IRC log of soap-jms on 2010-06-22

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:56:17 [RRSAgent]
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logging to
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RRSAgent, make logs public
15:56:19 [Zakim]
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Zakim, this will be SJMS
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ok, trackbot; I see WS_SOAP-JM()12:00PM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
15:56:22 [trackbot]
Meeting: SOAP-JMS Binding Working Group Teleconference
15:56:22 [trackbot]
Date: 22 June 2010
15:56:45 [Zakim]
WS_SOAP-JM()12:00PM has now started
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+ +1.919.663.aaaa
15:58:23 [mphillip]
mphillip has changed the topic to: (mphillip)
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+ +1.708.246.aabb
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16:02:33 [eric]
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16:03:01 [eric]
Zakim, aacc is eric
16:03:01 [Zakim]
+eric; got it
16:04:09 [eric]
Mark - you having difficulty dialing in?
16:04:26 [mphillip]
yes, Zakim not recognising the tones
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trying the US number
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+ +44.196.287.aaee
16:05:01 [mphillip]
better :-)
16:05:17 [mphillip]
Zakim, aaee is Mark
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+Mark; got it
16:05:25 [mphillip]
Chair: Eric
16:05:39 [mphillip]
TOPIC: 1) Appointment of the scribe
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Scribe: Mark
16:05:44 [Yves]
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TOPIC: 2) Approval of prior meeting minutes
16:06:18 [mphillip]
Minutes approved
16:06:26 [mphillip]
Topic: 3) Review the agenda
16:07:18 [mphillip]
Mark: Would like to add new issue regarding landing page and broken like
16:07:32 [mphillip]
action Eric to fix borken linkon landing page
16:07:32 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-181 - Fix borken linkon landing page [on Eric Johnson - due 2010-06-29].
16:07:51 [mphillip]
Mark: See
16:08:05 [mphillip]
TOPIC: 4) Review action items
16:08:15 [mphillip]
Eric: No progress on actions
16:08:22 [mphillip]
Peter: No progress on actions
16:08:34 [mphillip]
TOPIC: 5) URI specification:
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No progress
16:08:45 [mphillip]
TOPIC: 6) Raised spec issues:
16:08:48 [eric]
16:09:35 [mphillip]
Amy: Gives overview of issue
16:11:35 [eric]
Text of proposal:
16:11:38 [mphillip]
16:12:21 [eric]
The original rule : 
16:12:21 [eric]
    S MUST copy the JMSMessageID from the original
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    request to the JMSCorrelationID of the response
16:12:21 [eric]
Becomes :
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    if there is no JMSCorrelationId set in the request, 
16:12:22 [eric]
        S MUST copy the JMSMessageID from the original 
16:12:24 [eric]
        request to the JMSCorrelationID of the response.
16:12:26 [eric]
16:12:28 [eric]
        S MUST copy the JMSCorrelationID from original 
16:12:30 [eric]
        request to the JMSCorrelationID of the response.
16:12:35 [mphillip]
Mark: Very much likes the new 2038 protocol proposed by David in - suggest we adopt it
16:13:51 [mphillip]
Derek: Makes perfect sense, but concerned that this would be a misuse of correlation ID - could we set another message property rather than re-using correlation Id?
16:16:02 [mphillip]
Amy: The proposal effectively makes correlation Id into a conversation Id - it is a really clever trick, and it is in the mainstream of JMS to set the Correlation Id first - uses existing technology rather than inventing new headers
16:17:44 [mphillip]
Mark: It is a pretty standard technique.. it is used by MQ as a common correlation pattern (COPY CORRELID). JMS makes it more useful because the MsgId can't be set by the sender
16:18:15 [mphillip]
Amy: Worried that a new header starts to open the floodgates towards re-implementing WS-Addressing
16:19:06 [mphillip]
Peter: Agree - we should not invent new properties, but curious about how existing JMS bridges support correlId. Generally think it is a good idea
16:20:19 [mphillip]
DereK: Definitely agree this issue raises a legitimate concern
16:20:57 [mphillip]
Derek: and the use case raised by David is a good one
16:21:17 [mphillip]
All: No objections to opening this as an issue
16:22:47 [mphillip]
Eric: If we specify the use of CorrellationId then it might prohibit using correlation Id for som advanced patterns, but that's OK because WS-Addressing can be used in those cases
16:23:49 [mphillip]
Eric: The other option is some other message property for correlation. The disadvantage is that every message has the overhad of another property
16:25:24 [mphillip]
Mark: *Could* be done today with a custom property which would appear in the RequestURI rather than inventing a new property (but I still like David's proposal better)
16:26:01 [mphillip]
Eric: Could be done with temporary reply Qs
16:26:14 [mphillip]
Peter: and this proposal doesn't preclude temporary Qs
16:27:36 [mphillip]
Eric: So is David's proposal flexible enough or do we need more flexibility
16:27:45 [mphillip]
Amy: Votes for proposal
16:27:48 [mphillip]
Mark: +1
16:29:22 [mphillip]
Derek: +1 - does not cater for all fringe use-cases but it's a good solution
16:29:57 [mphillip]
Peter: +1 Curious to see how JMS bridges would handle it, but this is good
16:31:53 [mphillip]
Eric: in favour too - looked back through archives and didn't find anything to conflict with this
16:34:00 [mphillip]
Mark: May be better to add to the spec as a separate assertion
16:35:38 [mphillip]
Mark: and add new tests
16:36:45 [mphillip]
Amy: Will this send us back to last cal?
16:36:54 [mphillip]
Eric: No, don't believe so
16:38:10 [mphillip]
Amy: If this is important enough to go in, then it must be normative and documented as one of the significant differences between CR and PR
16:39:26 [Yves]
agree that it should be documented
16:43:10 [mphillip]
Peter: Does this get manifested in any new properties that might be included in WSDL etc.?
16:43:56 [mphillip]
Derek: No this is behaviour determined solely by the message sender - i.e. whether to set the correlation id or not
16:46:37 [mphillip]
Eric: so we are generally agreed on the proposal. Need to check how much of the binding spec. needs to change.
16:47:08 [mphillip]
Action Mark to check how much of the binding spec. needs to change and make a proposal
16:47:08 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-182 - Check how much of the binding spec. needs to change and make a proposal [on Mark Phillips - due 2010-06-29].
16:47:51 [mphillip]
Eric: We will vote on the proposal next week
16:48:07 [mphillip]
Eric: Please discuss concerns or newsuggestion on the list
16:48:44 [mphillip]
TOPIC: 7) Accepting proposals to close open issues
16:48:44 [mphillip]
16:48:53 [mphillip]
TOPIC: 8) Accepting applied resolutions:
16:48:57 [mphillip]
16:49:31 [mphillip]
Action: Eric to apply resolution to issue 38
16:49:31 [mphillip]
Action Eric to apply resolution to issue 38
16:49:32 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-183 - Apply resolution to issue 38 [on Eric Johnson - due 2010-06-29].
16:49:32 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-184 - Apply resolution to issue 38 [on Eric Johnson - due 2010-06-29].
16:50:08 [mphillip]
TOPIC: 9) Moving to PR
16:52:56 [mphillip1]
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16:53:02 [mphillip1]
Eric: So any one of us could submit a patch with the latest changes and if a vendor's implementation passes the CXF tests, then we reach the criteria for PR
16:53:47 [mphillip1]
Peter: The test validation is based on JAX-WS clients with validation performed by CXF interceptors
16:54:41 [mphillip1]
Peter: uses ACtiveMQ but other JMS providers could be plugged in
16:55:00 [mphillip1]
16:55:58 [mphillip1]
Eric: Should we skip meeting following July 4th?
16:56:18 [mphillip1]
All: No vacation plans
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rrsagent, make minutes
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I have made the request to generate mphillip1
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Attendees were +1.919.663.aaaa, alewis, +1.708.246.aabb, +1.209.474.aacc, +1.781.280.aadd, eric, +44.196.287.aaee, Mark
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