IRC log of dap on 2010-06-02

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:45:31 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #dap
13:45:31 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/06/02-dap-irc
13:45:33 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
13:45:33 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #dap
13:45:35 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be DAP
13:45:35 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see UW_DAP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 15 minutes
13:45:36 [trackbot]
Meeting: Device APIs and Policy Working Group Teleconference
13:45:36 [trackbot]
Date: 02 June 2010
13:45:54 [fjh]
Chair: Robin_Berjon, Frederick_Hirsch
13:46:19 [fjh]
Regrets: Dom, Marco_Marengo, John_Morris, Claes_Nilsson, Richard_Tibbett
13:46:32 [dom]
s/Dom/Dominique_Hazael-Massieux/
13:46:42 [fjh]
Regrets+ Alissa_Cooper
13:46:51 [fjh]
Present+ Robin_Berjon, Frederick_Hirsch
13:47:17 [fjh]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Jun/0012.html
13:54:03 [Dzung_Tran]
Dzung_Tran has joined #dap
13:54:11 [Dzung_Tran]
Present+ Dzung_Tran
13:55:01 [fjh]
Topic: Agenda review, Announcements
13:55:26 [fjh]
Additional announcement: upcoming Last Call for the Media Resource API
13:55:34 [fjh]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2010Jun/0023.html
13:56:01 [fjh]
The Media Annotations WG plans a 4 weeks Last Call review, ending on
13:56:01 [fjh]
July 11, 2010.
13:56:13 [darobin]
Present+ Robin_Berjon
13:56:43 [Zakim]
UW_DAP()10:00AM has now started
13:57:00 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
13:57:02 [darobin]
if possible I'd like to get several people reviewing the MAWG drafts
13:57:09 [fjh]
zakim, [IPcaller] is me
13:57:09 [Zakim]
+fjh; got it
13:57:14 [darobin]
last time there were a number of issues
13:57:31 [darobin]
tlr, but you'll join right? otherwise we have no team contact :)
13:58:22 [enewland]
enewland has joined #dap
13:58:34 [fjh]
add to agenda, action notification item
13:58:44 [Zakim]
+darobin
13:59:06 [Zakim]
+ +1.202.637.aaaa
13:59:15 [enewland]
present+
13:59:20 [Suresh]
Suresh has joined #dap
13:59:30 [Suresh]
Present+ Suresh_Chitturi
13:59:33 [darobin]
Present+ Erica_Newland
13:59:34 [Zakim]
+ +04871719aabb
13:59:34 [enewland]
present+ enewland
13:59:53 [fjh]
present- enewland
13:59:57 [wmaslowski]
Present+ Wojciech_Maslowski
14:00:00 [enewland]
zakim, .aaaa is enewland
14:00:01 [Zakim]
sorry, enewland, I do not recognize a party named '.aaaa'
14:00:01 [darobin]
Zakim, aaaa is enewland
14:00:03 [wonsuk]
wonsuk has joined #dap
14:00:05 [Zakim]
+enewland; got it
14:00:17 [wmaslowski]
me probably
14:00:25 [Zakim]
+ +1.972.373.aacc
14:00:26 [darobin]
Zakim, aabb is wmaslowski
14:00:29 [Zakim]
+wmaslowski; got it
14:00:40 [fjh]
zakim, who is here?
14:00:41 [Zakim]
On the phone I see fjh, darobin, enewland, wmaslowski, +1.972.373.aacc
14:00:42 [Suresh]
zakim, aacc is Suresh
14:00:43 [darobin]
Zakim, aacc is Suresh
14:00:47 [Zakim]
On IRC I see wonsuk, Suresh, enewland, Dzung_Tran, Zakim, RRSAgent, darobin, fjh, arve, wmaslowski, tlr, ingmar, ilkka, Marcos, dom, trackbot
14:00:52 [Zakim]
+Suresh; got it
14:00:56 [Zakim]
sorry, darobin, I do not recognize a party named 'aacc'
14:01:12 [Zakim]
+ +358.504.86aadd
14:01:13 [ilkka]
Present+ Ilkka_Oksanen
14:01:20 [Zakim]
+ +0777183aaee
14:01:20 [ilkka]
zakim, aadd is ilkka
14:01:28 [Zakim]
+ilkka; got it
14:01:41 [fjh]
zakim, who is here?
14:01:49 [Zakim]
+??P39
14:01:51 [Zakim]
On the phone I see fjh, darobin, enewland, wmaslowski, Suresh, ilkka, +0777183aaee, ??P39
14:01:52 [darobin]
Zakim, aaee is drogersuk
14:01:58 [paddy]
paddy has joined #dap
14:02:01 [Zakim]
+drogersuk; got it
14:02:05 [Zakim]
On IRC I see wonsuk, Suresh, enewland, Dzung_Tran, Zakim, RRSAgent, darobin, fjh, arve, wmaslowski, tlr, ingmar, ilkka, Marcos, dom, trackbot
14:02:10 [paddy]
present+ Paddy_Byers
14:02:11 [darobin]
Zakim, ??P39 is paddy
14:02:12 [Zakim]
+wonsuk
14:02:18 [Suresh]
ScribeNick: Suresh
14:02:22 [LauraA]
LauraA has joined #dap
14:02:26 [Zakim]
+paddy; got it
14:02:29 [wonsuk]
present+ Wonsuk_Lee
14:02:33 [LauraA]
Present+ LauraA
14:02:38 [Zakim]
+ +47.23.69.aaff
14:02:48 [arve]
Zakim, aaff is me
14:02:57 [AnssiK]
AnssiK has joined #dap
14:03:01 [Zakim]
+arve; got it
14:03:56 [Zakim]
+ +035850486aagg
14:04:07 [AnssiK]
zakim, aagg is AnssiK
14:04:08 [Zakim]
+AnssiK; got it
14:04:14 [AnssiK]
Present+ Anssi_Kostiainen
14:04:21 [fjh]
Additional announcement: upcoming Last Call for the Media Resource API
14:04:37 [fjh]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2010Jun/0023.html
14:04:55 [fjh]
The Media Annotations WG plans a 4 weeks Last Call review, ending on July 11 2010
14:05:20 [Suresh]
robin: reviewed previous versions..it is important for us (e.g. Gallery API)
14:05:37 [Suresh]
more people to review the better
14:05:49 [maoteo]
maoteo has joined #dap
14:05:55 [fjh]
Ontology for Media Resource 1.0
14:06:03 [fjh]
API for Media Resource 1.0
14:06:08 [Suresh]
fjh; any volunteers?
14:06:09 [drogersuk]
drogersuk has joined #dap
14:06:11 [fjh]
zakim, who is here?
14:06:11 [Zakim]
On the phone I see fjh, darobin, enewland, wmaslowski, Suresh, ilkka, drogersuk, paddy, wonsuk, arve, AnssiK
14:06:14 [Zakim]
On IRC I see drogersuk, maoteo, AnssiK, LauraA, paddy, wonsuk, Suresh, enewland, Dzung_Tran, Zakim, RRSAgent, darobin, fjh, arve, wmaslowski, tlr, ingmar, ilkka, Marcos, dom,
14:06:16 [Zakim]
... trackbot
14:06:19 [maoteo]
present+Maria_Oteo
14:07:06 [Zakim]
+ +0777541aahh
14:07:09 [fjh]
present+ Mario_Oteo
14:07:32 [Zakim]
-drogersuk
14:07:32 [darobin]
Zakim, aahh is LauraA
14:07:33 [Zakim]
+LauraA; got it
14:07:58 [darobin]
ACTION-143?
14:07:58 [trackbot]
ACTION-143 -- Anssi Kostiainen to provide feedback on the list on Gallery API -- due 2010-03-25 -- OPEN
14:07:58 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/143
14:08:09 [Zakim]
+??P12
14:08:13 [Zakim]
+ +1.425.214.aaii
14:08:16 [Suresh]
Anssi: I have an action for Gallery API, and can also take this one together
14:08:17 [bryan_sullivan]
bryan_sullivan has joined #dap
14:08:32 [drogersuk]
present+ David_Rogers
14:08:33 [bryan_sullivan]
present+bryan_sullivan
14:08:34 [Zakim]
+ +03491337aajj
14:08:35 [fjh]
Present+ Laura_Arribas
14:08:43 [bryan_sullivan]
present+ bryan_sullivan
14:08:56 [maoteo]
Zakim, aajj is maoteo
14:08:56 [Zakim]
+maoteo; got it
14:09:26 [Suresh]
Action: Bryan (AT&T) to review API and Ontology for Media Resource API
14:09:26 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-181 - (AT&T) to review API and Ontology for Media Resource API [on Bryan Sullivan - due 2010-06-09].
14:09:41 [darobin]
Action: Robin to review API and Ontology for Media Resource API
14:09:43 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-182 - Review API and Ontology for Media Resource API [on Robin Berjon - due 2010-06-09].
14:09:53 [Zakim]
- +1.425.214.aaii
14:10:01 [fjh]
zakim, mute aaii
14:10:01 [Zakim]
sorry, fjh, I do not know which phone connection belongs to aaii
14:10:08 [darobin]
Zakim, mute maoteo
14:10:08 [Zakim]
maoteo should now be muted
14:10:14 [bryan_sullivan]
that was me - reconnecting
14:10:36 [Zakim]
+ +1.425.214.aakk
14:10:44 [darobin]
+1
14:11:09 [maoteo]
Zakim, unmute me
14:11:09 [Zakim]
maoteo should no longer be muted
14:11:10 [fjh]
Deadline Extended to 7 June for Privacy Workshop Position Papers
14:11:12 [Suresh]
The group to enable notifications of action items follow-up
14:11:12 [bryan_sullivan]
zakim, +1.425.214.aakk is bryan
14:11:12 [Zakim]
+bryan; got it
14:11:27 [fjh]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Jun/0002.html
14:11:36 [fjh]
DAP registration form
14:11:44 [fjh]
http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/43696/london2010/
14:12:40 [Suresh]
Resolution: The group to enable action notifications
14:13:02 [fjh]
Topic: Minutes approval
14:13:03 [fjh]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010May/att-0131/26-dap-minutes.html
14:13:06 [Suresh]
Suresh has joined #dap
14:13:09 [fjh]
26 May 2010
14:13:15 [Suresh]
Present+ Suresh_Chitturi
14:13:41 [Suresh]
RESOLUTION: 26 May 2010 minutes approved
14:13:56 [fjh]
Topic: Policy Framework
14:14:01 [Suresh]
TOPIC: Policy framework
14:14:13 [LauraA]
http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/policy/Framework.html
14:14:21 [LauraA]
http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/policy/Profile.html
14:14:29 [LauraA]
http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/policy/Examples.html
14:15:27 [Suresh]
Laura: Examples document may need more examples
14:16:04 [tlr]
zakim, call thomas-781
14:16:05 [Zakim]
ok, tlr; the call is being made
14:16:08 [Zakim]
+Thomas
14:16:12 [tlr]
zakim, I am thomas
14:16:13 [tlr]
zakim, mute me
14:16:14 [Zakim]
ok, tlr, I now associate you with Thomas
14:16:16 [Zakim]
Thomas should now be muted
14:16:24 [Suresh]
Laura: focusing on framework document, and any help with other documents would be good
14:16:59 [Suresh]
Topic: Powerbox
14:17:03 [fjh]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010May/0133.html
14:17:36 [fjh]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Jun/0009.html
14:17:38 [Suresh]
fjh: a concern expressed on the list re what we are doing
14:17:51 [fjh]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Jun/0020.html
14:18:04 [Suresh]
q+
14:18:10 [fjh]
ack Suresh
14:18:11 [drogersuk]
q+
14:19:08 [Suresh]
Suresh: Is there a relation between the two?
14:19:48 [Suresh]
fjh: the group agreed to work on the current JS API approach
14:19:54 [tlr]
q?
14:20:08 [fjh]
q+
14:20:27 [fjh]
ack drogersuk
14:20:38 [darobin]
ACTION-109?
14:20:38 [trackbot]
ACTION-109 -- Robin Berjon to write up Prague Doctrine (define in WebIDL, have mappings to JS and REST as needed, leave which is implemented up to implementers just like they could decide to map WebIDL to Java, have orthogonal installation/exposing aspects like PB defined, well, orthogonally) -- due 2010-03-23 -- OPEN
14:20:38 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/109
14:21:24 [fjh]
Remember the WG agreed with Resolution on javascript API priority, so we continue with that approach. However it is good to have this additional material to review
14:21:37 [Suresh]
David: to make this succesful, we need to engagement,
14:21:58 [Suresh]
the proponents should attend the F2F, it is critical
14:22:39 [fjh]
I note that this powerbox revision is an improvement and offers more clarity on that approach
14:22:48 [fjh]
q-
14:22:50 [Suresh]
we need to understand how the powerbox model fits into mobile (e.g. Android)
14:22:59 [drogersuk]
was hoping the guys would be on the call today
14:23:39 [Suresh]
fjh: wondering about the acronym UMP used in the draft, IPR issues, etc.
14:23:42 [drogersuk]
we have bryan here - he has to do the same
14:24:08 [Suresh]
APIs - SysInfo
14:24:16 [Suresh]
Topic: APIs -SysInfo
14:24:26 [fjh]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010May/0144.html
14:24:36 [fjh]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010May/0145.html
14:24:45 [fjh]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Jun/0001.html
14:25:31 [Suresh]
robin: we have a few issues to discuss before we proceed towards Call for Consensus (Last call)
14:25:53 [darobin]
-> http://www.w3.org/mid/6BEB465A-A2E8-457B-9842-0EB71F43E305@cdt.org
14:26:34 [fjh]
q+ to ask about timing of extension api
14:28:27 [darobin]
q+
14:28:42 [Suresh]
Bryan: the use cases are more driven from mobile,
14:29:27 [Suresh]
robin: disagree that it is mobile spec, yes mobile is important but the API needs to work on other devices as well
14:30:00 [Suresh]
concerns about privacy were also raised
14:30:08 [darobin]
ack me
14:30:23 [tlr]
q+
14:30:41 [Suresh]
Bryan: knowing the operator and roaming are good indicators
14:31:03 [Suresh]
a distinction between national and international can be sufficient
14:31:27 [Suresh]
home-> home domain
14:31:50 [tlr]
zakim, unmute me
14:31:50 [Zakim]
Thomas should no longer be muted
14:32:45 [Suresh]
...it allows to optimize network interaction
14:33:18 [drogersuk]
high cost when roaming is the use case robin
14:33:26 [drogersuk]
protecting the consumer
14:33:29 [fjh]
use cases - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010May/0145.html
14:34:20 [AnssiK]
"The System Information API: Mobile Extensions"
14:34:27 [darobin]
-> http://www.w3.org/mid/21CEE6D6-BF5E-4ACC-A8FE-954E9B37838B@berjon.com Roaming discussion
14:34:33 [darobin]
+1 to tlr's proposal
14:34:38 [Suresh]
tlr: moving it into a separate specification may help
14:34:43 [Zakim]
-LauraA
14:35:03 [darobin]
ack fjh
14:35:03 [Zakim]
fjh, you wanted to ask about timing of extension api
14:35:17 [Zakim]
+LauraA
14:35:48 [drogersuk]
I agree - this is a very important use case for users and operators
14:35:56 [drogersuk]
most devices have UICCs in these days
14:36:18 [Suresh]
Bryan: we don't need a separate specification, we just need to support an API to access supported properties
14:36:48 [fjh]
q+
14:36:51 [fjh]
ack thomas
14:36:57 [darobin]
PROPOSED RESOLUTION: split operatorName, apn, mcc, mnc to a separate, extended specification
14:37:17 [drogersuk]
let me take this back into OMTP
14:37:29 [drogersuk]
I can get some more feedback
14:37:29 [Suresh]
Suresh has joined #dap
14:37:37 [Suresh]
Present+ Suresh Chitturi
14:37:54 [Suresh]
sorry i got disconnected again:-(
14:37:55 [tlr]
move it into CR independently
14:38:32 [drogersuk]
q+
14:39:10 [fjh]
ack fjh
14:39:20 [darobin]
RB: we can move both to LC (even if the extension is FPWD) at the same time
14:40:08 [Suresh]
David: where are the objections coming from (e.g. roaming, network operator)?
14:40:19 [fjh]
operatorName, mcc, mnc ?
14:40:26 [darobin]
-> http://www.w3.org/mid/6BEB465A-A2E8-457B-9842-0EB71F43E305@cdt.org origin of discussion
14:40:30 [darobin]
and apn
14:40:37 [bryan_sullivan]
q+
14:41:26 [Suresh]
robin: the idea is to put them in a separate spec
14:42:07 [Suresh]
droger: we are not being consistent....
14:42:17 [Suresh]
....we have policy to control access
14:43:05 [Suresh]
robin; the API design is to work independent of policy
14:43:59 [dom]
s/;/:/
14:44:50 [fjh]
s/sorry i got disconnected again:-(//
14:45:20 [fjh]
q+
14:45:27 [Suresh]
droger: we should not pick on individual fields
14:45:27 [fjh]
ack drogersuk
14:45:50 [Suresh]
robin: we have looked at other fields such as SSID, etc
14:45:57 [fjh]
q- fjh
14:46:08 [tlr]
q+
14:46:28 [fjh]
q+
14:47:19 [fjh]
q-
14:47:23 [Suresh]
fjh: is the concern that if it is a separate spec it will be dropped?
14:47:45 [Suresh]
droger: i'm happy to take a look at this again with an action
14:48:35 [Dzung_Tran]
same here, I don't know why we want another spec. It will get drop.
14:49:24 [Suresh]
droger: we would like more time to review before going to LC
14:50:09 [darobin]
PROPOSED RESOLUTION: we give one week, and not a day more, to receive an objection to splitting off operatorName, apn, mcc, mnc into a separate specification that is reasonably grounded
14:50:16 [Suresh]
robin; one week is reasonable but not more
14:50:42 [fjh]
q+
14:50:49 [Suresh]
s/;/:
14:51:09 [tlr]
q-
14:51:42 [fjh]
q-
14:51:52 [fjh]
ack bryan
14:52:20 [Suresh]
Bryan: i don't see the value in moving few properties into seprate spec
14:52:56 [fjh]
s/sepate/separate/
14:53:12 [Suresh]
...passing string to access property value is the correct approach
14:54:16 [darobin]
RESOLUTION: The SysInfo mobile network attribute gets one week extra discussion, decision for LC will be made next Thursday
14:55:12 [fjh]
my understanding is that if there is an extension spec, it would go into LC at the same time
14:55:19 [drogersuk]
Sorry guys I have to go to another call
14:55:27 [Zakim]
-??P12
14:56:02 [darobin]
PROPOSED RESOLUTION: drop connections[] and activeConnection, move to activeConnections[]
14:56:15 [Suresh]
robin; re active connections, we agreed to keep only active connections
14:56:39 [Suresh]
Bryan: do we mean available or transfering data?
14:56:40 [darobin]
BS: we need to define clearly what "active" means
14:58:21 [darobin]
RESOLUTION: drop connections[] and activeConnection, move to activeConnections[]
14:58:31 [fjh]
s/BS/Bryan/
14:58:38 [darobin]
ACTION: Dzung to drop connections[] and activeConnection, move to activeConnections[] and define clearly what "active" means
14:58:38 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-183 - Drop connections[] and activeConnection, move to activeConnections[] and define clearly what "active" means [on Dzung Tran - due 2010-06-09].
14:58:50 [bryan_sullivan]
q-
14:59:14 [Zakim]
-LauraA
14:59:55 [Suresh]
Topic: Contacts API
15:00:05 [fjh]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Jun/0007.html
15:00:31 [tlr]
+1 to deferring
15:00:36 [Suresh]
robin: we received feedback from Mozilla, with specific details
15:00:38 [fjh]
+1 to defer
15:00:46 [tlr]
ack thomas
15:01:12 [Suresh]
Contacts API discussion deferred...
15:02:05 [Suresh]
tlr: Announcement: Privacy workshop deadline pushed back
15:03:18 [Suresh]
Suresh> would Opera continue with editorship with Messaging API?
15:03:28 [wmaslowski]
i think he handed it to someone - should be in the minutes
15:05:35 [Zakim]
-enewland
15:05:36 [Zakim]
-Thomas
15:05:36 [Zakim]
-darobin
15:05:37 [Zakim]
-AnssiK
15:05:38 [Zakim]
-paddy
15:05:39 [Zakim]
-fjh
15:05:40 [Zakim]
-arve
15:05:41 [Zakim]
-Suresh
15:05:43 [Zakim]
-bryan
15:05:46 [Zakim]
-maoteo
15:05:48 [Zakim]
-wonsuk
15:05:50 [Zakim]
-wmaslowski
15:05:50 [AnssiK]
AnssiK has left #dap
15:05:52 [Zakim]
-ilkka
15:05:54 [Zakim]
UW_DAP()10:00AM has ended
15:05:55 [fjh]
rrsagent, generate minutes
15:05:55 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/06/02-dap-minutes.html fjh
15:05:55 [wonsuk]
wonsuk has left #dap
15:05:56 [Zakim]
Attendees were fjh, darobin, +1.202.637.aaaa, +04871719aabb, enewland, +1.972.373.aacc, wmaslowski, Suresh, +358.504.86aadd, +0777183aaee, ilkka, drogersuk, wonsuk, paddy,
15:05:59 [Zakim]
... +47.23.69.aaff, arve, +035850486aagg, AnssiK, +0777541aahh, LauraA, +1.425.214.aaii, +03491337aajj, maoteo, bryan, Thomas
15:08:07 [fjh]
present- Suresh Chitturi
15:08:15 [fjh]
present+ Suresh_Chitturi
15:08:45 [fjh]
present- LauraA
15:09:54 [fjh]
present- Mario_Oteo
15:10:52 [fjh]
s/tlr, but you'll join right? otherwise we have no team contact :)//
15:11:04 [fjh]
s/me probably//
15:11:37 [dom]
s/<darobin> RESOLUTION:/<Suresh> RESOLUTION:/g
15:11:52 [dom]
s/robin; /robin: /gg
15:12:17 [fjh]
s/APIs - SysInfo//
15:12:32 [fjh]
rrsagent, generate minutes
15:12:32 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/06/02-dap-minutes.html fjh
15:14:48 [arve]
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15:33:06 [dom]
darobin, fjh, was there any plan discussed for migrating MaxF's editorships? esp. for messaging?
15:33:14 [dom]
I'm trying to figure out what to do with his open action items
15:41:28 [darobin]
it was discussed, Suresh might be interested, and arve is asking inside opera
15:41:33 [darobin]
that's all we got
15:42:33 [dom]
ok, thx
16:06:16 [wmaslowski]
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