IRC log of dap on 2010-06-30

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:00:54 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #dap
13:00:54 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/06/30-dap-irc
13:00:56 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
13:00:56 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #dap
13:00:58 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be DAP
13:00:58 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see UW_DAP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 60 minutes
13:00:59 [trackbot]
Meeting: Device APIs and Policy Working Group Teleconference
13:00:59 [trackbot]
Date: 30 June 2010
13:01:15 [fjh]
Chair: Robin_Berjon, Frederick_Hirsch
13:01:27 [fjh]
Present+ Robin_Berjon, Frederick_Hirsch
13:02:15 [fjh]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Jun/0317.html
13:02:58 [fjh]
fjh has changed the topic to: DAP 3279 ; agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Jun/0317.html ; Please register Present+ First_Last; update zakim, aaaa is handle (fjh)
13:03:14 [fjh]
Regrets: Dominique_Hazael-Massieux, Thomas_Roessler, Dzung_Tran
13:03:30 [fjh]
Regrets+ Paddy_Byers
13:04:14 [fjh]
Regrets+ Suresh_Chitturi
13:04:32 [fjh]
Regrets+ Doug_Turner
13:05:09 [fjh]
Regrets+ James_Salsman
13:05:24 [fjh]
Regrets+ Marco_Marengo
13:51:06 [darobin]
darobin has joined #dap
13:57:12 [darobin]
trackbot: start meeting
13:57:14 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
13:57:16 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be DAP
13:57:16 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see UW_DAP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
13:57:17 [trackbot]
Meeting: Device APIs and Policy Working Group Teleconference
13:57:17 [trackbot]
Date: 30 June 2010
13:57:26 [darobin]
Chair: Frederick, Robin
13:57:31 [darobin]
Present+ Robin
13:58:07 [darobin]
FYI: there is no Team contact today, please be nice and stick to the rules (or else...)
13:58:48 [Zakim]
UW_DAP()10:00AM has now started
13:58:55 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
13:59:01 [fjh]
zakim, [IPcaller] is me
13:59:01 [Zakim]
+fjh; got it
13:59:09 [fjh]
Present- Robin
13:59:21 [AnssiK]
AnssiK has joined #dap
13:59:50 [LauraA]
LauraA has joined #dap
13:59:57 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
14:00:04 [LauraA]
Present+ LauraA
14:00:26 [Zakim]
+ +358.504.86aaaa
14:00:35 [ilkka]
zakim, aaaa is ilkka
14:00:35 [Zakim]
+ilkka; got it
14:00:43 [ilkka]
Present+ Ilkka_Oksanen
14:01:33 [fjh]
zakim, who is here?
14:01:37 [Zakim]
On the phone I see fjh, darobin, ilkka
14:01:41 [Zakim]
On IRC I see LauraA, AnssiK, darobin, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, tlr, lgombos, Marcos, wmaslowski, trackbot, dom, ilkka, ingmar
14:01:41 [nwidell]
nwidell has joined #dap
14:01:44 [fjh]
zakim, code?
14:01:50 [Zakim]
the conference code is 3279 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), fjh
14:02:04 [Zakim]
+ +358.504.86aabb
14:02:08 [AnssiK]
zakim, aabb is AnssiK
14:02:08 [Zakim]
+AnssiK; got it
14:02:34 [nwidell]
Present+ Niklas_Widell
14:02:47 [enewland]
enewland has joined #dap
14:02:54 [enewland]
present+ enewland
14:03:01 [maoteo]
maoteo has joined #dap
14:03:04 [fjh]
present- enewland
14:03:05 [Zakim]
+ +1.202.637.aacc
14:03:09 [fjh]
Present+ Erica_Newland
14:03:16 [enewland]
zakim, aacc is Erica_Newland
14:03:16 [Zakim]
+Erica_Newland; got it
14:03:24 [maoteo]
present+ Maria_Oteo
14:03:50 [Zakim]
+ +44.757.091.aadd
14:03:53 [richt]
richt has joined #dap
14:04:13 [AnssiK]
ScribeNick: AnssiK
14:04:46 [AnssiK]
TOPIC: Welcome, agenda review, scribe selection
14:05:10 [Zakim]
+ +44.777.541.aaee
14:05:21 [LauraA]
zakim, aaee is LauraA
14:05:21 [Zakim]
+LauraA; got it
14:05:22 [jmorris]
jmorris has joined #dap
14:05:37 [fjh]
F2F in London
14:05:44 [jmorris]
Present+ John_Morris
14:05:46 [fjh]
http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/43696/london2010/
14:05:47 [richt]
Present+ Richard_Tibbett
14:06:05 [AnssiK]
fjh: any thought on the f2f agenda, please speak up on the ML
14:06:20 [Zakim]
+Erica_Newland.a
14:06:37 [jmorris]
zakim, Erica_Newland.a is jmorris
14:06:37 [Zakim]
+jmorris; got it
14:06:39 [AnssiK]
... f2f is Wed-Fri, some people are not avail on Fri
14:07:07 [AnssiK]
... proposal to start early Wed & Thu, finish early on Fri
14:07:10 [fjh]
PAC registration and information available (F2F after London F2F, 4-5 November )
14:07:19 [fjh]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-device-apis/2010Jun/0001.html
14:07:27 [fjh]
Policy and Privacy requirements published
14:07:32 [fjh]
http://www.w3.org/News/2010#entry-8845
14:07:33 [AnssiK]
... remember that the TPAC 2010 is coming, beginning of November
14:07:48 [AnssiK]
Topic: Minutes Approval
14:07:50 [fjh]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Jun/att-0266/minutes-2010-06-23.html
14:08:19 [AnssiK]
Resolution: Minutes from 23 June 2010 approved
14:08:39 [AnssiK]
RESOLUTION: Minutes from 23 June 2010 approved
14:09:02 [fjh]
TOPIC: Policy - "checkPermissions"
14:09:11 [fjh]
zakim, who is here?
14:09:11 [Zakim]
On the phone I see fjh, darobin, ilkka, AnssiK, Erica_Newland, richt, LauraA, jmorris
14:09:13 [Zakim]
On IRC I see jmorris, richt, maoteo, enewland, nwidell, LauraA, AnssiK, darobin, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, tlr, lgombos, Marcos, wmaslowski, trackbot, dom, ilkka, ingmar
14:10:07 [AnssiK]
fjh: is this just a check to see if an API is available, unclear how this related to policy
14:10:47 [AnssiK]
darobin: the goal is to check whether the perm has been granted or not
14:11:01 [Zakim]
+Felix
14:11:15 [Zakim]
+ +46.1.07.15.aaff
14:11:25 [AnssiK]
... allow scripts to know permissions granted
14:11:33 [nwidell]
zakim, aaff is nwidell
14:11:33 [Zakim]
+nwidell; got it
14:12:16 [AnssiK]
... requestPermission() example: instead of asking multiple times group to ask user only once
14:12:41 [AnssiK]
fjh: need to clarify the model still
14:13:00 [AnssiK]
TOPIC: WICDA
14:13:07 [ingmar]
present+ Ingmar_Kliche
14:13:20 [Zakim]
+Susana
14:13:35 [AnssiK]
darobin: idea came from a need to augment existing WebIDL
14:14:02 [Zakim]
+ +1.425.214.aagg
14:14:20 [AnssiK]
... problem is WebIDL is not under control of this WG, also REST bindings require something similar
14:14:34 [AnssiK]
... infrastructure building from to use if people like it
14:14:34 [maoteo]
Zakim, +34 is maoteo
14:14:34 [Zakim]
sorry, maoteo, I do not recognize a party named '+34'
14:14:40 [AnssiK]
s/from/block/
14:14:55 [fjh]
robin notes WICDA is needed for REST work but may be useful for policy as well
14:15:09 [fjh]
zakim, who is here?
14:15:09 [Zakim]
On the phone I see fjh, darobin, ilkka, AnssiK, Erica_Newland, richt, LauraA, jmorris, Felix, nwidell, Susana, +1.425.214.aagg
14:15:12 [Zakim]
On IRC I see jmorris, richt, maoteo, enewland, nwidell, LauraA, AnssiK, darobin, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, tlr, lgombos, Marcos, wmaslowski, trackbot, dom, ilkka, ingmar
14:15:44 [AnssiK]
fjh: off agenda topic - policy buckets
14:15:44 [maoteo]
Zakim, aagg is maoteo
14:15:44 [Zakim]
+maoteo; got it
14:16:14 [fjh]
TOPIC: Policy buckets
14:16:16 [fjh]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Jun/0322.html
14:16:33 [fjh]
sysinfo - device characteristics, sensors, network
14:17:14 [bryan_sullivan]
bryan_sullivan has joined #dap
14:17:30 [bryan_sullivan]
present+ bryan_sullivan
14:17:40 [AnssiK]
jmorris: (1) device characteristics (2) environmental elements, sensing the ext environment around the device (3) network elements
14:18:00 [bryan_sullivan]
q+
14:18:07 [fjh]
ack bryan
14:18:42 [fjh]
bryan notes that buckets are similar to features in policy framework
14:18:58 [AnssiK]
(I'll have to take an important call for 5 mins)
14:19:10 [bryan_sullivan]
q-
14:20:00 [jmorris]
I can scribe for a few minutes
14:20:16 [jmorris]
TOPIC: APIs - SysInfo
14:20:32 [richt]
ScribeNick: jmorris
14:20:51 [jmorris]
robin: not sure how far we can go without James
14:20:52 [fjh]
I think it is useful to put the various categories in the document and then later tie to policy
14:21:11 [bryan_sullivan]
q+
14:21:18 [jmorris]
fjh: not sure James's concern was with the bucket idea
14:21:28 [fjh]
q+
14:21:31 [darobin]
ack bryan_sullivan
14:21:47 [jmorris]
robin: seems unlikely to reach consensus about publication without more conversation with James
14:22:03 [jmorris]
bryan: working on draft now, trying to address outstanding issues
14:22:21 [jmorris]
.. if there are outstanding issues, we need to get input on the list
14:22:39 [jmorris]
.. thinks there may be misunderstanding re intent of SysInfo API
14:22:43 [fjh]
proposal: add to sysinfo privacy section, subcategory of privacy categories, use text from John email
14:22:50 [bryan_sullivan]
q-
14:22:58 [jmorris]
.. but we need to be proactive
14:23:17 [jmorris]
robin: agree it should not drift, but we need to loop james in to conversation
14:23:33 [jmorris]
.. we can move forward later today or tomorrow on list conversation
14:23:58 [jmorris]
.. I only read bucket proposal quickly before call... but it matches discussion of last week
14:24:16 [jmorris]
fjh: could use some text from jmorris e-mail re buckets
14:24:25 [jmorris]
.. bryan, can you add that to draft
14:24:35 [darobin]
q?
14:24:46 [fjh]
action: bryan to add proposal from John Morris re buckets to sysinfo
14:24:46 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-203 - Add proposal from John Morris re buckets to sysinfo [on Bryan Sullivan - due 2010-07-07].
14:24:54 [darobin]
ack fjh
14:25:24 [jmorris]
fjh: Bryan, you have some non-controversial edits, plus debate with James
14:25:30 [bryan_sullivan]
q+
14:25:36 [jmorris]
q+
14:25:38 [darobin]
ack bryan_sullivan
14:26:01 [AnssiK]
ScribeNick: AnssiK
14:26:25 [darobin]
ACTION: Robin to step into the Bryan/James thread in the hope of helping find consensus
14:26:25 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-204 - Step into the Bryan/James thread in the hope of helping find consensus [on Robin Berjon - due 2010-07-07].
14:27:06 [fjh]
zakim, who is here?
14:27:06 [Zakim]
On the phone I see fjh, darobin, ilkka, AnssiK, Erica_Newland, richt, LauraA, jmorris, Felix, nwidell, Susana, maoteo
14:27:07 [AnssiK]
q+
14:27:09 [Zakim]
On IRC I see bryan_sullivan, jmorris, richt, maoteo, enewland, nwidell, LauraA, AnssiK, darobin, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, tlr, lgombos, Marcos, wmaslowski, trackbot, dom, ilkka,
14:27:11 [Zakim]
... ingmar
14:27:19 [fjh]
ack jmorris
14:27:21 [darobin]
ack jmorris
14:27:21 [bryan_sullivan]
q-
14:28:37 [fjh]
bryan summarizes - characteristics of the connection can indicate preferred connection, active connection
14:28:42 [jmorris]
okay, thanks
14:28:54 [fjh]
ack anssi
14:28:56 [darobin]
ack AnssiK
14:29:14 [fjh]
anssi asks for use cases regarding active connections
14:29:59 [bryan_sullivan]
q+
14:30:04 [fjh]
sounds like a layering problem
14:30:04 [darobin]
ack bryan_sullivan
14:30:06 [richt]
I would rather like to speak in technical WebIDL proposals on the mailing list where possible.
14:30:34 [fjh]
robin notes that all should comment on email list, including use cases
14:30:41 [AnssiK]
bryan_sullivan: relationship to onLine attribute of HTML5?
14:31:02 [fjh]
zakim, who is here?
14:31:02 [Zakim]
On the phone I see fjh, darobin, ilkka, AnssiK, Erica_Newland, richt, LauraA, jmorris, Felix, nwidell, Susana, maoteo
14:31:05 [Zakim]
On IRC I see bryan_sullivan, jmorris, richt, maoteo, enewland, nwidell, LauraA, AnssiK, darobin, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, tlr, lgombos, Marcos, wmaslowski, trackbot, dom, ilkka,
14:31:07 [Zakim]
... ingmar
14:31:17 [bryan_sullivan]
q-
14:31:33 [AnssiK]
... one potential UC is to allow the developer to choose the best bearer for the task
14:32:36 [fjh]
TOPIC: Contacts API
14:32:36 [AnssiK]
Topic: Contacts API
14:32:56 [darobin]
q?
14:32:56 [AnssiK]
richt: filtering added
14:33:04 [richt]
http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/198
14:33:19 [fjh]
ACTION-198?
14:33:19 [trackbot]
ACTION-198 -- Richard Tibbett to prepare Contacts for publications, with pubrules -- due 2010-06-29 -- PENDINGREVIEW
14:33:19 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/198
14:33:31 [darobin]
-> http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/contacts/WD1/ Contacts intermediate draft in the publication pipeline
14:33:44 [AnssiK]
... hoping to publish a new version immediately following the upcoming f2f
14:33:49 [darobin]
close action-198
14:33:49 [trackbot]
ACTION-198 Prepare Contacts for publications, with pubrules closed
14:34:26 [fjh]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Jun/0318.html
14:34:31 [AnssiK]
darobin: how to handle serviceId discussion without Suresh, perhaps a f2f topic
14:34:38 [fjh]
re serviceId and the use of PoCo schema
14:34:44 [AnssiK]
richt: f2f is ok
14:34:54 [AnssiK]
fjh: how about PoCo?
14:35:45 [AnssiK]
darobin: any updates from Mike/Mozilla?
14:36:07 [AnssiK]
richt: follow up
14:36:52 [AnssiK]
darobin: aligning with the Moz impl would be very helpful
14:37:27 [AnssiK]
... let's keep Mike in the loop
14:37:34 [AnssiK]
Topic: Capture
14:37:54 [darobin]
-> http://www.w3.org/mid/AANLkTiklztQ54_A2rJnhxMGgf0NGxvYuN0R470wVuqzS@mail.gmail.com Capture thread
14:38:23 [AnssiK]
darobin: not that much new stuff, levels, splitting, v1 vs. v2 split
14:38:44 [AnssiK]
... browser vendors would like to see simpler v1
14:39:23 [AnssiK]
... wait for more input, or go split it
14:40:09 [richt]
IMO, we should create a simpler v1 for browser vendors if that is their implementation plan - it seems like Mozilla and Google are persuing a simpler version and we should support that effort.
14:40:14 [AnssiK]
... Level 1: using <input>, Level 2: programmatic capture
14:40:39 [fjh]
level 3 discovery of available devices etc
14:40:45 [AnssiK]
... Prague f2f decision was to do L1 and L2 in the same doc, however browser vendors would like to see the spec split
14:41:12 [AnssiK]
bryan: if split means faster implementations then this is a Good Thing
14:42:14 [AnssiK]
darobin: hearing split would be preferred, any objections to that?
14:42:42 [AnssiK]
ilkka: how would the schedule look like re v1 and v2?
14:42:56 [AnssiK]
bryan: we can work on parallel
14:43:13 [fjh]
s/bryan/robin
14:43:38 [fjh]
s/bryan: if split/robin: if split
14:43:58 [richt]
However, I wonder whether the browser's implementation plans on <input> are not already covered in HTML5 ? It seems the only addition is a source attribute. That probably doesn't require a separate spec right?
14:44:10 [AnssiK]
ilkka: would like to see the programmatic API worked on in parallel to <input> based approach
14:44:34 [darobin]
PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Capture is split into levels; those may progress in parallel
14:44:45 [darobin]
RESOLUTION: Capture is split into levels; those may progress in parallel
14:45:16 [richt]
q+
14:45:34 [fjh]
ack richt
14:45:39 [AnssiK]
darobin: any other API topics?
14:46:10 [Zakim]
-maoteo
14:46:11 [Zakim]
-darobin
14:46:13 [Zakim]
-richt
14:46:17 [Zakim]
-fjh
14:46:17 [Zakim]
-Erica_Newland
14:46:18 [richt]
richt has left #dap
14:46:20 [Zakim]
-LauraA
14:46:20 [fjh]
rrsagent, generate minutes
14:46:20 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/06/30-dap-minutes.html fjh
14:46:24 [jmorris]
jmorris has left #dap
14:46:25 [Zakim]
-ilkka
14:46:27 [Zakim]
-nwidell
14:46:31 [Zakim]
-Felix
14:46:33 [Zakim]
-AnssiK
14:46:35 [Zakim]
-jmorris
14:46:44 [Zakim]
-Susana
14:46:46 [Zakim]
UW_DAP()10:00AM has ended
14:46:48 [Zakim]
Attendees were fjh, darobin, +358.504.86aaaa, ilkka, +358.504.86aabb, AnssiK, +1.202.637.aacc, Erica_Newland, +44.757.091.aadd, richt, +44.777.541.aaee, LauraA, jmorris, Felix,
14:46:50 [Zakim]
... +46.1.07.15.aaff, nwidell, Susana, +1.425.214.aagg, maoteo
14:47:03 [fjh]
s/trackbot: start meeting//
14:47:15 [fjh]
s/Meeting: Device APIs and Policy Working Group Teleconference//
14:47:22 [fjh]
s/Date: 30 June 2010//
14:47:30 [fjh]
s/Chair: Frederick, Robin//
14:47:44 [fjh]
s/ML/mailing list/
14:48:54 [fjh]
s/the goal is to/checkPermission checks if permissions already granted, requestPermission allows grouping items like calendar, geoloc etc into a single request/
14:49:10 [fjh]
s/(I'll have to take an important call for 5 mins)//
14:49:35 [fjh]
rrsagent, generate minutes
14:49:35 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/06/30-dap-minutes.html fjh
14:50:41 [fjh]
s/need to clarify the model still/so requestPermission is similar to features. All this makes clear we need to clarify the model /
14:50:53 [fjh]
s/whether the perm has been granted or not//
14:51:09 [fjh]
rrsagent, generate minutes
14:51:09 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/06/30-dap-minutes.html fjh