21:58:10 RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
21:58:10 logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/05/26-html-a11y-irc
21:58:27 zakim, this will be html-a11y
21:58:27 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, janina
21:58:39 zakim, this will be media
21:58:39 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, janina
21:58:41 trackbot, start meeting
21:58:43 RRSAgent, make logs world
21:58:45 Zakim, this will be 2119
21:58:45 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(A11Y)6:00PM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
21:58:46 Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
21:58:46 Date: 26 May 2010
21:58:59 zakim, call janina
21:58:59 ok, janina; the call is being made
21:59:00 WAI_PFWG(A11Y)6:00PM has now started
21:59:01 +Janina
21:59:27 +Michael_Cooper
21:59:33 zakim, drop janina
21:59:33 Janina is being disconnected
21:59:34 -Janina
21:59:39 zakim, call janina
21:59:39 ok, janina; the call is being made
21:59:40 -Michael_Cooper
21:59:40 +Michael_Cooper
21:59:40 +Janina
22:00:11 zakim, drop janina
22:00:11 Janina is being disconnected
22:00:13 -Janina
22:00:17 zakim, call janina
22:00:17 ok, janina; the call is being made
22:00:19 +Janina
22:00:58 -Janina
22:01:13 +Janina_Sajka
22:01:21 JF has joined #html-a11y
22:01:23 zakim, who is on the phone?
22:01:23 On the phone I see Michael_Cooper, Janina_Sajka
22:01:38 +John_Foliot
22:01:45 agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010May/0174.html
22:01:58 regrets+ Geoff_Freed
22:02:14 regrets+ Eric_Carlson
22:02:24 +Silvia
22:02:35 zakim, mute me
22:02:35 Silvia should now be muted
22:02:40 chair: John_Foliot
22:02:54 zakim, code?
22:02:54 the conference code is 2119 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), Judy
22:03:04 +Judy
22:03:05 meeting: Media sub-group - HTML A11Y TF
22:03:22 zakim, who's here?
22:03:22 On the phone I see Michael_Cooper, Janina_Sajka, John_Foliot, Silvia (muted), Judy
22:03:25 On IRC I see JF, RRSAgent, Zakim, janina, Judy, MichaelC, silvia, trackbot
22:03:32 MikeSmith has joined #html-a11y
22:04:15 +??P5
22:04:31 mkobayas has joined #html-a11y
22:04:48 Zakim, call Mike
22:04:48 ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
22:04:50 +Mike
22:04:59 zakim, ??P5 is Sean_Hayes
22:04:59 +Sean_Hayes; got it
22:05:18 Zakim, Mike is me
22:05:18 +MikeSmith; got it
22:05:52 Sean has joined #html-a11y
22:06:12 zakim, who is on the phone?
22:06:12 On the phone I see Michael_Cooper, Janina_Sajka, John_Foliot, Silvia (muted), Judy, Sean_Hayes, MikeSmith
22:07:32 == Agenda ==
22:07:41 1. Action Review
22:07:56 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/products/2
22:08:10 action-32
22:08:34 Zakim, mute me
22:08:35 MikeSmith should now be muted
22:08:52 zakim, action-32
22:08:52 I don't understand 'action-32', silvia
22:09:14 Follow up w/ Gunnar Hellstrom on comprehensiveness of secondary signed channel requirements
22:09:39 Judy will add requirements as she gets them - not yet received feedback
22:09:46 AllanJ has joined #html-a11y
22:09:50 frankolivier has joined #html-a11y
22:10:12 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/35
22:10:32 zakim, unmute me
22:10:32 Silvia should no longer be muted
22:10:59 +[Microsoft]
22:11:18 zakim, Microsoft is frankolivier
22:11:18 +frankolivier; got it
22:11:50 +1 to Sylvia's restructuring of the doc
22:11:54 close action-45
22:11:54 ACTION-45 Structure requirements into a numbered system closed
22:12:06 zakim, mute me
22:12:06 Silvia should now be muted
22:12:17 frank is working through action-35
22:12:55 action-35 due 28 May
22:12:55 ACTION-35 Write cues requirements due date now 28 May
22:13:06 silvia restructured the document and added numbered requirements, so action-45 is fulfilled
22:13:24 q+
22:13:33 actions 42 and 43 by Judy will be updated as Judy receives input
22:13:49 +allanj
22:13:53 Topic 2. Requirements Gathering (Review)
22:14:10 JF: I'd like to encourage the larger working group to do a review
22:14:55 … we want to wrap this up as quickly as possible
22:15:07 judy, ack
22:15:34 ack j
22:15:35 zakim, ack judy
22:15:35 I see no one on the speaker queue
22:15:51 mkobayas has joined #html-a11y
22:16:26 judy: I have some issues with some of the wording in the requirements document
22:17:09 judy: with permission, I would go in and change those
22:17:31 JF: one of the advantages of the wiki is that if you're a member of the group, you should edit
22:17:47 … you're best familiar with the correct terminology
22:19:16 judy: e.g. the term learning disability has different meanings in different parts of Europe
22:20:38 Janina: I think we can do this synchronously and I'm glad Judy is offering to do this
22:21:27 JF: of all the people on this call, you're probably the best person to do this
22:21:38 + +61.3.986.4.aaaa - is perhaps Kenny_Johar
22:21:53 zakim, Kenny is really Kenny_Johar
22:21:53 +Kenny_Johar; got it
22:22:51 Janina: I wanted to discuss if content navigation is system or authoring technology
22:23:09 Jim: you really need to make sure you create the structure during creation
22:23:45 Janina: so, it is content, because it is important to have it created during authoring
22:23:57 Jim: yes, but there is also a need to have the navigation technology
22:25:22 JF: this is mostly important for audio - I regard video as the dominant timeline here
22:25:28 q+
22:25:45 Janina: I don't see a problem with making the video the master timeline
22:25:49 zakim, umnute me
22:25:49 I don't understand 'umnute me', silvia
22:25:53 zakim, unmute me
22:25:53 Silvia should no longer be muted
22:26:11 ack s
22:29:46 zakim, mute me
22:29:46 Silvia should now be muted
22:30:12 zakim, unmute me
22:30:12 Silvia should no longer be muted
22:30:53 zakim, mute me
22:30:53 Silvia should now be muted
22:31:32 silvia: for both, video and audio, the media will stay in control of the timeline and the structure points will be associated to them
22:31:52 … so structural navigation applies to both
22:32:10 … since it request lots of authoring, I put it back in the "content" section
22:32:20 … other content technologies also have system requirements
22:32:30 Janina: I think we're on the same page
22:32:38 q+
22:33:28 JF: asking about architectural requirements
22:33:59 Judy: I am also wondering if we need to make further requirements for how to fit it into the general structure of HTML5
22:34:18 JF: I am wondering how it aligns with the general requirements of WCAG
22:35:04 … e.g. what happens if a video gets onto a Web page and none of the alternative technologies are provided?
22:35:18 q+
22:35:37 … should we be looking at how to react to that?
22:35:41 ack j
22:36:09 Judy: I think we can do that independently in a parallel activity
22:36:27 … could be part of the questions we want to ask in the straw poll
22:37:02 JF: ask whether we have missed something for each timeline
22:37:10 s/timeline/section/
22:37:32 Judy: we are trying to keep things on a schedule
22:37:58 … we have work to do on the technology side after the requirements
22:38:14 JF: so we're ready for a straw poll?
22:38:42 Judy: what questions are we going to ask in it?
22:38:52 .. do we ask per section if ppl agree?
22:39:32 JF: we should go through the list of alternative content technologies and ask for each if people agree
22:39:43 … we do work against the clock here
22:40:13 q+
22:41:01 … I really want feedback from each TF member that we haven't missed anything
22:41:14 Janina: I've already added it to tomorrow's agenda for the TF to approve this
22:41:30 .. I think we need it order section by section
22:42:44 Judy: maybe - did we capture everything, is it clearly expressed, is something missing, do you agree?
22:43:22 Janina: the reporting day to the HTML TF is tomorrow
22:43:44 ack judy
22:43:52 … my message will be that we believe we have most of it gathered, but we are still working on the details and the wording
22:44:07 .. I think it's open enough for people to look at it and give us feedback
22:44:50 … I will be presenting this to the HCG on 4th June, next Friday
22:44:57 … happy for people to join with me
22:45:06 … HCG=Hypertext Coordination Group
22:45:33 JF: I really want to get more feedback before opening this to the HTML WG
22:45:44 … the straw poll should do that
22:45:55 … we should have the straw poll this week
22:46:15 Janina: so, the question is what questions we should be asking
22:46:20 -> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/20080526_media-requirements/ Draft survey on review of media accessibility requirements
22:46:38 Michael: we have a draft of the survey ready for today
22:47:07 q+
22:47:18 … we've added all the requirements in
22:48:18 Judy: so this is a static snapshot of the wiki and asks for accept/comment
22:48:34 … what I am wondering if there is a general question whether we captured all
22:49:02 … the survey we have is a survey on a static snapshot, but the document will still change
22:49:41 … do we want consensus on the static snapshot or do we want to link to the document and get feedback on whether we missed anything
22:50:00 [judy: did we capture all; are they clear; are they in scope; do we agree]
22:50:02 JF: I'm trying to get people to speak up now from the bulk of the quiet participants on this
22:50:16 zakim, who's here?
22:50:16 On the phone I see Michael_Cooper, Janina_Sajka, John_Foliot, Silvia (muted), Judy, Sean_Hayes, MikeSmith (muted), frankolivier, allanj, Kenny_Johar.a
22:50:19 On IRC I see mkobayas, frankolivier, AllanJ, Sean, MikeSmith, JF, RRSAgent, Zakim, janina, Judy, MichaelC, silvia, trackbot
22:50:59 … rather thank asking them to go into the wiki and change it, I'd rather have it in the poll
22:51:28 Michael: it's better to ask for input on a static snapshot so everyone is providing feedback on the same text
22:52:09 Judy: as facilitator for this you can actually ask all people on the call for their comments
22:52:30 JF: I wonder about the larger task force of something like 40 people
22:52:34 s/people/people who haven't spoken up/
22:53:12 … their wider input would be good
22:53:39 JF: can we make this thing live tomorrow, Michael
22:54:51 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_Accessibility_Requirements
22:55:28 zakim, unmute me
22:55:28 Silvia should no longer be muted
22:55:49 zakim, mute me
22:55:49 Silvia should now be muted
22:56:14 Judy: if we can have it go live tomorrow with the changes that we still make today would be good
22:56:41 Michael: I will be very busy tomorrow with meetings, so would prefer today
22:56:54 zakim, unmute me
22:56:54 Silvia should no longer be muted
22:57:17 zakim, mute me
22:57:17 Silvia should now be muted
22:57:51 JF: if we don't put the survey life before the TF call, we could at least give everyone a heads-up on the TF call
22:58:44 JF: we should wait until Judy has her edits in and then Michael can publish it
22:58:47 q+
22:59:34 Janina: I'd like to touch back on structured navigation
22:59:40 ack j
22:59:48 ack Judy
22:59:49 ack Judy
23:00:06 zakim, unmute me
23:00:06 Silvia should no longer be muted
23:00:33 Janina: I'd like to capture one of the key things that Daisy does
23:00:52 … in the explanation we talk about forward, back, previous, next
23:01:11 … but also about more granular navigation at different levels of hierarchy
23:01:27 … similar to h1, h2, h3 in html
23:01:36 … where do we need to capture that on the controls?
23:01:53 .. I think we captured it in the content markup, but it is now not in the controls any more
23:02:19 q+
23:02:23 zakim, unmute me
23:02:23 Silvia was not muted, silvia
23:02:44 Kenny: I'd like to add to this how we did it in Daisy
23:02:47 zakim, mute me
23:02:47 Silvia should now be muted
23:03:12 … we had different keystrokes to change levels and to navigate between elements on the same level
23:03:42 … the Daisy players now have particular keys on them to navigate between these levels
23:04:25 … in a Windows environment, you'd just need a button to move down a level and shift on that button would move you up a level
23:04:46 JF: we just need to map that navigation to the player
23:06:29 … how about adding it to section 3.1 with the keyboard controls
23:07:15 Janina: I can see many ways to implement this, e.g. for the sighted people there could be access to the navigation structure by providing a overview of all the elements and allow to click through
23:07:26 … in the Web world, this isn't yet a common control
23:07:59 JF: maybe rename section 3.1 to not just adhere to keyboard controls
23:08:19 zakim, unmute me
23:08:19 Silvia should no longer be muted
23:08:51 q+
23:10:27 zakim, mute me
23:10:27 Silvia should now be muted
23:11:00 silvia: I wouldn't want to water down 3.1 by removing "keyboard" since it clearly states all needs to be navigable by keyboard
23:11:31 … the need for content navigation between different levels could either be added to 2.4 or add a new subsection into 3
23:12:07 Kenny: I think we can do it by extending section 2.4
23:12:21 Janina: I want to make sure people understand this very well
23:12:32 … I will try and add it where it makes sense
23:12:48 … I think it's important to state that there is a need for exposing the control
23:13:11 +1 to not removing keyboard
23:14:08 JF: maybe we can remove the word "keyboard" still from 3.1 and add the content navigation there
23:14:15 Jim: I don't want to see it gone, too
23:14:17 zakim, unmute me
23:14:17 Silvia should no longer be muted
23:15:31 zakim, mute me
23:15:31 Silvia should now be muted
23:15:55 silvia: I think we should add the content navigation need to section 2.4 and explain the need for the different hierarchical levels
23:16:13 .. and we should add to section 3.1 the need for keyboard accessibility to these different hierarchical levels
23:16:17 .. then we have both captured
23:16:48 JF: ok, we should get the requirements document done by tomorrow and as close as possible completed
23:16:58 … if we can do the gap analysis now would be good
23:17:15