13:00:31 RRSAgent has joined #wam 13:00:31 logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/07/08-wam-irc 13:00:37 + +1.781.534.aaaa 13:00:41 RRSAgent, make log public 13:00:55 ScribeNick: ArtB 13:00:57 Scribe: Art 13:00:58 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2010JulSep/0095.html 13:01:00 Chair: Art 13:01:01 Meeting: Widgets Voice Conference 13:01:03 Regrets: Frederick 13:01:30 zakim, dial steven-617 13:01:30 ok, Steven_; the call is being made 13:01:31 Present+ Laszlo_Gombos 13:01:31 +Steven 13:01:44 Present+ Steven_Pemberton 13:01:45 zakim, I am Steven 13:01:45 ok, Steven_, I now associate you with Steven 13:01:56 + +1.479.524.aabb 13:02:08 Present+ Marcos_Caceres 13:03:43 Topic: Review and tweak agenda 13:03:51 AB: the draft agenda was submitted on July 7 ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2010JulSep/0095.html ). If Robin doesn't join, we will drop the URI scheme agenda item. Any change requests? 13:04:21 lgombos has joined #wam 13:04:49 + +1.813.087.aacc 13:05:11 Present+ Kenneth 13:05:21 Topic: Announcements 13:05:26 AB: any short announcements? DAP WG has f2f meeting next week so there will be no call on July 15 and I have a conflict on July 22 so there will be no call on that day. Next call will be July 29. 13:06:13 MC: I added licenses to the test cases 13:06:45 ... did for P&C spec 13:06:56 ... reflects the discussion we had with Rigo Wenning 13:07:04 ... there is a license in every widget zip 13:07:11 ... and it points to the W3C license 13:07:23 ... plan to do the TWI spec 13:07:43 ... Opera created a Perl script to do the work of adding the license 13:07:49 AB: thanks very much! 13:07:50 http://dev.w3.org/2006/waf/mkwidgets.pl 13:08:02 Topic: Packaging and Configuration spec 13:08:08 AB: Issue-117 "In Widget P&C Spec, need to clarify in the spec that dir attribute does not apply to attributes that are IRIs, Numeric, Keywords, etc. The dir attribute only affects human readable strings." ( http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/track/issues/117 ) 13:08:19 AB: Marcos asked the I18N WG for feedback ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2010JulSep/0041.html ). Anything to report on this? 13:08:42 MC: no I haven't received any replies 13:08:52 AB: this is blocking our P&C PR request 13:09:04 ... so I'll follow-up with Richard and Addison 13:09:15 ACTION: barstow followup with I18N WG re Issue-117 13:09:16 Created ACTION-565 - Followup with I18N WG re Issue-117 [on Arthur Barstow - due 2010-07-15]. 13:09:38 \ 13:09:59 MC: re the and dir attribute 13:10:14 ... I added some tests 13:10:25 ... also added some tests to reflect the VM media feature CR 13:10:51 AB: the P&C had to be updated because the values of the view-mode media feature had changed 13:10:53 http://dev.w3.org/2006/waf/widgets/test-suite/test-cases/ta-viewmodes/ 13:11:37 MC: clarified the set of attributes that are Keywords and which attrs are displayable 13:11:49 ... the changes are purely editorial - no normative changes 13:12:09 ... Lachlan created over 100 tests for and dir attr 13:12:14 ... we will submit them soon 13:12:24 AB: that's great - thanks to Lachlan! 13:13:15 MC: the tests are related to parsing the element and attribute 13:13:36 ... we do need to talk to the I18N guys to make sure we are doing the right thing 13:13:51 ... for the purposes of the test suite, must do byte comparison 13:14:11 ... After we complete the model, we will send an email that explains what we did 13:14:33 Topic: The Widget Interface spec 13:14:40 AB: Issue-116 "Need to flesh out the security considerations for the openURL method in the Widget Interface spec" ( http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/track/issues/116 ) 13:14:52 AB: Marcos proposed resolution to Issue-116 is to remove openURL from the spec ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2010AprJun/1229.html ). 13:15:06 AB: last week we agreed ( http://www.w3.org/2010/07/01-wam-minutes.html#item03 ) to get more input from implementors. 13:15:54 MC: I've asked implementors and widget developers 13:16:15 ... no one so far has come back with a really good use case 13:16:25 ... or that we can't live without it given its issues 13:16:49 LG: I haven't followed all of the discussions 13:17:01 ... I would like to understand the security issues 13:17:14 ... but I just heard it may not be useful 13:17:29 MC: well, it is useful but its use must be secure 13:17:46 ... e.g. when can a widget send a SMS without the user's consent 13:17:55 LG: agree user consent is needed 13:18:05 ... the spec doesn't mention user consent 13:18:35 ... for example, sms and user consent is left to the implementation 13:19:01 MC: not clear it should open a new app without user intervention 13:19:20 ... e.g. could open a URL after some timer expires 13:19:33 kenneth has joined #wam 13:19:35 ... I don't think a URL should be opened without user consent 13:20:16 ... need to be careful about windows being automatically opened 13:21:16 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2010AprJun/0570.html 13:21:20 ... Adam Barth referenced related issues 13:21:55 AB: is this the one: http://www.gnucitizen.org/blog/ie-pwns-secondlife/ ? 13:22:05 "I'm not familiar enough with the use cases for widgets to know what the alternatives are. My perspective is that we'd be better off with a much weaker window.open() API in the web platform, but we're stuck with what we have. In the widgets space, it seems like there's an opportunity to do something better that doesn't require us to reinvent popup blockers and all the other pseudo-security cruft we have around to deal with window.open() in browsers." 13:22:12 Says Adam 13:22:51 MC: in Adam's email, he makes two proposals 13:23:06 ... #1 is to remove the API and handle it programatically 13:23:33 ... #2 is to use a white list of URLs 13:24:06 LG: do you consider widget openURL as similar to window.open()? 13:24:14 MC: no, the use cases are different 13:24:23 ... window.open is to do an overlay 13:25:01 ... openURL is fire and forget in Opera 13:25:43 LG: but what about other schemes? 13:25:56 MC: we don't support other schemes except perhaps mailto: 13:26:39 MC: can use element's click 13:26:54 ... also want to use a white list of allowed URIs 13:27:05 LG: so openURL is considered redundant? 13:27:10 ... and hence no use for it? 13:27:16 MC: yes, that's our thinking 13:27:25 ... we want to defer to the HTML5 security model 13:27:32 ... rather than define our own 13:27:52 LG: ok; 13:28:00 MC: I'm leaning towards dropping it 13:28:10 ... but want to hear from others 13:28:26 lca has joined #wam 13:28:47 AB: is openURL used in Opera widgets? 13:29:14 MC: yes, it is part of Opera widgets 13:29:34 AB: openURL is part of S60 widgets 13:30:14 AB: do we want to consider moving it to a separate spec? 13:30:25 MC: I think that is worth considering 13:30:57 ... I don't think we want to continue to discuss it 13:31:06 ... don't think we loose anything by removing it 13:31:37 ... that is, can use other means e.g. and click to get the same result 13:33:22 AB: I want to get closure but think we need some more time 13:33:48 ... we could create a proposed resolution and then on July 29, agree to a resolution 13:33:53 ... would that be OK? 13:34:08 LG: yes, that would be OK 13:34:23 MC: yes that would be fine 13:35:08 AB: since this spec is in CR, I will start a new thread to solicit input 13:35:30 ACTION: barstow start a thread on Issue-117 to gather input on the various options 13:35:30 Created ACTION-566 - Start a thread on Issue-117 to gather input on the various options [on Arthur Barstow - due 2010-07-15]. 13:35:56 AB: anything else on this topic for today? 13:36:12 KC: nothing new to add 13:36:28 Topic: AOB 13:36:34 AB: next call is July 29 13:37:15 AB: meeting adjourned 13:37:25 RRSAgent, make minutes 13:37:25 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/07/08-wam-minutes.html ArtB 13:37:27 - +1.781.534.aaaa 13:37:28 - +1.479.524.aabb 13:37:28 -Steven 13:37:30 -Art_Barstow 13:38:03 - +1.813.087.aacc 13:38:04 IA_WebApps(Widgets)9:00AM has ended 13:38:06 Attendees were Art_Barstow, +1.781.534.aaaa, Steven, +1.479.524.aabb, +1.813.087.aacc 13:53:04 zakim, bye 13:53:04 Zakim has left #wam 13:53:08 rrsagent, bye 13:53:08 I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2010/07/08-wam-actions.rdf : 13:53:08 ACTION: barstow followup with I18N WG re Issue-117 [1] 13:53:08 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/07/08-wam-irc#T13-09-15 13:53:08 ACTION: barstow start a thread on Issue-117 to gather input on the various options [2] 13:53:08 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/07/08-wam-irc#T13-35-30