13:50:52 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dap
13:50:52 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/06/09-dap-irc
13:50:54 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:50:54 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #dap
13:50:56 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be DAP
13:50:56 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see UW_DAP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 10 minutes
13:50:57 <trackbot> Meeting: Device APIs and Policy Working Group Teleconference
13:50:58 <trackbot> Date: 09 June 2010
13:57:34 <Suresh> Suresh has joined #dap
13:58:08 <Zakim> UW_DAP()10:00AM has now started
13:58:15 <Zakim> + +1.972.373.aaaa
13:58:28 <Suresh> zakim, aaaa is Suresh
13:58:28 <Zakim> +Suresh; got it
13:59:11 <alissa> alissa has joined #dap
13:59:30 <jsalsman> jsalsman has joined #dap
13:59:44 <Zakim> + +1.202.436.aabb
14:00:06 <jmorris> jmorris has joined #dap
14:00:10 <alissa> zakim, +1.202.436.aabb is alissa
14:00:10 <Zakim> +alissa; got it
14:00:22 <Zakim> + +1.650.335.aacc
14:00:22 <alissa> Present+ Alissa_Cooper
14:00:40 <jmorris> Present+ John_Morris
14:00:56 <darobin> Chair: Robin_Berjon
14:01:00 <jsalsman> Present+ James_Salsman
14:01:01 <darobin> Present+ Robin_Berjon
14:01:05 <Zakim> +Dom
14:01:16 <dom> PRESENT+ Dominique_Hazael-Massieux
14:01:22 <Zakim> + +1.301.581.aadd
14:01:22 <dom> zakim, mute me
14:01:24 <Zakim> Dom should now be muted
14:01:27 <Zakim> + +04871719aaee
14:01:27 <jsalsman> +1.650.335... is jsalsman
14:01:31 <Claes> Claes has joined #dap
14:01:33 <drogersuk> drogersuk has joined #dap
14:01:36 <enewland> enewland has joined #dap
14:01:40 <jmorris> zakim, .aadd is jmorris
14:01:40 <Zakim> sorry, jmorris, I do not recognize a party named '.aadd'
14:01:42 <darobin> Regrets: Frederick_Hirsh
14:01:43 <wojtekM> Present+ Wojciech_maslowski
14:01:44 <dom> zakim, aacc is jsalsman
14:01:44 <Zakim> +jsalsman; got it
14:01:44 <enewland> present+ enewland
14:01:49 <Claes> Present+ Claes_Nilsson
14:01:50 <richt> richt has joined #dap
14:01:50 <jmorris> zakim, aadd is jmorris
14:01:50 <Zakim> +jmorris; got it
14:01:56 <dom> Present+ James_Salsman
14:02:02 <Zakim> +darobin
14:02:06 <dom> zakim, who's on the call?
14:02:06 <Zakim> On the phone I see Suresh, alissa, jsalsman, Dom (muted), jmorris, +04871719aaee, darobin
14:02:08 <Zakim> + +1.202.637.aaff
14:02:16 <enewland> zakim, aaff is enewland
14:02:16 <Zakim> +enewland; got it
14:02:23 <richt> Present+ Richard_Tibbett
14:02:51 <wojtekM> zakim, aaee is wojtekM
14:02:51 <Zakim> +wojtekM; got it
14:02:53 <LauraA> LauraA has joined #dap
14:03:01 <LauraA> Present+ LauraA
14:03:08 <Zakim> + +04610801aagg
14:03:31 <Claes> zakim, aagg is Claes
14:03:31 <Zakim> +Claes; got it
14:03:40 <maoteo> maoteo has joined #dap
14:03:41 <Zakim> + +0777541aahh
14:03:42 <Zakim> + +1.425.214.aaii
14:03:49 <Suresh> Present+ Suresh_Chitturi
14:03:52 <bryan_sullivan> bryan_sullivan has joined #dap
14:03:52 <Zakim> +??P1
14:03:58 <LauraA> zakim, aahh is LauraA
14:03:58 <Zakim> +LauraA; got it
14:04:03 <drogersuk> Present+ David_Rogers
14:04:16 <maoteo> Present+ Maria_Oteo
14:04:26 <drogersuk> zakim, ??P1 is David_Rogers
14:04:26 <Zakim> +David_Rogers; got it
14:04:35 <bryan_sullivan> present+ bryan_sullivan
14:04:46 <darobin> Scribe: Laura
14:04:51 <darobin> Scribenick: LauraA 
14:05:03 <darobin> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Jun/0069.html
14:05:19 <dom> zakim, aaii is bryan_sullivan
14:05:19 <Zakim> +bryan_sullivan; got it
14:05:44 <LauraA> topic: announcements
14:05:45 <darobin> -> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/43696/london2010/ registration
14:05:55 <dom> ack 
14:05:57 <dom> ack me
14:06:04 <dom> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/wiki/LondonF2F2010
14:06:04 <LauraA> darobin: reminder to register for the July F2F in London
14:06:06 <Zakim> + +03491337aajj
14:06:17 <LauraA> dom: added list of hotels into the wiki page
14:06:37 <darobin> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Jun/0031.html last week's minutes
14:06:38 <LauraA> topic: minutes' approval
14:06:41 <maoteo> Zakim, aajj is maoteo
14:06:41 <Zakim> +maoteo; got it
14:06:52 <LauraA> darobin: minutes approved
14:07:36 <LauraA> topic: policy
14:08:04 <LauraA> darobin: proposal to public Policy Framework doc
14:08:15 <LauraA> ... request publication on the 24th
14:08:32 <danielcoloma> danielcoloma has joined #dap
14:08:38 <richt> richt has joined #dap
14:08:51 <danielcoloma> Present+ Daniel_Coloma
14:09:01 <LauraA> ... any opinions about 1st public working draft of policy framework?
14:09:06 <LauraA> q+
14:09:24 <darobin> LauraA: sent an email with last changes right before call
14:09:29 <darobin> ... suggest people look at it
14:09:36 <dom> -> http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/policy/Framework.html Editors draft of Policy Framework document
14:09:43 <darobin> .... it will change a bit, but minor changes -- overall well defined
14:09:47 <richt> richt has joined #dap
14:09:48 <darobin> ... I think it's okay
14:10:20 <darobin> RESOLUTION: CfC for Framework OK
14:10:20 <LauraA> darobin: objection to start call for consensus for framework doc?
14:10:28 <darobin> ACTION: Robin to issue CfC for Framework
14:10:28 <trackbot> Created ACTION-184 - Issue CfC for Framework [on Robin Berjon - due 2010-06-16].
14:10:32 <LauraA> ... no objections
14:10:47 <dom> s/<darobin> RESOLUTION/<LauraA> RESOLUTION/
14:10:49 <Suresh> q+
14:10:50 <dom> ack me
14:10:55 <dom> q+
14:10:59 <darobin> ack LauraA 
14:10:59 <LauraA> ... XACML profile ready for 1 public WD?
14:11:03 <darobin> ack Suresh 
14:11:14 <dom> q-
14:11:22 <LauraA> Suresh: any IPR analysis has been done?
14:11:30 <LauraA> darobin: no idea, frederick might know
14:11:35 <LauraA> q+
14:11:43 <darobin> ack LauraA 
14:12:07 <LauraA> Suresh: maybe someone from the staff could do this analysis?
14:12:34 <LauraA> drogersuk: you can go to the OASIS website for information
14:12:41 <dom> -> http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=xacml XACML TC
14:12:51 <LauraA> darobin: frederick involved in OASIS, he might be the right person to ask
14:13:04 <darobin> ACTION: frederick to investigate IP status for XACML
14:13:04 <trackbot> Created ACTION-185 - Investigate IP status for XACML [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2010-06-16].
14:13:05 <LauraA> q-
14:13:14 <dom> -> http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/xacml/ipr.php "This TC operates under the RF on Limited Terms Mode of the OASIS IPR Policy"  
14:13:23 <LauraA> darobin: do we want to block on this?
14:13:27 <tlr> zakim, call thomas-781
14:13:28 <Zakim> ok, tlr; the call is being made
14:13:28 <Zakim> +Thomas
14:13:40 <dom> (it's normative)
14:14:03 <LauraA> Suresh: need to check if references to XACML are normative of informative
14:14:18 <LauraA> darobin: agree, that can be an issue
14:14:43 <LauraA> ... pending resolution for the XACML profile doc
14:15:07 <darobin> RESOLUTION: issue CfC for XACML, noting that there are some potential IP issues to investigate
14:15:12 <Suresh> Would prefer to resolve it sooner than later
14:15:17 <darobin> ACTION: Robin to issue CfC for XACML, noting that there are some potential IP issues to investigate
14:15:17 <trackbot> Created ACTION-186 - Issue CfC for XACML, noting that there are some potential IP issues to investigate [on Robin Berjon - due 2010-06-16].
14:15:42 <LauraA> darobin: third doc Examples document
14:15:45 <dom> q+
14:15:47 <dom> ack me
14:16:17 <LauraA> ... it is not very normative, should we make it right track? (??)
14:16:35 <tlr> s/right track? (??)/REC track?/
14:16:42 <dom> -> http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/policy/Profile.html XACML Profile draft
14:16:54 <dom> -> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/Overview.html DAP WG home page
14:17:03 <LauraA> dom: suggests making it a non-normative recommendation
14:17:07 <dom> -> http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/policy/Examples.html Policy Examples
14:17:07 <LauraA> http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/policy/Examples.html
14:17:40 <darobin> RESOLUTION: issue CfC for Examples, rectrack/non-normative
14:17:43 <LauraA> darobin: are we Ok with the CfC for the examples doc, but non-normative?
14:17:46 <darobin> ACTION: Robin to issue CfC for Examples, rectrack/non-normative
14:17:46 <trackbot> Created ACTION-187 - Issue CfC for Examples, rectrack/non-normative [on Robin Berjon - due 2010-06-16].
14:17:53 <dom> s/<darobin> RESOLUTION/<LauraA> RESOLUTION/g
14:18:09 <darobin> -> http://www.w3.org/mid/E37E3443-AF7B-4135-9C2D-A11FFE2A2480@nokia.com Frederick on policy reqs reorg
14:18:16 <dom> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Jun/att-0065/Proposal.html Proposed rework of policy requirements
14:18:19 <LauraA> darobin: e-mail from Frederick about policy reqs, suggesting reorganisation
14:18:32 <LauraA> ... any opinions on this proposal? anyone read it?
14:18:56 <jsalsman> I read it. I'm confused about what a prompt is
14:19:05 <LauraA> dom: suggest moving it to CVS
14:19:33 <dom> q+ jsalsma
14:19:44 <dom> ack jsalsma
14:20:27 <dom> ISSUE-28?
14:20:27 <trackbot> ISSUE-28 -- Requirement for NO security prompting -- pending review
14:20:27 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/28
14:20:41 <LauraA> jsalsman: conflicting position papers in the action item number 28, issue 28
14:21:02 <LauraA> ... 3 different position docs: 2 in agreement, 1 against
14:21:09 <jsalsman> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/28
14:21:10 <LauraA> darobin: not sure about the impact on this doc
14:21:48 <LauraA> jsalsman: ambiguity about what it is a prompt
14:22:18 <bryan_sullivan> q+
14:22:21 <LauraA> ... saying we want to eliminate prompts may not be the right thing (both modal and non-modal, they are both promtps)
14:22:27 <jmorris> q+
14:22:28 <alissa> q+
14:23:30 <darobin> ack bryan_sullivan 
14:23:39 <LauraA> darobin: the idea is to avoid prompts as far as possible
14:23:56 <LauraA> bryan_sullivan: intent to minimise prompt
14:24:08 <LauraA> ... policy can be defined to provide choice in the level of prompting
14:24:31 <darobin> ack jmorris 
14:24:33 <LauraA> ... goal is not to eliminate prompts entirely, that's not possible
14:24:39 <bryan_sullivan> q-
14:24:40 <darobin> ack alissa 
14:24:46 <dom> q+ jmorris
14:25:09 <LauraA> alissa: we might need to clarify what we understand under prompt, modal prompt etc.
14:25:14 <drogersuk> +1
14:25:16 <darobin> ack jmorris 
14:25:17 <LauraA> ... having a definition might be helpful
14:26:37 <LauraA> drogersuk: since we've separated the docs, we need to address that so that one can not take the APIs separately without taking into account the policy bit
14:27:01 <LauraA> darobin: who wrote the piece about convinience or not of prompt?
14:27:12 <LauraA> drogersuk: probably bondi
14:27:46 <LauraA> darobin: need a person to assign this action to
14:27:48 <LauraA> q+
14:28:01 <darobin> ack LauraA 
14:28:45 <darobin> action: Laura to propose clarification language around prompting, involving Paddy and James as needed
14:28:45 <trackbot> Created ACTION-188 - Propose clarification language around prompting, involving Paddy and James as needed [on Laura Arribas - due 2010-06-16].
14:28:49 <Zakim> -Claes
14:29:21 <LauraA> darobin: back to previous topic, should we give an action to frederick to put reqs doc into CVS?
14:29:25 <LauraA> dom: I'll do it
14:29:40 <LauraA> darobin: CfC for reqs doc?
14:29:47 <darobin> RESOLUTION: Issue a CfC for Policy Reqs
14:29:48 <LauraA> ... no objections
14:29:53 <darobin> ACTION: Robin to Issue a CfC for Policy Reqs
14:29:53 <trackbot> Created ACTION-189 - Issue a CfC for Policy Reqs [on Robin Berjon - due 2010-06-16].
14:30:07 <LauraA> darobin: anything else about policy?
14:30:13 <LauraA> ... nothing.
14:30:19 <LauraA> topic: Privacy
14:30:26 <LauraA> darobin: more docs to publish
14:30:41 <LauraA> ... reqs doc and rule set doc
14:30:48 <Zakim> +Claes
14:31:17 <dom> +1 on waiting for ruleset
14:31:21 <LauraA> alissa: for the W3C privacy doc submitted rule set doc as position paper
14:31:43 <LauraA> ... might be worth waiting after the W3C privacy workshop
14:31:54 <LauraA> darobin: anyone objects to waiting?
14:32:10 <LauraA> ... agreed not to publish the privacy ruleset yet
14:32:46 <LauraA> Suresh: about the ruleset doc, is it API independent like policy or linked to APIs?
14:33:08 <LauraA> alissa: not handled yet how APIs deal with rulesets
14:33:22 <dom> ACTION-106?
14:33:23 <trackbot> ACTION-106 -- Robin Berjon to address how licenses could be handled by the API's -- due 2010-03-23 -- OPEN
14:33:23 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/106
14:33:40 <LauraA> ... there are ideas but nothing documented yet
14:34:08 <Zakim> -LauraA
14:34:58 <dom> Alissa: thus far we haven't settled on how rulesets will intersect with the existing APIs
14:35:20 <Zakim> +LauraA
14:35:46 <darobin> RESOLUTION: Issue a CfC for the Privacy Requirements
14:35:50 <darobin> ACTION: Robin to Issue a CfC for the Privacy Requirements
14:35:50 <trackbot> Created ACTION-190 - Issue a CfC for the Privacy Requirements [on Robin Berjon - due 2010-06-16].
14:36:00 <Zakim> -LauraA
14:36:20 <darobin> Topic: APIs, SysInfo
14:37:25 <darobin> Robin: split core and extended?
14:37:28 <darobin> alissa: prefer to split
14:37:33 <jmorris> +1
14:37:58 <richt> richt has joined #dap
14:38:01 <darobin> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: split operatorName, apn, mcc, mnc to a separate, extended specification 
14:38:19 <dom> a+
14:38:20 <dom> q+
14:38:33 <jmorris> And SSID and Mac address are dropped, right?
14:38:35 <richt> richt has joined #dap
14:38:37 <jsalsman> this is for http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/system-info/ right?
14:38:49 <dom> q-
14:41:13 <darobin> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: drop operatorName, apn, mcc, mnc from SysInfo, revisit an Extended spec later
14:41:22 <Suresh> +1
14:41:33 <richt> richt has joined #dap
14:41:35 <darobin> RESOLUTION: drop operatorName, apn, mcc, mnc from SysInfo, revisit an Extended spec later
14:42:03 <alissa> q+
14:42:09 <darobin> ack alissa 
14:42:15 <dom> ACTION-183?
14:42:15 <trackbot> ACTION-183 -- Dzung Tran to drop connections[] and activeConnection, move to activeConnections[] and define clearly what "active" means -- due 2010-06-09 -- OPEN
14:42:15 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/183
14:42:31 <Zakim> +LauraA
14:42:52 <dom> q+ to note codecs
14:42:56 <dom> ack me
14:42:56 <Zakim> dom, you wanted to note codecs
14:43:12 <LauraA> darobin: any objections to CfC?
14:43:28 <richt2> richt2 has joined #dap
14:43:31 <jsalsman> http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/system-info/#audio-and-video-codecs
14:43:35 <richt2> richt2 has joined #dap
14:43:46 <dom> ISSUE-85 was raised for the capture API
14:43:54 <LauraA> jsalsman: see some issues with this section, could be developed a bit more
14:44:25 <LauraA> darobin: james, could you review SysInfo and share it in the list?
14:44:30 <LauraA> jsalsman: sure
14:44:43 <dom> ACTION: James to send pre-LC editorial comments on sysinfo
14:44:43 <trackbot> Created ACTION-191 - Send pre-LC editorial comments on sysinfo [on James Salsman - due 2010-06-16].
14:45:31 <darobin> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: issue a CfC of SysInfo for LC after ACTION-191 and subsequent edits, ACTION-183, and operatorName, apn, mcc, mnc have been dropped
14:45:44 <darobin> RESOLUTION: issue a CfC of SysInfo for LC after ACTION-191 and subsequent edits, ACTION-183, and operatorName, apn, mcc, mnc have been dropped
14:45:54 <dom> s/<darobin> RESOLUTION/<LauraA> RESOLUTION/g
14:46:08 <LauraA> topic: Contacts
14:46:25 <dom> -> http://www.w3.org/mid/AANLkTikT_RBr08jWh_-CKAPs1pCqHU_hJ-KhDqbaVGln@mail.gmail.com Contacts API updates
14:46:32 <LauraA> darobin: richard sent an e-mail, he made quite a few changes based on feedback received before
14:47:04 <dom> +1 on heartbeat publication
14:47:21 <LauraA> ... anyone objects to hearbeat publication for this API?
14:47:28 <Zakim> -David_Rogers
14:47:32 <LauraA> ... no objections
14:47:34 <darobin> RESOLUTION: publish a heartbeat of Contacts
14:47:41 <richt> richt has joined #dap
14:47:45 <darobin> ACTION: robin to request publication of Contacts
14:47:45 <trackbot> Created ACTION-192 - Request publication of Contacts [on Robin Berjon - due 2010-06-16].
14:47:54 <darobin> richt, you missed the discussion!
14:47:59 <dom> q+ to ask about LC goals
14:48:07 <darobin> richt, anything you want to say before we move on?
14:48:11 <richt> sorry I'm having serious issues with phone and wifi today :-(
14:48:56 <Zakim> + +035128935aakk
14:49:31 <LauraA> richt: sorry missed Contacts discussion
14:49:46 <LauraA> darobin: dom just asked about plans to move into LC
14:49:47 <dom> zakim, aakk is richt
14:49:47 <Zakim> +richt; got it
14:50:05 <LauraA> ... given current status of spec, and feedback received we could move to LC during the July F2F
14:50:45 <LauraA> richt: I made some updates from the received feedback. there are a few questions that still need answering
14:50:54 <darobin> ack dom 
14:50:54 <Zakim> dom, you wanted to ask about LC goals
14:50:56 <LauraA> ... i'll be creating a new document before next week's call
14:51:26 <LauraA> richt: I would like to wait until the next version of the spec
14:51:33 <LauraA> ... still need more feedback
14:51:50 <LauraA> ... would like to produce a larger set of properties
14:51:51 <jmorris> +1 on waiting for feedback on larger set of properties
14:52:16 <LauraA> darobin: agree, if you have updates coming, it makes sense to wait
14:52:59 <dom> (this relates to ISSUE-71 I think)
14:52:59 <LauraA> ... objections on waiting for publication?
14:53:17 <LauraA> ... no objections in the call
14:53:25 <Zakim> -richt
14:53:26 <LauraA> ... other issues to be discussed in the mailing list
14:53:39 <darobin> RESOLUTION: overturn previous resolution to publish contacts, wait for next update
14:54:02 <LauraA> darobin: end of the agenda
14:54:05 <LauraA> ... AOB?
14:54:19 <Zakim> -bryan_sullivan
14:54:19 <LauraA> thanks and good bye
14:54:20 <Zakim> -enewland
14:54:20 <Zakim> -Thomas
14:54:21 <Zakim> -Suresh
14:54:21 <Zakim> -darobin
14:54:23 <Zakim> -Dom
14:54:23 <Zakim> -jsalsman
14:54:24 <Zakim> -alissa
14:54:26 <Zakim> -Claes
14:54:30 <Zakim> -LauraA
14:54:32 <Zakim> -jmorris
14:54:34 <Zakim> -maoteo
14:54:36 <Zakim> -wojtekM
14:54:38 <Zakim> UW_DAP()10:00AM has ended
14:54:40 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.972.373.aaaa, Suresh, alissa, +1.650.335.aacc, Dom, +1.301.581.aadd, +04871719aaee, jsalsman, jmorris, darobin, +1.202.637.aaff, enewland, wojtekM, +04610801aagg,
14:54:43 <Zakim> ... Claes, +0777541aahh, +1.425.214.aaii, LauraA, David_Rogers, bryan_sullivan, +03491337aajj, maoteo, Thomas, +035128935aakk, richt
14:56:15 <darobin> RRSAgent: make minutes
14:56:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/06/09-dap-minutes.html darobin
14:58:36 <richt> richt has joined #dap
14:59:16 <richt> all finished? I will read the minutes.
15:00:15 <richt> there's a market for decent phone and internet here in Portugal :-)
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