Internationalization Teleconference

07 Jul 2010

See also: IRC log


Richard, aphillip, +1.415.283.aaaa, [IPcaller], David, Felix, Norbert, +1.408.349.aabb
Addison Phillips
Addison Phillips


<r12a> felix, i18n

<r12a> felix, 4186 spells i18n on the phone keyboard

<scribe> Scribe: Addison Phillips

<scribe> ScribeNick: aphillip

Agenda and Minutes

Action Items

<Norbert> can we add the time zone ID to the agenda?

addison: forward date-time proposal to HTML WG

all: respond to Issue-88 survey on HTML-WG at http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/issue-88-objection-poll/

richard submitted for the WG

addison: write Internationalization WG position response

<scribe> DONE

richard: html is meeting now

Info Share

addison: unicode locale extension about to enter last call
... iri issues list today
... please review and see if you can contribute

<r12a> http://www.multilingualweb.eu/en

richard: multilingual web project
... link above to home page
... moving forwards

<r12a> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb/

richard: email list setup (above)
... please join

<r12a> http://www.twitter.com/multilingweb

richard: not a lot of news yet
... but the twitter link above provides such

<r12a> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Multilingual-Web/130129063691288#!/pages/Multilingual-Web/130129063691288?ref=ts

richard: also an FB page
... please to visit
... on home page (first link above), most is a news stream

<r12a> http://www.multilingualweb.eu/en/blog

richard: including blog posts from partners

<r12a> Next event

<r12a> The Multilingual Web - Where are we?

<r12a> Date: 26-27 October 2010

<r12a> Location: Madrid, Spain

<r12a> http://www.multilingualweb.eu/documents

richard: info above
... playing with I18N Checker prototype

<r12a> http://qa-dev.w3.org/i18n-checker/

richard: added checks for b and i tags
... also compare language detection to tags

<b> and <i> tags document approval

richard: making changes to document
... some feedback



richard: created background section
... changed japanese examples
... used <cite> element
... added subsection on using lang... not to rely on it
... added link to html5 spec, where you can find text semantic elements, etc.

question is: can I publish now? and do we want to discuss tag vs. element?

norbert: element is more correct and you should use it

addison: maybe both in the question?

<fsasaki> felix: sees some arguments from also HTML5 people like Anne van k. for "element", but also mentioning that he (Anne) is confusing the usage as well

Should I use <b> and <i> elements (tags) in my documents?

Should I use the <b> and <i> elements (tags) in my documents?

<fsasaki> fine by me

is it ready to publish?

addison: anyone need more time to review?

<fsasaki> no

norbert: looks fine to me

<scribe> chair: any opposed to publication?

<scribe> ACTION: richard: publish the b and i tags/elements document [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/07/07-core-minutes.html#action01]

Polyglot review (approval of Richard's comments)

http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/WD-html-polyglot-20100624/ http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2010JulSep/0001.html

richard: the polyglot document describes how to write html5 as xml if you want to serve as text/html
... follow on the Appendix C in XHTML
... can use xml syntax and this document says how to do that and still serve as HTML
... but there are many i18n comments
... despite document brevity
... when UTF-16, must include BOM?

UTF-8 is better choice, but BOM has to be used with UTF-16

addison: I would remove the rec of bom for UTF-8
... but require it for UTF-16

richard: "polyglot markup need not include meta charset"
... include visible encoding declaration in the document
... because it helps developers
... we would prefer a paragraphs saying that

addison: okay with that

richard: use UTF-8 or UTF-16 with appropriate BOM
... implies UTF-8 BOM

addison: use encoding declaration tool at hand for UTF-8
... bom invisible, don't rely on it to carry the information
... save for utf-16

richard: document says "polyglot markup must ... use utf-8/utf-16 ... or use <meta> or <xml> document declaration

addison: technically correct, but we don't want them to say that

richard: omit list
... they go on to explain it

If polyglot markup uses an encoding other than UTF-8 or UTF-16, it must include the XML declaration; however, in this case the document must also include the HTML meta tag specifying the character set. When polyglot markup uses both the XML declaration and the HTML meta tag, these must specify the same character and coding.

richard: not either/or, we'd prefer to see xml and meta with utf-8/utf-16 also
... section 7, attributes
... no mention of xml:lang and lang
... should say both should be used
... also set default language in document via html @lang
... <meta> content-language has no use in XML in setting language
... sections 6.2.2, 6.2.3

Polyglot markup uses lowercase letters for the values of the attributes in the following list when they exist on HTML elements. More specifically, where required, polyglot markup must use lower case letters for all ASCII letters in these attribute values; however, case requirements do not apply to non-ASCII letters such as Greek, Cyrillic, or non-ASCII Latin letters. Attributes for HTML elements other than those in the following list may have values made of m

addison: do they mean "value" of the attribute or just the name of the attribute??

need to clarify

richard: named entity references
... uses decimal NCR instead of NBSP
... would prefer hex here

norbert: one misspelling as ployglot

<scribe> chair: objections to forwarding?

<scribe> ACTION: richard: send our comments and questions to the html wg on polyglot document [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/07/07-core-minutes.html#action02]


I-D on time zones


comment individually, but copy public-i18n if you would like WG endorsement

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: richard: publish the b and i tags/elements document [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/07/07-core-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: richard: send our comments and questions to the html wg on polyglot document [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/07/07-core-minutes.html#action02]
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.135 (CVS log)
$Date: 2010/07/07 17:31:15 $

Scribe.perl diagnostic output

[Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135  of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20  
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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/he(Anne)/he (Anne)/
Succeeded: s/jsut /just /
Succeeded: s/comments/comments and questions/
Found Scribe: Addison Phillips
Found ScribeNick: aphillip
Default Present: Richard, aphillip, +1.415.283.aaaa, [IPcaller], David, Felix, Norbert, +1.408.349.aabb
Present: Richard aphillip +1.415.283.aaaa [IPcaller] David Felix Norbert +1.408.349.aabb
WARNING: Date not understood: 26-27 October 2010
Got date from IRC log name: 07 Jul 2010
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2010/07/07-core-minutes.html
People with action items: comments our questions richard send

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