13:49:57 RRSAgent has joined #rdfa 13:49:57 logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/06/24-rdfa-irc 13:51:01 manu has changed the topic to: RDFa WG telecon: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2010Jun/0084.html (manu) 13:51:13 trackbot, prepare telecon 13:51:15 RRSAgent, make logs world 13:51:17 Zakim, this will be 7332 13:51:17 ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFa()10:00AM scheduled to start in 9 minutes 13:51:18 Meeting: RDFa Working Group Teleconference 13:51:18 Date: 24 June 2010 13:51:25 Chair: Manu 13:51:33 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2010Jun/0084.html 13:52:19 ivan has joined #rdfa 13:52:30 Present: Manu, Ivan, Toby 13:52:34 Regrets: Markus 13:55:52 Benjamin has joined #rdfa 13:56:34 yep 13:56:51 I may run out earlier to get some breakfast before the conference starts 13:57:56 Hi is the problem with european numbers fixed in the telcon system? 13:58:43 not that I know of, benjamin 13:58:45 sorry about that 13:58:57 some eu providers changed something 13:59:01 and it is a bit messy 13:59:18 OK then I'll call the US number 13:59:26 zakim, code? 13:59:26 the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), manu 13:59:50 SW_RDFa()10:00AM has now started 13:59:57 +[IPcaller] 13:59:57 zakim, I am IPCaller 13:59:58 ok, manu, I now associate you with [IPcaller] 14:00:16 zakim, dial ivan-voip 14:00:16 ok, ivan; the call is being made 14:00:17 +Ivan 14:00:29 + +63.12.057.5aaaa 14:01:24 zakim, +63.12.057.5aaaa is Benjamin 14:01:24 +Benjamin; got it 14:01:41 + +1.612.217.aabb 14:01:48 ShaneM has joined #rdfa 14:02:31 zakim, who is noisy? 14:02:42 manu, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds 14:03:30 Changes that Facebook agreed to: http://groups.google.com/group/open-graph-protocol/browse_thread/thread/cc03368ef0d12c1a 14:03:39 zakim, who is noisy? 14:03:50 manu, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: [IPcaller] (22%), +1.612.217.aabb (25%) 14:03:59 zakim, aabb is ShaneM 14:03:59 +ShaneM; got it 14:04:17 zakim, who is on the phone? 14:04:17 On the phone I see [IPcaller], Ivan, Benjamin, ShaneM 14:06:41 Scribe: Benjamin 14:06:47 scribenick: Benjamin 14:08:41 Topic: ISSUE-26: Error Reporting Mechanism 14:08:48 q+ 14:08:51 http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/26 14:09:23 ack ivan 14:10:13 manu: Two proposals an event mechansim and second to puit error triples in a named RDF graph 14:10:39 ivan: It's difficult to discuss this without Mark 14:11:48 ... Mark was not fond of putting error triples into the default graph 14:12:49 ivan: Using a named graph as target for error triples needs to support named graphs in toold like the distiller. 14:13:20 tinkster has joined #rdfa 14:14:30 s/toold/tools 14:15:40 manu: Callback functions can be used hook for dealing with warnings and errors in the RDFa API. 14:16:12 q+ to ask about graphs and opaque processing 14:16:18 ack shanem 14:16:18 ShaneM, you wanted to ask about graphs and opaque processing 14:16:19 ... otherwise parsers and tools may access these triples in an error graph 14:17:08 ShaneM: A service like the distiller returns triples from a URL. 14:17:24 ... there is no way to distinct between different graphs 14:17:34 q+ 14:18:13 ack IPcaller 14:18:34 ... It has to provide additional paramaters to let users extract just the error triples 14:18:38 zakim, ipcaller is manu 14:18:38 +manu; got it 14:19:11 q+ 14:19:26 ack [[IPcaller] 14:19:42 manu: Either you are using a programming language to consume RDF triples from a page. Then you can access some error graphs as named graph. 14:20:04 ack ipcaller 14:20:04 ack 14:20:12 ack 14:21:18 Manu: We can identify graphs via the RDFa Processor API = parse(foo, graph="default)" or "http://rdfaprocessor.example.com/parse?graph=default" 14:21:19 ivan: Everything is doable. But why is it so important to put the error triples in their own graph. 14:22:12 ... We can store it in the default graph and just classify them as error triples. 14:23:15 manu: We should keep page triples separate from other kind of triples 14:23:51 q+ 14:24:46 q+ to discuss the downside 14:24:47 ack ivan 14:24:54 ... otherwise it is hard to decide whether a triple came from the processor or from the original page 14:26:03 ivan: If we can add error handling to the API level, I am fine with it. But I think if we add error graphs in RDFa we also should define a GET interface to retrieve these. 14:26:53 ack shanem 14:26:53 ShaneM, you wanted to discuss the downside 14:27:02 ... it will increase the complexity 14:27:39 ShaneM: RDFa depends on RDF normatively. But RDF does not define named graphs. 14:29:17 q+ 14:29:28 ack ivan 14:29:49 -manu 14:29:52 bah! 14:29:54 manu: We should not explain entire Named Graph concepts in our spec. 14:29:56 dropped, one sec. 14:30:22 +[IPcaller] 14:30:45 zakim, who is here? 14:30:45 On the phone I see Ivan, Benjamin, ShaneM, [IPcaller] 14:30:46 On IRC I see tinkster, ShaneM, Benjamin, ivan, RRSAgent, Zakim, manu, csarven, trackbot 14:30:53 ShaneM: We really can't handle the problem. But it's there. 14:31:57 about="" rel="xhv:stylesheet" resource="blablab" 14:32:32 ShaneM: RDFa core says that a processor should not store a triple in the default graph if it is not from the document. 14:34:27 ivan: It's the first time we are talking about adding triples to the default graphs that do not come from the document. 14:35:22 Toby: error reporting should belong entirely to the API. non-RDFa-API processors may want to include some error logging/reporting mechanism, but they should choose a mechanism appropriate for their environment - we shouldn't foist one onto them. 14:35:58 q+ 14:36:02 ack ivan 14:36:28 Manu: I disagree, Toby - I'd really like to be able to expose warnings and errors from librdfa, if we depend on the RDFa API, I can't do that in a standard way. 14:37:08 ivan: RDFa applications often extract just the triples and do not need the RDFa API. 14:39:17 note: http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-sparql-query/#namedGraphs 14:41:47 manu: Each processor should have a parameter to let users retrieve non-error triples or error triples. 14:42:21 ShaneM: On a dynamic page you may not want to do two requests. 14:43:19 q+ 14:43:24 manu: RDFa Core: If a processor throws any errors, these are stored inside a processor graph 14:44:13 zakim, mute shanem 14:44:13 ShaneM should now be muted 14:45:38 ACTION: Manu to write up RDFa Processor warning/error reporting language and send to e-mail mailing list. 14:45:38 Created ACTION-32 - Write up RDFa Processor warning/error reporting language and send to e-mail mailing list. [on Manu Sporny - due 2010-07-01]. 14:46:02 ACTION: Ivan to specify error/warning triple vocabulary and send to mailing list.. 14:46:02 Created ACTION-33 - Specify error/warning triple vocabulary and send to mailing list.. [on Ivan Herman - due 2010-07-01]. 14:46:45 zakim, drop me 14:46:45 Ivan is being disconnected 14:46:47 -Ivan 14:46:47 -[IPcaller] 14:46:55 -Benjamin 14:46:58 -ShaneM 14:46:59 SW_RDFa()10:00AM has ended 14:47:00 Attendees were Ivan, Benjamin, +1.612.217.aabb, ShaneM, manu, [IPcaller] 14:47:09 bye all 14:53:05 rrsagent, make minutes 14:53:05 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/06/24-rdfa-minutes.html Benjamin 15:48:30 zakim, bye 15:48:30 Zakim has left #rdfa 15:48:32 rrsagent, bye 15:48:32 I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2010/06/24-rdfa-actions.rdf : 15:48:32 ACTION: Manu to write up RDFa Processor warning/error reporting language and send to e-mail mailing list. [1] 15:48:32 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/06/24-rdfa-irc#T14-45-38 15:48:32 ACTION: Ivan to specify error/warning triple vocabulary and send to mailing list.. [2] 15:48:32 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/06/24-rdfa-irc#T14-46-02 15:48:34 trackbot, bye 15:48:34 trackbot has left #rdfa 15:48:43 manu has left #rdfa