00:12:56 Judy has joined #html-a11y
01:06:26 Judy has joined #html-a11y
14:59:31 RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
14:59:31 logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/07/08-html-a11y-irc
14:59:33 RRSAgent, make logs world
14:59:35 Zakim, this will be 2119
14:59:36 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
14:59:36 Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:59:37 Date: 08 July 2010
14:59:46 zakim, this will be #html-a11y
14:59:46 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, janina
14:59:53 zakim, this is 2119
14:59:55 ok, MichaelC; that matches WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM
15:00:10 dboudreau has joined #html-a11y
15:00:29 zakim, this will be html-a11y
15:00:29 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, janina
15:00:43 Zakim, call Mike
15:00:43 ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
15:00:50 zakim, call janina
15:00:50 ok, janina; the call is being made
15:00:57 zakim, this is 2119
15:00:57 ok, MichaelC; that matches WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM
15:01:01 zakim, who's on the phone?
15:01:01 On the phone I see Rich, +1.408.307.aaaa, Mike, Michael_Cooper, Janina
15:01:16 zakim aaaa is eric_carlson
15:01:18 zakim, aaaa is Eric_Carlson
15:01:18 +Eric_Carlson; got it
15:01:24 +Gregory_Rosmaita
15:01:30 + +1.514.312.aabb
15:01:56 JF has joined #html-a11y
15:01:57 agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jul/0018.html
15:01:57 <--- on the phone 514.312
15:02:04 zakim, aabb is Denis_Boudreau
15:02:04 +Denis_Boudreau; got it
15:02:13 agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jul/0017.html
15:02:43 + +1.650.862.aacc
15:03:08 zakim, aacc is John_Foliot
15:03:08 +John_Foliot; got it
15:03:21 Marco_Ranon has joined #html-a11y
15:04:12 Zakim, take up item 1
15:04:12 I see nothing on the agenda
15:04:24 agenda+ Identify scribe
15:04:24 -> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List Scribe List
15:04:24 agenda+ Do once-over of previous meeting minutes
15:04:24 -> http://www.w3.org/2010/07/01-html-a11y-minutes.html 2010-07-01 minutes
15:04:24 agenda+ Media team; status on requirements; next steps
15:04:25 -> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_Accessibility_Requirements Media Accessibility Requirements
15:04:27 agenda+ ARIA team; ARIA-in-HTML conformance spec text
15:04:28 -> http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/misc/HTML5/aria-html5-proposal.html proposed replacement spec text
15:04:31 -> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/ARIAinHTML5 "ARIA in HTML5" Change Proposal
15:04:33 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jun/att-0216/mapping.html API mappings
15:04:35 agenda+ Review open action items
15:04:36 -> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open Open Actions
15:04:39 agenda+ any progress on ensuring that drag-and-drop events are keyboard activatable?
15:04:41 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jun/0258.html need drag-and-drop implementor feedback
15:04:44 agenda+ discussion of general target timeline for getting resolution on remaining accessibility issues
15:04:46 agenda+ bug triage
15:04:50 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jul/0012.html Weekly Resolved & Rejected Bugs Report
15:04:53 agenda+ plans for f2f meeting at TPAC
15:04:55 agenda+ Any other business
15:04:57 regrets: Laura_Carlson, Steven_Faulkner
15:04:57 agenda+ next meetings, confirm date/time, choose scribe
15:04:59 zakim, take up item 1
15:04:59 agendum 1. "Identify scribe" taken up [from MikeSmith]
15:05:00 +[IPcaller]
15:05:10 -> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List Scribe List
15:05:20 zakim, IPCaller is Marco_Ranon
15:05:20 +Marco_Ranon; got it
15:06:06 + +49.179.103.aadd
15:06:36 scribe: Marco_Ranon
15:06:46 zakim, drop item 1
15:06:46 agendum 1, Identify scribe, dropped
15:06:59 zakim, take up item 2
15:07:01 agendum 2. "Do once-over of previous meeting minutes" taken up [from MikeSmith]
15:07:26 -> http://www.w3.org/2010/07/01-html-a11y-minutes.html 2010-07-01 minutes
15:08:37 GJR notes that aria drag'n'drop is supported in the latest point release of JAWS 11 (as is verbosity control over live regions)
15:09:18 we should have a meta discussion regarding the general principle of splitting out authoring guidance from the larger spec, especially when it impacts on accessibility issues.
15:09:24 muted myself
15:09:43 This is currently an active topic regarding Issue 31 [1] versus SteveF’s First Public Draft regarding @alt text [2] (with an indication that Ian will be submitting a null change proposal for Issue 31 [3]) and also related to Action Item 44 [4] (as well as possibly Item 46 [5]). Establishing a general principle (Resolution?) within the TF on this issue will become important (IMHO). I also...
15:09:44 ...anticipate that this issue will likely re-surface with ongoing work within the media sub-team’s current activities, so a clearly articulated position will be import there as well.
15:09:57 [1] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/31
15:09:59 [2] http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/WD-html-alt-techniques-20100624/
15:10:00 [3] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Jul/0000.html
15:10:02 [4] http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/44
15:10:03 [5] http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/46
15:11:13 agenda+ general principle of splitting out authoring guidance (John Foliot)
15:11:42 zakim, take up item 3
15:11:42 agendum 3. "Media team; status on requirements; next steps" taken up [from MikeSmith]
15:12:37 JF: we have a number of comments devided up among different takers. Divided in two batches.
15:12:59 JF: first batch done last week, second will be done by the end of this week
15:13:27 JF: by next week the requirements doc will be ready and we'll start working soon on tech requirements
15:14:03 MS: we are on schedule. anything blocking?
15:14:08 +Cynthia_Shelly
15:14:49 JF: most issues resolved.
15:15:21 MS: what after the requirements doc is ready?
15:15:34 q?
15:15:35 JF: javascript API needs to be moved forward
15:16:04 JF: make sure tech specs follow the requirements and address all issues.
15:16:29 JF: I believe we are getting close. Maybe a week / 10 days
15:17:07 JF: move on
15:17:28 zakim, take up item 4
15:17:28 agendum 4. "ARIA team; ARIA-in-HTML conformance spec text" taken up [from MikeSmith]
15:17:49 MS: Cynthia?
15:18:19 CS: submitted to WG with small tweaks.
15:18:32 zakim, take up item 12
15:18:32 agendum 12. "general principle of splitting out authoring guidance (John Foliot)" taken up [from MikeSmith]
15:18:44 cshelly has joined #html-a11y
15:19:27 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/07/08-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
15:19:49 JF: with Steve's doc we are starting to split guidance from the specs
15:20:01 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jul/0007.html Agenda Item for next week's a11yTF Conference Call?
15:20:39 q?
15:21:39 JF: this will be important with media. the TF shuold push towards having a guidance document
15:22:08 MS: examples?
15:22:35 JF: authoring transcripts, captions, subtitles
15:24:28 MS: two options: JF to drive it or somebody else? Indicating what to have in a separate document.
15:25:25 MS: JF, can you put some more time on this or anybody else can take responsability for it?
15:25:40 paulc has joined #html-a11y
15:25:59 q?
15:26:29 q+ to note that, related to timeline discussion, we need to focus resources on on-time core deliverables, then turn attention to auxiliary work
15:27:15 ack MichaelC
15:27:15 MichaelC, you wanted to note that, related to timeline discussion, we need to focus resources on on-time core deliverables, then turn attention to auxiliary work
15:27:20 JF: is there agreement in the WG / TF that this is the way forward?
15:27:44 CS: I agree that we shoulld break down things in different documents
15:28:04 q+ to ask to what degree do we want to go down this road -- a document for proper TABLE markup seems far less useful than putting info into HTML5 spec
15:28:08 +[Microsoft]
15:28:19 MC: we need to concentrate on timeline first and optimise resources
15:28:32 MC: important work but not right now
15:28:55 I believe that breaking things down in different docuemnts is a good idea as well
15:29:03 + 1
15:29:10 zakim, [Microsoft] has paulc
15:29:10 +paulc; got it
15:29:28 q?
15:30:02 JF: the TF should decide if splitting things is the best way forward?
15:30:48 CS: authors won't read the specs
15:31:03 there is a queue
15:31:10 having documents on the side that can evolve once html5 is set in stone can only be a good way forward as far as i'm concerned
15:31:18 JF: the guidance document could evolve, the specs stay fixed
15:31:47 ack me
15:31:47 oedipus, you wanted to ask to what degree do we want to go down this road -- a document for proper TABLE markup seems far less useful than putting info into HTML5 spec
15:31:49 ack oedipus
15:31:50 most authors i know will read techniques documents, but very few go down the specs themselves
15:33:44 Gregory: to what level do we want to break down the docs?
15:34:27 isn't there a way for us to set the foundations in the spec, but refering to document techniques for details? Most people aren't lazy, theyr'e just afraid of the larger documents... and html5 is already huge
15:35:26 GR: a bit concerned about to much splitting out
15:36:02 q+
15:36:07 GR: we need to protect the specs
15:36:16 ack paulc
15:36:19 q?
15:36:37 JF: the specs should only to deal with the markup and not the discussion
15:36:44 dboudreau, understood - it needs to be in both places, and mutually reinforced
15:36:53 PC: why should we split the material?
15:37:48 JF: by splitting these document we would provide examples that are not strictly tech specs
15:37:54 dboudreau, i like the "markup spec" version because it doesn't crash my UAs like the "main" HTML5 spec often does
15:38:27 because the main spec is much too big?
15:38:39 dboudreau, precisely
15:38:51 PC: not talking about taking accessibility issues off the html specs?
15:38:59 JF: no
15:39:25 GJR perceives need to distinguish between the science and the art of accessibility -- where "art" means how to provide terse and long descriptors, but the nuts and bolts for accessibility should not only be in HTML5 spec, but in EVERY example therein
15:39:37 q+
15:39:44 oedipus, the same thing would have happened in wcag 2, had the techniques and failures been integrated directly in the spec
15:40:07 q?
15:41:02 JF: we still have to decide if we want to follow this principle
15:41:59 PC: i think the current html5 specs are adequate to authors, and i wonder if splitting docs would be really helpful
15:42:16 aren't we on the path of splitting documents to have one for UA and one for authors?
15:42:23 ack oedipus
15:42:24 ack me
15:42:27 q?
15:42:52 GJR: we need to distingue between the science and the art of accessibility.
15:43:29 GRJ: access principle should always be part if the specs, implementations should e in a separate document
15:44:10 PC: discussion to be contuined on the mailing list
15:44:11 dboudreau, i'm not sure what cowpath we are on ;)
15:44:32 agenda?
15:44:32 GJR notes that aria drag'n'drop is supported in the latest point release of JAWS 11 (as is verbosity control over live regions)
15:44:43 zakim, drop item 2
15:44:47 zakim, drop item 3
15:44:50 zakim, drop item 4
15:44:58 agendum 2, Do once-over of previous meeting minutes, dropped
15:44:59 agendum 3, Media team; status on requirements; next steps, dropped
15:45:01 agendum 4, ARIA team; ARIA-in-HTML conformance spec text, dropped
15:45:02 zakim, take up item 6
15:45:02 agendum 6. "any progress on ensuring that drag-and-drop events are keyboard activatable?" taken up [from MikeSmith]
15:45:08 oedipus :) for the record I agree with what you'Re saying... the principles should be in the spec, but not the implementation
15:45:08 q?
15:45:24 MS: any new information on DnD?
15:46:07 zakim, drop item 6
15:46:07 agendum 6, any progress on ensuring that drag-and-drop events are keyboard activatable?, dropped
15:46:17 GJR: Jaws 11 has support for DnD and live regions
15:46:38 silvia has joined #html-a11y
15:47:06 http://www.freedomscientific.com/downloads/jaws/JAWS-whats-new.asp
15:47:29 previous link contains info about JAWS support for ARIA drag'n'drop and live region control
15:47:31 zakim, take up item 8
15:47:31 agendum 8. "bug triage" taken up [from MikeSmith]
15:47:33 cshelly has joined #html-a11y
15:47:45 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jul/0012.html Weekly Resolved & Rejected Bugs Report
15:48:21 eric_carlson has joined #html-a11y
15:49:06 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10026
15:49:23 MS: Bug 10066: waiting for editor response.
15:49:40 MS: Volunteers? maybe Joshue O'Connor?
15:50:58 MS: Bug 9657: please respond to Lief
15:51:19 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/CAPTCHA_Survey
15:51:26 CAPTCHA bug
15:51:27 MS: CAPTCHA BUG
15:52:15 MS: do we need a survey about CAPTCHA?
15:52:58 q?
15:53:15 MC: we can do a survey.
15:54:22 Captcha survey: I'd say give ppl time to go over it again then decide if it's rdy for publication
15:54:23 MS to talk to MC offline
15:54:29 captcha example in HTML5 thread: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Mar/thread.html#msg361
15:55:22 Zakim, drop item 8
15:55:22 agendum 8, bug triage, dropped
15:55:24 -[Microsoft]
15:55:49 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Bugs/Bugs_Awaiting_A11yTF_Keyword_Decision
15:56:58 MS: please add comments and send messages to TF mailing list if yuo feel strong about any of the bugs
15:57:05 Zakim, take up item 5
15:57:05 agendum 5. "Review open action items" taken up [from MikeSmith]
15:57:24 -> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open Open Actions
15:58:02 MS: not time left for all actions
15:58:17 action-28?
15:58:17 ACTION-28 -- Gregory Rosmaita to - prepare text for SteveF's guidance document about future of data-mining using RDFPic methodology outlined in post to list -- due 2010-07-01 -- OPEN
15:58:17 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/28
15:58:37 GJR: next week for action 28
15:58:58 action-28 due 2010-07-15
15:58:58 ACTION-28 - prepare text for SteveF's guidance document about future of data-mining using RDFPic methodology outlined in post to list due date now 2010-07-15
15:59:07 Laura has joined #html-a11y
15:59:45 -Rich
15:59:47 [ajourned]
15:59:48 -kliehm
15:59:53 RRSAgent, make minutes
15:59:53 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/07/08-html-a11y-minutes.html MikeSmith
15:59:56 -John_Foliot
15:59:56 regrets for nex week from me
16:00:03 -Eric_Carlson
16:00:05 ok take care all
16:00:16 Zakim, drop Mike
16:00:16 Mike is being disconnected
16:00:17 -Mike
16:00:28 -Cynthia_Shelly
16:00:29 -Janina
16:00:31 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/07/08-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
16:00:38 -Michael_Cooper
16:01:49 chair: Mike_Smith
16:02:28 zakim, please part
16:02:28 leaving. As of this point the attendees were Rich, +1.408.307.aaaa, Mike, Michael_Cooper, Janina, Eric_Carlson, Gregory_Rosmaita, +1.514.312.aabb, Denis_Boudreau, +1.650.862.aacc,
16:02:28 Zakim has left #html-a11y
16:02:32 ... John_Foliot, Marco_Ranon, +49.179.103.aadd, kliehm, Cynthia_Shelly, paulc
16:02:44 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/07/08-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
16:04:10 present+ Marco_Ranon,Paul_Cotton,John_Foliot
16:04:25 present- +1.408.307.aaaa, +1.514.312.aabb, +1.650.862.aacc
16:04:32 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/07/08-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
16:05:00 present+ Cynthia_Shelly
16:05:02 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/07/08-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
16:06:03 silvia has joined #html-a11y
16:08:37 rssagent, please part
16:11:42