IRC log of sparql on 2010-07-13

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:56:21 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #sparql
13:56:21 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/07/13-sparql-irc
13:56:23 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
13:56:23 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #sparql
13:56:25 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 77277
13:56:25 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
13:56:26 [trackbot]
Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
13:56:26 [trackbot]
Date: 13 July 2010
13:56:28 [LeeF]
zakim, this will be sparql
13:56:31 [Zakim]
ok, LeeF; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
13:56:40 [SteveH_]
SteveH_ has joined #sparql
13:58:04 [Zakim]
SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started
13:58:12 [Zakim]
+ +44.186.528.aaaa
13:58:27 [bglimm]
Zakim, +44.186.528.aaaa is me
13:58:27 [Zakim]
+bglimm; got it
13:59:02 [Zakim]
+kasei
13:59:14 [Zakim]
+ +33.4.92.38.aabb
13:59:26 [ivan]
zakim, dial ivan-voip
13:59:26 [Zakim]
ok, ivan; the call is being made
13:59:28 [OlivierCorby]
Zakim, aabb is me
13:59:30 [Zakim]
+OlivierCorby; got it
13:59:30 [Zakim]
+Ivan
13:59:34 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
13:59:46 [AndyS]
zakim, +[IPCaller] is me
13:59:47 [mperry]
mperry has joined #sparql
13:59:51 [Zakim]
sorry, AndyS, I do not recognize a party named '+[IPCaller]'
13:59:52 [Zakim]
+??P14
13:59:55 [AlexPassant]
Zakim, ??P14 is me
13:59:59 [kasei]
we should teach Zakim to recognize AndyS by the typing noises :)
14:00:01 [Zakim]
+AlexPassant; got it
14:00:04 [AndyS]
zakim, +IPCaller is me
14:00:09 [Zakim]
sorry, AndyS, I do not recognize a party named '+IPCaller'
14:00:15 [Zakim]
+Lee_Feigenbaum
14:00:18 [AndyS]
zakim, [IPCaller] is me
14:00:21 [Zakim]
+AndyS; got it
14:00:21 [LeeF]
zakim, IPCaller is AndyS
14:00:26 [Zakim]
sorry, LeeF, I do not recognize a party named 'IPCaller'
14:00:36 [Zakim]
+ +1.603.897.aacc
14:00:45 [mperry]
zakim, aacc is me
14:00:50 [Zakim]
+ +44.208.439.aadd
14:00:52 [Zakim]
+mperry; got it
14:00:52 [bglimm]
Zakim, mute me
14:00:53 [Souri]
Souri has joined #sparql
14:00:54 [Zakim]
+ +1.603.897.aaee
14:00:56 [Zakim]
bglimm should now be muted
14:00:58 [SteveH_]
Zakim, aadd is me
14:01:00 [Zakim]
+SteveH_; got it
14:01:03 [LeeF]
zakim, who's on the phone?
14:01:03 [Zakim]
On the phone I see bglimm (muted), kasei, OlivierCorby, Ivan, AndyS, AlexPassant, Lee_Feigenbaum, mperry, SteveH_, +1.603.897.aaee
14:01:18 [LeeF]
Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2010-07-13
14:01:19 [Souri]
zakim, aaee is me
14:01:19 [Zakim]
+Souri; got it
14:01:51 [kasei]
where is the test CVS? same as docs?
14:01:54 [chimezie]
chimezie has joined #sparql
14:02:05 [chimezie]
Zakim, what is the passcode?
14:02:05 [Zakim]
the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), chimezie
14:02:13 [kasei]
thanks
14:02:18 [LeeF]
e.g. http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/subquery/
14:02:48 [Zakim]
+ +1.216.636.aaff
14:03:01 [chimezie]
Zakim, +1.216.636.aaff is me
14:03:01 [Zakim]
+chimezie; got it
14:03:25 [AlexPassant]
ok
14:03:33 [LeeF]
Scribenick: AlexPassant
14:04:10 [LeeF]
PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-07-06
14:04:39 [AlexPassant]
LeeF: minutes of last week, long discussion LET and assignement
14:05:14 [AlexPassant]
... suggestion to have implementers write up the semantics on the list
14:05:19 [AlexPassant]
... to take a decision
14:05:25 [AlexPassant]
... done by AndyS and LeeF
14:05:30 [AlexPassant]
... pgearon will also do
14:05:40 [AlexPassant]
... then we could take a decision
14:05:44 [AlexPassant]
... as done for negation in the past
14:06:02 [AlexPassant]
... decision by web-based survey or t-con
14:06:07 [AlexPassant]
... first option is probably better
14:06:11 [LeeF]
RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-07-06
14:06:19 [LeeF]
Next regular meeting: 2010-07-20 @ 15:00 UK / 10:00 EDT
14:06:19 [chimezie]
Zakim, mute me
14:06:22 [Zakim]
chimezie should now be muted
14:07:06 [AlexPassant]
... will try to send test cases to the list
14:07:21 [AlexPassant]
... TC will be in CVS
14:07:43 [AlexPassant]
... if collecting TC, sync with LeeF sandro ivan or Axel for CVS access
14:07:56 [LeeF]
zakim, who's on the phone?
14:07:56 [Zakim]
On the phone I see bglimm (muted), kasei, OlivierCorby, Ivan, AndyS, AlexPassant, Lee_Feigenbaum, mperry, SteveH_, Souri, chimezie (muted)
14:08:21 [AlexPassant]
... RDB2RDF published the 1st draft of UCR
14:08:27 [AlexPassant]
... mapping languages, etc.
14:08:37 [LeeF]
topic: test cases
14:08:46 [LeeF]
subtopic: subquery
14:09:04 [AlexPassant]
... OlivierCorby put TC
14:09:05 [LeeF]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010JulSep/0010.html
14:09:14 [AlexPassant]
... Andy raised questions and observations
14:09:19 [AlexPassant]
... discussions on the previous thread
14:09:35 [AlexPassant]
... look at each TC and discuss / approve
14:09:40 [AlexPassant]
... 10 TC
14:10:55 [AlexPassant]
... Tests 1 and 2
14:11:03 [LeeF]
http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/subquery/manifest.ttl
14:11:11 [LeeF]
:subquery01 rdf:type mf:QueryEvaluationTest ;
14:11:11 [LeeF]
mf:name "Subquery within graph pattern" ;
14:11:11 [LeeF]
dawgt:approval dawgt:NotClassified ;
14:11:11 [LeeF]
mf:action
14:11:11 [LeeF]
[ qt:query <sq01.rq> ;
14:11:12 [LeeF]
qt:graphData <sq01.rdf> ] ;
14:11:14 [LeeF]
mf:result <sq01.srx>
14:11:16 [LeeF]
.
14:11:18 [AlexPassant]
... manifest file, walk through the first one
14:11:21 [AlexPassant]
... query evaluation test
14:11:45 [AlexPassant]
... predicate for approval
14:11:51 [kasei]
in the future, can I suggest indenting the query source and results xml? makes reading them much easier (at least for me)
14:11:58 [AlexPassant]
... result as an XML file
14:12:05 [LeeF]
http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/subquery/sq01.rdf
14:12:52 [LeeF]
rdf:resource=""
14:12:59 [kasei]
:c :p <sq01.rdf>
14:13:07 [chimezie]
empty URI reference
14:13:09 [ivan]
same as <> in turtle
14:13:10 [AndyS]
Base URI
14:13:19 [LeeF]
prefix ex:<http://www.example.org/schema#>
14:13:19 [LeeF]
prefix in:<http://www.example.org/instance#>
14:13:19 [LeeF]
select ?x ?p where {
14:13:19 [LeeF]
graph ?g {
14:13:19 [LeeF]
{select * where {?x ?p ?y}}
14:13:20 [LeeF]
}
14:13:22 [LeeF]
}
14:13:35 [AlexPassant]
... query with a graph clause
14:13:56 [LeeF]
expected results - http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/subquery/sq01.srx
14:14:16 [AlexPassant]
... projecting the top level query
14:14:34 [AlexPassant]
... get subject and predicate from the triples
14:16:11 [LeeF]
@prefix : <http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/data-r2/basic/manifest#> .
14:16:25 [LeeF]
http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/subquery/manifest#
14:16:31 [AlexPassant]
... current manifest should probably be updated
14:16:38 [SteveH_]
yes, because the manifest has changed
14:16:45 [AlexPassant]
AndyS: agreed
14:16:48 [SteveH_]
manifest schema that is
14:16:53 [AlexPassant]
LeeF: update the prefix manifest
14:17:12 [AndyS]
This is the URI of the test itself.
14:17:38 [Zakim]
+pgearon
14:17:47 [LeeF]
PROPOSED: Approve test http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/subquery/manifest#subquery01
14:18:31 [AndyS]
http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/subquery/subquery01
14:19:41 [AlexPassant]
Souri: cannot see the refreshed version
14:19:48 [AlexPassant]
LeeF: mirrors are not always synced
14:19:55 [AndyS]
It has just refreshed for me (14:17)
14:20:00 [AlexPassant]
... may need several refreshs
14:20:34 [LeeF]
RESOLVED: Approve test http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/subquery/manifest#subquery01
14:20:36 [pgearon]
abstain. I came in too late
14:21:01 [AlexPassant]
... 2nd TC
14:21:09 [AlexPassant]
... same dataset but different query
14:21:19 [LeeF]
prefix ex:<http://www.example.org/schema#>
14:21:19 [LeeF]
prefix in:<http://www.example.org/instance#>
14:21:19 [LeeF]
select ?x ?p where {
14:21:19 [LeeF]
graph ?g {
14:21:19 [LeeF]
{select * where {?x ?p ?g}}
14:21:20 [LeeF]
}
14:21:22 [LeeF]
}
14:21:37 [LeeF]
http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/subquery/sq02.srx
14:22:03 [AlexPassant]
... query nested in a graph clause
14:22:30 [SteveH_]
q+
14:22:33 [AlexPassant]
... looks ok to LeeF
14:22:35 [LeeF]
ack SteveH_
14:23:42 [AlexPassant]
SteveH_: question about the status of abstain
14:24:53 [AlexPassant]
LeeF: do not like to approve tasks that no one executed
14:25:04 [AlexPassant]
... may delay some tasks
14:25:54 [LeeF]
PROPOSED: Approve test http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/subquery/manifest#subquery02
14:26:01 [SteveH_]
abstain
14:26:01 [AndyS]
seconded
14:26:12 [LeeF]
RESOLVED: Approve test http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/subquery/manifest#subquery02
14:26:59 [AndyS]
I now agree with test 3.
14:27:35 [AlexPassant]
... TC3, same data
14:27:47 [LeeF]
http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/subquery/sq03.rq
14:27:53 [AlexPassant]
... different use case of ?g from the previous one
14:27:59 [LeeF]
http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/subquery/sq03.srx
14:28:01 [AlexPassant]
... expected results: 2 bindings
14:28:26 [LeeF]
PROPOSED: Approve test http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/subquery/manifest#subquery03
14:28:53 [LeeF]
rdf:resource="
14:28:55 [LeeF]
rdf:resource=""
14:28:55 [AlexPassant]
Souri: where do we have the graph name ?
14:29:03 [AlexPassant]
LeeF: rdf:resource="" refers to the base URI
14:29:10 [AlexPassant]
... which is also the graph name in the manifest
14:29:20 [LeeF]
graph name is object of qt:graphData preficate
14:29:42 [chimezie]
Zakim, unmute me
14:29:42 [Zakim]
chimezie should no longer be muted
14:29:43 [chimezie]
q+
14:29:56 [LeeF]
ack chimezie
14:30:11 [AlexPassant]
chimezie: follow-up, graph name allocated in the manifest is the baseURI of the source file ?
14:30:18 [AlexPassant]
AndyS: no that's where you read the file from
14:30:33 [AlexPassant]
... you cant have a name in one place and the data in another
14:31:31 [chimezie]
Zakim, mute me
14:31:31 [Zakim]
chimezie should now be muted
14:31:50 [AlexPassant]
LeeF: graph name is given in the manifest
14:32:44 [AlexPassant]
... named graph in the RDF dataset are defined by qt:graphDataPredicate
14:33:04 [kasei]
s/qt:graphDataPredicate/qt:graphData predicate/
14:33:54 [LeeF]
rdf:resource=""
14:34:40 [SteveH_]
abstain
14:34:47 [LeeF]
RESOLVED: Approve test http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/subquery/manifest#subquery03
14:34:51 [AndyS]
seconded
14:36:02 [kasei]
sq04.rq uses a FROM uri that doesn't exist (?)
14:36:03 [LeeF]
test 4 defines a named graph qt:graphData <sq01.rdf>
14:36:09 [AlexPassant]
LeeF: Test 4, defines a named graph
14:36:18 [LeeF]
in the query it uses FROM from <sq04.rdf>
14:36:27 [AlexPassant]
... uses FROM in the query
14:36:30 [LeeF]
Olivier's email - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010JulSep/0014.html
14:36:40 [AlexPassant]
... understanding from OlivierCorby email is to show that inside the graph clause
14:37:00 [AlexPassant]
... the subquery is only matching against the main graph of the dataset
14:37:29 [AlexPassant]
... if we include a graph both in the manifest and the auery
14:37:36 [AlexPassant]
... the dataset is not a union of both
14:37:39 [AlexPassant]
s/auery/query
14:39:39 [AlexPassant]
LeeF: if we want to show that the FROM does not apply, maybe it should be an empty graph
14:39:48 [AlexPassant]
OlivierCorby: better to use a graph that exists for the FROM ?
14:39:51 [AlexPassant]
LeeF: probably
14:40:19 [AndyS]
[ qt:query <sq04.rq> ; qt:data <anything_different_but_exists> ; qt:graphData <sq01.rdf> ]
14:43:07 [AlexPassant]
LeeF: maniest updated in CVS
14:44:11 [LeeF]
PROPOSED: Approve test http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/subquery/manifest#subquery04
14:44:20 [SteveH_]
abstain
14:44:38 [LeeF]
RESOLVED: Approve test http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/subquery/manifest#subquery04
14:45:47 [AndyS]
Test 8 comment: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010JulSep/0021.html
14:46:16 [AlexPassant]
LeeF: test8, inner select
14:46:42 [LeeF]
prefix ex:<http://www.example.org/schema#>
14:46:42 [LeeF]
prefix in:<http://www.example.org/instance#>
14:46:42 [LeeF]
select ?x ?max where {
14:46:42 [LeeF]
{select max(?y) as ?max where {?x ex:p ?y} }
14:46:42 [LeeF]
?x ex:p ?max
14:46:43 [LeeF]
}
14:46:44 [AlexPassant]
OlivierCorby: corrected query 8
14:46:48 [AlexPassant]
... problem with variable ?x
14:49:40 [mperry]
How is no group by not a problem?
14:50:11 [mperry]
ok
14:50:46 [AlexPassant]
LeeF: will fix everything in CVS with AndyS and OlivierCorby
14:51:42 [AlexPassant]
... dont want to go through all TC now
14:51:46 [chimezie]
Zakim, unmute me
14:51:46 [Zakim]
chimezie should no longer be muted
14:51:55 [chimezie]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010JulSep/0005.html
14:52:25 [AlexPassant]
chimezie: using MINUS the girht hand side does not have access to the variables from the left ?
14:52:30 [AlexPassant]
LeeF: yes
14:52:34 [AlexPassant]
s/girht/right
14:52:45 [AlexPassant]
... will fix in CVS before the next TC
14:52:59 [kasei]
I'm mostly able to run them.
14:53:08 [AlexPassant]
... anyone able to run the tasks ?
14:53:13 [pgearon]
I can run a lot of them, but not the update tests
14:53:14 [kasei]
might take some coaxing, but close...
14:53:17 [AndyS]
I'm not able to run update tests yet.
14:53:19 [chimezie]
the only implentation contribution to the test process i will be able to give will be with SPARQL entailment probably
14:53:28 [pgearon]
but I don't have much of SPARQL 1.1 implemented
14:53:40 [AlexPassant]
... want to start gathering the UDPATE tasks
14:54:17 [LeeF]
topic: reset operation in Update?
14:55:46 [AlexPassant]
question is should DROP ALL include only named graphs or also the default one
14:56:40 [pgearon]
I wouldn't mind knowing what people would prefer
14:57:33 [mperry]
I would say drop everything named and default
14:57:55 [chimezie]
if there is already a way to specifically drop the default graph, I would prefer DROP ALL only deletes named graphs
14:58:13 [AlexPassant]
what about DROP NAMED ?
14:58:45 [LeeF]
DROP DEFAULT / DROP NAMED / DROP ALL seems reasonably elegant
14:58:46 [AlexPassant]
DROP DEFAULT / DROP NAMED / DROP ALL ?
15:00:19 [AlexPassant]
Ill followup with these 3 options on the list
15:00:37 [ivan]
zakim, drop me
15:00:37 [Zakim]
Ivan is being disconnected
15:00:39 [Zakim]
-Ivan
15:00:40 [Zakim]
-chimezie
15:00:41 [bglimm]
bye
15:00:44 [Zakim]
-AlexPassant
15:00:46 [Zakim]
-bglimm
15:00:48 [Zakim]
-pgearon
15:00:52 [Zakim]
-mperry
15:01:04 [LeeF]
action-266?
15:01:04 [trackbot]
ACTION-266 -- Gregory Williams to write a mail to the list on the issue of DS-1 and what are the options -- due 2010-07-06 -- OPEN
15:01:04 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/actions/266
15:01:08 [Zakim]
-SteveH_
15:01:12 [LeeF]
trackbot, close action-266
15:01:12 [trackbot]
ACTION-266 Write a mail to the list on the issue of DS-1 and what are the options closed
15:01:22 [LeeF]
action-251?
15:01:22 [trackbot]
ACTION-251 -- Gregory Williams to send test cases for 0-length paths to mailing list -- due 2010-06-03 -- OPEN
15:01:22 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/actions/251
15:01:23 [Zakim]
-Souri
15:01:32 [Zakim]
-AndyS
15:01:35 [AlexPassant]
RRSAgent: make minutes
15:01:35 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/07/13-sparql-minutes.html AlexPassant
15:01:40 [SteveH_]
ther's a lot of delay in zakim
15:01:44 [Zakim]
-kasei
15:01:48 [LeeF]
trackbot, close action-251
15:01:48 [trackbot]
ACTION-251 Send test cases for 0-length paths to mailing list closed
15:01:50 [Zakim]
-OlivierCorby
15:02:05 [Zakim]
-Lee_Feigenbaum
15:02:07 [Zakim]
SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended
15:02:08 [Zakim]
Attendees were bglimm, kasei, +33.4.92.38.aabb, OlivierCorby, Ivan, AlexPassant, Lee_Feigenbaum, AndyS, +1.603.897.aacc, +44.208.439.aadd, mperry, +1.603.897.aaee, SteveH_, Souri,
15:02:10 [Zakim]
... chimezie, pgearon
15:03:27 [LeeF]
RRSAgent, make logs public
15:36:01 [AndyS]
AndyS has joined #sparql
16:09:33 [SteveH_]
SteveH_ has joined #sparql
16:09:40 [SteveH_]
SteveH_ has joined #sparql
16:16:54 [kasei]
AndyS, ping?
16:19:50 [OlivierCorby]
OlivierCorby has left #sparql
17:20:53 [LeeF]
LeeF has joined #sparql
17:24:49 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #sparql
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AndyS has joined #sparql