IRC log of html-a11y on 2010-07-07

Timestamps are in UTC.

21:59:31 [RRSAgent]
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21:59:31 [RRSAgent]
logging to
21:59:41 [janina]
zakim, this will be WAI_PFWG(A11Y)
21:59:41 [Zakim]
ok, janina, I see WAI_PFWG(A11Y)6:00PM already started
21:59:43 [Zakim]
21:59:47 [janina]
zakim, call janina
21:59:47 [Zakim]
ok, janina; the call is being made
21:59:49 [Zakim]
22:00:13 [janina]
zakim, who is on the phone?
22:00:13 [Zakim]
On the phone I see John, Janina
22:00:52 [silvia]
I will be here on irc
22:01:52 [Judy]
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22:02:19 [JF]
thanks silvia
22:02:29 [Zakim]
+ +44.154.558.aaaa
22:02:37 [Zakim]
22:04:10 [janina]
scribe: janina
22:05:22 [janina]
jf: suggests we go through first batch of comments
22:05:28 [janina]
jf: consider how to get them into the wiki doc
22:05:54 [janina]
jf: then second batch, and tech reqs
22:07:11 [janina]
jf: sec 2.4 clear audio ...
22:07:16 [JF]
Sec. 2.4 Clear Audio
22:07:17 [JF]
22:07:19 [JF]
22:07:20 [JF]
22:07:22 [JF]
22:07:23 [JF]
22:07:52 [janina]
jf: seems there was confusion re what clear audio is
22:08:14 [janina]
jf: that we're talking about an isolated audio track
22:08:50 [janina]
jf: is that correct
22:09:13 [janina]
sh: my understanding is as used in u.k., believe it's derived
22:09:20 [janina]
sh: but that's not the same as the user req
22:09:39 [janina]
sh: we need to capture the separation notion
22:10:11 [janina]
jf: one audio stream, or a derived stream?
22:10:14 [janina]
sh: could be either
22:10:35 [Zakim]
22:11:02 [eric_carlson]
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22:11:23 [janina]
jf: rec is to make it 'separate alternative audio track'
22:12:04 [janina]
sh: real req is to separate speech in foreground from all background audio
22:12:22 [janina]
jf: so how much on ua vs content producer
22:12:32 [silvia]
question: do we need to insist on having the audio track separate or could it be a track inside a multitrack resource? The latter would be easier to implement.
22:13:10 [silvia]
i.e if we have the notion of separate, that should not imply separate resources
22:13:52 [Judy]
js: but they can still do that if they are separate tracks
22:14:05 [Judy]
sh: [missed]
22:14:31 [JF]
(JF sees silvia on IRC)
22:14:59 [Judy]
sh: just change the relative volume, it's the normal playback system, the user is in control of that
22:15:26 [Judy]
...if the player always has to play back the standard sound track, you always have to have at least the separation of the 2 channels
22:15:48 [mkobayas]
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22:15:49 [Judy]
js: seems to me that you might have a user agent far more capable than just playing one audio track
22:16:18 [Judy]
sh: go for the lowest common denominator, that is what you author for
22:17:00 [janina]
jf: so are we talking ability to see multiple audio tracks -- at the ua
22:17:34 [Judy]
js: i think that is very realistic, that's what we're going to see
22:17:50 [janina]
sh: simplest is just choose a track
22:18:52 [janina]
sh: js is correct, much of our other reqs will require multiple audio, or multiple video, or multiple text tracks -- some combo
22:19:09 [Judy]
zakim, who's on phone?
22:19:09 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, Judy.
22:19:22 [Judy]
zakim, who's here?
22:19:22 [Zakim]
On the phone I see John, Janina, +44.154.558.aaaa, Judy, Eric
22:19:24 [Zakim]
On IRC I see mkobayas, eric_carlson, Judy, RRSAgent, janina, JF, silvia, MikeSmith, Zakim, trackbot
22:19:57 [Judy]
zakim, +44 is Sean
22:19:57 [Zakim]
+Sean; got it
22:25:05 [janina]
sh: so one req is on content provider to make the clear audio available in addition to default audio stream
22:25:15 [janina]
sh: second is on the ua to select, either or both
22:30:20 [janina]
jb: seems we're combining tech and user req discussion
22:32:19 [Judy]
judy agrees w/ js' and sh' capture of this -- but we do need to capture it
22:32:51 [janina]
sh: user need is to be able to listen to either the clear audio stream or the mixed default stream
22:35:24 [Judy]
jf: i don't think that will happen
22:35:40 [Judy]
js: it has to happen, it's in multiple recc's
22:35:55 [Judy]
ec: it will happen in some, and won't be supported in others
22:36:18 [Judy]
jf: so we say, support speech as a separate audio track, and leave it at that?
22:36:32 [Judy]
js: that would be the reasonable way to achieve it
22:37:01 [Judy]
jf: we seem to understand each other, and update the wiki, and move on
22:37:54 [JF]
(CA-1) Support speech as a separate, alternative audio track from other sounds.
22:38:46 [JF]
(CA-1) Support speech as a separate, isolated audio track from other sounds.
22:39:30 [JF]
22:39:48 [janina]
jf: sec 2.5 content nav by content structure
22:42:50 [silvia]
I don't understand the difference between alternative audio track and isolated audio track - hopefully your wiki edits will make these clearer
22:44:22 [davidb]
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22:44:40 [Judy]
silvia, sean proposed re-naming it, it is not a different thing
22:45:51 [silvia]
ok, thanks
22:46:35 [mkobayas]
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22:51:10 [JF]
judy notes that minutes are lean
22:51:30 [janina]
people questioning whether a daisy type audio plus e-text is in scope
22:54:08 [Judy]
judy notes that there were no pre-exclusions of scope
22:54:57 [davidb]
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22:59:48 [silvia]
i would not want to mention concrete formats in the requirements doc other than as an example for describing a requirement
23:00:15 [silvia]
requirements need to be independent of concrete tech solutions
23:00:30 [silvia]
re daisy and epub
23:00:46 [JF]
Eric suggests that the require is that we can associate a document with the media resource that describes the structure of the resource
23:01:19 [JF]
EC: we also need to say somehow that it be possible for the user to be able to navigate through the media resource with that infomration
23:01:30 [Judy]
judy clarifies for silvia that this was not an explicit discussion of including those formats, but being able to address formats with those types of capabilities
23:02:31 [silvia]
good, agreed
23:04:31 [JF]
(CN-2) Provide support for a means of describing the structure of a media resource, and the ability to navigate via this structure.
23:06:53 [janina]
users need to be able to navigate media by its inherent structure, e.g.
23:06:53 [janina]
can associate a document with the media resource that describes the structure of
23:06:53 [janina]
the resource
23:06:53 [janina]
<JF> EC: we also need to say somehow that it be possible for the user to be able to navigate through the media resource with
23:08:38 [janina]
that infomrationagreement to drop 'inherent'
23:10:13 [JF]
(CN-2) Users need to be able to navigate media by its structure (e.g. Using a document that describes the structure of the resource)
23:10:20 [eric_carlson]
23:10:23 [JF]
23:10:25 [janina]
23:11:02 [silvia]
23:12:02 [janina]
23:13:19 [janina]
jb: raises process concern -- we seem to be going item by item again. is there a way to expedite?
23:18:03 [JF]
Sec. 2.8 - Judy to track down example for clarification - will coordinate with Sean
23:18:47 [JF]
Sec. 2.8 Sign Translation
23:18:49 [JF]
23:18:50 [JF]
23:18:52 [JF]
23:18:53 [JF]
23:18:55 [JF]
23:22:09 [JF]
Will ask Silvia to make edits to wiki to incorporate the Q & A provided for this section (clarriffication)
23:22:25 [JF]
Sec. 2.9 Transcripts
23:22:27 [JF]
23:22:29 [JF]
23:22:30 [JF]
23:22:32 [JF]
23:22:33 [JF]
23:22:37 [silvia]
there are not enough notes in these minutes for me to know what to edit
23:22:48 [silvia]
I can make the edits for the sections that Sean and I reviewed though
23:25:55 [JF]
Eric proposes that each group edit the wiki for the sections they responded to/on
23:26:48 [silvia]
23:26:52 [Judy]
judy +1 to eric's suggestion. judy & janina will do this thurs or fri
23:27:49 [Judy]
judy proposes that all parties capture their changes in the history or discussion page, as appropriate for coordinated wiki work
23:33:08 [silvia]
the history page will capture the changes automatically
23:33:28 [silvia]
you can put rationale on the discussion page
23:33:32 [Zakim]
23:33:36 [Zakim]
23:33:41 [Zakim]
23:33:43 [Zakim]
23:33:45 [janina]
general group agreement to drop 'keyboard' from user controls and merge two sections as proposed by jb and js
23:33:50 [janina]
rrsagent, make minutes
23:33:50 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate janina
23:34:04 [janina]
zakim, bye
23:34:04 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were John, Janina, +44.154.558.aaaa, Judy, Eric, Sean
23:34:04 [Zakim]
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23:38:12 [janina]
rrsagent, make minutes
23:38:12 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate janina
23:38:19 [janina]
rrsagent, make log public
23:38:24 [janina]
rrsagent, make minutes
23:38:24 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate janina