14:56:49 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
14:56:49 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/05/20-html-a11y-irc
14:56:51 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:56:51 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #html-a11y
14:56:53 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2119
14:56:53 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
14:56:54 <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:56:54 <trackbot> Date: 20 May 2010
14:57:07 <MichaelC> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010May/0148.html
14:57:11 <MichaelC> chair: Mike_Smith
14:57:15 <janina> zakim, call janina
14:57:15 <Zakim> ok, janina; the call is being made
14:57:16 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM has now started
14:57:17 <Zakim> +Janina
14:57:39 <Zakim> +John_Foliot
14:57:42 <MichaelC> regrets: Laura_Carlson, Denis_Boudreau, Steven_Faulkner, Marco_Ranon
14:57:52 <Zakim> -John_Foliot
14:57:54 <Zakim> +Gregory_Rosmaita
14:57:57 <Zakim> -Janina
14:58:03 <janina> zakim, call janina
14:58:03 <Zakim> ok, janina; the call is being made
14:58:05 <Zakim> -Gregory_Rosmaita
14:58:05 <Zakim> +Gregory_Rosmaita
14:58:05 <Zakim> +Janina
14:58:09 <Zakim> +John_Foliot
14:58:27 <Zakim> +Michael_Cooper
14:59:01 <Ben> Ben has joined #html-a11y
14:59:01 <Zakim> -Janina
14:59:06 <janina> zakim, drop janina
14:59:06 <Zakim> sorry, janina, I do not see a party named 'janina'
14:59:18 <janina> zakim, call janina
14:59:19 <Zakim> ok, janina; the call is being made
14:59:19 <Zakim> +Janina
15:00:13 <kliehm> kliehm has joined #html-a11y
15:00:17 <Zakim> -Janina
15:00:18 <Zakim> +Janina_Sajka
15:00:46 <Zakim> +allanj
15:01:40 <Zakim> +Ben
15:03:02 <Zakim> + +49.179.103.aaaa
15:03:22 <Zakim> +dsinger
15:04:11 <dsinger_> dsinger_ has joined #html-a11y
15:04:25 <dsinger_> zakim, mute dsinger
15:04:35 <Zakim> dsinger should now be muted
15:04:50 <janina> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:05:01 <Zakim> On the phone I see Gregory_Rosmaita, John_Foliot, Michael_Cooper, Janina_Sajka, allanj, Ben, kliehm (muted), dsinger (muted)
15:06:24 <oedipus> Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List 
15:07:59 <kliehm> scribe: Martin_Kliehm
15:08:10 <kliehm> scribenick: kliehm
15:08:18 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:08:45 <MichaelC> -> http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/users/my "My Tracker"
15:08:47 <cyns> cyns has joined #html-a11y
15:08:56 <janina> janina has left #html-a11y
15:08:57 <oedipus> open questionnaire: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/20080513_bugs/
15:09:26 <kliehm> ACTION-44?
15:09:26 <trackbot> ACTION-44 -- Cynthia Shelly to - monitor status of @alt in HTML5 spec; when SteveF's Alt Guidance is published, ensure that what is in SteveF's note supersedes or corrects HTML5 verbiage; propose changes to HTML5 based on SteveF's alt doc -- due 2010-05-20 -- OPEN
15:09:26 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/44
15:09:32 <cyns> can someone repeat the tracker link?  I logged in right after
15:10:05 <MichaelC> zakim, IPcaller is Cynthia_Shelly
15:10:05 <Zakim> +Cynthia_Shelly; got it
15:10:08 <kliehm> Cynthia: unclear about the scope of action
15:10:09 <jsajka> jsajka has joined #html-a11y
15:10:21 <jsajka> zakim, jsajka is Janina_Sajka
15:10:21 <Zakim> sorry, jsajka, I do not recognize a party named 'jsajka'
15:10:33 <jsajka> zakim, who is here?
15:10:33 <Zakim> On the phone I see Gregory_Rosmaita, John_Foliot, Michael_Cooper, Janina_Sajka, allanj, Ben, kliehm (muted), dsinger (muted), Cynthia_Shelly
15:10:36 <Zakim> On IRC I see jsajka, cyns, dsinger_, kliehm, Ben, Zakim, RRSAgent, JF, oedipus, MikeSmith, MichaelC, davidb, dsinger, frankolivier, AllanJ, trackbot
15:10:56 <jsajka> zakim, jsajka is janina
15:10:56 <Zakim> sorry, jsajka, I do not recognize a party named 'jsajka'
15:12:30 <kliehm> Mike: a heartbeat draft publication is imminent
15:12:30 <MikeSmith> Zakiem, call MIke
15:12:47 <oedipus> cfc for heartbeat publication (Sam Ruby) http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010May/0297.html
15:12:51 <MichaelC> action-44 due 27 May
15:12:51 <trackbot> ACTION-44 - monitor status of @alt in HTML5 spec; when SteveF's Alt Guidance is published, ensure that what is in SteveF's note supersedes or corrects HTML5 verbiage; propose changes to HTML5 based on SteveF's alt doc due date now 27 May
15:12:55 <MikeSmith> Zakim, call MIke
15:12:55 <Zakim> ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
15:12:57 <Zakim> +MIke
15:13:46 <MikeSmith> RRSAgent, make minutes
15:13:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/20-html-a11y-minutes.html MikeSmith
15:14:10 <kliehm> TOPIC: Subteam reports
15:14:50 <jsajka> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_Accessibility_Requirements
15:14:55 <dsinger_> dsinger_ has joined #html-a11y
15:15:10 <kliehm> John Foliot: Regular call was yesterday. We've been doing a review of usecase requirements. It's a lengthy document, we moved it to the TF wiki.
15:15:31 <oedipus> minutes media subgroup meeting 2010-05-19: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010May/0143.html
15:15:55 <kliehm> John: We still need people reviewing the document. We need a more structured requirements document. Sylvia Pfeiffer has been going through it, work is ongoing.
15:16:17 <oedipus> -> http://www.w3.org/2010/05/19-html-a11y-minutes.html Media Subgroup Minutes 2010-05-19
15:17:12 <kliehm> John: We are still looking for feedback from the community, i.e. a deafblind user. If anybody on the TF knows anybody who would benefit from captions please ask them for feedback.
15:17:32 <eric_carlson> eric_carlson has joined #html-a11y
15:17:40 <Zakim> +Eric_Carlson
15:18:25 <MikeSmith> q?
15:18:47 <oedipus> http://news.softpedia.com/news/Google-to-Launch-WebM-Project-Along-with-Open-Source-VP8-Codec-142474.shtml
15:18:51 <MikeSmith> http://www.webmproject.org/code/specs/container/
15:19:08 <kliehm> John: Google announced VP8 release as open source yesterday. WebM has very strict requirements, so it was unclear whether it would be able to support captions. WebM site confirmed that it is possible, they will follow our recommendations.
15:19:27 <MikeSmith> "Initial WebM release does not support subtitles... WHATWG / W3C RFC will release guidance on subtitles and other overlays in HTML5 <video> in the near future. WebM intends to follow that guidance."
15:19:38 <kliehm> Janina congratulates on the progress.
15:20:43 <JF> http://www.webmproject.org/
15:20:48 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/html/wiki/Canvas
15:21:17 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Canvas/Meetings
15:21:19 <MikeSmith> q+ to mention that we need to get feedback from James Craig
15:21:21 <dsinger_> What is the Apple question?
15:22:37 <dsinger_> Ok I will find and chase
15:22:40 <MikeSmith> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010May/0096.html
15:22:41 <kliehm> Janina: I talked with Rich Schwerdfeger today, there will be a call this week. They are still waiting for feedback from Apple. If Macej could help it would be appreciated.
15:22:45 <dsinger_> Thx, plz
15:22:48 <oedipus> "Maciej, will these 2D Context API changes work for Apple? I tried to make  sure that the API changes would support selection tracking on Macs. If you  could respond I would appreciate it. I sent the first draft of this to  Apple on April 11 and received no feedback. Since then the changes have  been editorial. I am doing my best to not have accessibility be a barrier  to HTML 5 getting through last call."
15:22:48 <MikeSmith> ack MikeSmith 
15:22:48 <Zakim> MikeSmith, you wanted to mention that we need to get feedback from James Craig
15:23:37 <kliehm> Mike: I talked to Macej, we need to hear from James Craig who is back from vacations. Somebody please ping James regarding that message.
15:23:50 <eric_carlson> I will ping James
15:23:55 <dsinger_> We will (Eric and I)
15:24:18 <kliehm> Janina: We need feedback from Apple by Monday, May 24.
15:25:30 <kliehm> Janina: ARIA, there are action items out, one of them was partially delivered on Tuesday, though many people are travelling this week, thus there was no subgroup telcon.
15:26:01 <kliehm> TOPIC: Review of open bugs
15:26:03 <oedipus> q+ to ask about restoring accessibility features to HTML5 pending improvements or replacements
15:26:14 <oedipus> q?
15:26:20 <oedipus> Opening Thoughts on WAI-ARIA in HTML5: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007Jul/0903.html (Al Gilman, July 2007)
15:26:21 <MikeSmith> action-26?
15:26:21 <trackbot> ACTION-26 -- Michael Cooper to review bugs for display, focus, labels, and semantics to 1) find originator, 2) propose disposition (work on, leave as is, push back on current status), 3) assign work items to people (possible originators) -- due 2010-04-14 -- PENDINGREVIEW
15:26:21 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/26
15:26:25 <oedipus> "Maintain equivalent or improved accessibility features of HTML 4.01" - has bug been filed?
15:26:34 <MikeSmith> ack oedipus 
15:26:34 <Zakim> oedipus, you wanted to ask about restoring accessibility features to HTML5 pending improvements or replacements
15:27:32 <kliehm> Gregory: We discussed last week to file a bug about maintaining accessibility, see action-26.
15:27:34 <JF> +1 to that greg
15:28:24 <kliehm> s/see action-26/see above/
15:28:48 <MichaelC> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010May/att-0030/display_focus_label_semantic.html Michael's bug disposition proposals
15:28:49 <oedipus> MikeSmith: discussion at http://www.w3.org/2010/05/13-html-a11y-minutes.html#item03
15:29:00 <MichaelC> -> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/20080513_bugs/ Survey on some bug dispositions
15:29:03 <kliehm> Michael: I want to introduce a discussion about basic requirements before going into details.
15:30:06 <oedipus> -> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/20080513_bugs/results Results of survey on some bug dispositions
15:30:23 <kliehm> Michael: While the spec is precise about UA parsing it is vague about user interface expectations for an element.
15:30:44 <oedipus> GJR notes that this is a topic (UI behavior) that was mentioned several times in HTML WG objection surveys
15:32:33 <kliehm> Michael: I think UI behavior should be defined to ensure accessibility. However, implementors have an interest to keep this open. We should at least mention some best practices.
15:32:43 <oedipus> -> http://www.w3.org/TR/IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20/ Implementing UAAG 2.0
15:33:21 <oedipus> -> http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-UAAG20-requirements-20071031/ UAAG 2.0 Requirements Document
15:33:43 <MikeSmith> q?
15:33:44 <jsajka> q?
15:34:07 <oedipus> -> http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2010/ED-UAAG20-20100430/ latest editor's draft of UAAG 2.0  (2010-04-30)
15:34:39 <kliehm> Michael: We should push that some of the requirements are integrated into the HTML spec. Are there concerns that rquirements are specified in external documents?
15:34:51 <oedipus> GJR notes that XHTML Access Module and proposed successor reference UAAG 1.0 by checkpoint in definition of access element
15:35:39 <kliehm> Janina: We wanted to maintain consistence and reduce redundance, in a recent meeting we agreed to cite WAI documents in order to achieve this.
15:35:40 <oedipus> if i had more time, i'd attend meetings
15:36:48 <oedipus> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2010May/0020.html cover letter: The Access Element: Enabling Generic Document Accessibility [PFWG Proposed Internal Draft, 2010-05-19]
15:36:52 <oedipus> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2010May/att-0020/access-element-20100519.html The Access Element: Enabling Generic Document Accessibility [PFWG Proposed Internal Draft, 2010-05-19]
15:37:27 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Access/element_versus_module
15:37:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/20-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
15:38:43 <kliehm> Jim, Michael: The UA WG doesn't have the resources with sufficient technical implementors background.
15:39:03 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Access/access_key_requirements
15:39:53 <JF> +q
15:39:54 <AllanJ> q+
15:40:00 <MikeSmith> q?
15:40:29 <eric_carlson> Can someone please repeat exactly what the question/proposal is?
15:40:49 <kliehm> Janina, Michael: The question is whether we agree to extend our mandate to the UA WG. We should send the question to the list.
15:40:51 <oedipus> how to get more engineers' attention and time on UI interaction/interface
15:42:41 <kliehm> Eric: We would be more comfortable with the requirements in a separate document outside of the HTML5 spec.
15:42:57 <MikeSmith> ack JF 
15:42:57 <kliehm> Janina: That was also the guidance of the WAI AdHoc meeting.
15:43:07 <oedipus> sub-group of TF - UA interaction/interfaces - joint sub-group with UAAG WG members?
15:43:09 <Zakim> -dsinger
15:43:19 <kliehm> John: We've gone down that road with another document.
15:43:26 <Zakim> +dsinger
15:43:34 <oedipus> ack allanj
15:43:41 <MikeSmith> ack AllanJ 
15:44:04 <dsinger_> dsinger_ has joined #html-a11y
15:44:16 <kliehm> Jim: We have a UA meeting in an hour. I can bring it up. We can have people formally do stuff or set up a structure to cross-post on both lists and thus get more people involved.
15:44:23 <dsinger_> zakim, mute dsinger
15:44:23 <Zakim> dsinger should now be muted
15:44:58 <dsinger__> dsinger__ has joined #html-a11y
15:45:30 <oedipus> proposed: the HTML A11y TF will ask UAAG WG to review UI interaction/interface issues in HTML5 and jointly work with TF to develop appropriate content in an appropriate document
15:45:34 <MikeSmith> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: The TF believes that there are a number of bugs that are likely to be best resolved by adding text to existing or future UAWG deliverables rather than in the HTML5 spec itself.
15:46:11 <dsinger__> dsinger__ has joined #html-a11y
15:46:32 <dsinger__> zakim, mute dsinger
15:46:32 <Zakim> dsinger was already muted, dsinger__
15:46:37 <oedipus> didn't want to tie down at this point to a single document
15:47:55 <cyns> +1 oedipus
15:48:17 <MikeSmith> RESOLUTION: The HTML A11y TF will ask UAAG WG to review UI interaction/interface issues in HTML5 and jointly work with TF to develop appropriate content in an appropriate document.
15:48:33 <oedipus> plus 1
15:49:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/20-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
15:49:30 <cyns> OT: is there an html call today?  I couldn't find the agenda.
15:50:01 <kliehm> Michael: There are a number of bugs which I think could be moved to an external spec.
15:50:41 <AllanJ> yes in irc
15:51:13 <oedipus> i/RESOLUTION: The HTML A11y TF will ask/scribe: MikeSmith
15:51:16 <oedipus> i/plus 1/scribe: kliehm
15:51:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/20-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
15:52:02 <MichaelC> I propose moving the following bugs to be addressed in an external UA resource: 8647, 8648, 8666, 8682, 8743, 8751
15:52:16 <MikeSmith> http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/html-wg/20100520#l-103
15:52:24 <MikeSmith> q?
15:52:56 <kliehm> Bug 8647: Define tab order for IFrame
15:53:15 <kliehm> Bug 8648: Title attribute on the IFrame element
15:53:18 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/wai/pf/wiki/IFRAME
15:54:05 <kliehm> Other bugs: Keyboard accessible date pickers, Tab and reading order for context menus, Auditory icons clashing with AT, User should have ability to override automatic scrolling
15:54:48 <kliehm> bug 8752: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8752 gez.lemon@gmail.com, P2, RESOLVED NEEDSINFO, Allow user to manage focus changes
15:56:03 <kliehm> Michael: proposes to close the bug and comment that we withdraw objections.
15:56:10 <MikeSmith> q?
15:57:11 <kliehm> Mike, Michael: Gez filed a large number of bugs on behalf of PF, thus he is listed as the reporter.
15:57:21 <kliehm> bug-8622?
15:58:10 <oedipus> http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/commands.html#command-facet-action
15:58:22 <JF> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8622
15:58:31 <kliehm> s/bug-8622?//
15:58:39 <oedipus> compare to http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-access/#sec_3.1.1.
15:58:54 <oedipus> "User agents MUST provide mechanisms for overriding the author setting with user-specified settings in order to ensure that the act of moving content focus does not cause the user agent to take any further action (as per Checkpoint 9.5 of UAAG 1.0)"
15:59:06 <kliehm> Michael: Proposes Jim as owner of bug 8622.
16:00:23 <JF> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8754
16:00:33 <MikeSmith> q?
16:00:42 <kliehm> Michael: Bug regarding overflow content not being read by AT. Bug is marked "wontfix," I think this needs more investigation, proposes Gez Lemon.
16:01:04 <Zakim> -dsinger
16:01:27 <MikeSmith> see http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/the-xhtml-syntax.html#margins-and-padding
16:03:52 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/20080513_bugs/
16:03:56 <kliehm> Michael: The spec might need more refinement on the effect of overflow:hidden on assistive technologies. CSS WG might also be included. I will set up a survey on these bugs.
16:05:02 <Zakim> -Cynthia_Shelly
16:05:18 <Zakim> -John_Foliot
16:05:20 <Ben> Ben has left #html-a11y
16:05:21 <Zakim> -Ben
16:05:22 <Zakim> -Eric_Carlson
16:05:23 <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
16:05:24 <Zakim> -Gregory_Rosmaita
16:05:24 <Zakim> -Janina_Sajka
16:05:24 <MikeSmith> we are adjourned
16:05:26 <Zakim> -allanj
16:05:30 <MikeSmith> Zakim, drop Mike
16:05:30 <Zakim> MIke is being disconnected
16:05:32 <Zakim> -MIke
16:05:45 <kliehm> zakim, make minutes
16:05:45 <Zakim> I don't understand 'make minutes', kliehm
16:05:58 <kliehm> zakim, create minutes
16:05:58 <Zakim> I don't understand 'create minutes', kliehm
16:05:59 <jsajka> jsajka has left #html-a11y
16:06:13 <kliehm> rrsagent, make minutes
16:06:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/20-html-a11y-minutes.html kliehm
16:06:34 <kliehm> rssagent, stop log
16:07:28 <kliehm> rssagent, start log
16:07:58 <kliehm> zakim, please part
16:07:58 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were Janina, John_Foliot, Gregory_Rosmaita, Michael_Cooper, Janina_Sajka, allanj, Ben, +49.179.103.aaaa, kliehm, dsinger, Cynthia_Shelly,
16:07:58 <Zakim> Zakim has left #html-a11y
16:08:02 <Zakim> ... MIke, Eric_Carlson
16:08:46 <kliehm> rrsagent, make minutes
16:08:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/20-html-a11y-minutes.html kliehm
16:09:35 <kliehm> rrsagent, please part
16:09:35 <RRSAgent> I see no action items