:24 <Paulo> Paulo has joined #prov-xg
15:14:25 <jcheney> Yolanda: Business contract scenario nearing completion
15:14:31 <jcheney> ... Try to finish all by next week
15:14:34 <YolandaGil> Paolo can you call in?
15:14:53 <jcheney> Yolanda: Next item: tagging
15:15:10 <jcheney> ... Daniel absent, but doing a good job organizing tagging
15:15:30 <paolo> no
15:15:35 <paolo> stull trying
15:15:36 <YolandaGil> Paolo: can you type a brief update?
15:15:41 <paolo> oin tagging?
15:15:45 <YolandaGil> yes
15:15:46 <jcheney> ... Paolo has made spreadsheet, on google docs, but not everyone can read it.
15:15:48 <paolo> I have updated the googledoc 
15:15:56 <paolo> 65 papers tagged 
15:16:00 <YolandaGil> we just did the update of the scenarios first in the agenda, now on to tagging
15:16:02 <paolo> (lztest count today)
15:16:09 <YolandaGil> i cannot access that document, sorry
15:16:22 <paolo> havne't done much stats except that the sheet shows
15:16:30 <paolo> that the PML people have been very active :-)
15:17:00 <paolo> http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Ak69UO5fDWWpdDFsZ1J5dFQ2YmNXc3g4Rm1yMHVKblE&authkey=CKH5zZ0K&hl=en#gid=0
15:17:08 <YolandaGil> this morning the desktop app told me that there were 300+ entries and 75 had been removed on the web site
15:17:15 <Christine> Paolo, am I right in understanding that #use and #PML are the highest counts for tags (at this stage)?
15:17:21 <paolo> ok so there is the duplication issue
15:17:29 <paolo> whcih I find very annnoying but we knoew that
15:17:33 <paolo> so I will try to deal with it
15:17:44 <Paulo> we added 85+
15:17:48 <paolo> becauseI've got 200+ which is not realistic
15:17:54 <Paulo> I am not sure they are dupliucates
15:17:57 <paolo> you guys added 85 papers??
15:18:04 <Paulo> yes
15:18:10 <paolo> asll of them on PML?
15:18:16 <Paulo> no
15:18:28 <YolandaGil> my biggest concern right now is the lack of tags per scenario
15:18:28 <Paulo> some provenance papers from db community
15:18:50 <Paulo> some justification papers from proof theory
15:18:52 <jcheney> Would it make sense to "freeze" the bibliography after duplicate elim?  Or too soon?
15:19:00 <paolo> I see 36 papers are tagged #PML which is quite substantial
15:19:06 <jcheney> Yolanda: Tags need to be separated by semicolons
15:19:16 <Paulo> justification= #justification + #entailments
15:19:37 <jcheney> ... Need tags for scenarios
15:19:42 <paolo> ok I can spend a little curation time early next week
15:20:22 <paolo> for duplication cotrol and tag quality contro;
15:20:24 <paolo> control
15:20:42 <paolo> but I would agree with James that we should probably freeze the biblio
15:21:02 <jcheney> ... Has any tagging been done per scenario?
15:21:21 <jcheney> ... Want to refer to relevant work in state of art report
15:22:04 <paolo> I can't see any scenario-specific tag
15:22:19 <paolo> (and many tags have no # so there's cleanup to do already)
15:22:21 <YolandaGil> most of my papers have them :)
15:22:23 <Paulo> that is also my question
15:22:33 <YolandaGil> I also added it to the OPM paper
15:22:48 <paolo> ok sorry I see News_aggrgator
15:23:15 <paolo> and Disease_outbreak
15:23:24 <Paulo> we need not only to have tag per scenario but also to specific parts of each scenario that we may want to highlight
15:23:30 <paolo> so apologies spoke too soon
15:23:42 <jcheney> Yolanda: reading IRC comments; duplicate elimination doesn't seem to take?
15:25:02 <jcheney> ... PML tags: is this a problem?  Are these papers relevant?
15:25:05 <Paulo> i would like to relate some of our papers to the scenarios but i just don't how to do it using tags
15:25:24 <paolo> actually if Paulo added 85 papers, the numbers are nearly ok
15:25:40 <jcheney> ... Disease outbreak, other scenarios: papers by use case contributors could be tagged as relevant
15:26:42 <jcheney> ... Will remind people not present to add scenario tags
15:26:53 <YolandaGil> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/Tagging_ToDos
15:27:40 <Paulo> It has been very interesting to see the paper coverage by tags
15:27:47 <jcheney> Yolanda: Next item: Tagging todos.  Papers from ICSM/web/social media literature?  Any volunteers?
15:28:18 <Paulo> but what are the tags for those?
15:28:37 <jcheney> ... Multimedia web semantics references received, will be added/tagged;
15:28:52 <jcheney> ... Christine to add papers on watermarking?
15:29:09 <jcheney> Christine: Signed up to do references for authentication but can look into watermarking
15:29:59 <YolandaGil> Paolo: you were going to give us an example of tagging technologies (like Creative Commons)
15:31:03 <jcheney> Yolanda: Papers on query languages?
15:31:28 <paolo> right. have not done it. my week has been turned upside down. sorry
15:31:32 <jcheney> Yolanda: Citations for first scenario?
15:32:27 <Paulo> q+
15:32:48 <YolandaGil> ack Paulo
15:32:52 <YolandaGil> no problem, Paolo
15:33:27 <jcheney> Paulo: Graularity of tags?  How to be specific about open questions/issues?
15:33:57 <jcheney> ... Almost any paper could be related to a scenario
15:34:19 <jcheney> Yolanda: Use requirement labels as tags?
15:35:19 <YolandaGil> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/Analysis_of_News_Aggregator_Scenario
15:36:18 <jcheney> Yolanda: Is it hard to figure out how papers fit scenarios?
15:36:36 <jcheney> Paulo: No way to record reason a paper fits a scenario (so others can see)
15:36:46 <YolandaGil> yes, the requirements have labels, and are listed by scenario
15:37:03 <jcheney> (so we should be linking papers to scenarios with rdf, I guess)
15:37:16 <jcheney> Paulo: Tags don't capture much knowledge
15:37:38 <jcheney> Yolanda: Other subject/dimensiont tags help.
15:37:50 <jcheney> s/dimensiont/dimension/
15:38:41 <jcheney> Paulo: Is there a way to create tags that link to wiki?
15:39:34 <jcheney> Yolanda: Good question.  Paolo might know?
15:40:13 <paolo> don't think so but
15:40:27 <paolo> I would use the tags as keys into wiki pages
15:40:29 <jcheney> Yolanda: Disease outbreak papers tagged.  Any other items?
15:40:41 <paolo> so tags are not URLs if this was the question
15:40:48 <paolo> and I don't think they should be 
15:41:33 <paolo> but you can have a wiki page where you maintain a tag -> URL map if you need that
15:42:03 <paolo> that's  (tag->URL) map
15:43:12 <jcheney> James: Tagging vs writing directly?
15:43:27 <jcheney> Yolanda: Could start writing paragraphs about related work here and there.
15:43:39 <jcheney> Yolanda: Next, business contract scenario.
15:44:02 <jcheney> ... Papers on electronic medical records? Jim plans to do but hasn't yet
15:44:26 <paolo> I will have abother simple request on tagging when that's appropriate -- I can do that by email though
15:44:32 <jcheney> ... Papers on log mining, process mining relevant.  Others?
15:45:48 <jcheney> Yolanda: Will remind everyone what needs to be done
15:46:08 <jcheney> Yolanda: Last item: relevant technologies and standards
15:46:18 <YolandaGil> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/Related_Work_Across_Scenarios#Relevant_Technologies_and_Standards_for_the_Working_Group
15:47:29 <Christine> Yes, I thought this is what I was collecting papers for
15:47:54 <jcheney> ... Want to tag technologies as relevant to scenarios
15:48:15 <jcheney> ... Changeset relevance?
15:49:40 <jcheney> James: Changeset relevant to versioning, mentioned in several scenarios
15:50:23 <jcheney> Yolanda: POWDER?  Anyone know about it?
15:50:41 <jcheney> ... Named graphs?  Relevant to disease outbreak?
15:50:49 <jcheney> ... Same for SW publishing, web of trust?
15:51:18 <jcheney> ... VoID?  Open Archive?
15:53:16 <jcheney> Sam: OAI provides some things similar to named graphs (?)
15:53:43 <jcheney> Yolanda: Some technologies may not be relevant (or doesn't need to be discussed extensively)
15:53:55 <jcheney> ... Have construed provenance very broadly
15:54:33 <jcheney> ... Important now to zero in on a focused message (5-10 high payoff goals)
15:55:27 <jcheney> q+
15:55:34 <Christine> It would be useful to have this in language that is understandable for people outside the provenance area.
15:56:28 <jcheney> ... PREMIS?
15:56:43 <jcheney> Sam: PREMIS deals with digital signatures, rights - fits with news scenario
15:57:13 <jcheney> Yolanda: Please tag appropriately 
15:57:38 <jcheney> ... DOD discovery metadata, Provenir, InferenceWeb/PML tagged
15:57:55 <jcheney> ... ISO 8000, ODRL?  need to be tagged
16:01:26 <jcheney> q-
16:01:46 <jcheney> Yolanda: Identifying next steps for people on call
16:02:35 <YolandaGil> Jun: if you are not on the phone, will you be able to contribute to tagging in the coming week?  we are going around the table
16:02:50 <jcheney> Christine: Will tag auth/watermarking
16:02:55 <YolandaGil> Paolo: will you be able to help this coming week?
16:03:06 <jcheney> (did everyone else get cut off or just me?)
16:03:18 <jcheney> James: Suggest focusing on 1-2 things
16:03:23 <Christine> I'm still online.
16:03:38 <jcheney> Paulo: News aggregator similar to some work done on PML.
16:05:10 <Christine> James are you online?
16:05:35 <jcheney> back online now
16:05:57 <paolo> it's e-science deadline week but I will try
16:06:22 <jcheney> Sam: Participating in mappings; slow progress
16:06:38 <jcheney> Yolanda: Will follow up on tagging todos, writing paragraphs.  Adjourned.
16:07:08 <jcheney> rrsagent, set log public
16:07:13 <jcheney> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:07:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/07/23-prov-xg-minutes.html jcheney
16:07:18 <jcheney> rrsagent, end telecon
16:07:18 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'end telecon', jcheney.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
16:07:23 <jcheney> rrsagent, end telcon
16:07:23 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'end telcon', jcheney.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
16:07:36 <jcheney> trackbot, end telcon
16:07:36 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:07:36 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
16:07:37 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:07:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/07/23-prov-xg-minutes.html trackbot
16:07:38 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
16:07:38 <RRSAgent> I see no action items