IRC log of ua on 2010-07-15

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:36:50 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #ua
16:36:50 [RRSAgent]
logging to
16:36:52 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
16:36:52 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #ua
16:36:54 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG
16:36:54 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 24 minutes
16:36:55 [trackbot]
Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
16:36:55 [trackbot]
Date: 15 July 2010
16:38:24 [kford]
Agenda+ Action Item Review
16:38:26 [kford]
Agenda+Writing meeting: Message at and survey at
16:38:27 [kford]
Agenda+ Tracking UAAG implementations
16:40:04 [AllanJ]
AllanJ has joined #ua
16:44:19 [kford]
Chair: Jim_Allan_Kelly_Ford
16:44:28 [kford]
Regrets: Jeanne
16:44:38 [kford]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:44:38 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate kford
16:52:32 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started
16:52:38 [Zakim]
17:00:01 [Greg]
Greg has joined #ua
17:01:05 [Zakim]
17:01:18 [kford]
zakim, microsoft is kford
17:01:18 [Zakim]
+kford; got it
17:01:22 [Zakim]
17:03:29 [patrickhlauke]
patrickhlauke has joined #ua
17:03:51 [patrickhlauke]
is the bridge connection fixed, or do we have alternative yet?
17:05:29 [Greg]
The new dial-in number for the UK is +44.203.318.0479 (London)
17:06:21 [Zakim]
+ +44.797.663.aaaa
17:06:59 [patrickhlauke]
zakim, aaa is me
17:06:59 [Zakim]
sorry, patrickhlauke, I do not recognize a party named 'aaa'
17:07:10 [patrickhlauke]
zakim, aaaa is me
17:07:10 [Zakim]
+patrickhlauke; got it
17:07:34 [sharper]
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17:07:53 [sharper]
zakim, code?
17:07:53 [Zakim]
the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+ tel:+44.203.318.0479), sharper
17:08:28 [Zakim]
17:08:51 [sharper]
zakim, ??P12 is sharper
17:08:51 [Zakim]
+sharper; got it
17:09:16 [kford]
17:09:23 [kford]
zakim, agenda?
17:09:23 [Zakim]
I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
17:09:24 [Zakim]
1. Action Item Review [from kford]
17:09:26 [Zakim]
2. Writing meeting: Message at and survey at [from kford]
17:09:29 [Zakim]
3. Tracking UAAG implementations [from kford]
17:09:44 [kford]
zakim, takeup item 2
17:09:44 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'takeup item 2', kford
17:09:50 [kford]
zakim, takeup item 2
17:09:50 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'takeup item 2', kford
17:09:58 [kford]
zakim, takeup item 2
17:09:58 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'takeup item 2', kford
17:10:13 [kford]
zakim, take up item 2
17:10:13 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Writing meeting: Message at and survey at" taken
17:10:17 [Zakim]
... up [from kford]
17:10:29 [AllanJ]
scribe: Allanj
17:14:03 [AllanJ]
discussion of times, tenatively schedule time for Aug 2 & 3,
17:14:10 [AllanJ] out details next week
17:14:15 [kford]
zakim, close item 2
17:14:15 [Zakim]
agendum 2, Writing meeting: Message at and survey at, closed
17:14:18 [Zakim]
I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:14:20 [Zakim]
1. Action Item Review [from kford]
17:14:26 [kford]
zakim, take up item 1
17:14:26 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Action Item Review" taken up [from kford]
17:15:23 [AllanJ]
17:16:29 [AllanJ]
kf: all set realistic date for due dates. Kelly to send out list on Monday
17:17:25 [kford]
zakim, close item 1
17:17:25 [Zakim]
agendum 1, Action Item Review, closed
17:17:26 [Zakim]
I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
17:17:28 [Zakim]
3. Tracking UAAG implementations [from kford]
17:17:34 [kford]
zakim, take up item 3
17:17:34 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Tracking UAAG implementations" taken up [from kford]
17:20:41 [patrickhlauke]
17:25:24 [AllanJ]
discussion of form
17:25:37 [AllanJ]
WCAG 2.0 Test Suite
17:26:22 [AllanJ]
UAAG 1.0 Test Suite
17:28:45 [AllanJ]
Patrick - Opera, Kelly - IE,
17:28:58 [AllanJ]
HTML 4.01 Test Suite
17:35:17 [AllanJ]
Microsoft IE Test Center -
17:45:36 [AllanJ]
kf: if you support MSAA or IAccessible2 or any other accessibility platform architecture then to provide role, state, value, name, and description
17:46:12 [AllanJ]
ARIA test examples -
17:50:44 [AllanJ]
discussion of SC 3.1.1 -
17:50:59 [AllanJ]
pl: would say no browser supports this
17:52:39 [AllanJ]
gl: could write a user style sheet to put text in the page to indicate presence of alternative content
17:53:27 [AllanJ]
kf: do we think this is a level A SC.
17:53:37 [AllanJ]
gl: could turn on globally.
17:54:05 [AllanJ]
kf: in IE could turn off images, then alt is revealed.
17:56:31 [AllanJ]
gl: idea is for alternative content. turn off images, IE shows alt, page has 100 images, could navigate to every image to see which have long desc. or the UA could have a feature that would display some icon, or list those images with long desc.
17:58:36 [Greg]
A use case for 3.1.1 would be a user turns off images and views a Web page with a hundred images, three of which have longdesc. The browser shows the alt text for all the images, and because of the user's preference settings also annotates those three to indicate they have longdesc available. The user can then navigate to those specific images and issue a command to open their corresponding...
17:58:38 [Greg]
...longdesc pages, rather than having to test every one of the hundred images in case they might have longdesc.
17:59:23 [AllanJ]
kf: what do we mean here. How does IE get a yes for 3.1.1?
18:01:23 [AllanJ]
...have an object tag, it lets you specify internal content if object is not displayed. if it is displayed does the UA need to indicate that alternative content exits.
18:01:52 [AllanJ]
gl: reads from the implementation document.
18:05:09 [AllanJ]
sh: are we including extensions or plain vanilla UA
18:05:09 [sharper]
18:06:30 [AllanJ]
gl: yes. need to add another column, supported natively or with an extension (must name extension in notes)
18:08:58 [Greg]
Possible values are Yes (natively), Yes (with available extensions or style sheets), Potentially (extensions or style sheets can be created to do this), or No.
18:09:19 [AllanJ]
gl: should say explicitly what we don't want.
18:09:57 [Greg]
Specifically probably don't need to identify fallback content such as the content of an object tag, since 99% of the time that's just "You need to install the such-and-so player".
18:10:25 [AllanJ]
pl: 3.1.1 is related to 3.1.2-5
18:11:10 [AllanJ]
ja: lots of use cases for having a list of alternative content is important.
18:11:39 [AllanJ]
kf: proposes a survey for UA implementations.
18:11:58 [AllanJ]
...or we just fill out spreadsheet.
18:12:42 [AllanJ]
pl: these questions are useful. note questions...what exactly does this mean? discuss on next call
18:12:59 [AllanJ]
gl: before implementations, must have explicit test cases.
18:13:13 [AllanJ]
kf: have to decide what exactly we mean.
18:13:22 [AllanJ]
gl: both, together
18:15:17 [AllanJ]
... try review GL 3 across browsers, note questions, misunderstandings, extensions. send to list
18:18:32 [Zakim]
18:18:33 [Zakim]
18:18:34 [Zakim]
18:18:35 [Greg]
Patrick pointed out another value: N/A (not applicable, e.g. voice output requirements are not applicable to a user agent that does not self-voice)
18:18:41 [sharper]
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18:20:38 [Zakim]
18:20:40 [Zakim]
18:20:40 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has ended
18:20:42 [Zakim]
Attendees were AllanJ, kford, Greg, +44.797.663.aaaa, patrickhlauke, sharper
18:20:49 [patrickhlauke]
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18:21:35 [AllanJ]
zakim, make minutes
18:21:35 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'make minutes', AllanJ
18:21:44 [AllanJ]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:21:44 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate AllanJ
18:32:51 [AllanJ]
zakim, please part
18:32:51 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #ua
18:33:04 [AllanJ]
rrsagent, set logs public
18:33:15 [AllanJ]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:33:15 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate AllanJ