IRC log of svg on 2010-07-20

Timestamps are in UTC.

20:00:15 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #svg
20:00:15 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-irc
20:00:17 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
20:00:17 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #svg
20:00:19 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
20:00:19 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see GA_SVGWG()4:00PM scheduled to start now
20:00:20 [trackbot]
Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
20:00:20 [trackbot]
Date: 20 July 2010
20:00:37 [Tav]
Tav has joined #svg
20:00:38 [Zakim]
GA_SVGWG()4:00PM has now started
20:00:45 [Zakim]
+??P0
20:00:50 [ed]
Zakim, ?? is m
20:00:50 [Zakim]
+m; got it
20:02:59 [ed]
Zakim, m is ed
20:02:59 [Zakim]
+ed; got it
20:03:58 [Zakim]
+ +33.9.53.77.aaaa
20:05:04 [shepazu]
minutes
20:06:41 [anthony]
anthony has joined #svg
20:06:46 [ed]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010JulSep/0047.html + http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010JulSep/0048.html
20:07:18 [Zakim]
+??P2
20:07:30 [anthony]
Zakim, ??P2 is me
20:07:30 [Zakim]
+anthony; got it
20:08:42 [ed]
regrets: CL
20:10:23 [ed]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Paris-2010-F2F
20:10:29 [ed]
http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/19480/f2fParis2010/
20:11:21 [Zakim]
+ +1.919.824.aabb
20:13:20 [ed]
ACTION: ed to fix broken images in 1.1F2/images (commit with -kb flag)
20:13:20 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2825 - Fix broken images in 1.1F2/images (commit with -kb flag) [on Erik Dahlström - due 2010-07-27].
20:15:49 [ed]
topic: SVG 1.1F2 LC comments
20:16:29 [ed]
Zakim, who is here?
20:16:29 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ed, +33.9.53.77.aaaa, anthony, +1.919.824.aabb
20:16:31 [Zakim]
On IRC I see anthony, Tav, Zakim, RRSAgent, ed, f1lt3r, shepazu, trackbot, anthony_w, karl, ed_work
20:16:48 [ed]
Zakim, +33 is tav
20:16:48 [Zakim]
+tav; got it
20:16:58 [ed]
Zakim, +1 is shepazu
20:16:58 [Zakim]
+shepazu; got it
20:19:09 [Zakim]
-shepazu
20:19:44 [ed]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010JulSep/0042.html
20:20:04 [ed]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010JulSep/0043.html
20:20:12 [ed]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010JulSep/0045.html
20:20:53 [Zakim]
+shepazu
20:21:15 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
20:21:51 [pdengler]
pdengler has joined #svg
20:22:49 [pdengler]
scribenick: pdengler
20:27:55 [pdengler]
pdengler: CSS defined properties (e.g. 'font-size') must follow CSS syntax and thus require units for non-zero <length> values. See 6.1 for a list of CSS defined properties
20:28:11 [pdengler]
pdengler: This is the proposed change of language correct?
20:28:21 [Zakim]
-shepazu
20:28:44 [Zakim]
+shepazu
20:29:01 [pdengler]
pdengler has joined #svg
20:29:31 [pdengler]
ed: Not a problem going to a property for x and y
20:31:00 [pdengler]
shepazu: When using attributes use SVG unit values, when using CSS use unit values
20:31:08 [pdengler]
ed: not sure this is what browers do
20:31:19 [pdengler]
Tav: Not sure if this is what we are saying
20:31:30 [ed]
http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/types-basic-02-f.svg
20:31:47 [pdengler]
pdengler has joined #svg
20:33:48 [pdengler]
shepazu: Need to coordinate w/ CSS working group
20:34:04 [pdengler]
shepazu: Take HTML approach that CSS working group needs to reasses the issue
20:34:18 [pdengler]
shepazu: Need to do with the Fx task force
20:35:04 [pdengler]
shepazu: Tooling and existing content does styling with unitless values.
20:36:51 [pdengler]
action : shezpazu to Work with Tav and CSS working group on understanding the requirment for CSS/SVG Unitless Properties
20:36:51 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - shezpazu
20:36:58 [pdengler]
action : shepazu to Work with Tav and CSS working group on understanding the requirment for CSS/SVG Unitless Properties
20:36:59 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2826 - Work with Tav and CSS working group on understanding the requirment for CSS/SVG Unitless Properties [on Doug Schepers - due 2010-07-27].
20:38:04 [pdengler]
ed: Any other last call items; perhaps one or twomore
20:38:19 [ed]
ISSUE-2353
20:39:41 [pdengler]
ed: Wasn't clear from the description what the red-stroked rectangles were suppose to describe
20:40:35 [pdengler]
action : to ed Make modification to spec around feImage coordinates regarding issue 2353
20:40:35 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - to
20:40:57 [pdengler]
action : ed To make modification to spec around feImage coordinates regarding issue 2353
20:40:57 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2827 - Make modification to spec around feImage coordinates regarding issue 2353 [on Erik Dahlström - due 2010-07-27].
20:42:05 [pdengler]
ed: With no more last call items for today we will move on to other issues
20:42:41 [pdengler]
ed: Topic : Default sizing of SVG in HTML5
20:43:12 [pdengler]
shepazu: If default size is 100% 100%, if there is a view box, you can infer size
20:43:38 [pdengler]
ed: not necessarily size
20:43:54 [pdengler]
ed: viewbox infers ratio, not size
20:45:46 [Zakim]
-shepazu
20:45:51 [pdengler]
ed: It would help to have an example of what you expect and what you get
20:46:00 [Zakim]
+shepazu
20:46:07 [pdengler]
ed: We should have samples in the test suite
20:46:41 [Zakim]
-shepazu
20:47:03 [pdengler]
pdengler: They are there, but they are not necessarily complicated enough
20:47:26 [pdengler]
action: pdengler to create more sophisticated test cases around <image> sizing and viewBox
20:47:26 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2828 - Create more sophisticated test cases around <image> sizing and viewBox [on Patrick Dengler - due 2010-07-27].
20:48:22 [Zakim]
+shepazu
20:49:18 [pdengler]
pdengler: When you have a simple <svg><circle...> the default size is 300px,150px as last fall back
20:49:34 [pdengler]
ed: Will resolve differently depending on outer container
20:49:51 [pdengler]
shepazu: Need to have default intrinsic height in 2.0
20:50:27 [pdengler]
action : patd to investigate default <svg> sizing in HTML5
20:50:27 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - patd
20:50:43 [pdengler]
action : pdengler to investigate default <svg> sizing in HTML5
20:50:44 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2829 - Investigate default <svg> sizing in HTML5 [on Patrick Dengler - due 2010-07-27].
20:51:15 [pdengler]
topic: DrawImage in <cavas>
20:51:36 [pdengler]
shepazu: For canvas, since SVG is a "vector", I think the drawImage should take a width and height parameter
20:52:02 [pdengler]
ed: It does take a width and height, but it doesn't always have them available
20:52:16 [pdengler]
shepazu: In the case where there isn't a width and height, we need to determine what to do
20:52:26 [ed]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Jul/0074.html
20:52:51 [pdengler]
shepazu: If it has a width and height, use the width and height of the viewBox in pixels
20:53:06 [pdengler]
ed: Not sure this is a great idea
20:53:25 [Zakim]
-shepazu
20:53:45 [Zakim]
+shepazu
20:53:49 [pdengler]
ed: If you don't pass a width and height when you call drawImage, the SVG image needs to be drawn into an area, you could use the <canvas> width and height
20:54:01 [Zakim]
-shepazu
20:54:08 [pdengler]
ed: Then the underlying viewBox could still be used for the coordinate system
20:54:34 [pdengler]
ed: We have experimental code dealing with this which probably needs further fixing
20:55:25 [pdengler]
pdengler: I like this.
20:55:46 [pdengler]
ed: We should get this back to the HTML/Canvas effort
20:56:52 [pdengler]
action: pdengler to get to HTML5 working group <canvas> about using canvas width and height for SVG width and height
20:56:52 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2830 - Get to HTML5 working group <canvas> about using canvas width and height for SVG width and height [on Patrick Dengler - due 2010-07-27].
20:57:15 [pdengler]
ed: We need to get jwatt's opinion as well
20:57:39 [pdengler]
pdengler: I will use this as a first poposal and be prepared to back it out of Jonothan does not like it
20:58:43 [ed]
topic: load events on svg elements
20:58:43 [ed]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Jul/0070.html
20:58:58 [ed]
ISSUE-2254?
20:58:59 [trackbot]
ISSUE-2254 -- Consider changing which elements have load dispatched to them -- raised
20:58:59 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2254
21:00:19 [pdengler]
ed: What we concluded that loadevents on elements that have external resources; for other elements we couldn't care less; but that's not what the spec says
21:00:28 [pdengler]
ed: And there is at least one test that checks for these
21:00:53 [ed]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Jul/0073.html
21:05:03 [pdengler]
action : to pdengler Check into SVG Load on all elements and performance
21:05:03 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - to
21:05:22 [pdengler]
action :pdengler to Check into SVG Load on all elements and performance
21:05:22 [trackbot]
Sorry, bad ACTION syntax
21:05:34 [pdengler]
action :pdengler to Check into SVG Load on all elements and performance
21:05:34 [trackbot]
Sorry, bad ACTION syntax
21:05:45 [pdengler]
action : pdengler to Check into SVG Load on all elements and performance
21:05:45 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2831 - Check into SVG Load on all elements and performance [on Patrick Dengler - due 2010-07-27].
21:06:43 [Zakim]
+shepazu
21:07:00 [ed]
topic: ie9 clarification issues
21:07:03 [pdengler]
Topic : Markers and styles at point of reference
21:07:21 [ed]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Jul/0066.html
21:08:38 [pdengler]
pdengler: We should be using markers styled at the point of reference
21:08:57 [pdengler]
shepazu: There is an issue that there is a lot of content out there that already follows this
21:09:19 [pdengler]
pdengler has joined #svg
21:10:26 [pdengler]
shepazu: The way we talked about it, was to have a different method for styling the markers
21:15:23 [ed]
http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/painting-marker-02-f.svg
21:15:41 [pdengler]
pdengler: Looking at this test http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/harness/htmlEmbed/painting-marker-02-f.html
21:19:50 [Zakim]
-shepazu
21:20:13 [ed]
<marker id=foo><rect fill="currentColor"></marker> <line marker-start="url(#foo)" color="blue"/>
21:24:22 [Zakim]
+shepazu
21:26:50 [pdengler]
shepazu: unforutnately, the conceptual model that a marker was not a <use>
21:27:12 [pdengler]
shepazu: Tried a number of ways to change fill/stroke of markers
21:27:40 [pdengler]
shepazu: As a forward change in SVG 2.0, but we could add this in one of two ways;
21:28:04 [pdengler]
shepazu: Keep it backward compatible with marker-fill/marker-stroke; this would support both use cases
21:28:23 [pdengler]
shepazu: Another way to do it is to inherit the fill and stroke of it's referencing parent
21:28:46 [pdengler]
Tav: You can't just inherit the stroke of the parent
21:29:32 [pdengler]
shepazu: most content defines the style for the marker.
21:30:26 [pdengler]
shepazu: you don't get to override this. It's not as much as an issue as I thought, as existing content is already defining stroke/stroke-width colors
21:30:42 [ed]
ok, we can forget the marker + color example i pasted earlier, doesn't work :)
21:30:57 [pdengler]
shepazu: So we could redefine it for SVG 2.0; but for the author is best for us define marker specifc properties
21:32:06 [pdengler]
action: ed: to investigate markers and where and when to apply style
21:32:07 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2832 - Investigate markers and where and when to apply style [on Erik Dahlström - due 2010-07-27].
21:33:11 [pdengler]
pdengler has joined #svg
21:33:57 [pdengler]
Tav: Suppose there is an arrow. The normal thing to do would be to have the arrow head to inherit the stroke-color of the path for the fill of the marker
21:34:33 [pdengler]
shepazu: How do we achieve that effect?
21:36:08 [pdengler]
shepazu: Most of the time, authors are using the path without a fill
21:44:57 [Zakim]
-ed
21:44:58 [Zakim]
-shepazu
21:45:00 [Zakim]
-[Microsoft]
21:45:01 [Zakim]
-tav
21:45:02 [Zakim]
GA_SVGWG()4:00PM has ended
21:45:04 [Zakim]
Attendees were ed, +33.9.53.77.aaaa, anthony, +1.919.824.aabb, tav, shepazu, [Microsoft]
21:45:10 [anthony]
Zakim, bye
21:45:10 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #svg
21:45:16 [anthony]
RRSAgent, make minutes
21:45:16 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/07/20-svg-minutes.html anthony