13:00:54 RRSAgent has joined #dap 13:00:54 logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/06/30-dap-irc 13:00:56 RRSAgent, make logs world 13:00:56 Zakim has joined #dap 13:00:58 Zakim, this will be DAP 13:00:58 ok, trackbot; I see UW_DAP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 60 minutes 13:00:59 Meeting: Device APIs and Policy Working Group Teleconference 13:00:59 Date: 30 June 2010 13:01:15 Chair: Robin_Berjon, Frederick_Hirsch 13:01:27 Present+ Robin_Berjon, Frederick_Hirsch 13:02:15 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Jun/0317.html 13:02:58 fjh has changed the topic to: DAP 3279 ; agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Jun/0317.html ; Please register Present+ First_Last; update zakim, aaaa is handle (fjh) 13:03:14 Regrets: Dominique_Hazael-Massieux, Thomas_Roessler, Dzung_Tran 13:03:30 Regrets+ Paddy_Byers 13:04:14 Regrets+ Suresh_Chitturi 13:04:32 Regrets+ Doug_Turner 13:05:09 Regrets+ James_Salsman 13:05:24 Regrets+ Marco_Marengo 13:51:06 darobin has joined #dap 13:57:12 trackbot: start meeting 13:57:14 RRSAgent, make logs world 13:57:16 Zakim, this will be DAP 13:57:16 ok, trackbot; I see UW_DAP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes 13:57:17 Meeting: Device APIs and Policy Working Group Teleconference 13:57:17 Date: 30 June 2010 13:57:26 Chair: Frederick, Robin 13:57:31 Present+ Robin 13:58:07 FYI: there is no Team contact today, please be nice and stick to the rules (or else...) 13:58:48 UW_DAP()10:00AM has now started 13:58:55 +[IPcaller] 13:59:01 zakim, [IPcaller] is me 13:59:01 +fjh; got it 13:59:09 Present- Robin 13:59:21 AnssiK has joined #dap 13:59:50 LauraA has joined #dap 13:59:57 +[IPcaller] 14:00:04 Present+ LauraA 14:00:26 + +358.504.86aaaa 14:00:35 zakim, aaaa is ilkka 14:00:35 +ilkka; got it 14:00:43 Present+ Ilkka_Oksanen 14:01:33 zakim, who is here? 14:01:37 On the phone I see fjh, darobin, ilkka 14:01:41 On IRC I see LauraA, AnssiK, darobin, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, tlr, lgombos, Marcos, wmaslowski, trackbot, dom, ilkka, ingmar 14:01:41 nwidell has joined #dap 14:01:44 zakim, code? 14:01:50 the conference code is 3279 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), fjh 14:02:04 + +358.504.86aabb 14:02:08 zakim, aabb is AnssiK 14:02:08 +AnssiK; got it 14:02:34 Present+ Niklas_Widell 14:02:47 enewland has joined #dap 14:02:54 present+ enewland 14:03:01 maoteo has joined #dap 14:03:04 present- enewland 14:03:05 + +1.202.637.aacc 14:03:09 Present+ Erica_Newland 14:03:16 zakim, aacc is Erica_Newland 14:03:16 +Erica_Newland; got it 14:03:24 present+ Maria_Oteo 14:03:50 + +44.757.091.aadd 14:03:53 richt has joined #dap 14:04:13 ScribeNick: AnssiK 14:04:46 TOPIC: Welcome, agenda review, scribe selection 14:05:10 + +44.777.541.aaee 14:05:21 zakim, aaee is LauraA 14:05:21 +LauraA; got it 14:05:22 jmorris has joined #dap 14:05:37 F2F in London 14:05:44 Present+ John_Morris 14:05:46 http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/43696/london2010/ 14:05:47 Present+ Richard_Tibbett 14:06:05 fjh: any thought on the f2f agenda, please speak up on the ML 14:06:20 +Erica_Newland.a 14:06:37 zakim, Erica_Newland.a is jmorris 14:06:37 +jmorris; got it 14:06:39 ... f2f is Wed-Fri, some people are not avail on Fri 14:07:07 ... proposal to start early Wed & Thu, finish early on Fri 14:07:10 PAC registration and information available (F2F after London F2F, 4-5 November ) 14:07:19 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-device-apis/2010Jun/0001.html 14:07:27 Policy and Privacy requirements published 14:07:32 http://www.w3.org/News/2010#entry-8845 14:07:33 ... remember that the TPAC 2010 is coming, beginning of November 14:07:48 Topic: Minutes Approval 14:07:50 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Jun/att-0266/minutes-2010-06-23.html 14:08:19 Resolution: Minutes from 23 June 2010 approved 14:08:39 RESOLUTION: Minutes from 23 June 2010 approved 14:09:02 TOPIC: Policy - "checkPermissions" 14:09:11 zakim, who is here? 14:09:11 On the phone I see fjh, darobin, ilkka, AnssiK, Erica_Newland, richt, LauraA, jmorris 14:09:13 On IRC I see jmorris, richt, maoteo, enewland, nwidell, LauraA, AnssiK, darobin, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, tlr, lgombos, Marcos, wmaslowski, trackbot, dom, ilkka, ingmar 14:10:07 fjh: is this just a check to see if an API is available, unclear how this related to policy 14:10:47 darobin: the goal is to check whether the perm has been granted or not 14:11:01 +Felix 14:11:15 + +46.1.07.15.aaff 14:11:25 ... allow scripts to know permissions granted 14:11:33 zakim, aaff is nwidell 14:11:33 +nwidell; got it 14:12:16 ... requestPermission() example: instead of asking multiple times group to ask user only once 14:12:41 fjh: need to clarify the model still 14:13:00 TOPIC: WICDA 14:13:07 present+ Ingmar_Kliche 14:13:20 +Susana 14:13:35 darobin: idea came from a need to augment existing WebIDL 14:14:02 + +1.425.214.aagg 14:14:20 ... problem is WebIDL is not under control of this WG, also REST bindings require something similar 14:14:34 ... infrastructure building from to use if people like it 14:14:34 Zakim, +34 is maoteo 14:14:34 sorry, maoteo, I do not recognize a party named '+34' 14:14:40 s/from/block/ 14:14:55 robin notes WICDA is needed for REST work but may be useful for policy as well 14:15:09 zakim, who is here? 14:15:09 On the phone I see fjh, darobin, ilkka, AnssiK, Erica_Newland, richt, LauraA, jmorris, Felix, nwidell, Susana, +1.425.214.aagg 14:15:12 On IRC I see jmorris, richt, maoteo, enewland, nwidell, LauraA, AnssiK, darobin, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, tlr, lgombos, Marcos, wmaslowski, trackbot, dom, ilkka, ingmar 14:15:44 fjh: off agenda topic - policy buckets 14:15:44 Zakim, aagg is maoteo 14:15:44 +maoteo; got it 14:16:14 TOPIC: Policy buckets 14:16:16 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Jun/0322.html 14:16:33 sysinfo - device characteristics, sensors, network 14:17:14 bryan_sullivan has joined #dap 14:17:30 present+ bryan_sullivan 14:17:40 jmorris: (1) device characteristics (2) environmental elements, sensing the ext environment around the device (3) network elements 14:18:00 q+ 14:18:07 ack bryan 14:18:42 bryan notes that buckets are similar to features in policy framework 14:18:58 (I'll have to take an important call for 5 mins) 14:19:10 q- 14:20:00 I can scribe for a few minutes 14:20:16 TOPIC: APIs - SysInfo 14:20:32 ScribeNick: jmorris 14:20:51 robin: not sure how far we can go without James 14:20:52 I think it is useful to put the various categories in the document and then later tie to policy 14:21:11 q+ 14:21:18 fjh: not sure James's concern was with the bucket idea 14:21:28 q+ 14:21:31 ack bryan_sullivan 14:21:47 robin: seems unlikely to reach consensus about publication without more conversation with James 14:22:03 bryan: working on draft now, trying to address outstanding issues 14:22:21 .. if there are outstanding issues, we need to get input on the list 14:22:39 .. thinks there may be misunderstanding re intent of SysInfo API 14:22:43 proposal: add to sysinfo privacy section, subcategory of privacy categories, use text from John email 14:22:50 q- 14:22:58 .. but we need to be proactive 14:23:17 robin: agree it should not drift, but we need to loop james in to conversation 14:23:33 .. we can move forward later today or tomorrow on list conversation 14:23:58 .. I only read bucket proposal quickly before call... but it matches discussion of last week 14:24:16 fjh: could use some text from jmorris e-mail re buckets 14:24:25 .. bryan, can you add that to draft 14:24:35 q? 14:24:46 action: bryan to add proposal from John Morris re buckets to sysinfo 14:24:46 Created ACTION-203 - Add proposal from John Morris re buckets to sysinfo [on Bryan Sullivan - due 2010-07-07]. 14:24:54 ack fjh 14:25:24 fjh: Bryan, you have some non-controversial edits, plus debate with James 14:25:30 q+ 14:25:36 q+ 14:25:38 ack bryan_sullivan 14:26:01 ScribeNick: AnssiK 14:26:25 ACTION: Robin to step into the Bryan/James thread in the hope of helping find consensus 14:26:25 Created ACTION-204 - Step into the Bryan/James thread in the hope of helping find consensus [on Robin Berjon - due 2010-07-07]. 14:27:06 zakim, who is here? 14:27:06 On the phone I see fjh, darobin, ilkka, AnssiK, Erica_Newland, richt, LauraA, jmorris, Felix, nwidell, Susana, maoteo 14:27:07 q+ 14:27:09 On IRC I see bryan_sullivan, jmorris, richt, maoteo, enewland, nwidell, LauraA, AnssiK, darobin, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, tlr, lgombos, Marcos, wmaslowski, trackbot, dom, ilkka, 14:27:11 ... ingmar 14:27:19 ack jmorris 14:27:21 ack jmorris 14:27:21 q- 14:28:37 bryan summarizes - characteristics of the connection can indicate preferred connection, active connection 14:28:42 okay, thanks 14:28:54 ack anssi 14:28:56 ack AnssiK 14:29:14 anssi asks for use cases regarding active connections 14:29:59 q+ 14:30:04 sounds like a layering problem 14:30:04 ack bryan_sullivan 14:30:06 I would rather like to speak in technical WebIDL proposals on the mailing list where possible. 14:30:34 robin notes that all should comment on email list, including use cases 14:30:41 bryan_sullivan: relationship to onLine attribute of HTML5? 14:31:02 zakim, who is here? 14:31:02 On the phone I see fjh, darobin, ilkka, AnssiK, Erica_Newland, richt, LauraA, jmorris, Felix, nwidell, Susana, maoteo 14:31:05 On IRC I see bryan_sullivan, jmorris, richt, maoteo, enewland, nwidell, LauraA, AnssiK, darobin, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, tlr, lgombos, Marcos, wmaslowski, trackbot, dom, ilkka, 14:31:07 ... ingmar 14:31:17 q- 14:31:33 ... one potential UC is to allow the developer to choose the best bearer for the task 14:32:36 TOPIC: Contacts API 14:32:36 Topic: Contacts API 14:32:56 q? 14:32:56 richt: filtering added 14:33:04 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/198 14:33:19 ACTION-198? 14:33:19 ACTION-198 -- Richard Tibbett to prepare Contacts for publications, with pubrules -- due 2010-06-29 -- PENDINGREVIEW 14:33:19 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/198 14:33:31 -> http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/contacts/WD1/ Contacts intermediate draft in the publication pipeline 14:33:44 ... hoping to publish a new version immediately following the upcoming f2f 14:33:49 close action-198 14:33:49 ACTION-198 Prepare Contacts for publications, with pubrules closed 14:34:26 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Jun/0318.html 14:34:31 darobin: how to handle serviceId discussion without Suresh, perhaps a f2f topic 14:34:38 re serviceId and the use of PoCo schema 14:34:44 richt: f2f is ok 14:34:54 fjh: how about PoCo? 14:35:45 darobin: any updates from Mike/Mozilla? 14:36:07 richt: follow up 14:36:52 darobin: aligning with the Moz impl would be very helpful 14:37:27 ... let's keep Mike in the loop 14:37:34 Topic: Capture 14:37:54 -> http://www.w3.org/mid/AANLkTiklztQ54_A2rJnhxMGgf0NGxvYuN0R470wVuqzS@mail.gmail.com Capture thread 14:38:23 darobin: not that much new stuff, levels, splitting, v1 vs. v2 split 14:38:44 ... browser vendors would like to see simpler v1 14:39:23 ... wait for more input, or go split it 14:40:09 IMO, we should create a simpler v1 for browser vendors if that is their implementation plan - it seems like Mozilla and Google are persuing a simpler version and we should support that effort. 14:40:14 ... Level 1: using , Level 2: programmatic capture 14:40:39 level 3 discovery of available devices etc 14:40:45 ... Prague f2f decision was to do L1 and L2 in the same doc, however browser vendors would like to see the spec split 14:41:12 bryan: if split means faster implementations then this is a Good Thing 14:42:14 darobin: hearing split would be preferred, any objections to that? 14:42:42 ilkka: how would the schedule look like re v1 and v2? 14:42:56 bryan: we can work on parallel 14:43:13 s/bryan/robin 14:43:38 s/bryan: if split/robin: if split 14:43:58 However, I wonder whether the browser's implementation plans on are not already covered in HTML5 ? It seems the only addition is a source attribute. That probably doesn't require a separate spec right? 14:44:10 ilkka: would like to see the programmatic API worked on in parallel to based approach 14:44:34 PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Capture is split into levels; those may progress in parallel 14:44:45 RESOLUTION: Capture is split into levels; those may progress in parallel 14:45:16 q+ 14:45:34 ack richt 14:45:39 darobin: any other API topics? 14:46:10 -maoteo 14:46:11 -darobin 14:46:13 -richt 14:46:17 -fjh 14:46:17 -Erica_Newland 14:46:18 richt has left #dap 14:46:20 -LauraA 14:46:20 rrsagent, generate minutes 14:46:20 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/06/30-dap-minutes.html fjh 14:46:24 jmorris has left #dap 14:46:25 -ilkka 14:46:27 -nwidell 14:46:31 -Felix 14:46:33 -AnssiK 14:46:35 -jmorris 14:46:44 -Susana 14:46:46 UW_DAP()10:00AM has ended 14:46:48 Attendees were fjh, darobin, +358.504.86aaaa, ilkka, +358.504.86aabb, AnssiK, +1.202.637.aacc, Erica_Newland, +44.757.091.aadd, richt, +44.777.541.aaee, LauraA, jmorris, Felix, 14:46:50 ... +46.1.07.15.aaff, nwidell, Susana, +1.425.214.aagg, maoteo 14:47:03 s/trackbot: start meeting// 14:47:15 s/Meeting: Device APIs and Policy Working Group Teleconference// 14:47:22 s/Date: 30 June 2010// 14:47:30 s/Chair: Frederick, Robin// 14:47:44 s/ML/mailing list/ 14:48:54 s/the goal is to/checkPermission checks if permissions already granted, requestPermission allows grouping items like calendar, geoloc etc into a single request/ 14:49:10 s/(I'll have to take an important call for 5 mins)// 14:49:35 rrsagent, generate minutes 14:49:35 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/06/30-dap-minutes.html fjh 14:50:41 s/need to clarify the model still/so requestPermission is similar to features. All this makes clear we need to clarify the model / 14:50:53 s/whether the perm has been granted or not// 14:51:09 rrsagent, generate minutes 14:51:09 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/06/30-dap-minutes.html fjh