IRC log of ws-ra on 2010-06-15

Timestamps are in UTC.

19:28:29 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #ws-ra
19:28:29 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/06/15-ws-ra-irc
19:28:31 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
19:28:31 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #ws-ra
19:28:33 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be WSRA
19:28:33 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot, I see WS_WSRA()3:30PM already started
19:28:34 [trackbot]
Meeting: Web Services Resource Access Working Group Teleconference
19:28:34 [trackbot]
Date: 15 June 2010
19:28:57 [Zakim]
+Bob_Freund
19:29:09 [dug]
bonjour
19:29:21 [Vikas]
Vikas has joined #ws-ra
19:29:22 [Bob]
I am using full dns
19:29:35 [dug]
ah, no w3c today
19:30:06 [Zakim]
+ +1.571.262.aaaa
19:30:12 [gpilz]
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19:30:16 [dug]
571 is loud :-)
19:30:36 [wuchou]
wuchou has joined #ws-ra
19:30:44 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
19:31:07 [Zakim]
+ +1.831.713.aabb
19:31:08 [Ashok]
Ashok has joined #ws-ra
19:31:17 [Zakim]
+Wu_Chou
19:31:19 [Vikas]
Zakim, aaaa is Vikas
19:31:19 [Zakim]
+Vikas; got it
19:31:42 [gpilz]
did they really need to stick the "context" into "customized, Compunetics, conferencing system" ?
19:31:50 [Ram]
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19:32:02 [Zakim]
+Tom_Rutt
19:32:07 [dug]
No sympathy from me: http://bronx.ny1.com/content/top_stories/120391/claim--bronx-students-forced-to-clean-school-toilets
19:32:10 [Katy]
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19:32:20 [dug]
its a punishment! geez.
19:32:45 [Bob]
agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-resource-access/2010Jun/0007.html
19:33:21 [Zakim]
+Ashok_Malhotra
19:33:27 [Zakim]
+ +1.800.456.aacc
19:33:49 [MartinC]
MartinC has joined #ws-ra
19:33:58 [Bob]
present+ Rick Landau
19:34:03 [dug]
zakim, aacc is Rick
19:34:03 [Zakim]
+Rick; got it
19:34:42 [Zakim]
+ +3531803aadd
19:35:08 [dug]
zakim, aadd is Martin
19:35:08 [Zakim]
+Martin; got it
19:36:33 [Bob]
scribe: Ashok
19:36:52 [Bob]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-resource-access/2010Jun/0007.html
19:37:32 [Ashok]
scribenick: Ashok
19:37:56 [Ashok]
Topic: Agenda\
19:38:04 [Ashok]
Agenda accepted
19:38:21 [Ashok]
Topic: Opening
19:38:34 [Zakim]
+ +44.196.281.aaee
19:38:40 [dug]
zakim, aaee is Katy
19:38:40 [Zakim]
+Katy; got it
19:38:51 [Ashok]
Toopic: Minutes from June 8
19:39:03 [Ashok]
Approval of minutes of 2010-06-08
19:39:11 [Ashok]
Approved w/o objection
19:39:29 [Ashok]
Topic: Advance Soap Assertions to Last Call? http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/WD-ws-soap-assertions-20100608/
19:39:42 [Ashok]
Bob: Any objections?
19:40:06 [Ashok]
No objections. Document will be published as Last Call document
19:40:18 [Ashok]
Bob: How long shd last call be?
19:40:25 [Ashok]
... 3 orb 4 weeks
19:40:33 [Ashok]
s/orb/or/
19:40:46 [Ashok]
No objections to 3 week Last Call.
19:41:06 [Bob]
http://www.w3.org/standards/techs/sparql#w3c_all
19:41:17 [Ashok]
Topic: Need short abstracts for spec directory examples at http://www.w3.org/standards/techs/sparql#w3c_all
19:41:55 [Ashok]
Bob: Who will volunteer to write abstracts?
19:42:07 [Ashok]
Doug: I'll take a stab at it
19:42:34 [Zakim]
+ +39.331.574.aaff
19:43:18 [asoldano]
Zakim, aaff is asoldano
19:43:18 [Zakim]
+asoldano; got it
19:43:24 [dug]
action: Doug to write up some abstracts
19:43:24 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-166 - Write up some abstracts [on Doug Davis - due 2010-06-22].
19:44:16 [Ashok]
Topic: Heartbeat
19:44:20 [Ashok]
1-Issue-9610 Eventing: Support WS-Management's heartbeat events http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=9610 -wsman
19:44:23 [Tom_Rutt]
q+
19:44:30 [wuchou]
q+
19:44:35 [Tom_Rutt]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-resource-access/2010Jun/0004.html
19:44:37 [Bob]
ack tom
19:45:40 [Bob]
proposal at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-resource-access/2010Jun/0004.html
19:46:03 [gpilz]
q+
19:46:50 [Ashok]
TomRutt: Simplify d ... always send msg at regular intervals
19:47:29 [gpilz]
q+
19:47:34 [Ashok]
WuChou: Using count may not good idea
19:47:59 [gpilz]
q-
19:48:13 [MartinC]
q+
19:48:24 [Bob]
ack wu
19:48:26 [gpilz]
q+
19:48:29 [dug]
q+
19:48:45 [Zakim]
-Martin
19:49:05 [Zakim]
+Martin_Chapman
19:49:09 [Ashok]
TomRutt: Agrees with Wu
19:49:38 [Ashok]
Rick: We would like to withdraw proposal
19:50:00 [Ashok]
... WS-Man would like to use it's existing mechanism
19:50:11 [MartinC]
q-
19:50:11 [gpilz]
q-
19:50:28 [Ashok]
... also \remove GetStatus option
19:50:43 [Ashok]
s/\remove/remove/
19:51:18 [Bob]
ack dug
19:51:28 [Ashok]
Doug: Proposal is worthy of consideration for a primer ... later
19:51:39 [asoldano]
+1
19:51:51 [gpilz]
zakim, where is the echo coming from?
19:51:51 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, gpilz.
19:52:02 [dug]
zakim, who is noisy?
19:52:14 [gpilz]
q+
19:52:15 [Zakim]
dug, listening for 12 seconds I heard sound from the following: Tom_Rutt (87%), Ashok_Malhotra (8%), Martin_Chapman (65%)
19:52:21 [dug]
zakim, mute martin
19:52:21 [Zakim]
Martin_Chapman should now be muted
19:52:29 [dug]
q+
19:52:50 [dug]
LOL poor martin
19:52:52 [Ashok]
TomRutt: We dod not need to remove what we have or not add a more general feature
19:53:36 [Ashok]
s/dod/do/
19:53:55 [Bob]
ack gp
19:54:10 [dug]
its a miracle!
19:54:17 [MartinC]
its also true
19:54:45 [Ashok]
Gil: Keep alive is worse than heartbeat
19:55:10 [Ashok]
... increases shared state by a lot
19:56:19 [dug]
q-
19:56:57 [Ashok]
Rick: The keep-alive uses a maximum interval. If you implement as regular heartbeat the max interval never exceeded
19:57:28 [Ashok]
... can be implemented by alarm clock
19:57:59 [Ashok]
... no need to keep distributed state
19:58:15 [dug]
+1 to cwna and remove
19:58:26 [Ashok]
Bob: Proposal to CNA and remove ... Option f.
19:58:48 [dug]
q+
19:58:59 [Ashok]
... remove verify
19:59:25 [Ashok]
TomRutt: Lets not take away what we have ... meets a general need
19:59:59 [Ashok]
Bob: Do you want option e rather than f?
20:00:18 [Bob]
ack dug
20:00:52 [Ashok]
Doug: Disagrees. No need for what we added. That was for WS-Man. Will cause confusion
20:00:54 [Bob]
ok, lets pick one
20:00:57 [Bob]
e or f
20:01:08 [Bob]
zakim, pick one
20:01:08 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'pick one', Bob
20:01:16 [Ashok]
Doug: Maybe we can add later
20:02:10 [MartinC]
who is going to implement getstatus?
20:02:18 [Ashok]
Allesio: f
20:02:37 [Ashok]
IBM: f
20:02:49 [Ashok]
Microsoft: f
20:02:59 [Ashok]
Fujistu: e
20:03:07 [Ashok]
SoftwareAG: f
20:03:10 [dug]
not just good work but great work :-)
20:03:13 [Ashok]
Avaya: abstain
20:03:21 [Ashok]
Oracle: f
20:03:31 [Tom_Rutt]
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20:03:43 [Ashok]
Bob: We pick f
20:04:05 [dug]
ack
20:04:13 [Bob]
rr
20:04:15 [Ashok]
RESOLUTION: Issue is resolved by removing the verify feature and reverting to oroginal state
20:04:46 [Ashok]
s/Issue/Issue 9610/
20:05:57 [Ashok]
Topic: Issue 9609
20:06:04 [Bob]
proposal at http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/attachment.cgi?id=887
20:06:39 [Ashok]
2-Issue-9609 Enum: Support WS-Management's optimization of Enumerations with small result sets http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=9609 -wsman proposal at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-resource-access/2010Jun/0006.html and in the bug list
20:07:10 [Ashok]
TomRutt: Any changes to response to existing spec?
20:07:18 [Ashok]
Rick: Yes
20:07:24 [Ashok]
s/to/in/
20:08:38 [dug]
q+
20:08:49 [Bob]
ack dug
20:09:09 [Ashok]
Doug: Looks like a large premature optimization
20:09:25 [Ashok]
... prefer to make pull an explicit enumerate
20:09:45 [Ashok]
Bob: This is what we agreed to
20:10:02 [Tom_Rutt]
q+
20:10:28 [Bob]
ack tom
20:10:45 [gpilz]
q+
20:10:52 [Ashok]
TomRutt: Then why do we need enumerate
20:11:00 [gpilz]
q-
20:11:07 [gpilz]
q+
20:11:12 [Ashok]
Doug: You would have a choice on the pull
20:11:26 [Bob]
ack gp
20:11:40 [dug]
q+
20:12:35 [dug]
q-
20:12:36 [Ashok]
Gil: Can we change to pull-enumerate?
20:12:47 [Tom_Rutt]
q
20:13:08 [Ashok]
Bob: Let's leave issue of the name aside to the time being
20:13:39 [dug]
I'd be willing to writeup the proposal
20:13:43 [Ashok]
... would this meet your needs ... first pull alsways enumerate
20:15:14 [Ashok]
Bob: Can you write the proposal?
20:15:18 [Ashok]
Doug: Yes
20:15:41 [Ashok]
s/can/Doug, Can/
20:16:21 [Ashok]
Topic: 3-Issue-9781 WS-Eventing: mandates only subscribe/unsubscribe http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=9781 -Li
20:16:33 [Ashok]
Li: Explains issue
20:18:22 [dug]
q+
20:18:43 [dug]
LOL
20:19:43 [Bob]
ack dug
20:19:56 [Ashok]
Wu: make only subscribe/unsubscribe as manadtory all else optional
20:20:06 [wuchou]
q+
20:20:12 [Ashok]
Doug: Should not get rid of GetStatus
20:20:21 [Bob]
ack wu
20:20:45 [dug]
q+
20:21:41 [gpilz]
q+
20:21:47 [Bob]
ack dug
20:22:06 [Ashok]
Doug: Other mechanisms are not described in the spec
20:22:16 [Ashok]
... defends GetStatus
20:22:22 [Tom_Rutt]
q+
20:22:43 [Bob]
ack gp
20:22:47 [Ashok]
... cost is negligible
20:23:34 [Ashok]
Gil: Impl cost of GetStatus is low
20:23:47 [Ashok]
... optional features in the spec are bad
20:24:07 [Bob]
ack tom
20:24:08 [Ashok]
... Support GetStatus
20:24:15 [Ashok]
TomRutt: +1
20:24:39 [Ashok]
... GetStatus is fundamental
20:25:14 [Ashok]
Bob: So we agree we can drop Renew
20:25:52 [Ashok]
Doug: I don't think Renew is that critical but easy to implement
20:26:30 [Tom_Rutt]
+1 to dug on keeping renew
20:26:41 [Ashok]
Bob: You want to keep the whole set
20:26:58 [Ashok]
Wu: Originally Renew and GetStatus were optional
20:27:30 [Ashok]
Bob: Any objection toclosing with no action
20:27:51 [Ashok]
Wu: We would like only 2 operations subscribe/unsubscribe
20:28:13 [Tom_Rutt]
q+
20:30:18 [Bob]
ack tom
20:30:23 [Ashok]
TomRutt: Optionality is evil
20:30:40 [gpilz]
+1 to Tom
20:30:43 [dug]
+1 to tom
20:30:57 [asoldano]
+1
20:30:58 [Ashok]
... cost to implement is very low
20:31:23 [Ashok]
Bob: CNA?
20:31:46 [Ashok]
No objections. Issue closed with no action
20:31:47 [dug]
status of WSDL pointers?
20:32:24 [Ashok]
RESOLUTION: Issue 9781 closed with no action
20:32:49 [Ashok]
Topic: -Issue-8284 All: references to WSDL 1.1 should be to BP-corrected version http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8284 -Pilz (BP 1.2 and 2.0 status)
20:33:01 [Ashok]
Ram: There will a proposal soon.
20:33:04 [Zakim]
- +1.831.713.aabb
20:33:05 [Zakim]
-Vikas
20:33:06 [asoldano]
bye
20:33:07 [Zakim]
-Wu_Chou
20:33:09 [Zakim]
-Rick
20:33:09 [Zakim]
-Martin_Chapman
20:33:10 [Zakim]
-asoldano
20:33:12 [Zakim]
-Bob_Freund
20:33:14 [MartinC]
MartinC has left #ws-ra
20:33:14 [Zakim]
-Doug_Davis
20:33:15 [Zakim]
-Tom_Rutt
20:33:16 [Zakim]
-[Microsoft]
20:33:24 [Bob]
rrsagent, generate minutes
20:33:24 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/06/15-ws-ra-minutes.html Bob
20:33:35 [Ashok]
rrsagent, make logs public
20:38:28 [Zakim]
-Katy
20:39:36 [Bob]
Bob has left #ws-ra
20:52:53 [Zakim]
-Ashok_Malhotra
20:52:55 [Zakim]
WS_WSRA()3:30PM has ended
20:52:57 [Zakim]
Attendees were Doug_Davis, Bob_Freund, +1.571.262.aaaa, [Microsoft], +1.831.713.aabb, Wu_Chou, Vikas, Tom_Rutt, Ashok_Malhotra, +1.800.456.aacc, Rick, +3531803aadd, Martin,
20:53:00 [Zakim]
... +44.196.281.aaee, Katy, +39.331.574.aaff, asoldano, Martin_Chapman
21:00:24 [gpilz]
gpilz has left #ws-ra