13:47:03 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dap
13:47:03 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/05/26-dap-irc
13:47:05 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:47:05 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #dap
13:47:07 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be DAP
13:47:07 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see UW_DAP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 13 minutes
13:47:08 <trackbot> Meeting: Device APIs and Policy Working Group Teleconference
13:47:08 <trackbot> Date: 26 May 2010
13:47:13 <dom> Present+ Dzung_Tran
13:47:52 <dom> Regrets: Frederick_Hirsch, John_Morris
13:51:29 <arve> I have conflicting appointments
13:52:55 <dom> Regrets+ Arve_Bersvendsen
13:53:23 <marengo> marengo has joined #dap
13:57:14 <alissa> alissa has joined #dap
13:59:04 <Zakim> UW_DAP()10:00AM has now started
13:59:11 <Zakim> +jmorris
13:59:14 <enewland> enewland has joined #dap
13:59:48 <darobin> Chair: Robin_Berjon
13:59:53 <Zakim> +alissa
13:59:53 <darobin> Present+ Robin_Berjon
13:59:55 <dom> Present+ Dominique_Hazael-Massieux
14:00:03 <enewland> Present+ enewland
14:00:08 <alissa> Present+ Alissa_Cooper
14:00:14 <Zakim> +Dom
14:00:25 <Zakim> + +1.314.454.aaaa - is perhaps darobin?
14:00:33 <dom> s/enewland/Eric Newland/
14:00:34 <darobin> Zakim, aaaa is me
14:00:34 <Zakim> sorry, darobin, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaa'
14:00:41 <dom> Zakim, jmorris is really enewland
14:00:41 <Zakim> +enewland; got it
14:00:48 <darobin> Zakim, darobin is me
14:00:48 <Zakim> +darobin; got it
14:00:52 <dom> zakim, list attendees
14:00:52 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been alissa, Dom, +1.314.454.aaaa, enewland, darobin
14:00:53 <darobin> stupid bot
14:01:03 <LauraA> LauraA has joined #dap
14:01:08 <Claes> Claes has joined #dap
14:01:11 <arve> arve has joined #dap
14:01:11 <dom> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010May/0123.html
14:01:28 <LauraA> Present+ LauraA
14:01:38 <darobin> okay let's wait a little
14:01:50 <danielcoloma> danielcoloma has joined #dap
14:02:08 <richt> richt has joined #dap
14:02:35 <Zakim> +Claes
14:02:41 <Zakim> + +39.011.228.aabb
14:02:50 <marengo> Zakim, aabb is me
14:02:50 <Zakim> +marengo; got it
14:03:00 <Zakim> +richt
14:03:05 <marengo> Present+ Marco_Marengo
14:03:06 <Zakim> + +03468697aacc
14:03:08 <danielcoloma> Present +Daniel_Coloma
14:03:10 <Claes> Present+ Claes_Nilsson
14:03:12 <richt> Present+ Richard_Tibbett
14:03:16 <danielcoloma> Zakim, aacc is me
14:03:16 <Zakim> +danielcoloma; got it
14:03:27 <Zakim> +LauraA
14:03:29 <AnssiK> AnssiK has joined #dap
14:03:30 <dom> zakim, who's the phone?
14:03:30 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, dom.
14:03:35 <dom> zakim, who's on the phone?
14:03:35 <Zakim> On the phone I see enewland, alissa, Dom, darobin, Claes, marengo, richt, danielcoloma, LauraA
14:03:38 <darobin> danielcoloma, can you scribe? you're at the top of the list
14:03:48 <danielcoloma> sure
14:03:51 <darobin> Regrets+ Frederick
14:03:52 <darobin> thanks!
14:03:57 <darobin> Scribe: Daniel
14:03:58 <Zakim> +??P16
14:04:01 <maxf1> maxf1 has joined #dap
14:04:02 <darobin> ScribeNick: danielcoloma 
14:04:18 <AnssiK> zakim, P16 is me
14:04:20 <Zakim> sorry, AnssiK, I do not recognize a party named 'P16'
14:04:46 <AnssiK> Present+ Anssi_Kostiainen
14:04:56 <marengo> Zakim, mute me
14:04:56 <Zakim> marengo should now be muted
14:05:15 <dom> q+
14:05:21 <dom> ack me
14:05:27 <Zakim> + +04871719aadd
14:05:29 <danielcoloma> topic announcements
14:05:33 <wojciech> wojciech has joined #dap
14:05:41 <darobin> s/topic/Topic:/
14:05:42 <dom> -> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/43696/london2010/ Registration for DAP F2F in London, July 2010
14:05:45 <Zakim> +maxf
14:05:46 <danielcoloma> dom: registration for London meeting is open
14:06:00 <dom> -> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/43696/london2010/results Current registrants for F2F
14:06:12 <darobin> -> http://www.w3.org/2010/api-privacy-ws/
14:06:42 <danielcoloma> darobin: privacy workshop is scheduled for the same week as DAP F2F
14:07:16 <danielcoloma> Topic: Minutes Approval
14:07:18 <darobin> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010May/att-0093/minutes-2010-05-19.html
14:07:31 <darobin> RESOLUTION: minutes approved
14:07:36 <dom> s/.html/.html Minutes of 19 May 2010 call/
14:07:41 <danielcoloma> Topic: Policy Segment
14:07:49 <dom> s/<darobin> RESOLUTION:/<danielcoloma> RESOLUTION:/
14:08:10 <dom> ACTION-152?
14:08:11 <trackbot> ACTION-152 -- Laura Arribas to edit policy framework, reviewing BONDI material and editorial update -- due 2010-05-05 -- OPEN
14:08:11 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/152
14:08:31 <dom> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010May/0127.html Laura's report on progress on policy framework wrt trust domains
14:08:36 <danielcoloma> LauraA: Changes submitted to CVS this morning
14:08:49 <danielcoloma> LauraA: e-mail summarizes key changes done in the commit
14:08:52 <darobin> -> http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/policy/ the Policy document
14:09:33 <danielcoloma> LauraA: Trust domain control layer added, new dataflow 
14:09:46 <dom> -> http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/policy/dataflow.png Dataflow diagram
14:09:59 <danielcoloma> LauraA: One of the objectives was making it simpler, not sure if it is achieved yet
14:10:39 <danielcoloma> ... need help to split the document in different specs
14:11:41 <dom> zakim, aadd is probably Wojciech
14:11:41 <Zakim> +Wojciech?; got it
14:11:49 <dom> Present+ Wojciech_Maslowski
14:11:52 <danielcoloma> darobin: volunteers for contributing more to the work?
14:11:55 <wojciech> Present+ Wojciech_Masłowski
14:12:03 <wojciech> yes it's me
14:12:19 <danielcoloma> darobin: which kind of problems do you have when splitting the doc?
14:12:58 <danielcoloma> lauraA: agreed to have 3 docs (policy framework, profile and example documents) but not sure how to do the split
14:13:40 <danielcoloma> darobin: create 3 copies of the doc, add them to the CVS and remove the part that is not needed for every of them
14:13:54 <darobin> q?
14:15:14 <danielcoloma> darobin: Do you think the documents resulting of the split are small/indepent enough to be implemented in a granular manner?
14:15:29 <danielcoloma> LauraA: Yes, I think so
14:15:54 <AnssiK> editorial comment re policy framework doc: do not scale images, instead display them in their native size for better readability (see e.g. section 2.3)
14:16:19 <danielcoloma> darobin: status from a publication point view?
14:16:41 <danielcoloma> LauraA: The policy framework is the more mature one
14:18:18 <danielcoloma> darobin: could we have a FPWD Cfc next week?
14:18:32 <danielcoloma> LauraA: Yes, it is doable
14:18:58 <danielcoloma> Topic: APIs
14:19:34 <danielcoloma> darobin: discussion on the sysinfo attributes on the mailing list
14:19:47 <danielcoloma> ... target is reach an agreement today
14:20:28 <danielcoloma> darobin: MAC address and SSID, suggestion is remove both
14:20:34 <dom> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010May/0098.html Analysis of SysInfo Attributes
14:20:35 <dom> q+
14:20:36 <Dzung_Tran> +1
14:20:40 <maxf1> +1
14:20:51 <dom> q?
14:20:55 <dom> ack me
14:21:07 <tlr> zakim, call thomas-781
14:21:07 <Zakim> ok, tlr; the call is being made
14:21:08 <Zakim> +Thomas
14:21:46 <danielcoloma> dom: widget and open web are different use cases
14:24:15 <alissa> q+
14:24:16 <danielcoloma> darobin: we should think about the use case for exposing these attributes
14:24:22 <tlr> I like Robin's proposal.
14:24:28 <darobin> ack alissa 
14:25:06 <dom> (this could be something defined in the policy framework, that said)
14:25:26 <danielcoloma> ... accessing some properties may returned a denied permission error depending on whether an installed applciation or a web page is accessing them
14:25:46 <danielcoloma> s/returned/return/
14:25:56 <Dzung_Tran> At one point we talk about a different use cases document, Is there one?
14:26:21 <tlr> zakim, unmute me
14:26:21 <Zakim> sorry, tlr, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
14:26:24 <tlr> ack thomas
14:26:42 <danielcoloma> ... the other alternative is having an extended spec for these additional properties
14:27:06 <danielcoloma> tlr: supports the idea of having these properties in another spec
14:27:27 <alissa> +1 to having scary properties separate
14:28:13 <danielcoloma> dom: who is doing that analysis?
14:30:08 <Dzung_Tran> that analysis would be difficult, I would just remove obvious scary properties for release 1.0, revisit in release 2.0
14:30:51 <dom> (an editors note in the doc maybe?)
14:32:12 <danielcoloma> dom: We could include a note saying that these properties are not part of the spec because of privacy issues
14:32:22 <darobin> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: macAddress and SSID removed; Make a note that these have been removed but that the group is considering making them available in a more advanced document
14:32:32 <darobin> + because of privacy concerns
14:33:05 <darobin> + seeking comments, planning to revisit in future version => in SotDF
14:33:41 <darobin> RESOLUTION: macAddress and SSID removed; Make a note in SotD that these have been removed but that the group is seeking comments and considering making them available in a future version
14:33:59 <darobin> ACTION: maxf to implement the maxAddress/SSID resolution
14:34:00 <trackbot> Created ACTION-175 - Implement the maxAddress/SSID resolution [on Max Froumentin - due 2010-06-02].
14:34:31 <danielcoloma> darobin: suggestion to remove IP address
14:36:03 <tlr> ack
14:36:05 <darobin> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: remove ipAddress as well, put in same list as macAddress and SSID
14:36:20 <darobin> RESOLUTION: remove ipAddress as well, put in same list as macAddress and SSID
14:36:48 <danielcoloma> darobin: APN, operatorName, roaming, mcc and mnc have been also suggested for being removed
14:37:11 <danielcoloma> ... suggest to separate roaming from the other four, as there are strong use cases for it at least
14:37:24 <tlr> The "data connection is expensive" flag, right.
14:37:32 <maxf1> q+
14:37:33 <tlr> q+
14:38:08 <Zakim> +Suresh
14:38:32 <Suresh> Suresh has joined #dap
14:38:33 <danielcoloma> alissa: some of these attributes may be redundant
14:38:42 <Suresh> Present+ Suresh_Chitturi
14:39:01 <darobin> ack maxf1 
14:39:05 <darobin> ack maxf
14:39:39 <danielcoloma> maxf: Bryan was the main supporter for including these attributes, we may need to check with him
14:40:18 <danielcoloma> darobin: suggestion is removing them unless we have strong use cases for them
14:40:22 <darobin> ack tho
14:40:25 <darobin> ack tlr
14:41:05 <danielcoloma> tlr: it would be good to validate the decission on the mailing list
14:41:29 <darobin> ACTION: Robin to email Bryan to ask what his use cases are for apn, operatorName, mcc, mnc
14:41:29 <trackbot> Created ACTION-176 - Email Bryan to ask what his use cases are for apn, operatorName, mcc, mnc [on Robin Berjon - due 2010-06-02].
14:41:33 <danielcoloma> tlr: roaming is a way to abstract to the user he may be charged for data connections more expensively
14:42:19 <danielcoloma> darobin: the use case is the "expensive flag", but not sure how to specify it in a way that it is useful
14:42:32 <danielcoloma> s/that it/that/
14:43:38 <darobin> ACTION: Robin to ask the mailing about usage of roaming
14:43:38 <trackbot> Created ACTION-177 - Ask the mailing about usage of roaming [on Robin Berjon - due 2010-06-02].
14:44:06 <alissa> q+
14:44:15 <darobin> ack alissa 
14:47:17 <danielcoloma> darobin: suggestion is keeping the rest of elements (included in item 4) in the spec
14:47:22 <darobin> RESOLUTION: keep the fields: type, currentDownloadBandwidth, currentUploadBandwidth, maxDownloadBandwidth, maxUploadBandwidth, currentSignalStrength
14:47:36 <Suresh> q+
14:47:49 <darobin> ack Suresh 
14:48:56 <danielcoloma> Suresh: From a conformance point of view, could we group some of these properties
14:49:13 <danielcoloma> ... it should be possible to query if one property group is supported or not
14:49:52 <dom> q+ to note link with policy framework
14:50:00 <danielcoloma> darobin: this approach has not worked in DOM, SVG
14:50:50 <darobin> ack dom
14:50:50 <Zakim> dom, you wanted to note link with policy framework
14:52:13 <danielcoloma> Suresh: Key question is the sysinfo spec a all or none spec?
14:52:56 <danielcoloma> darobin: conformance is all or none, but for instance, if sensor does not return a value it would be acceptable
14:54:38 <dom> [I think making a concrete proposal would help in any case :) ]
14:54:58 <danielcoloma> darobin: if we want it to be modular, we should split the spec
14:55:15 <danielcoloma> ... handling it at the conformance level is very difficult
14:55:51 <maxf1> q+
14:55:52 <darobin> q?
14:55:59 <darobin> ack maxf
14:56:49 <danielcoloma> maxf: is there any conclusion on the issue of having multiple active connections?
14:56:58 <danielcoloma> darobin: no resolution so far
14:57:18 <alissa> q+
14:58:09 <darobin> ack alissa 
14:58:54 <Suresh> q+
14:59:10 <darobin> ack Suresh 
14:59:16 <danielcoloma> alissa: privacy discussions should be hold when we have reached a conclusion on the multiple connections issue
14:59:29 <danielcoloma> s/hold/held/
14:59:54 <darobin> -> http://www.w3.org/mid/D37CC1B151BD57489F4F89609F168FE805838211@XCH01DFW.rim.net Suresh's comments
15:03:07 <maxf1> what's an "MMS connection"?
15:03:13 <danielcoloma> Suresh: we need also to clarify the meaning of connections in this context
15:03:30 <darobin> [I wonder if we don't have to expose multiple just to make sure we can be interoperable...]
15:05:01 <danielcoloma> darobin: what are the downsides of having an array of multiple connections?
15:05:31 <danielcoloma> ... complexity, interoperability problems, any other?
15:07:29 <darobin> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: we only expose active connections and we expose all of them through activeConnections
15:07:41 <darobin> RESOLUTION: we only expose active connections and we expose all of them through activeConnections
15:08:10 <maxf1> ACTION maxf to make activeConnection multiple
15:08:11 <trackbot> Created ACTION-178 - Make activeConnection multiple [on Max Froumentin - due 2010-06-02].
15:08:18 <danielcoloma> Topic: General API Review
15:09:53 <danielcoloma> darobin: in general, the progress of the APIs has been slowed down
15:10:03 <danielcoloma> ... which are the reasons for that?
15:10:35 <dom> (tracker is supposed to be used for that; not that I mind using the wiki for it)
15:10:41 <danielcoloma> richt: pending resolutions on some issues may be a reason
15:12:03 <Dzung_Tran> I think the main reason got to do with privacy
15:12:08 <danielcoloma> tlr: we already have the tracker
15:12:46 <danielcoloma> darobin: kind of wiki in which we list the key issues for every API may help
15:13:10 <darobin> ACTION: Robin to get the ball rolling on documenting path forward for specs
15:13:10 <trackbot> Created ACTION-179 - Get the ball rolling on documenting path forward for specs [on Robin Berjon - due 2010-06-02].
15:13:43 <maxf1> q+ to introduce wojciech
15:13:52 <maxf1> ah
15:14:05 <danielcoloma> tlr: concerns on the community about the capture API
15:14:22 <danielcoloma> darobin: still waiting for input from mozilla
15:14:23 <wojciech> yes
15:15:18 <danielcoloma> tlr: some concerns may be due to confusion
15:15:42 <danielcoloma> ... suggestion is putting on the list a clarification on the scope of the capture API
15:16:19 <Zakim> -richt
15:16:34 <richt> sorry I dropped from the call.
15:16:35 <richt> I will document progress on the wiki for Contacts and Calendar
15:16:39 <darobin> ACTION: Robin to ping the editors about explaining the design of Capture on the list
15:16:39 <trackbot> Created ACTION-180 - Ping the editors about explaining the design of Capture on the list [on Robin Berjon - due 2010-06-02].
15:17:00 <darobin> ack maxf1 
15:17:41 <danielcoloma> maxf: last call in this WG, passing the editorshp on sysinfo the Dzung_Tran
15:17:55 <dom> ack wojciech
15:18:01 <danielcoloma> ... new Opera employee on this group, wojciech
15:18:03 <dom> q- maxf
15:18:31 <Dzung_Tran> Max, wish you well
15:18:37 <maxf1> thanks :)
15:18:52 <dom> welcome wojciech!
15:19:18 <Zakim> -LauraA
15:19:19 <Zakim> -Anssik
15:19:21 <Zakim> -Claes
15:19:22 <Zakim> -darobin
15:19:22 <Zakim> -Suresh
15:19:23 <Zakim> -enewland
15:19:24 <Zakim> -danielcoloma
15:19:25 <Zakim> -Dom
15:19:27 <Zakim> -Thomas
15:19:31 <Zakim> -maxf
15:19:32 <darobin> RRSAgent: make minutes
15:19:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/26-dap-minutes.html darobin
15:19:32 <Zakim> -alissa
15:19:35 <Zakim> -marengo
15:19:39 <Zakim> -Wojciech?
15:19:41 <Zakim> UW_DAP()10:00AM has ended
15:19:42 <Zakim> Attendees were alissa, Dom, +1.314.454.aaaa, enewland, darobin, Claes, +39.011.228.aabb, marengo, richt, +03468697aacc, danielcoloma, LauraA, Anssik, +04871719aadd, maxf,
15:19:45 <Zakim> ... Wojciech?, Thomas, Suresh
15:24:14 <darobin> yup yup
15:26:16 <darobin> no worries, kinda part of the job :)
15:26:42 <darobin> except I'm not quite as, erm, dedicated when it comes to removing all the crud around the generated minutes as Frederick is :)