14:46:11 RRSAgent has joined #forms 14:46:11 logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/06/30-forms-irc 14:46:13 RRSAgent, make logs public 14:46:13 Zakim has joined #forms 14:46:15 Zakim, this will be HTML_Forms 14:46:15 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot 14:46:16 Meeting: Forms Working Group Teleconference 14:46:16 Date: 30 June 2010 14:46:22 zakim, this will be forms 14:46:28 ok, Steven; I see IA_XForms()11:00AM scheduled to start in 14 minutes 14:56:26 pfennell has joined #forms 14:57:07 Chair: Steven 14:57:34 Regrets: Leigh, Uli, Alain 14:59:17 IA_XForms()11:00AM has now started 14:59:24 +[IBM] 14:59:32 wiecha has joined #forms 15:00:08 zakim, dial steven-617 15:00:08 ok, Steven; the call is being made 15:00:09 +Steven 15:00:36 zakim, [IBM is wiecha 15:00:36 +wiecha; got it 15:00:46 zakim, [IBM is me 15:00:46 sorry, wiecha, I do not recognize a party named '[IBM' 15:02:14 Steven has left #forms 15:02:26 Steven has joined #forms 15:02:28 zakim, code? 15:02:28 the conference code is 93676 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), nick 15:03:20 + +44.782.483.aaaa 15:03:28 +Nick_van_den_Bleeken 15:03:50 zakim, aaaa is pfennell 15:03:50 +pfennell; got it 15:05:16 zakim, mute me 15:05:16 Nick_van_den_Bleeken should now be muted 15:05:18 scribe: nick 15:05:22 scribenick: nick 15:05:23 I'll be away from IRC for the duration of the call. 15:09:00 zakim, who is here? 15:09:00 On the phone I see wiecha, Steven, pfennell, Nick_van_den_Bleeken (muted) 15:09:02 On IRC I see Steven, wiecha, Zakim, RRSAgent, nick, trackbot 15:09:26 Topic: Announcements 15:09:36 TOPIC: Announcements 15:10:05 Steven: There is a new open source XForms implementation from Nokia http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-forms/2010Jun/0007.html 15:10:43 http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/2010/xforms11-qr.html 15:10:56 Steven: It looks good and is small, they praise it for XForms being small to implement 15:11:15 Steven: Is rewriting XForms 1.1 Quick Reference 15:11:24 zakim, unmute me 15:11:24 Nick_van_den_Bleeken should no longer be muted 15:11:33 Steven: I improved it a lot 15:13:13 Nick: Is it easy to get it in the 'official' quick reference of w3c 15:13:22 Steven: I will look into it 15:13:38 Topic: mediatype 15:13:58 http://www.w3.org/TR/xforms11/#ui-output-mediatype http://www.w3.org/TR/xforms11/#ui-upload-mediatype 15:14:14 Steven: I hadn't spotted before that we have two different mediatype elements 15:15:15 Steven: They are so similar that I'm assuming that it is an oversight at our side that we have two, and I think we could have just one and use it in both places 15:15:40 Steven: The output has a value attribute (this is the only difference) 15:16:03 John_Boyer has joined #forms 15:16:50 zakim, code? 15:16:50 the conference code is 93676 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), John_Boyer 15:17:37 + +1.250.294.aabb 15:17:54 zakim, I am +1.250 15:17:54 +John_Boyer; got it 15:19:09 Nick: The difference is that we use the mediatype in the upload to store the mediatype, and in output it is read 15:20:52 John: This is an XForms 1.0 construct the child element of the mediatype attribute is for the form control to store the media type 15:21:33 John: The mediatype attribute and child don't serve the same job 15:22:39 John: The attribute is used to drive what media types can be selected, the element defines the place where the effective media type is stored 15:23:43 Steven: It is difficult for authors if the same element has different attributes and/or behavior 15:26:16 John: We can have two mediatype child elements one with ref that does the current behavior and one with value in which it replaces the attribute on the upload control 15:27:15 Nick: For output we only need one mediatype 15:28:12 ... we allow ref and value on that one, and only one is used 15:28:54 John: OK, then I don't know if it makes it more clear 15:29:12 John: You have the same for case in toggle and switch 15:30:05 John: In that case you have a local element definition (the same should be true for mediatype) 15:30:11 zakim, mute me 15:30:11 Nick_van_den_Bleeken should now be muted 15:31:05 Steven: same holds for resource and value elements, maybe I shouldn't worry about it 15:31:26 and let context handle it. 15:32:21 zakim, who is here? 15:32:21 On the phone I see wiecha, Steven, pfennell, Nick_van_den_Bleeken (muted), John_Boyer 15:32:24 On IRC I see John_Boyer, Steven, wiecha, Zakim, RRSAgent, nick, trackbot 15:33:48 Topic: xforms-binding-exception 15:33:50 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-forms/2010Jun/0005.html 15:34:01 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-forms/2010Jun/0006.html 15:37:44 John: Historical an XForms processor with an XPath processor, when the XPath processor raises an exception we raise an exception, in all other cases it is a valid expression 15:38:13 zakim, unmute me 15:38:13 Nick_van_den_Bleeken should no longer be muted 15:40:02 John: when a result can be computed no xforms-compute-exception nor a xforms-bind-exception is sent 15:40:42 zakim, mute me 15:40:42 Nick_van_den_Bleeken should now be muted 15:41:55 Steven: Wherever the XPath 1.0 spec says "it is an error" an xforms-compute-exception or an xforms-bind-exception should be sent 15:43:11 John: They don't say that the expression should be syntacticly correct accordingly to the BNF 15:43:48 for XPath 2.0 http://www.w3.org/TR/xpath20/#errors 15:46:02 John: in XForms the processor dies when an binding-exception or compute-exception is raised 15:46:36 Steven: The wrong number of parameters will cause this? 15:46:55 John: Correct 15:48:46 Steven: an binding-exception or compute-exception is raised when the XPath 1.0 says "it is an error" or if the expression isn't syntacticly correct accordingly to the BNF 15:49:04 http://www.w3.org/2009/10/REC-xforms-20091020-errata-20091020.html 15:49:51 ACTION: JOHN to update the errata document so it it is more clear on an binding-exception or compute-exception (they are raised when the XPath 1.0 says "it is an error" or if the expression isn't syntacticly correct accordingly to the BNF) 15:49:51 Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - JOHN 15:49:51 Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. jkugelma, jboyer) 15:50:33 topic: @iterate 15:50:41 I think we need Erik here to discuss this 15:50:45 http://www.w3.org/2009/10/REC-xforms-20091020-errata-20091020.html 15:50:54 ACTION: Steven to respond to Aaron on binding-exception or compute-exception (they are raised when the XPath 1.0 says "it is an error" or if the expression isn't syntacticly correct accordingly to the BNF) http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-forms/2010Jun/0005.html 15:50:54 Created ACTION-623 - Respond to Aaron on binding-exception or compute-exception (they are raised when the XPath 1.0 says "it is an error" or if the expression isn't syntacticly correct accordingly to the BNF) http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-forms/2010Jun/0005.html [on Steven Pemberton - due 2010-07-07]. 15:52:03 John: Leaving it unspecified of what happens when you iterate over deleted nodes 15:52:38 topic: Node creation functions 15:52:38 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2010Apr/0024.html 15:52:41 zakim, unmute me 15:52:41 Nick_van_den_Bleeken should no longer be muted 15:54:55 Nick: We first need to discuss what happens when you bind UI controls to nodes that aren't in the instance 15:56:31 Steven: When a control binds to nothing the control is hidden because it isn't relevant, on the other hand we have the lazy authoring 15:58:02 Nick: The node creation functions fulfil more use cases 15:58:56 Steven: Yes they solve more, you need to do a lot currently to insert an attribute 16:00:19 Steven: We definitely think more on making XForms more author friendly 16:01:20 -pfennell 16:01:22 -wiecha 16:01:23 -John_Boyer 16:01:23 John: We could also define where you could call those functions, they are very useful in actions and we could say for now that they will result in a compute-exception when used in a UI binding 16:01:24 -Steven 16:01:29 -Nick_van_den_Bleeken 16:01:30 IA_XForms()11:00AM has ended 16:01:32 Attendees were [IBM], Steven, wiecha, +44.782.483.aaaa, Nick_van_den_Bleeken, pfennell, +1.250.294.aabb, John_Boyer 16:01:37 rrsagent, make minutes 16:01:37 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/06/30-forms-minutes.html Steven 18:10:24 Zakim has left #forms