IRC log of ua on 2010-06-10

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:59:33 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #ua
16:59:33 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/06/10-ua-irc
16:59:35 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
16:59:35 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #ua
16:59:37 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG
16:59:37 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 1 minute
16:59:38 [trackbot]
Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
16:59:38 [trackbot]
Date: 10 June 2010
17:00:11 [kford]
Agenda+ Survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100521/
17:00:12 [kford]
Agenda+ Tracking UAAG implementations
17:00:14 [kford]
Agenda+ Discuss implications of HTML 5 accessibility task force survey on media http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/20080526_media-requirements/results
17:00:15 [kford]
Agenda+ Promoting next working draft
17:01:22 [kford]
zakim, code?
17:01:22 [Zakim]
the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), kford
17:01:41 [jeanne]
jeanne has joined #ua
17:01:46 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started
17:01:53 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
17:02:02 [kford]
zakim, microsoft is kford
17:02:02 [Zakim]
+kford; got it
17:02:06 [sharper]
sharper has joined #ua
17:02:13 [Zakim]
+Jeanne
17:02:20 [kford]
Chair: Jim_Allan_Kelly_Ford
17:02:48 [sharper]
zakim, code?
17:02:48 [Zakim]
the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), sharper
17:03:15 [Zakim]
+Greg
17:03:47 [Zakim]
+??P5
17:03:49 [sharper]
zakim, ??P5 is sharper
17:03:49 [Zakim]
+sharper; got it
17:04:41 [KimPatch]
KimPatch has joined #ua
17:05:01 [Zakim]
+ +1.617.325.aaaa
17:05:11 [jeanne]
zakim, who is here?
17:05:11 [Zakim]
On the phone I see kford, Jeanne, Greg, sharper, +1.617.325.aaaa
17:05:12 [Zakim]
On IRC I see KimPatch, sharper, jeanne, Zakim, RRSAgent, Greg, kford, AllanJ, trackbot
17:05:50 [jeanne]
zakim, 1.617 is Kim
17:05:50 [Zakim]
sorry, jeanne, I do not recognize a party named '1.617'
17:06:12 [jeanne]
zakim, +1.617 is really KimPatch
17:06:12 [Zakim]
+KimPatch; got it
17:10:25 [jeanne]
scribe: jeanne
17:10:59 [jeanne]
zakim, take up item 2
17:10:59 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Tracking UAAG implementations" taken up [from kford]
17:13:08 [jeanne]
KF: We have a short term and long term need to track real world implementations of UAAG, the short term is to see what our gaps are in our success criteria, and long term to get our guidelines approved. Does everyone have Excel available if we track it in that.
17:13:52 [jeanne]
GL: Does Excel have the ability to share the document and let everyone update it?
17:14:22 [jeanne]
[suggestions of other formats - Google docs]
17:16:25 [jeanne]
KF: We will list the success criteria and major browsers. Can everyone look at their favorite browsers and see where they meet our success criteria.
17:17:41 [jeanne]
... I will send out a spreadsheet and ask everyone to help start filling it in.
17:19:51 [jeanne]
GL: Excel isn't the best format, because it doesn't allow things like linking to screenshots, etc.
17:19:53 [kford]
zakim, take up item 5
17:19:53 [Zakim]
I only see 4 items on the agenda
17:19:57 [jeanne]
KF: This is just a start.
17:19:59 [kford]
zakim, take up item 4
17:19:59 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Promoting next working draft" taken up [from kford]
17:21:23 [jeanne]
JS: We will need to add a column for how to access the feature, as we will need that to write test procedures.
17:21:36 [kford]
scribe: kford
17:21:53 [kford]
JS: The way I figure is our next draft is last working draft before we try to have a last call.
17:22:15 [kford]
W3C process tends to see a lot of people waiting for last call to comment.
17:22:25 [kford]
This can result in a 2nd last call.
17:22:43 [kford]
JS: Key to avoide is to try and get a lot of reviews on the draft before last call.
17:23:01 [kford]
JS: Personal contact is the key.
17:23:31 [kford]
JS: We need people from across the spectrum. Viudeo industry, browser industry, disablity community, AT vendors.
17:23:51 [kford]
JS: I'd like to see us try to pull out the stops to personally get them to review.
17:24:03 [kford]
JS: If possible CC me on this.
17:24:26 [kford]
JS: Do not send to the list if you want personal contact addresses to be private. List is public.
17:24:37 [kford]
JS: I'd like to try and get 200 people to look at this.
17:24:49 [kford]
JS: In the hopes that we'd end up with 50.
17:24:57 [kford]
JS: Can people get behind this.
17:25:05 [kford]
KP: Maybe not that many but yes.
17:26:18 [kford]
zakim, close item 4
17:26:18 [Zakim]
agendum 4, Promoting next working draft, closed
17:26:19 [Zakim]
I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:26:20 [Zakim]
1. Survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100521/ [from kford]
17:27:26 [kford]
GL: How many open issues and actions do we have that could impact the document.
17:27:36 [kford]
GL: Are we converging toward 0?
17:32:24 [jeanne]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/
17:33:59 [jeanne]
zakim, close this item
17:33:59 [Zakim]
I do not know what agendum had been taken up, jeanne
17:34:05 [jeanne]
zakim, take up item 3
17:34:05 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Discuss implications of HTML 5 accessibility task force survey on media http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/20080526_media-requirements/results" taken up [from kford]
17:35:15 [jeanne]
KF: Jim asked for this survey to be added to the agenda. The HTML5/A11y Task Force is looking for comments on this survey.
17:37:12 [kford]
JS: The doc originated from the accessibility task force wanting to have all the reqs for video and audio in one doc.
17:37:34 [kford]
JS: the goal was to help HTML5 understand everything in one place.
17:38:09 [kford]
JS: The document became to extensive that folks are now looking to publish this for more groups.
17:38:42 [kford]
JS: It broadened in scope and is different form what W3C might do but is powerful in detailing media requirements acorss multiple platforms.
17:42:28 [kford]
group looking through doc at high level.
17:43:53 [jeanne]
KP: The structural navigation does not seem to be robust. I have seen players that allow advance by sentence.
17:44:57 [jeanne]
KF: Does this media document show up gaps in our document? Or do we see anything that is widely divergent from our document, send a message to the list.
17:45:09 [jeanne]
zakim, close this item
17:45:09 [Zakim]
agendum 3 closed
17:45:10 [Zakim]
I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:45:11 [Zakim]
1. Survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100521/ [from kford]
17:45:34 [jeanne]
zakim, take up item 1
17:45:34 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100521/" taken up [from kford]
17:46:43 [jeanne]
topic: 3.10.11
17:48:21 [jeanne]
http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100521/results
17:51:06 [jeanne]
[discussion of Greg's comments]
17:51:46 [jeanne]
KF: If we redefined viewport to exclude dialog boxes, could you accept it?
17:53:36 [jeanne]
GL: I'm not sure. If in my browser, I have (for example) large menus, thick borders, and high contrast. So if I spawn a new window, it has those features. But if it spawns a dialog box, does it makes sense to have all those features in the dialog box? The dialog box could end up with the full browser status bar, or menu bar.
17:54:28 [jeanne]
KF: this is for opening new windows, that if you open up a new window, you get the features we already set.
17:54:51 [jeanne]
GL: I'm not sure it wouldn't include CSS list boxes or multiline edit controls.
17:57:02 [jeanne]
JS: Could we put in a note that clarifies it?
18:02:41 [jeanne]
SH: If it opens a non-specialized window, then it has to follow the features. But the modal dialog boxes would be exluded, because the author typically requests modal dialog boxes for specific tasks. If the author doesn't, then it has to follow the success criteria.
18:03:48 [jeanne]
... the browser generates these out of it's standard toolkit. The browser knows what it is putting up on the screen. And knows how to match it to the operating system look and feel.
18:05:32 [jeanne]
JS: If the author generates their own dialog box and the browser doesn't know it, then the browser should give it all the options that the user says they need.
18:07:30 [jeanne]
SH: If an author decides to write their own dialog boxes, then they may get a "dodgey" result.
18:08:58 [jeanne]
Note: Dialog boxes or other special purpose viewports that provide limited functionality, does not have to spawn all the user-requested features that do not apply to that special function.
18:10:55 [jeanne]
Note: Dialog boxes or other special purpose viewports that provide limited functionality, do not have to spawn all the user-requested features that do not apply to that special function.
18:11:55 [jeanne]
Action: JS to update 3.10.11 to accept the survey with Jim's edits and to add the following note to the success criteria: Note: Dialog boxes or other special purpose viewports that provide limited functionality, do not have to spawn all the user-requested features that do not apply to that special function.
18:11:55 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-402 - Update 3.10.11 to accept the survey with Jim's edits and to add the following note to the success criteria: Note: Dialog boxes or other special purpose viewports that provide limited functionality, do not have to spawn all the user-requested features that do not apply to that special function. [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-06-17].
18:13:00 [jeanne]
topic: 3.10.12 Indicate Viewport Position
18:13:13 [jeanne]
http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100521/results#xq12
18:14:12 [jeanne]
action: JS to update document 3.10.12 with Marks' edits: 3.10.12 Indicate Viewport Position: Indicate the viewport's position relative to rendered content (e.g., the proportion along an audio or video timeline, the proportion of a Web page before the current position ), and what proportion of the content is currently visible in the viewport along either vertical or horizontal dimension. (Level AAA)
18:14:12 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-403 - Update document 3.10.12 with Marks' edits: 3.10.12 Indicate Viewport Position: Indicate the viewport's position relative to rendered content (e.g., the proportion along an audio or video timeline, the proportion of a Web page before the current position ), and what proportion of the content is currently visible in the viewport along either vertical or horizontal dimension. (Level AAA) [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-06-17].
18:15:33 [jeanne]
Topic: 4.7.x
18:15:43 [jeanne]
Has rewrites pending for next weeks survey.
18:16:10 [jeanne]
Topic: 5.3.6 Appropriate Language
18:17:28 [jeanne]
It is missing the level.
18:17:41 [jeanne]
KF: I think AA.
18:18:12 [jeanne]
GL: I don't know how hard it would be to do. I think in some languages, like right to left languages, it might be very hard to do, but I don't know.
18:19:35 [jeanne]
KF: This is vaguely written "react appropriately".
18:19:57 [jeanne]
GL: If we try not to make it so broad, that we can't figure out what would not be required is a problem.
18:21:14 [jeanne]
GL: We know that it should pass the language to a speech syntheser. Use an appropriate font, if available. Correctly handling left to right, right to left, in terms of read aloud, or caret browsing.
18:21:47 [jeanne]
SH: It seems conflated to me, that it could be language or linguistics.
18:24:34 [jeanne]
If the user agent recognizes a change to the natural language in rendered content, it uses the speech synthesis appropriate to that language, if available.
18:26:19 [jeanne]
SH: this part seems to be about voicing, if it should also be about gender appropriate.
18:26:55 [jeanne]
GL: I don't think there is a way to code speech gender changes.
18:27:55 [jeanne]
... something with voice gender changes, would already have that necessary information coded, so the user agent wouldn't hve to take an special actions, except pass the information from the author.
18:28:56 [jeanne]
GL: My proposal is make this just about speech and font. Use voice and fonts appropriate to the changes in natural language.
18:29:49 [jeanne]
When rendering content use voice characteristics and fonts appropriate to the recognized changes in natural language.
18:31:42 [jeanne]
SH: is this more like 3.5.8?
18:33:01 [jeanne]
KF: I propose we delete the font stuff and move it into 3.8 and make it a AA.
18:33:08 [jeanne]
[agreement]
18:34:03 [Zakim]
-kford
18:34:07 [Zakim]
-sharper
18:34:12 [Zakim]
-Greg
18:34:27 [jeanne]
action: JS to update the document to remove the font reference in 5.3.6 and move it to 3.8.x
18:34:27 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-404 - Update the document to remove the font reference in 5.3.6 and move it to 3.8.x [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-06-17].
18:34:51 [jeanne]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:34:51 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/06/10-ua-minutes.html jeanne
18:35:48 [jeanne]
zakim, bye
18:35:48 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were kford, Jeanne, Greg, sharper, +1.617.325.aaaa, KimPatch
18:35:48 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #ua
18:36:06 [jeanne]
present+ kford, Jeanne, Greg, sharper, KimPatch
18:36:22 [jeanne]
chair: Kelly
18:36:29 [jeanne]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:36:29 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/06/10-ua-minutes.html jeanne
18:38:45 [jeanne]
rrsagent, bye
18:38:45 [RRSAgent]
I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2010/06/10-ua-actions.rdf :
18:38:45 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JS to update 3.10.11 to accept the survey with Jim's edits and to add the following note to the success criteria: Note: Dialog boxes or other special purpose viewports that provide limited functionality, do not have to spawn all the user-requested features that do not apply to that special function. [1]
18:38:45 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/06/10-ua-irc#T18-11-55
18:38:45 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JS to update document 3.10.12 with Marks' edits: 3.10.12 Indicate Viewport Position: Indicate the viewport's position relative to rendered content (e.g., the proportion along an audio or video timeline, the proportion of a Web page before the current position ), and what proportion of the content is currently visible in the viewport along either vertical or horizontal dimension. (Level AAA) [2]
18:38:45 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/06/10-ua-irc#T18-14-12
18:38:45 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JS to update the document to remove the font reference in 5.3.6 and move it to 3.8.x [3]
18:38:45 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/06/10-ua-irc#T18-34-27