09:00:32 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #mediafrag
09:00:32 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/05/26-mediafrag-irc
09:00:34 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
09:00:34 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #mediafrag
09:00:36 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be IA_MFWG
09:00:36 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see IA_MFWG()5:00AM scheduled to start now
09:00:37 <trackbot> Meeting: Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference
09:00:37 <trackbot> Date: 26 May 2010
09:00:41 <erik> erik has joined #mediafrag
09:01:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/26-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
09:01:15 <Zakim> IA_MFWG()5:00AM has now started
09:01:22 <Zakim> +raphael
09:01:23 <raphael> Chair: Erik, Raphael
09:01:40 <raphael> Regrets: Silvia
09:02:12 <raphael> Present: Michael, Erik, Raphael
09:02:19 <Zakim> +Erik
09:02:27 <raphael> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2010May/0074.html
09:02:38 <raphael> Present+ Davy
09:02:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/26-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
09:09:49 <raphael> Scribe: raphael
09:09:56 <raphael> Scribenick: raphael
09:10:02 <raphael> Topic: 1. Admin
09:10:08 <raphael> PROPOSED to accept the short minutes of the 19 May 2010 telecon
09:10:13 <raphael> http://www.w3.org/2010/05/19-mediafrag-minutes.html
09:10:17 <raphael> +1
09:10:17 <mhausenblas> +1
09:10:19 <davy> +1
09:10:21 <erik> +1
09:10:23 <raphael> Minutes accepted
09:10:30 <raphael> ACTION-162?
09:10:30 <trackbot> ACTION-162 -- Raphaël Troncy to provide practical information for the next F2F -- due 2010-05-19 -- OPEN
09:10:30 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/162
09:10:42 <Zakim> +mhausenblas
09:10:44 <raphael> close ACTION-162
09:10:44 <trackbot> ACTION-162 Provide practical information for the next F2F closed
09:11:13 <raphael> More details: http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/SixthF2FAgenda
09:12:30 <raphael> Raphael: I think Yves will be able to carry the 4-5 people to the meeting from the hotel since he is living close by
09:13:04 <raphael> Present+ Silvia (irc)
09:13:38 <raphael> Raphael: I think we should propose a talk to the Open Video Conference
09:13:47 <mhausenblas> +1
09:14:08 <erik> +1
09:14:14 <davy> +1
09:14:14 <raphael> Erik: what about proposing a duo presentation, Raphael and Davy, similar to WWW, but more complete
09:14:16 <raphael> +1
09:14:24 <davy> +1
09:14:36 <raphael> Raphael: we can work out the abstract starting from the WWW one on the mailing list
09:15:26 <raphael> ... I think we should go for the 30-45' talk
09:16:02 <raphael> ACTION: Raphael to send on the mailing list the abstract for a talk proposal
09:16:02 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - Raphael
09:16:08 <raphael> ACTION: troncy to send on the mailing list the abstract for a talk proposal
09:16:08 <trackbot> Created ACTION-165 - Send on the mailing list the abstract for a talk proposal [on Raphaël Troncy - due 2010-06-02].
09:17:12 <raphael> Topic: 2. Specification
09:17:33 <raphael> Erik: still a lot of action to Yves, we cannot talk about still
09:17:39 <raphael> ACTION-123?
09:17:39 <trackbot> ACTION-123 -- Silvia Pfeiffer to come up with ABNF for header syntax -- due 2009-12-09 -- OPEN
09:17:39 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/123
09:17:51 <raphael> close ACTION-123
09:17:51 <trackbot> ACTION-123 Come up with ABNF for header syntax closed
09:19:04 <raphael> Raphael: Frank Denoual has commented on Silvia's work and Silvia has addressed the comments
09:19:16 <raphael> ... I'm all for giving an action to Yves for reviewing the ABNF
09:19:34 <erik> +1
09:19:42 <raphael> ACTION: yves to review the ABNF syntax of the HTTP headers introduced by the Media Fragment URI spec
09:19:42 <trackbot> Created ACTION-166 - Review the ABNF syntax of the HTTP headers introduced by the Media Fragment URI spec [on Yves Lafon - due 2010-06-02].
09:21:07 <raphael> Raphael: rendering of fragment in UA ... how far should we go
09:21:22 <raphael> Davy: we should discuss possibilities, but not provide recommendations
09:21:57 <raphael> Topic: 3. Test Cases
09:22:05 <raphael> ACTION-164?
09:22:05 <trackbot> ACTION-164 -- Erik Mannens to report to the group whether such an approach from RDFa test suite can be used for automatically testing the media fragment specification -- due 2010-05-26 -- OPEN
09:22:05 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/164
09:22:15 <raphael> See also: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2010May/0067.html
09:22:27 <raphael> close ACTION-164
09:22:27 <trackbot> ACTION-164 Report to the group whether such an approach from RDFa test suite can be used for automatically testing the media fragment specification closed
09:25:04 <raphael> Michael: ok with the extension, but my problem is that we do not rely only on the HTTP status code
09:25:31 <raphael> ... there is also the need for a user assessment that the visual rendering is correct
09:25:57 <raphael> Raphael: really? if we do not recommend the rendering of a fragment, then no need ... for the automatic test suite
09:26:35 <raphael> ... and there are 2 kind of evaluations, server side and UA side
09:29:27 <raphael> Raphael: for me there is test suite for the UA (correct parsing of the media fragment URI syntax + correct rendering of the fragment?) and the test suite for the server (the automatic test suite from Davy we are talking about)
09:29:51 <raphael> Davy: we have done our own implementation, JSON files, no DB, but we would like to link it to corrib now
09:30:12 <raphael> Michael: is there some pointers I can have a look to to better understand what you have done
09:31:54 <raphael> Raphael: can we say that mftc:expectedHTTPStatusCode
09:32:02 <raphael> ... returns a 2xx ?
09:32:16 <mhausenblas> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-httpbis-p2-semantics-08#section-8.2.1
09:32:25 <raphael> ... for a 206 or a 200
09:32:49 <mhausenblas> http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2616#section-10.2.1
09:34:16 <raphael> Raphael: I like this ontology: http://www.w3.org/2008/http-statusCodes
09:35:10 <raphael> Raphael: My other concern is do we want a litteral for the property mftc:expectedVisualResults ?
09:35:27 <raphael> ... or do we want controlled values ?
09:35:48 <mhausenblas> http://www.w3.org/TR/HTTP-in-RDF10/
09:39:33 <raphael> Michael: do we really need this property if we test the server?
09:39:50 <raphael> Davy: no automatic evaluation for this one, not trivial
09:41:42 <raphael> ... we actually test more than the HTTP headers, for example that the bytes sent in the body of the response correspond to the original bytes in the media
09:42:12 <raphael> Michael: I would suggest to remove this property if we don't see how it will be used
09:42:30 <raphael> Davy: I'm thinking of using corrib for testing also the UA side
09:42:37 <raphael> ... so I might need it later on
09:43:20 <raphael> Davy: then we need to think now about the test framework for the UA side!
09:43:32 <raphael> ... because we will NOT edit again and again the test suite
09:43:37 <raphael> Michael: I agree with you
09:45:08 <raphael> Raphael: how we should proceed then ?
09:46:34 <raphael> Erik: should we have test movies ? How many ?
09:47:22 <raphael> Raphael: we can use the one Silvia is using (the cartoon, need to find the title) used by Mozilla demos
09:47:41 <raphael> ... we don't need many, perhaps 5 in different formats, would be good
09:47:44 <silvia> Elephant Dreams
09:48:18 <raphael> Raphael: Silvia, if you're reading, could we give you an ACTION to find 4-5 movies, licence free, we could use in our test cases ?
09:48:25 <raphael> ... Elephant Dreams is one of them
09:48:30 <raphael> ... what else ?
09:48:36 <silvia> very hard indeed
09:48:54 <silvia> I go to creative commons and download from there
09:49:46 <mhausenblas> Michael: Server-Test Suite would consist of: corrib-output (RDF): manifest, media files, driver (takes manifest and applies to each set of media files and generates EARL)
09:49:47 <raphael> ACTION: Erik to find licence free movies for the automatic test suite ... starting with Elephant Dreams and the creative commons
09:49:47 <trackbot> Created ACTION-167 - Find licence free movies for the automatic test suite ... starting with Elephant Dreams and the creative commons [on Erik Mannens - due 2010-06-02].
09:49:55 <silvia> http://creativecommons.org/videos
09:50:24 <raphael> ACTION: Davy to investigate how the automatic test suite could also be done for evaluating the UA behavior
09:50:24 <trackbot> Created ACTION-168 - Investigate how the automatic test suite could also be done for evaluating the UA behavior [on Davy Van Deursen - due 2010-06-02].
09:50:25 <silvia> just get videos from there
09:51:24 <raphael> Raphael: we are waiting for the output of this action before asking Michael to extend corrib
09:51:28 <raphael> Topic: 4. AOB ?
09:51:53 <raphael> close ACTION-164
09:51:53 <trackbot> ACTION-164 Report to the group whether such an approach from RDFa test suite can be used for automatically testing the media fragment specification closed
09:52:17 <raphael> [meeting adjourned]
09:52:30 <Zakim> -mhausenblas
09:52:33 <Zakim> -raphael
09:52:42 <Zakim> -Erik
09:52:44 <Zakim> IA_MFWG()5:00AM has ended
09:52:46 <Zakim> Attendees were raphael, Erik, mhausenblas
09:52:49 <raphael> Raphael: I hope we will have Yves and Jack on the phone next week to progress further !
09:53:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/26-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
09:54:24 <raphael> ScribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics
09:54:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/26-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
09:59:39 <raphael> can I phone you at 14:00 ? to send you some doc ?
10:00:05 <silvia> yup, time for dinner
10:00:12 <silvia> thanks everyone!
10:02:47 <raphael> I hope we will get more people next telecon ... minutes just sent to the mailing list
10:05:56 <davy> davy has left #mediafrag
10:07:21 <raphael> zakim, bye
10:07:21 <Zakim> Zakim has left #mediafrag
10:07:31 <raphael> RRSAgent, bye
10:07:31 <RRSAgent> I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2010/05/26-mediafrag-actions.rdf :
10:07:31 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Raphael to send on the mailing list the abstract for a talk proposal [1]
10:07:31 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/05/26-mediafrag-irc#T09-16-02
10:07:31 <RRSAgent> ACTION: troncy to send on the mailing list the abstract for a talk proposal [2]
10:07:31 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/05/26-mediafrag-irc#T09-16-08
10:07:31 <RRSAgent> ACTION: yves to review the ABNF syntax of the HTTP headers introduced by the Media Fragment URI spec [3]
10:07:31 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/05/26-mediafrag-irc#T09-19-42
10:07:31 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Erik to find licence free movies for the automatic test suite ... starting with Elephant Dreams and the creative commons [4]
10:07:31 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/05/26-mediafrag-irc#T09-49-47
10:07:31 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Davy to investigate how the automatic test suite could also be done for evaluating the UA behavior [5]
10:07:31 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/05/26-mediafrag-irc#T09-50-24