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15:56:17 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/06/22-soap-jms-irc
15:56:19 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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15:56:21 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be SJMS
15:56:21 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WS_SOAP-JM()12:00PM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
15:56:22 <trackbot> Meeting: SOAP-JMS Binding Working Group Teleconference
15:56:22 <trackbot> Date: 22 June 2010
15:56:45 <Zakim> WS_SOAP-JM()12:00PM has now started
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15:58:23 <mphillip> mphillip has changed the topic to: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-soap-jms/2010Jun/0022.html (mphillip)
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16:02:33 <eric> eric has joined #soap-jms
16:03:01 <eric> Zakim, aacc is eric
16:03:01 <Zakim> +eric; got it
16:04:09 <eric> Mark - you having difficulty dialing in?
16:04:26 <mphillip> yes, Zakim not recognising the tones 
16:04:51 <mphillip> trying the US number
16:04:59 <Zakim> + +44.196.287.aaee
16:05:01 <mphillip> better :-)
16:05:17 <mphillip> Zakim, aaee is Mark
16:05:17 <Zakim> +Mark; got it
16:05:25 <mphillip> Chair: Eric
16:05:39 <mphillip> TOPIC: 1) Appointment of the scribe
16:05:44 <mphillip> Scribe: Mark
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16:05:56 <mphillip> TOPIC: 2) Approval of prior meeting minutes
16:06:18 <mphillip> Minutes approved
16:06:26 <mphillip> Topic: 3) Review the agenda
16:07:18 <mphillip> Mark: Would like to add new issue regarding landing page and broken like
16:07:32 <mphillip> action Eric to fix borken linkon landing page 
16:07:32 <trackbot> Created ACTION-181 - Fix borken linkon landing page  [on Eric Johnson - due 2010-06-29].
16:07:51 <mphillip> Mark: See http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-soap-jms/2010Jun/0025.html
16:08:05 <mphillip> TOPIC: 4) Review action items
16:08:15 <mphillip> Eric: No progress on actions 
16:08:22 <mphillip> Peter: No progress on actions 
16:08:34 <mphillip> TOPIC: 5) URI specification:
16:08:36 <mphillip> No progress
16:08:45 <mphillip> TOPIC: 6) Raised spec issues:
16:08:48 <eric> http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/soapjms/tracker/issues/39
16:09:35 <mphillip> Amy: Gives overview of issue 
16:11:35 <eric> Text of proposal:
16:11:38 <mphillip> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-soap-jms/2010Jun/0023.html  
16:12:21 <eric> The original rule : 
16:12:21 <eric>     S MUST copy the JMSMessageID from the original
16:12:21 <eric>     request to the JMSCorrelationID of the response
16:12:21 <eric> Becomes :
16:12:21 <eric>     if there is no JMSCorrelationId set in the request, 
16:12:22 <eric>         S MUST copy the JMSMessageID from the original 
16:12:24 <eric>         request to the JMSCorrelationID of the response.
16:12:26 <eric>     else 
16:12:28 <eric>          S MUST copy the JMSCorrelationID from original 
16:12:30 <eric>         request to the JMSCorrelationID of the response.
16:12:35 <mphillip> Mark: Very much likes the new 2038 protocol proposed by David  in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-soap-jms/2010Jun/0023.html - suggest we adopt it
16:13:51 <mphillip> Derek: Makes perfect sense, but concerned that this would be a misuse of correlation ID - could we set another message property rather than re-using correlation Id?
16:16:02 <mphillip> Amy: The proposal effectively makes correlation Id into a conversation Id - it is a really clever trick, and it is in the mainstream of JMS to set the Correlation Id first - uses existing technology rather than inventing new headers
16:17:44 <mphillip> Mark: It is a pretty standard technique.. it is used by MQ as a common correlation pattern (COPY CORRELID).   JMS makes it more useful because the MsgId can't be set by the sender
16:18:15 <mphillip> Amy: Worried that a new header starts to open the floodgates towards re-implementing WS-Addressing
16:19:06 <mphillip> Peter: Agree - we should not invent new properties, but curious about how existing JMS bridges support correlId.  Generally think it is a good idea
16:20:19 <mphillip> DereK: Definitely agree this issue raises a legitimate concern
16:20:57 <mphillip> Derek: and the use case raised by David is a good one
16:21:17 <mphillip> All: No objections to opening this as an issue
16:22:47 <mphillip>  Eric: If we specify the use of CorrellationId then it might prohibit using correlation Id for som advanced patterns, but that's OK because WS-Addressing can be used in those cases
16:23:49 <mphillip> Eric: The other option is some other message property for correlation.  The disadvantage is that every message has the overhad of another property
16:25:24 <mphillip> Mark: *Could* be done today with a custom property which would appear in the RequestURI rather than inventing a new property (but I still like David's  proposal better)
16:26:01 <mphillip> Eric: Could be done with temporary reply Qs
16:26:14 <mphillip> Peter: and this proposal doesn't preclude temporary Qs
16:27:36 <mphillip> Eric: So is David's proposal flexible enough or do we need more flexibility
16:27:45 <mphillip> Amy: Votes for proposal
16:27:48 <mphillip> Mark: +1
16:29:22 <mphillip> Derek: +1 - does not cater for all fringe use-cases but it's a good solution
16:29:57 <mphillip> Peter: +1 Curious to see how JMS bridges would handle it, but this is good
16:31:53 <mphillip> Eric: in favour too - looked back through archives and didn't find anything to conflict with this
16:34:00 <mphillip> Mark: May be better to add to the spec as a separate assertion
16:35:38 <mphillip> Mark: and add new tests
16:36:45 <mphillip> Amy: Will this send us back to last cal?
16:36:54 <mphillip> Eric: No, don't believe so
16:38:10 <mphillip> Amy: If this is important enough to go in, then it must be normative and documented as one of the significant differences between CR and PR
16:39:26 <Yves> agree that it should be documented
16:43:10 <mphillip> Peter: Does this get manifested in any new properties that might be included in WSDL etc.?
16:43:56 <mphillip> Derek: No this is behaviour determined solely by the message sender - i.e. whether to set the correlation id or not
16:46:37 <mphillip> Eric: so we are generally agreed on the proposal.  Need to check how much of the binding spec. needs to change.
16:47:08 <mphillip> Action Mark to check how much of the binding spec. needs to change and make a proposal
16:47:08 <trackbot> Created ACTION-182 - Check how much of the binding spec. needs to change and make a proposal [on Mark Phillips - due 2010-06-29].
16:47:51 <mphillip> Eric: We will vote on the proposal next week
16:48:07 <mphillip> Eric: Please discuss concerns or newsuggestion on the list
16:48:44 <mphillip> TOPIC: 7) Accepting proposals to close open issues
16:48:44 <mphillip> None
16:48:53 <mphillip> TOPIC: 8) Accepting applied resolutions:
16:48:57 <mphillip> http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/soapjms/tracker/issues/38
16:49:31 <mphillip> Action: Eric to apply resolution to issue 38
16:49:31 <mphillip> Action Eric to apply resolution to issue 38
16:49:32 <trackbot> Created ACTION-183 - Apply resolution to issue 38 [on Eric Johnson - due 2010-06-29].
16:49:32 <trackbot> Created ACTION-184 - Apply resolution to issue 38 [on Eric Johnson - due 2010-06-29].
16:50:08 <mphillip> TOPIC: 9) Moving to PR
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16:53:02 <mphillip1> Eric: So any one of us could submit a patch with the latest changes and if a vendor's implementation passes the CXF tests, then we reach the criteria for PR
16:53:47 <mphillip1> Peter: The test validation is based on JAX-WS clients with validation performed by CXF interceptors
16:54:41 <mphillip1> Peter: uses ACtiveMQ but other JMS providers could be plugged in
16:55:00 <mphillip1> TOPIC: 10) AOB?
16:55:58 <mphillip1> Eric: Should we skip meeting following July 4th?
16:56:18 <mphillip1> All: No vacation plans
16:57:01 <Zakim> -Mark
16:57:02 <Zakim> -eric
16:57:02 <Zakim> -alewis
16:57:04 <Zakim> - +1.781.280.aadd
16:57:04 <Zakim> - +1.708.246.aabb
16:57:05 <Zakim> WS_SOAP-JM()12:00PM has ended
16:57:06 <mphillip1> rrsagent, make minutes
16:57:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/06/22-soap-jms-minutes.html mphillip1
16:57:07 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.919.663.aaaa, alewis, +1.708.246.aabb, +1.209.474.aacc, +1.781.280.aadd, eric, +44.196.287.aaee, Mark
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