20:00:15 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #svg
20:00:15 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-irc
20:00:17 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
20:00:17 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #svg
20:00:19 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
20:00:19 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see GA_SVGWG()4:00PM scheduled to start now
20:00:20 <trackbot> Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
20:00:20 <trackbot> Date: 20 July 2010
20:00:37 <Tav> Tav has joined #svg
20:00:38 <Zakim> GA_SVGWG()4:00PM has now started
20:00:45 <Zakim> +??P0
20:00:50 <ed> Zakim, ?? is m
20:00:50 <Zakim> +m; got it
20:02:59 <ed> Zakim, m is ed
20:02:59 <Zakim> +ed; got it
20:03:58 <Zakim> + +33.9.53.77.aaaa
20:05:04 <shepazu> minutes
20:06:41 <anthony> anthony has joined #svg
20:06:46 <ed> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010JulSep/0047.html + http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010JulSep/0048.html
20:07:18 <Zakim> +??P2
20:07:30 <anthony> Zakim, ??P2 is me
20:07:30 <Zakim> +anthony; got it
20:08:42 <ed> regrets: CL
20:10:23 <ed> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Paris-2010-F2F
20:10:29 <ed> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/19480/f2fParis2010/
20:11:21 <Zakim> + +1.919.824.aabb
20:13:20 <ed> ACTION: ed to fix broken images in 1.1F2/images (commit with -kb flag)
20:13:20 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2825 - Fix broken images in 1.1F2/images (commit with -kb flag) [on Erik Dahlström - due 2010-07-27].
20:15:49 <ed> topic: SVG 1.1F2 LC comments
20:16:29 <ed> Zakim, who is here?
20:16:29 <Zakim> On the phone I see ed, +33.9.53.77.aaaa, anthony, +1.919.824.aabb
20:16:31 <Zakim> On IRC I see anthony, Tav, Zakim, RRSAgent, ed, f1lt3r, shepazu, trackbot, anthony_w, karl, ed_work
20:16:48 <ed> Zakim, +33 is tav
20:16:48 <Zakim> +tav; got it
20:16:58 <ed> Zakim, +1 is shepazu
20:16:58 <Zakim> +shepazu; got it
20:19:09 <Zakim> -shepazu
20:19:44 <ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010JulSep/0042.html
20:20:04 <ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010JulSep/0043.html
20:20:12 <ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010JulSep/0045.html
20:20:53 <Zakim> +shepazu
20:21:15 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
20:21:51 <pdengler> pdengler has joined #svg
20:22:49 <pdengler> scribenick: pdengler
20:27:55 <pdengler> pdengler: CSS defined properties (e.g. 'font-size') must follow CSS syntax and thus require units for non-zero <length> values. See 6.1 for a list of CSS defined properties
20:28:11 <pdengler> pdengler: This is the proposed change of language correct?
20:28:21 <Zakim> -shepazu
20:28:44 <Zakim> +shepazu
20:29:01 <pdengler> pdengler has joined #svg
20:29:31 <pdengler> ed: Not a problem going to a property for x and y
20:31:00 <pdengler> shepazu: When using attributes use SVG unit values, when using CSS use unit values
20:31:08 <pdengler> ed: not sure this is what browers do
20:31:19 <pdengler> Tav: Not sure if this is what we are saying
20:31:30 <ed> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/types-basic-02-f.svg
20:31:47 <pdengler> pdengler has joined #svg
20:33:48 <pdengler> shepazu: Need to coordinate w/ CSS working group
20:34:04 <pdengler> shepazu: Take HTML approach that CSS working group needs to reasses the issue
20:34:18 <pdengler> shepazu: Need to do with the Fx task force 
20:35:04 <pdengler> shepazu: Tooling and existing content does styling with unitless values.
20:36:51 <pdengler> action : shezpazu to Work with Tav and CSS working group on understanding the requirment for CSS/SVG Unitless Properties
20:36:51 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - shezpazu
20:36:58 <pdengler> action : shepazu to Work with Tav and CSS working group on understanding the requirment for CSS/SVG Unitless Properties
20:36:59 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2826 - Work with Tav and CSS working group on understanding the requirment for CSS/SVG Unitless Properties [on Doug Schepers - due 2010-07-27].
20:38:04 <pdengler> ed: Any other last call items; perhaps one or twomore
20:38:19 <ed> ISSUE-2353
20:39:41 <pdengler> ed: Wasn't clear from the description what the red-stroked rectangles were suppose to describe
20:40:35 <pdengler> action : to ed Make modification to spec around feImage coordinates regarding issue 2353
20:40:35 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - to
20:40:57 <pdengler> action : ed To make modification to spec around feImage coordinates regarding issue 2353
20:40:57 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2827 - Make modification to spec around feImage coordinates regarding issue 2353 [on Erik Dahlström - due 2010-07-27].
20:42:05 <pdengler> ed: With no more last call items for today we will move on to other issues
20:42:41 <pdengler> ed: Topic : Default sizing of SVG in HTML5
20:43:12 <pdengler> shepazu: If default size is 100% 100%, if there is a view box, you can infer size
20:43:38 <pdengler> ed: not necessarily size
20:43:54 <pdengler> ed: viewbox infers ratio, not size
20:45:46 <Zakim> -shepazu
20:45:51 <pdengler> ed: It would help to have an example of what you expect and what you get
20:46:00 <Zakim> +shepazu
20:46:07 <pdengler> ed: We should have samples in the test suite
20:46:41 <Zakim> -shepazu
20:47:03 <pdengler> pdengler: They are there, but they are not necessarily complicated enough
20:47:26 <pdengler> action: pdengler to create more sophisticated test cases around <image> sizing and viewBox
20:47:26 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2828 - Create more sophisticated test cases around <image> sizing and viewBox [on Patrick Dengler - due 2010-07-27].
20:48:22 <Zakim> +shepazu
20:49:18 <pdengler> pdengler: When you have a simple <svg><circle...> the default size is 300px,150px as last fall back
20:49:34 <pdengler> ed: Will resolve differently depending on outer container
20:49:51 <pdengler> shepazu: Need to have default intrinsic height in 2.0
20:50:27 <pdengler> action : patd to investigate default <svg> sizing in HTML5
20:50:27 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - patd
20:50:43 <pdengler> action : pdengler to investigate default <svg> sizing in HTML5
20:50:44 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2829 - Investigate default <svg> sizing in HTML5 [on Patrick Dengler - due 2010-07-27].
20:51:15 <pdengler> topic: DrawImage in <cavas>
20:51:36 <pdengler> shepazu: For canvas, since SVG is a "vector", I think the drawImage should take a width and height parameter
20:52:02 <pdengler> ed: It does take a width and height, but it doesn't always have them available
20:52:16 <pdengler> shepazu: In the case where there isn't a width and height, we need to determine what to do
20:52:26 <ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Jul/0074.html
20:52:51 <pdengler> shepazu: If it has a width and height, use the width and height of the viewBox in pixels
20:53:06 <pdengler> ed: Not sure this is a great idea
20:53:25 <Zakim> -shepazu
20:53:45 <Zakim> +shepazu
20:53:49 <pdengler> ed: If you don't pass a width and height when you call drawImage, the SVG image needs to be drawn into an area, you could use the <canvas> width and height 
20:54:01 <Zakim> -shepazu
20:54:08 <pdengler> ed: Then the underlying viewBox could still be used for the coordinate system
20:54:34 <pdengler> ed: We have experimental code dealing with this which probably needs further fixing
20:55:25 <pdengler> pdengler: I like this.
20:55:46 <pdengler> ed: We should get this back to the HTML/Canvas effort
20:56:52 <pdengler> action: pdengler to get to HTML5 working group <canvas> about using canvas width and height for SVG width and height
20:56:52 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2830 - Get to HTML5 working group <canvas> about using canvas width and height for SVG width and height [on Patrick Dengler - due 2010-07-27].
20:57:15 <pdengler> ed: We need to get jwatt's opinion as well
20:57:39 <pdengler> pdengler: I will use this as a first poposal and be prepared to back it out of Jonothan does not like it
20:58:43 <ed> topic: load events on svg elements
20:58:43 <ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Jul/0070.html
20:58:58 <ed> ISSUE-2254?
20:58:59 <trackbot> ISSUE-2254 -- Consider changing which elements have load dispatched to them -- raised
20:58:59 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2254
21:00:19 <pdengler> ed: What we concluded that loadevents on elements that have external resources; for other elements we couldn't care less; but that's not what the spec says
21:00:28 <pdengler> ed: And there is at least one test that checks for these
21:00:53 <ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Jul/0073.html
21:05:03 <pdengler> action : to pdengler Check into SVG Load on all elements and performance
21:05:03 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - to
21:05:22 <pdengler> action :pdengler to  Check into SVG Load on all elements and performance
21:05:22 <trackbot> Sorry, bad ACTION syntax
21:05:34 <pdengler> action :pdengler to Check into SVG Load on all elements and performance
21:05:34 <trackbot> Sorry, bad ACTION syntax
21:05:45 <pdengler> action : pdengler to Check into SVG Load on all elements and performance
21:05:45 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2831 - Check into SVG Load on all elements and performance [on Patrick Dengler - due 2010-07-27].
21:06:43 <Zakim> +shepazu
21:07:00 <ed> topic: ie9 clarification issues
21:07:03 <pdengler> Topic : Markers and styles at point of reference 
21:07:21 <ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Jul/0066.html
21:08:38 <pdengler> pdengler: We should be using markers styled at the point of reference
21:08:57 <pdengler> shepazu: There is an issue that there is a lot of content out there that already follows this
21:09:19 <pdengler> pdengler has joined #svg
21:10:26 <pdengler> shepazu: The way we talked about it, was to have a different method for styling the markers 
21:15:23 <ed> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/painting-marker-02-f.svg
21:15:41 <pdengler> pdengler: Looking at this test http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/harness/htmlEmbed/painting-marker-02-f.html
21:19:50 <Zakim> -shepazu
21:20:13 <ed> <marker id=foo><rect fill="currentColor"></marker> <line marker-start="url(#foo)" color="blue"/>
21:24:22 <Zakim> +shepazu
21:26:50 <pdengler> shepazu: unforutnately, the conceptual model that a marker was not a <use>
21:27:12 <pdengler> shepazu: Tried a number of ways to change fill/stroke of markers
21:27:40 <pdengler> shepazu: As a forward change in SVG 2.0, but we could add this in one of two ways;
21:28:04 <pdengler> shepazu: Keep it backward compatible with marker-fill/marker-stroke; this would support both use cases
21:28:23 <pdengler> shepazu: Another way to do it is to inherit the fill and stroke of it's referencing parent
21:28:46 <pdengler> Tav: You can't just inherit the stroke of the parent
21:29:32 <pdengler> shepazu: most content defines the style for the marker.
21:30:26 <pdengler> shepazu: you don't get to override this. It's not as much as an issue as I thought, as existing content is already defining stroke/stroke-width colors
21:30:42 <ed> ok, we can forget the marker + color example i pasted earlier, doesn't work :)
21:30:57 <pdengler> shepazu: So we could redefine it for SVG 2.0; but for the author is best for us define marker specifc properties
21:32:06 <pdengler> action: ed: to investigate markers and where and when to apply style
21:32:07 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2832 - Investigate markers and where and when to apply style [on Erik Dahlström - due 2010-07-27].
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21:33:57 <pdengler> Tav: Suppose there is an arrow. The normal thing to do would be to have the arrow head to inherit the stroke-color of the path for the fill of the marker
21:34:33 <pdengler> shepazu: How do we achieve that effect?
21:36:08 <pdengler> shepazu: Most of the time, authors are using the path without a fill
21:44:57 <Zakim> -ed
21:44:58 <Zakim> -shepazu
21:45:00 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
21:45:01 <Zakim> -tav
21:45:02 <Zakim> GA_SVGWG()4:00PM has ended
21:45:04 <Zakim> Attendees were ed, +33.9.53.77.aaaa, anthony, +1.919.824.aabb, tav, shepazu, [Microsoft]
21:45:10 <anthony> Zakim, bye
21:45:10 <Zakim> Zakim has left #svg
21:45:16 <anthony> RRSAgent, make minutes
21:45:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html anthony