19:00:33 RRSAgent has joined #aria 19:00:33 logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/05/25-aria-irc 19:00:42 zakim, this will be aria 19:00:45 ok, janina; I see WAI_PFWG(Aria)3:00PM scheduled to start now 19:00:48 WAI_PFWG(Aria)3:00PM has now started 19:00:53 zakim, call janina 19:00:53 +Rich 19:00:53 ok, janina; the call is being made 19:00:55 +Janina 19:01:02 I am on folks 19:01:19 not hearing anything 19:01:37 ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz 19:01:43 :-) 19:01:59 -Janina 19:02:07 +[IPcaller] 19:02:31 zakim, IPcaller is Stevef 19:02:31 +Stevef; got it 19:02:40 MichaelC has joined #aria 19:02:41 +Janina_Sajka 19:03:03 zakim, who's on the phone? 19:03:03 On the phone I see Rich, Stevef, Janina_Sajka 19:03:26 +Michael_Cooper 19:03:48 +[Microsoft] 19:03:58 cyns has joined #aria 19:04:34 http://cid-8d111c666c91bb15.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/Public 19:05:25 scribe: janina 19:05:43 We're looking at Cynthia's documents ... 19:06:34 cyns: focus on commands and memory 19:08:15 cyns: this area of the html5 spec seems stable. not changed much in a year 19:09:13 cyns: seems 'command' is 'menuitem' 19:09:37 now looking at second table ... 19:11:48 rich: within a toolbar? 19:11:52 cyns: within a menu tag 19:12:04 rich: separators between them? how rendered 19:12:19 rich: we currently don't support groups within menus, but ... 19:13:03 cyns: we should do something with this 19:13:24 rich: our recent discussion re groups with a toolbar would be similar 19:13:35 cyns: aria toolbars are nestable? 19:13:37 rich: no 19:13:55 rich: too many people complained about grouping within toolbar 19:15:05 cyns: html5 also supports nested menus 19:15:14 rich: how does one nav? 19:15:17 cyns: like file 19:15:48 rich: so like 'haspopup' 19:17:19 cyns: i'll look at haspopup 19:18:10 cyns: seems like having elements whose role changes based on context is different from anything we've had before, need to check with ie team on that 19:18:22 cyns: not bad, just new 19:18:42 rich: i looked at new control, see lots for browsers to do 19:19:04 cyns: also labels and legends ... 19:21:20 cyns: html doesn't have href as command -- see button and link as interchangeable 19:22:23 cyns: my questions 19:22:37 cyns: why inputimage not there, input button, link, why not there 19:22:40 rich: yes 19:24:19 cyns: not sure why we need states, attributes plus facets? 19:24:22 rich: why? 19:24:28 cyns: i don't understand it 19:24:53 cyns: seems facet is more or less attribute, and state is attribute value, but not clear mapping 19:28:13 cyns: all of this re-raises whether we map to aria and rely on aria to map OS a11y apis, or 19:28:29 cyns: whether we map directly to a11y apis. Seems sometimes results might be different 19:28:52 rich: seems we should start funneling questions to html-wg now, not wait 19:30:14 cyns: the more i look at facets, the more i think we may need direct mappings to a11y apis 19:30:36 cyns: ex: icon for a menu item 19:30:44 rich: we need that? 19:30:49 cyns: it's in the spec 19:30:55 rich: not just the text for that icon? 19:31:24 cyns: think it may be easier to map to uia than to aria 19:31:32 rich: but wouldn't fit all platforms 19:32:52 cyns: suggest we advise direct mappings from browsers, where appropriate 19:33:06 rich: agree, but 19:33:28 rich: ex: meter has associated values that may not map 19:34:27 rich: we can pass off additional properties 19:34:44 cyns: browsers should do best fit mapping 19:34:53 rich: will always be something additional not covered 19:36:10 command is the abstraction behind menu items, buttons, and links. 19:36:56 http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/commands.html#concept-facet 19:37:09 http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/interactive-elements.html#the-command 19:37:48 rich: how do these go into the spec? how integrated 19:38:03 steve: try to fit into current structure 19:38:30 steve: what's currently there is for conformance, not a detail implementation mapping for each element 19:41:15 rich: ie may use a very different drawing agent from another browser 19:41:37 cyns: which is why we can't talk about the mappings, just describe 19:42:36 rich: don't mind what the browser does, as long as it does its job and we have sufficient a11y data 19:42:50 cyns: yes, ml launches dialog 19:43:34 steve: is it possible for us separate out two tasks here? 19:43:47 steve: mappings is more work than the basic conformance decisions 19:44:00 cyns: seems easier to me, most is already implemented except for new elements 19:46:42 general discussion of what our task actually is 19:53:11 cyns: how to map element to api is what will be most useful to browser devs; it's also what ian has been saying 19:53:42 cyns: also, none of these should be overwritten. 19:53:52 rich: ordered list, yes; input element, no 19:55:38 cyns: command element defs differ between w3 and what specs ...\ 20:04:01 http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/commands.html 20:04:59 -[Microsoft] 20:06:10 -Michael_Cooper 20:06:12 -Rich 20:06:12 -Stevef 20:06:14 -Janina_Sajka 20:06:14 WAI_PFWG(Aria)3:00PM has ended 20:06:15 Attendees were Rich, Janina, Stevef, Janina_Sajka, Michael_Cooper, [Microsoft] 20:06:21 zakim, bye 20:06:21 Zakim has left #aria 20:06:29 rrsagent make minutes 20:54:46 rrsagent, make minutes 20:54:46 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/25-aria-minutes.html MichaelC 20:55:34 rrsagent, make log world 20:55:36 rrsagent, make minutes 20:55:36 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/25-aria-minutes.html MichaelC 20:56:12 meeting: ARIA mapping - HTML A11Y TF 20:56:33 chair: Steve 20:56:36 rrsagent, make minutes 20:56:36 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/25-aria-minutes.html MichaelC 21:05:24 rrsagent, bye 21:05:24 I see no action items