16:01:50 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #html-wg
16:01:50 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/07/22-html-wg-irc
16:01:52 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
16:01:52 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #html-wg
16:01:53 <janina> janina has joined #html-wg
16:01:54 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be HTML
16:01:54 <Zakim> HTML matches both WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM and HTML_WG()12:00PM
16:01:55 <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Weekly Teleconference
16:01:55 <trackbot> Date: 22 July 2010
16:02:03 <rubys> zakim, this will be html_wg
16:02:03 <Zakim> ok, rubys, I see HTML_WG()12:00PM already started
16:02:09 <janina> zakim, call janina
16:02:10 <Zakim> ok, janina; the call is being made
16:02:10 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
16:02:11 <Zakim> +Plh
16:02:13 <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
16:02:18 <mjs> good morning
16:02:23 <paulc> zakim, [Microsoft] has paulc
16:02:23 <Zakim> +paulc; got it
16:02:30 <adrianba> zakim, [Microsoft.a] has adrianba
16:02:30 <Zakim> +adrianba; got it
16:02:45 <paulc> paulc is on mute
16:02:45 <Zakim> +Sam
16:02:47 <adrianba> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2010JulSep/0006.html
16:02:48 <pimpbot> Title: {agenda} HTML WG telecon 2010-07-22 from Maciej Stachowiak on 2010-07-21 (public-html-wg-announce@w3.org from July to September 2010) (at lists.w3.org)
16:02:57 <adrianba> ScribeNick: adrianba
16:03:00 <adrianba> Scribe: Adrian Bateman
16:03:02 <Zakim> + +1.425.214.aaaa
16:03:05 <adrianba> Chair: Maciej Stachowiak
16:03:18 <adrianba> Regrets: Eliot_Graff, Kris_Krueger
16:03:24 <janina> zakim, drop janina
16:03:24 <Zakim> sorry, janina, I do not see a party named 'janina'
16:03:30 <janina> zakim, call janina
16:03:30 <Zakim> ok, janina; the call is being made
16:03:32 <Zakim> +Janina
16:03:35 <MikeSmith> Zakim, call Mike
16:03:35 <Zakim> ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
16:03:36 <Zakim> + +1.415.595.aabb
16:03:36 <Zakim> +Mike
16:04:49 <stanmanoski> stanmanoski has joined #html-wg
16:05:43 <adrianba> TOPIC: ACTION items due by Thursday, July 22
16:05:51 <adrianba> mjs: there are none
16:05:59 <adrianba> TOPIC: New Issues This Week
16:06:03 <adrianba> mjs: there are none
16:06:09 <adrianba> TOPIC: Working Group decisions
16:06:23 <adrianba> ISSUE-95?
16:06:23 <trackbot> ISSUE-95 -- Remove/Discard the Hidden Attribute -- closed
16:06:23 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/95
16:06:25 <pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-95 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
16:06:25 <stanmanoski> stanmanoski has joined #html-wg
16:06:30 <adrianba> mjs: just published decision
16:06:34 <mjs> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Jul/0148.html
16:06:36 <pimpbot> Title: Working Group Decision on ISSUE-95 hidden from Maciej Stachowiak on 2010-07-21 (public-html@w3.org from July 2010) (at lists.w3.org)
16:06:42 <Zakim> + +1.971.998.aacc
16:06:56 <adrianba> mjs: 4 completed surveys remaining
16:07:04 <Dzung_Tran> Dzung_Tran has joined #html-wg
16:07:06 <adrianba> ...chairs are working on further decisions
16:07:09 <adrianba> ISSUE-30?
16:07:09 <trackbot> ISSUE-30 -- Should HTML 5 include a longdesc attribute for images -- open
16:07:09 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/30
16:07:10 <pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-30 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
16:07:13 <adrianba> ISSUE-88?
16:07:13 <trackbot> ISSUE-88 -- Should meta/@content allow a list of languages instead of just a single language? -- open
16:07:13 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/88
16:07:14 <pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-88 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
16:07:16 <adrianba> ISSUE-96?
16:07:16 <trackbot> ISSUE-96 -- Remove/Discard the Progress Element -- open
16:07:16 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/96
16:07:18 <pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-96 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
16:07:19 <adrianba> ISSUE-97?
16:07:20 <trackbot> ISSUE-97 -- Remove/Discard the Meter Element -- open
16:07:22 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/97
16:07:23 <pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-97 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
16:07:35 <adrianba> mjs: any questions or comments on either the decision or the remaining issues?
16:07:52 <adrianba> TOPIC: Items Closing This Week
16:08:06 <adrianba> ISSUE-32?
16:08:06 <trackbot> ISSUE-32 -- how to provide a summary of a table, e.g. for unsighted navigation? -- open
16:08:06 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/32
16:08:07 <pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-32 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
16:08:18 <adrianba> mjs: call for alternate proposals closing jul 23
16:08:28 <adrianba> ...we did get one alternate proposal submitted already
16:08:36 <adrianba> ...so the issue won't be resolved automatically
16:08:37 <pimpbot> changes: sam: Capture another change proposal for issue-74 <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2010Jul/0063.html>
16:08:48 <adrianba> ...still time for something else to be submitted
16:09:03 <adrianba> ...one interesting thing: we don't have any proposals defending the current state
16:09:09 <adrianba> ...both proposals involve changes
16:09:11 <stanmanoski> stanmanoski has joined #html-wg
16:09:15 <adrianba> ...any questions?
16:09:31 <adrianba> TOPIC: Items Closing Next Week
16:09:38 <adrianba> mjs: two for next week
16:09:41 <bryan_sullivan> bryan_sullivan has joined #html-wg
16:09:42 <adrianba> ISSUE-74?
16:09:42 <trackbot> ISSUE-74 -- How accessibility works for <canvas> is unclear. -- open
16:09:42 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/74
16:09:43 <pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-74 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
16:09:47 <adrianba> ISSUE-105?
16:09:47 <trackbot> ISSUE-105 -- allow image maps on the canvas element -- open
16:09:47 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/105
16:09:48 <pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-105 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
16:10:00 <adrianba> mjs: these are related issues about possible changes to canvas for a11y
16:10:19 <adrianba> ...both due jul 30
16:10:33 <adrianba> ...chairs decided two issues should be resolved together because they overlap
16:10:49 <janina> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/Map4NotAdom
16:10:50 <pimpbot> Title: ChangeProposals/Map4NotAdom - HTML WG Wiki (at www.w3.org)
16:10:52 <adrianba> janina: there is a third proposal that we were hoping would come forward
16:11:02 <adrianba> ...this is an imagemap based proposal
16:11:11 <adrianba> ...a11y tf believes that they can be unified
16:11:17 <adrianba> ...but the work hasn't been done yet
16:11:29 <adrianba> ...we believe we can and will turn this into a single proposal
16:11:34 <paulc> http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html#ISSUE-074 has been updated with Charles's proposal.
16:11:35 <pimpbot> Title: Change Proposal Status (at dev.w3.org)
16:11:44 <adrianba> ...there have also been discussions with Ian about caret
16:11:59 <adrianba> mjs: okay, so charles' proposal has been submitted and is recorded on status page
16:12:03 <adrianba> ...chairs are aware of it
16:12:19 <adrianba> ...if there are further changes to reconcile it with the other proposals we welcome that
16:12:31 <adrianba> ...but currently it counters the other proposals
16:12:32 <Zakim> + +1.732.859.aadd
16:12:43 <adrianba> paulc: i think the community wants both techniques available
16:12:50 <adrianba> janina: yes, that would be optimal
16:13:19 <adrianba> mjs: 105 suggests adding usemap, charles other proposal suggests only this
16:13:34 <adrianba> mjs: we will sort this out when we get to the end of the submission process
16:13:50 <adrianba> mjs: any other comments?
16:13:56 <adrianba> TOPIC: New Surveys This Week
16:14:09 <adrianba> mjs: chairs have posted two new surveys for 3 issues
16:14:12 <adrianba> ISSUE-4?
16:14:12 <trackbot> ISSUE-4 -- HTML Versioning and DOCTYPEs -- open
16:14:12 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/4
16:14:13 <pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-4 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
16:14:15 <adrianba> ISSUE-84?
16:14:15 <trackbot> ISSUE-84 -- Should spec discourage use of "legacy" doctypes? -- open
16:14:15 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/84
16:14:18 <pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-84 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
16:14:22 <wcarr> wcarr has joined #html-wg
16:14:30 <adrianba> mjs: one survey for 4 and 84 - identical change proposals exist
16:14:36 <Zakim> +Matt_May
16:14:43 <Martijnc> Martijnc has joined #html-wg
16:14:43 <adrianba> ...this is about whether to extend valid doctypes or leave as is
16:14:57 <Zakim> +Laura_Carlson
16:15:00 <adrianba> ...encourage WG members to review the survey and log strong objections if appropriate
16:15:08 <adrianba> ISSUE-101?
16:15:08 <trackbot> ISSUE-101 -- Spec reference for US-ASCII -- open
16:15:08 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/101
16:15:09 <pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-101 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
16:15:13 <Laura> Laura has joined #html-wg
16:15:22 <adrianba> mjs: the other survey is on issue-101 about how to reference the ascii charset in the specs
16:16:03 <adrianba> mjs: any comments?
16:17:06 <adrianba> TOPIC: Task Force Reports - Accessibility Task Force
16:17:26 <adrianba> mjs: two specific sub-topics we'd like updates on and then anything else
16:17:33 <adrianba> ...issue-9 and requirements document
16:17:36 <adrianba> ...aria roles
16:17:58 <adrianba> janina: aria mapping i expect tf will formall vote next thurs to forward to WG
16:18:09 <adrianba> ...the hard work is done, they are tweaking the rationale language
16:18:26 <adrianba> ...the rationale is important and they want this to be succinctly stated
16:18:29 <janina> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/ARIAinHTML5
16:18:30 <pimpbot> Title: ChangeProposals/ARIAinHTML5 - HTML WG Wiki (at www.w3.org)
16:18:41 <adrianba> ...expect to be forwarded at end of next week
16:18:48 <adrianba> ...media is making good progress
16:19:03 <adrianba> ...still tweaking edits to requirements document - will be done by tomorrow
16:19:14 <adrianba> ...want to slip to monday to allow weekend for review
16:19:21 <adrianba> ...before getting feedback from the WG
16:19:42 <adrianba> ...beyond work on user requirements, we've been making good progress in the media sub-team on the implications
16:19:54 <adrianba> ...identified some gaps outside the scope of a11y tf
16:20:04 <adrianba> ...will raise back to the WG
16:20:18 <sjm> sjm has joined #html-wg
16:20:19 <adrianba> ...for example, sync points and playing multiple streams
16:20:33 <adrianba> ...not currently provided in the spec but we believe needed for a11y and media
16:20:46 <adrianba> ...list will be ready in about 2 weeks when we make the next TF report
16:21:13 <adrianba> ...understand that w3m may be looking at finding resources to help
16:21:43 <adrianba> ...could give more examples of gaps if you like
16:21:49 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:21:58 <adrianba> mjs: more examples is fine but we could also wait until the report
16:22:17 <adrianba> janina: i think the biggest issue will be sync - how to keep multiple files synchronised
16:22:18 <cyns> cyns has joined #html-wg
16:22:39 <adrianba> ...there are others, like the device discovery issue and be able to direct one stream to one device and one to another
16:22:50 <adrianba> ...this is lower priority but we'd like to see this addressed
16:23:16 <adrianba> ...looking at three types to consider primary resource and alternative rendition
16:23:31 <adrianba> ...alternative might be text document with styling or some kind of video or some kind of audio
16:23:40 <adrianba> ...might be a combination that needs to stay in sync
16:24:15 <adrianba> ...some of this might be OS specific but being able to hook into that in a standardised way
16:24:32 <adrianba> ...slowly making progress on drag and drop
16:24:38 <adrianba> ...this is one of the remaining issues
16:24:50 <adrianba> ...one other large area we need to address
16:25:09 <adrianba> ...yesterday PF forwarded requirements to TF for accesskey 
16:25:18 <adrianba> ...asked to work on recommendations for these requirements
16:25:23 <adrianba> mjs: any questions?
16:25:38 <adrianba> TOPIC: Task Force Reports - Testing Task Force
16:25:41 <adrianba> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2010JulSep/0007.html
16:25:43 <pimpbot> Title: RE: {agenda} HTML WG telecon 2010-07-22 from Kris Krueger on 2010-07-22 (public-html-wg-announce@w3.org from July to September 2010) (at lists.w3.org)
16:25:50 <adrianba> TOPIC: Other Business
16:26:18 <Zakim> -Laura_Carlson
16:26:36 <adrianba> mjs: decision policy update
16:26:55 <adrianba> ...chairs would like to note that we originally planned this for jul 15 but didn't have all issues resolved by that time
16:27:00 <adrianba> ...working on a revised target
16:27:09 <adrianba> ...but don't have anything immediate to report
16:27:19 <adrianba> ...we have reviewed and discussed all the bugs
16:27:27 <adrianba> mjs: any other business?
16:27:45 <adrianba> TOPIC: Scribe for next meeting
16:27:58 <adrianba> mjs: does anyone want to volunteer for next week?
16:28:07 <rubys> I'll scribe
16:28:09 <paulc> Paul will be chairing next week.
16:28:23 <adrianba> TOPIC: Adjournment
16:28:26 <Zakim> - +1.425.214.aaaa
16:28:27 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
16:28:27 <Zakim> - +1.732.859.aadd
16:28:29 <Zakim> - +1.971.998.aacc
16:28:30 <Zakim> -Matt_May
16:28:30 <Zakim> -Radhika_Roy
16:28:30 <adrianba> mjs: see you all next week
16:28:34 <Zakim> - +1.415.595.aabb
16:28:35 <Zakim> -Sam
16:28:35 <Zakim> -Janina
16:28:36 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
16:28:38 <janina> janina has left #html-wg
16:28:43 <Zakim> -[Microsoft.a]
16:28:55 <Zakim> -Plh
16:28:59 <adrianba> rrsagent, make minutes
16:28:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/07/22-html-wg-minutes.html adrianba
16:29:18 <MikeSmith> Zakim, drop Mike
16:29:18 <Zakim> Mike is being disconnected
16:29:19 <Zakim> HTML_WG()12:00PM has ended
16:29:21 <Zakim> Attendees were Radhika_Roy, Plh, paulc, adrianba, Sam, +1.425.214.aaaa, Janina, +1.415.595.aabb, Mike, +1.971.998.aacc, +1.732.859.aadd, Matt_May, Laura_Carlson, [IPcaller]
16:30:10 <adrianba> rrsagent, make minutes
16:30:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/07/22-html-wg-minutes.html adrianba
16:30:11 <pimpbot> Title: HTML Weekly Teleconference -- 22 Jul 2010 (at www.w3.org)
16:36:54 <pimpbot> planet: A Minimal HTML5 Document <11http://www.brucelawson.co.uk/2010/a-minimal-html5-document/>
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18:37:27 <pimpbot> planet: Dojo 1.5 is Out and it’s Feature Packed! <11http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/ajaxian/~3/8e2PPSSbB2w/dojo-1-5-is-out-and-its-feature-packed>
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19:13:36 <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 10226] New: Typo: "Updates the current entry in the session histor to have..." s/histor/history/ --@miketaylr <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Jul/0390.html>
19:20:38 <mjs> mjs has joined #html-wg
19:39:41 <pimpbot> changes: websocket; hixie: Make WebSocket's garbage collection behaviour a little less detectable and more intuitive. (whatwg r5184) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2010Jul/0064.html>
19:45:43 <mjs> mjs has joined #html-wg
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20:09:51 <pimpbot> changes: websocket; hixie: Make the cookies set by a WebSocket server get set sync with the 'open' event and not get set if the handshake fails. (whatwg r5186) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2010Jul/0065.html>
20:13:53 <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 10227] New: It'd be nice to have a collected IDL in an appendix. <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Jul/0391.html>
20:39:59 <pimpbot> changes: websocket; hixie: Make WebSocket's garbage collection behaviour wait for queued data. (whatwg r5189) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2010Jul/0067.html> 4** mike: added spec links for all forms attributes <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2010Jul/0066.html>
21:07:43 <mjs> mjs has joined #html-wg
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23:10:33 <pimpbot> changes: hixie: Ensure <video> controls don't overlap captions. (whatwg r5190) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2010Jul/0068.html>
23:14:34 <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 10228] write-neutralized is a horrible, horrible name <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Jul/0393.html> 4** [Bug 10228] New: write-neutralized is a horrible, horrible name <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Jul/0392.html>