18:54:29 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
18:54:29 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/06/07-html-a11y-irc
18:54:31 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
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18:54:33 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2119
18:54:33 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
18:54:34 <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
18:54:34 <trackbot> Date: 07 June 2010
18:54:50 <richardschwerdtfe> Zakim, this is 92473
18:54:50 <Zakim> richardschwerdtfe, I see WAI_PFWG(CANVAS)3:00PM in the schedule but not yet started.  Perhaps you mean "this will be 92473".
18:55:27 <richardschwerdtfe> meeting: W3C HTML Accessibility Task Force Canvas Accessibility meeting
18:55:31 <richardschwerdtfe> chair: Rich
18:57:16 <richardschwerdtfe> passcode is 92473
19:01:52 <davidb> finally!
19:03:14 <richardschwerdtfe> chair: Rich
19:05:03 <richardschwerdtfe> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2010AprJun/att-0052/2dcontext10-May-26.html
19:05:57 <Stevef> Stevef has joined #html-a11y
19:06:27 <richardschwerdtfe> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2010AprJun/att-0052/2dcontext10-May-26.html
19:07:57 <Stevef> "If the user has configured the operating system to draw focus rings in a certain way (e.g. high-contrast focus rings), or if the drawFocusRing  argument is absent or false, then the user agent MUST draw a focus ring of the appropriate style along the path defined by the by the coverted bounding rectangle. "
19:08:40 <Stevef> repeated "by the" and i don't understand the use of the word "coverted"
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19:09:37 <richardschwerdtfe> Topic: Prepare canvas API for straw poll
19:09:44 <richardschwerdtfe> scribe: Rich
19:15:24 <richardschwerdtfe> Rich: Steve and David support Take the proposal with Steve
19:15:46 <richardschwerdtfe> Rich: with Steve's editorial changes to a straw poll vote
19:16:15 <richardschwerdtfe> Rich: James Craig and Frank Olivier made no comments regarding the last proposal on the list
19:16:43 <richardschwerdtfe> RESOLUTION: Take June 7 proposal (with Steve's editorial changes) to staw poll vote
19:16:49 <richardschwerdtfe> Janina: I concur
19:17:41 <richardschwerdtfe> Rich: who will create straw poll?
19:18:29 <richardschwerdtfe> Rich: I will post the canvas api proposal from today to the task force and canvas list for staw poll vote
19:18:43 <richardschwerdtfe> Janina: Michael will create the straw poll 
19:19:42 <richardschwerdtfe> Janina: it may take a day or two to put up the straw poll vote and then leave a week for last comments
19:21:38 <richardschwerdtfe> Topic: Charles Proposal
19:21:45 <richardschwerdtfe> scribe: Janina
19:21:46 <janina> scribe: janina
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19:22:59 <janina> rich: would have to add support for what wasn't in html4
19:23:20 <janina> rich: can they be added? How does that work? How does keynav work? Hierarchies?
19:23:33 <janina> rich: need better definition on how it works
19:24:08 <janina> rich: for instance, we don't want canvas inside an areamap
19:24:30 <janina> steve: think imagemap useable for simple things
19:25:00 <janina> steve: our proposals supports the more complex
19:25:17 <janina> rich: so only elements in image map are links?
19:25:35 <janina> steve: area element, and override with role button
19:25:47 <janina> rich: overwrite wi aria, no standard controls
19:26:31 <janina> rich: can one support a dom hierarchy?
19:26:48 <janina> steve: nested elements, yes
19:27:02 <janina> steve: not sure they can overlap
19:27:29 <janina> steve: can't have list, 
19:27:43 <janina> rich: so a really big problem--missing struct to support a11y
19:27:54 <janina> steve: so now way to support menu
19:28:43 <janina> rich: if there's no struct, only button
19:28:53 <janina> steve: button, links tab
19:28:57 <janina> rich: need tablist
19:29:10 <janina> steve: but only a limited set can be supported
19:29:17 <janina> steve: alert, alert dialog
19:29:21 <janina> rich: how dialog?
19:29:31 <janina> steve: button checkbox, link
19:29:43 <janina> rich: can't do radio button because these are grouped
19:30:11 <janina> steve: textbox
19:30:18 <janina> rich: if just text, no ml
19:32:03 <janina> janina: so where's the benefit?
19:32:32 <janina> rich: think chaas oversimplified. willing to have discussion
19:32:36 <janina> janina: but no chaas
19:37:28 <janina> steve: my proposal is much simpler than chaas--not the same, don't misunderstand
19:37:34 <janina> steve: david has implemented
19:37:42 <janina> david: mapped
19:37:45 <janina> rich: struct?
19:37:47 <janina> david: not yet
19:38:02 <janina> rich: no text fields, any like
19:38:07 <janina> david: would have to be via js
19:38:21 <janina> rich: but not a text field
19:38:24 <janina> david: correct
19:38:37 <janina> rich: so can't draw
19:38:39 <janina> david: yes
19:38:46 <janina> rich: so just links with role
19:39:16 <janina> steve: advantages is simplicity for simple applications
19:39:48 <janina> steve: canvas is a moving image
19:40:17 <janina> rich: would need to limit aria roles that apply
19:40:39 <janina> rich: nothing that has, or depends on structural
19:41:41 <janina> steve: i understand it's limited, same limitation as imagemap on image
19:41:54 <janina> rich: we need to put limits on what chaas has said, if we try to move this forward
19:43:23 <davidb> I have to step away
19:43:37 <janina> steve: propose we put chaas aside until we have it
19:44:05 <janina> rich: suggest drop chaas altogether, and we ask that areamap included as fallback content when provided on canvas
19:44:10 <janina> steve: no,
19:44:23 <janina> steve: have a problem with the notion of fallback
19:44:34 <janina> rich: but with js you can change it
19:44:39 <janina> steve: not that ...
19:44:56 <janina> steve: devs need to see a quick way to add clickable region to canvas
19:45:07 <janina> rich: you're missing my point
19:45:40 <janina> rich: if nonav not provided, you need then to say that map overrides keyboard
19:46:55 <richardschwerdtfe> rich: when an area map is provided to the canvas element the area map keyboard navigation takes precedence over the content between the <canvas> and </canvas> elements
19:48:13 <richardschwerdtfe> rich: regarding the area element the ARIA Mapping group should enumerate the roles that may override the area elements
19:49:27 <richardschwerdtfe> rich: The aria mapping group should enumerate the roles that can override the canvas element
19:54:23 <janina> rich: actually, i'm now worried this creates a problem with focus ring
19:54:49 <janina> rich: now we have to accomodate areamap--not a small piece of work
19:55:00 <janina> steve: code already in browsers
19:55:37 <janina> rich: what binds visual rendering to what's in the map?
19:55:47 <janina> steve: why does it have to bind?
19:55:59 <janina> rich: where are the coordinates mapped?
19:56:31 <janina> steve: sorry? says use this map on this object, just like image
19:56:38 <janina> rich: works for image, but
19:56:57 <janina> rich: user draws focus currently, nothing will auto draw it without or nav
19:57:08 <janina> steve: that's the allure
19:57:38 <janina> steve: i've put transparant image over canvas and applied map to it
19:57:45 <janina> steve: works the same way as image
19:57:53 <janina> rich: not a logical mapping, a visual mapping?
19:58:07 <janina> rich: so that has to be explicitly stated, cannot be assumed
19:58:29 <janina> steve: where is this written down for how it applies to image?
19:58:35 <janina> rich: that's part of chaas concern
19:58:49 <janina> rich: worse than html4, according to chaas
19:59:44 <janina> rich: so you'll have browser draw, and we don't know about contrast over canvas ...
20:01:00 <Stevef> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/addimagemaptocanvas
20:01:49 <janina> steve: just trying to add imagemap to canvas without all the extra fancy stuff--widget support, for instance
20:02:22 <richardschwerdtfe> RRSAgent, make log public
20:02:35 <richardschwerdtfe> RRSAgent, draft minutes
20:02:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/06/07-html-a11y-minutes.html richardschwerdtfe
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