IRC log of prov-xg on 2010-07-23

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:05:04 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #prov-xg
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/07/23-prov-xg-irc
15:05:06 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
15:05:06 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #prov-xg
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Zakim, this will be 98765
15:05:08 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see INC_PROVXG()11:00AM scheduled to start 5 minutes ago
15:05:09 [trackbot]
Meeting: Provenance Incubator Group Teleconference
15:05:09 [trackbot]
Date: 23 July 2010
15:05:12 [paolo]
won't give me a line
15:05:15 [paolo]
will try again]
15:05:27 [Christine]
Hi Paolo. I am using the UK bridge.
15:05:39 [paolo]
oh so it's you using the line! :-))
15:06:01 [YolandaGil]
Paolo: remember to use the new UK number!!
15:06:05 [jcheney]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-prov/2010Jul/0023.html
15:06:18 [YolandaGil]
Many thanks James!
15:06:20 [jcheney]
chair: Yolanda Gil
15:06:28 [jcheney]
Scribe: James Cheney
15:06:30 [paolo]
Chrisitne I am dialing 0203 318 0479
15:06:34 [jcheney]
ScribeNick: jcheney
15:06:43 [jcheney]
rrsagent, make logs public
15:06:57 [Christine]
Yes that is the right number. I had trouble last week though and had to use the USA number
15:07:02 [YolandaGil]
Paolo: I had some trouble myself, just keep trying
15:07:52 [paolo]
"all circuits are busy now"... ok I will stop the nboise now
15:08:35 [YolandaGil]
Paolo: dial 0 and ask for the operator
15:08:40 [Christine]
It might be worth waiting a couple more minutes
15:14:04 [jcheney]
Yolanda: Discuss scenario progress first
15:14:09 [jcheney]
James: No report
15:14:24 [Paulo]
Paulo has joined #prov-xg
15:14:25 [jcheney]
Yolanda: Business contract scenario nearing completion
15:14:31 [jcheney]
... Try to finish all by next week
15:14:34 [YolandaGil]
Paolo can you call in?
15:14:53 [jcheney]
Yolanda: Next item: tagging
15:15:10 [jcheney]
... Daniel absent, but doing a good job organizing tagging
15:15:30 [paolo]
no
15:15:35 [paolo]
stull trying
15:15:36 [YolandaGil]
Paolo: can you type a brief update?
15:15:41 [paolo]
oin tagging?
15:15:45 [YolandaGil]
yes
15:15:46 [jcheney]
... Paolo has made spreadsheet, on google docs, but not everyone can read it.
15:15:48 [paolo]
I have updated the googledoc
15:15:56 [paolo]
65 papers tagged
15:16:00 [YolandaGil]
we just did the update of the scenarios first in the agenda, now on to tagging
15:16:02 [paolo]
(lztest count today)
15:16:09 [YolandaGil]
i cannot access that document, sorry
15:16:22 [paolo]
havne't done much stats except that the sheet shows
15:16:30 [paolo]
that the PML people have been very active :-)
15:17:00 [paolo]
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Ak69UO5fDWWpdDFsZ1J5dFQ2YmNXc3g4Rm1yMHVKblE&authkey=CKH5zZ0K&hl=en#gid=0
15:17:08 [YolandaGil]
this morning the desktop app told me that there were 300+ entries and 75 had been removed on the web site
15:17:15 [Christine]
Paolo, am I right in understanding that #use and #PML are the highest counts for tags (at this stage)?
15:17:21 [paolo]
ok so there is the duplication issue
15:17:29 [paolo]
whcih I find very annnoying but we knoew that
15:17:33 [paolo]
so I will try to deal with it
15:17:44 [Paulo]
we added 85+
15:17:48 [paolo]
becauseI've got 200+ which is not realistic
15:17:54 [Paulo]
I am not sure they are dupliucates
15:17:57 [paolo]
you guys added 85 papers??
15:18:04 [Paulo]
yes
15:18:10 [paolo]
asll of them on PML?
15:18:16 [Paulo]
no
15:18:28 [YolandaGil]
my biggest concern right now is the lack of tags per scenario
15:18:28 [Paulo]
some provenance papers from db community
15:18:50 [Paulo]
some justification papers from proof theory
15:18:52 [jcheney]
Would it make sense to "freeze" the bibliography after duplicate elim? Or too soon?
15:19:00 [paolo]
I see 36 papers are tagged #PML which is quite substantial
15:19:06 [jcheney]
Yolanda: Tags need to be separated by semicolons
15:19:16 [Paulo]
justification= #justification + #entailments
15:19:37 [jcheney]
... Need tags for scenarios
15:19:42 [paolo]
ok I can spend a little curation time early next week
15:20:22 [paolo]
for duplication cotrol and tag quality contro;
15:20:24 [paolo]
control
15:20:42 [paolo]
but I would agree with James that we should probably freeze the biblio
15:21:02 [jcheney]
... Has any tagging been done per scenario?
15:21:21 [jcheney]
... Want to refer to relevant work in state of art report
15:22:04 [paolo]
I can't see any scenario-specific tag
15:22:19 [paolo]
(and many tags have no # so there's cleanup to do already)
15:22:21 [YolandaGil]
most of my papers have them :)
15:22:23 [Paulo]
that is also my question
15:22:33 [YolandaGil]
I also added it to the OPM paper
15:22:48 [paolo]
ok sorry I see News_aggrgator
15:23:15 [paolo]
and Disease_outbreak
15:23:24 [Paulo]
we need not only to have tag per scenario but also to specific parts of each scenario that we may want to highlight
15:23:30 [paolo]
so apologies spoke too soon
15:23:42 [jcheney]
Yolanda: reading IRC comments; duplicate elimination doesn't seem to take?
15:25:02 [jcheney]
... PML tags: is this a problem? Are these papers relevant?
15:25:05 [Paulo]
i would like to relate some of our papers to the scenarios but i just don't how to do it using tags
15:25:24 [paolo]
actually if Paulo added 85 papers, the numbers are nearly ok
15:25:40 [jcheney]
... Disease outbreak, other scenarios: papers by use case contributors could be tagged as relevant
15:26:42 [jcheney]
... Will remind people not present to add scenario tags
15:26:53 [YolandaGil]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/Tagging_ToDos
15:27:40 [Paulo]
It has been very interesting to see the paper coverage by tags
15:27:47 [jcheney]
Yolanda: Next item: Tagging todos. Papers from ICSM/web/social media literature? Any volunteers?
15:28:18 [Paulo]
but what are the tags for those?
15:28:37 [jcheney]
... Multimedia web semantics references received, will be added/tagged;
15:28:52 [jcheney]
... Christine to add papers on watermarking?
15:29:09 [jcheney]
Christine: Signed up to do references for authentication but can look into watermarking
15:29:59 [YolandaGil]
Paolo: you were going to give us an example of tagging technologies (like Creative Commons)
15:31:03 [jcheney]
Yolanda: Papers on query languages?
15:31:28 [paolo]
right. have not done it. my week has been turned upside down. sorry
15:31:32 [jcheney]
Yolanda: Citations for first scenario?
15:32:27 [Paulo]
q+
15:32:48 [YolandaGil]
ack Paulo
15:32:52 [YolandaGil]
no problem, Paolo
15:33:27 [jcheney]
Paulo: Graularity of tags? How to be specific about open questions/issues?
15:33:57 [jcheney]
... Almost any paper could be related to a scenario
15:34:19 [jcheney]
Yolanda: Use requirement labels as tags?
15:35:19 [YolandaGil]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/Analysis_of_News_Aggregator_Scenario
15:36:18 [jcheney]
Yolanda: Is it hard to figure out how papers fit scenarios?
15:36:36 [jcheney]
Paulo: No way to record reason a paper fits a scenario (so others can see)
15:36:46 [YolandaGil]
yes, the requirements have labels, and are listed by scenario
15:37:03 [jcheney]
(so we should be linking papers to scenarios with rdf, I guess)
15:37:16 [jcheney]
Paulo: Tags don't capture much knowledge
15:37:38 [jcheney]
Yolanda: Other subject/dimensiont tags help.
15:37:50 [jcheney]
s/dimensiont/dimension/
15:38:41 [jcheney]
Paulo: Is there a way to create tags that link to wiki?
15:39:34 [jcheney]
Yolanda: Good question. Paolo might know?
15:40:13 [paolo]
don't think so but
15:40:27 [paolo]
I would use the tags as keys into wiki pages
15:40:29 [jcheney]
Yolanda: Disease outbreak papers tagged. Any other items?
15:40:41 [paolo]
so tags are not URLs if this was the question
15:40:48 [paolo]
and I don't think they should be
15:41:33 [paolo]
but you can have a wiki page where you maintain a tag -> URL map if you need that
15:42:03 [paolo]
that's (tag->URL) map
15:43:12 [jcheney]
James: Tagging vs writing directly?
15:43:27 [jcheney]
Yolanda: Could start writing paragraphs about related work here and there.
15:43:39 [jcheney]
Yolanda: Next, business contract scenario.
15:44:02 [jcheney]
... Papers on electronic medical records? Jim plans to do but hasn't yet
15:44:26 [paolo]
I will have abother simple request on tagging when that's appropriate -- I can do that by email though
15:44:32 [jcheney]
... Papers on log mining, process mining relevant. Others?
15:45:48 [jcheney]
Yolanda: Will remind everyone what needs to be done
15:46:08 [jcheney]
Yolanda: Last item: relevant technologies and standards
15:46:18 [YolandaGil]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/Related_Work_Across_Scenarios#Relevant_Technologies_and_Standards_for_the_Working_Group
15:47:29 [Christine]
Yes, I thought this is what I was collecting papers for
15:47:54 [jcheney]
... Want to tag technologies as relevant to scenarios
15:48:15 [jcheney]
... Changeset relevance?
15:49:40 [jcheney]
James: Changeset relevant to versioning, mentioned in several scenarios
15:50:23 [jcheney]
Yolanda: POWDER? Anyone know about it?
15:50:41 [jcheney]
... Named graphs? Relevant to disease outbreak?
15:50:49 [jcheney]
... Same for SW publishing, web of trust?
15:51:18 [jcheney]
... VoID? Open Archive?
15:53:16 [jcheney]
Sam: OAI provides some things similar to named graphs (?)
15:53:43 [jcheney]
Yolanda: Some technologies may not be relevant (or doesn't need to be discussed extensively)
15:53:55 [jcheney]
... Have construed provenance very broadly
15:54:33 [jcheney]
... Important now to zero in on a focused message (5-10 high payoff goals)
15:55:27 [jcheney]
q+
15:55:34 [Christine]
It would be useful to have this in language that is understandable for people outside the provenance area.
15:56:28 [jcheney]
... PREMIS?
15:56:43 [jcheney]
Sam: PREMIS deals with digital signatures, rights - fits with news scenario
15:57:13 [jcheney]
Yolanda: Please tag appropriately
15:57:38 [jcheney]
... DOD discovery metadata, Provenir, InferenceWeb/PML tagged
15:57:55 [jcheney]
... ISO 8000, ODRL? need to be tagged
16:01:26 [jcheney]
q-
16:01:46 [jcheney]
Yolanda: Identifying next steps for people on call
16:02:35 [YolandaGil]
Jun: if you are not on the phone, will you be able to contribute to tagging in the coming week? we are going around the table
16:02:50 [jcheney]
Christine: Will tag auth/watermarking
16:02:55 [YolandaGil]
Paolo: will you be able to help this coming week?
16:03:06 [jcheney]
(did everyone else get cut off or just me?)
16:03:18 [jcheney]
James: Suggest focusing on 1-2 things
16:03:23 [Christine]
I'm still online.
16:03:38 [jcheney]
Paulo: News aggregator similar to some work done on PML.
16:05:10 [Christine]
James are you online?
16:05:35 [jcheney]
back online now
16:05:57 [paolo]
it's e-science deadline week but I will try
16:06:22 [jcheney]
Sam: Participating in mappings; slow progress
16:06:38 [jcheney]
Yolanda: Will follow up on tagging todos, writing paragraphs. Adjourned.
16:07:08 [jcheney]
rrsagent, set log public
16:07:13 [jcheney]
rrsagent, draft minutes
16:07:13 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/07/23-prov-xg-minutes.html jcheney
16:07:18 [jcheney]
rrsagent, end telecon
16:07:18 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'end telecon', jcheney. Try /msg RRSAgent help
16:07:23 [jcheney]
rrsagent, end telcon
16:07:23 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'end telcon', jcheney. Try /msg RRSAgent help
16:07:36 [jcheney]
trackbot, end telcon
16:07:36 [trackbot]
Zakim, list attendees
16:07:36 [Zakim]
sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
16:07:37 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:07:37 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/07/23-prov-xg-minutes.html trackbot
16:07:38 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, bye
16:07:38 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items