18:58:33 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria
18:58:33 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/06/15-aria-irc
18:58:39 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make log world
18:58:52 <MichaelC> meeting: ARIA mapping - HTML A11Y TF
18:58:56 <MichaelC> chair: Steve_Faulkner
18:59:22 <MichaelC> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jun/0151.html
19:00:26 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(Aria)3:00PM has now started
19:00:33 <Zakim> +Michael_Cooper
19:02:11 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
19:02:38 <Stevef> zakim, IPcaller is Stevef
19:02:38 <Zakim> +Stevef; got it
19:03:47 <Zakim> +Rich
19:04:35 <janina> janina has joined #aria
19:04:44 <janina> zakim, call janina
19:04:44 <Zakim> ok, janina; the call is being made
19:04:45 <Zakim> +Janina
19:08:13 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
19:08:46 <MichaelC> zakim, Microsoft is Cynthia_Shelly
19:08:46 <Zakim> +Cynthia_Shelly; got it
19:10:27 <cyns> cyns has joined #aria
19:12:02 <cyns> http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/misc/HTML5/aria-html5-proposal.html
19:13:37 <richardschwerdtfe> richardschwerdtfe has joined #aria
19:13:51 <Stevef> http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/misc/HTML5/aria-html5-proposal.html
19:14:38 <cyns> how do I make myself scribe?
19:15:16 <cyns> SF: schould we use ARIA or WAI-ARIA in the doc?
19:15:30 <MichaelC> scribe: cyns
19:16:02 <cyns> JS: I think it's WAI-ARIA
19:16:43 <cyns> SF: we have 2 tables.  the first one used to be called strong native semantics.  I changed it to elements with base sematnics that cannot be overridden
19:17:07 <cyns> this first table is pretty much what's in the spec.  The second table is elements with semantics than can be overriden
19:17:35 <cyns> this table is the things we've talked about before
19:18:05 <cyns> cyns has joined #aria
19:18:26 <cyns> RS: did we call the button role?
19:18:40 <Stevef> i am here
19:18:47 <Stevef> i can hear
19:19:01 <Stevef> i will call back in
19:19:10 <janina> zakim, who is on the phone?
19:19:10 <Zakim> On the phone I see Michael_Cooper, Stevef, Rich, Janina, Cynthia_Shelly
19:19:10 <cyns> ok. thanks.
19:19:13 <Zakim> -Stevef
19:19:48 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
19:20:12 <cyns> RS:  si this waht we agreed to for details?
19:20:15 <Stevef> zakim, IPcaller is Stevef
19:20:15 <Zakim> +Stevef; got it
19:20:24 <cyns> CS:  I thought the summary child was the button
19:20:37 <cyns> RS: implied semantics for details is that its labeled by summary
19:20:59 <cyns> RS:  we also found some bugs with the spec, that we need to address such as bug 92
19:21:15 <cyns> SF: There are places where we still need to make decisions.
19:21:28 <cyns> SF: we also need to address places where we don't agree with the restrictions.
19:21:38 <cyns> CS: should we just start at the top?
19:21:56 <cyns> RS: where we allow people to override, does this mean or, that is you cna have either one
19:22:17 <cyns> RS: look at details.  it's a reveal button. it reveals an area. 
19:22:38 <cyns> RS: it's only a combobox if someone decides to override it and make selectable entries inside it.
19:22:51 <cyns> RS: we're saying what it can be overridden by.
19:23:04 <cyns> SF: restrictions are what it can be overriden with.
19:23:06 <cyns> RS: ok
19:23:21 <cyns> RS: do we want to say that it controls the section that it's expanding.
19:23:30 <cyns> SF:  it could, but that's not what this table is about
19:23:36 <cyns> RS: i meant the implied semantics
19:23:43 <cyns> SF: we can put that in as well.
19:23:51 <cyns> CS: do we want to?
19:23:59 <cyns> SF: if they're helpfu we can add them in
19:24:25 <cyns> SF: the main thing about the second table is that it has a lot fo things that used to be in the first table because there were more restrictions.
19:24:46 <cyns> SF: what i need you to do is to go through and say if you agree of disagree, and bring it up and why.
19:26:54 <janina> scribe: janina
19:27:34 <janina> rich: input type should say what indeterminate is
19:27:46 <janina> steve: yes, but separate from what we're doing here
19:27:54 <cyns> cyns has joined #aria
19:28:06 <cyns> i'm back
19:28:47 <janina> steve: an aria check on a standard html checkbox should be quite rare
19:28:53 <cyns> it's probably going to be pretty rare where a standard html text box is going to have an aria-checked on it?
19:28:58 <janina> cyns: seems like an easy beginner's mistake, though
19:29:07 <cyns> CS:  inexperienced authors may make that mistake. 
19:30:07 <janina> cyns: perhaps having both should be a warning
19:30:10 <janina> steve: yes
19:31:01 <janina> steve: please read guidance for conformance checkers ...
19:31:14 <janina> sf: first, metadata content ...
19:31:50 <janina> cs: makes sense
19:32:08 <janina> rs: yes
19:32:58 <janina> sf: second table, anything form associated or interactive
19:33:50 <janina> sf: so, error if overwritten
19:34:14 <janina> cs: agree, but might want to say 'specified in the table above' or similar
19:35:27 <janina> sf: a warning if something other than what's allowed goes for the first table, which is more restrictive
19:37:08 <janina> cs: might be helpful to make our purpose more explicit
19:39:45 <janina> rich: are we saying validators must support a b and c -- is this what html-wg wants?
19:40:31 <Zakim> -Stevef
19:41:05 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
19:42:17 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
19:42:41 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
19:43:04 <Stevef> i can hear you
19:43:17 <Stevef> i will ring in on another phone
19:43:27 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
19:44:10 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
19:47:16 <janina> sf: spec has referred to error/warning conditions, so i've based on our dicusssions
19:51:11 <janina> sf: tried to provide useful author guidance as well
19:52:54 <janina> cs: pretty subtle, but i like it
19:53:57 <janina> cs: think you're on the right track
19:54:04 <janina> rs: due when?
19:54:11 <janina> js: next week--the 24th
19:54:41 <janina> sf: obviously i agree with all this, i put it there
19:54:55 <janina> sf: can you all send a list of what you disagree? and we can focus on that?
19:54:59 <janina> cs: yes
19:55:30 <janina> rs: not today--will do my best
19:56:59 <janina> sf: think we're closer than last week?
19:57:00 <janina> rs: yes
19:57:25 <janina> rs: we need a list of issues related to this to submit--e.g. bug 9817
19:57:31 <richardschwerdtfe> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=9817
20:00:27 <Zakim> -Rich
20:00:28 <Zakim> -Cynthia_Shelly
20:00:36 <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
20:00:38 <Zakim> -Janina
20:00:39 <janina> zakim, bye
20:00:39 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were Michael_Cooper, Stevef, Rich, Janina, Cynthia_Shelly, [IPcaller]
20:00:39 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aria
20:00:48 <janina> rrsagent, make minutes
20:00:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/06/15-aria-minutes.html janina
20:01:03 <janina> rrsagent, make log public
20:01:09 <janina> rrsagent, make minutes
20:01:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/06/15-aria-minutes.html janina