13:35:09 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dap
13:35:09 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/05/19-dap-irc
13:35:11 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:35:11 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #dap
13:35:13 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be DAP
13:35:13 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see UW_DAP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 25 minutes
13:35:14 <trackbot> Meeting: Device APIs and Policy Working Group Teleconference
13:35:14 <trackbot> Date: 19 May 2010
13:36:11 <fjh2> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010May/0084.html
13:37:05 <fjh2> Chair: Robin_Berjon, Frederick_Hirsch
13:37:17 <fjh2> Present+ Robin_Berjon, Frederick_Hirsch
13:38:53 <fjh2> Regrets+ Erica_Newland, Laura_Arribas
13:54:59 <darobin> darobin has joined #dap
13:57:51 <alissa> alissa has joined #dap
13:58:19 <soonho> soonho has joined #dap
13:58:41 <soonho> Present+ Soonho_Lee
13:58:45 <Claes> Claes has joined #dap
13:58:48 <Zakim> UW_DAP()10:00AM has now started
13:58:54 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
13:59:03 <fjh> zakim, [IPcaller] is me
13:59:04 <Zakim> +fjh; got it
13:59:34 <Zakim> + +0472369aaaa
13:59:55 <Zakim> +alissa
14:00:10 <alissa> Present+ Alissa_Cooper
14:00:23 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
14:00:23 <Zakim> On the phone I see fjh, +0472369aaaa, alissa
14:00:24 <Zakim> On IRC I see Claes, soonho, alissa, darobin, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, Marcos, arve, maxf, ingmar, ilkka, lgombos, dom, trackbot
14:00:33 <maxf> zakim, aaaa is me
14:00:33 <Zakim> +maxf; got it
14:01:08 <maxf> Present+ Max_Froumentin
14:01:14 <Zakim> +Dom
14:01:15 <dom> Present+ Dominique_Hazael-Massieux
14:01:27 <Suresh> Suresh has joined #dap
14:01:38 <Suresh> Present+ Suresh_Chitturi
14:02:02 <Zakim> +ilkka
14:02:20 <ilkka> Present+ Ilkka_Oksanen
14:02:33 <Zakim> + +04610801aabb
14:02:36 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
14:02:36 <Zakim> On the phone I see fjh, maxf, alissa, Dom, ilkka, +04610801aabb
14:02:37 <Zakim> On IRC I see Suresh, Claes, soonho, alissa, darobin, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, Marcos, arve, maxf, ingmar, ilkka, lgombos, dom, trackbot
14:02:41 <Zakim> + +03491337aacc
14:02:49 <maoteo> maoteo has joined #dap
14:02:56 <Zakim> + +1.972.373.aadd
14:03:08 <Claes> +04610801aabb is Claes
14:03:30 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
14:03:30 <Zakim> On the phone I see fjh, maxf, alissa, Dom, ilkka, +04610801aabb, +03491337aacc, +1.972.373.aadd
14:03:32 <Zakim> On IRC I see maoteo, Suresh, Claes, soonho, alissa, darobin, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, Marcos, arve, maxf, ingmar, ilkka, lgombos, dom, trackbot
14:03:40 <maoteo> Present+ Maria_Oteo
14:03:43 <Suresh> aadd is Suresh
14:03:54 <fjh> zakim, aadd is Suresh
14:03:54 <Zakim> +Suresh; got it
14:04:01 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
14:04:01 <Zakim> On the phone I see fjh, maxf, alissa, Dom, ilkka, +04610801aabb, +03491337aacc, Suresh
14:04:04 <Zakim> On IRC I see maoteo, Suresh, Claes, soonho, alissa, darobin, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, Marcos, arve, maxf, ingmar, ilkka, lgombos, dom, trackbot
14:04:23 <Zakim> + +1.314.454.aaee
14:04:23 <dom> Zakim, aabb is Claes
14:04:25 <Zakim> +Claes; got it
14:04:31 <richt> richt has joined #dap
14:04:34 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
14:04:34 <Zakim> On the phone I see fjh, maxf, alissa, Dom, ilkka, Claes, +03491337aacc, Suresh, +1.314.454.aaee
14:04:36 <Zakim> On IRC I see richt, maoteo, Suresh, Claes, soonho, alissa, darobin, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, Marcos, arve, maxf, ingmar, ilkka, lgombos, dom, trackbot
14:04:43 <Zakim> + +0757091aaff
14:04:50 <Claes> Present+ Claes_Nilsson
14:05:10 <darobin> Present+ Robin_Berjon
14:05:15 <richt> Zakim, +0757091aaff is richt
14:05:15 <Zakim> +richt; got it
14:05:27 <richt> Present+ Richard_Tibbett
14:05:29 <darobin> Zakim, aaee is probably me
14:05:29 <Zakim> +darobin?; got it
14:05:33 <Zakim> + +47.23.69.aagg
14:05:39 <arve> zakim, aagg is me
14:05:39 <Zakim> +arve; got it
14:05:51 <dom> Zakim, aacc is Maria
14:05:51 <Zakim> +Maria; got it
14:05:58 <dom> Present+ Maria Angeles Oteo
14:06:27 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
14:06:27 <Zakim> On the phone I see fjh, maxf, alissa, Dom, ilkka, Claes, Maria, Suresh, darobin?, richt, arve
14:06:29 <Zakim> On IRC I see richt, maoteo, Suresh, Claes, soonho, alissa, darobin, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, Marcos, arve, maxf, ingmar, ilkka, lgombos, dom, trackbot
14:07:00 <arve> scribenick arve
14:07:08 <fjh> scribenick: arve
14:07:17 <fjh> Topic: Administrative
14:07:46 <fjh> Topic: Minutes approval
14:07:53 <fjh> 12 May 2010
14:08:00 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010May/att-0054/minutes-2010-05-12.html
14:08:10 <arve> RESOLUTION: 12 may 2010 minutes approved
14:08:17 <fjh> Topic: Policy requirements
14:08:22 <Dzung_Tran> Dzung_Tran has joined #dap
14:08:27 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010May/0083.html
14:08:27 <Dzung_Tran> Present+ Dzung_Tran
14:08:46 <jmorris> jmorris has joined #dap
14:09:22 <arve> RESOLUTION: Regrouping requirements OK
14:09:28 <jmorris> Present+ John_Morris
14:10:27 <arve> Topic: APIs
14:10:32 <Zakim> +enewland
14:11:25 <fjh> max status summary
14:11:27 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010May/0063.html 
14:11:27 <arve> maxf: one outstanding issue remaining
14:11:30 <jmorris> zakim, enewland is jmorris
14:11:30 <Zakim> +jmorris; got it
14:11:41 <dom> ISSUE-64?
14:11:41 <trackbot> ISSUE-64 -- "Generic" sensors may permit discovering sensitive information -- RAISED
14:11:41 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/64
14:11:45 <fjh> privacy
14:11:46 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010May/0072.html 
14:11:56 <fjh> suresh
14:11:57 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010May/0073.html 
14:12:33 <dom> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010May/0071.html Alissa's comments
14:12:36 <arve> maxf will implement changes as suggested
14:12:46 <danielcoloma> danielcoloma has joined #dap
14:13:28 <fjh> action: maxf to implement privacy changes noted by alissa, see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010May/0072.html
14:13:28 <trackbot> Created ACTION-173 - Implement privacy changes noted by alissa, see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010May/0072.html [on Max Froumentin - due 2010-05-26].
14:13:41 <fjh> action-173: target is sysinfo
14:13:41 <trackbot> ACTION-173 Implement privacy changes noted by alissa, see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010May/0072.html notes added
14:14:27 <dom> zakim, mute me
14:14:27 <Zakim> Dom should now be muted
14:15:12 <fjh> q+ to ask about minimization,  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010May/0076.html
14:16:27 <fjh> suresh asks about 4.7, naming
14:17:49 <jmorris> 1+ on a complete table
14:18:16 <darobin> s/1+/+1/
14:18:17 <fjh> suresh talking about table in annex portion of his comments
14:18:20 <darobin> q?
14:18:26 <maxf> q+
14:18:44 <darobin> q+
14:18:53 <darobin> ack maxf 
14:19:16 <arve> maxf: will be responding to suresh's concerns one by one on mailing list
14:19:33 <jmorris> q+ re alissa's points (unless alissa wants to go)
14:19:34 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
14:19:34 <Zakim> On the phone I see fjh, maxf, alissa, Dom (muted), ilkka, Claes, Maria, Suresh, darobin?, richt, arve, jmorris
14:19:34 <Zakim> On IRC I see danielcoloma, jmorris, Dzung_Tran, richt, maoteo, Suresh, Claes, soonho, alissa, darobin, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, Marcos, arve, maxf, ingmar, ilkka, lgombos, dom,
14:19:39 <Zakim> ... trackbot
14:19:44 <fjh> q?
14:19:51 <alissa> q+
14:19:59 <jmorris> q-
14:20:04 <jmorris> Alissa can go
14:20:10 <darobin> ack alissa 
14:20:16 <darobin> q+ alissa
14:20:24 <danielcoloma> zakim, who is here?
14:20:24 <Zakim> On the phone I see fjh, maxf, alissa, Dom (muted), ilkka, Claes, Maria, Suresh, darobin?, richt, arve, jmorris
14:20:27 <Zakim> On IRC I see danielcoloma, jmorris, Dzung_Tran, richt, maoteo, Suresh, Claes, soonho, alissa, darobin, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, Marcos, arve, maxf, ingmar, ilkka, lgombos, dom,
14:20:30 <Zakim> ... trackbot
14:20:59 <arve> john: primary non-editorial concern is the synchronicity of getters
14:21:10 <arve> ... some sensors might be slow to respond
14:21:23 <fjh> s/.../rberjon: /
14:21:32 <fjh> s/respond/respond, hence use of async for get
14:22:01 <arve> suresh: are we optimizing for corner cases with use of callbacks?
14:22:27 <arve> ... sysinfo is information you have readily available
14:22:58 <fjh> suresh proposes should use monitor function instead of get in this kind of case
14:23:09 <arve> q+
14:23:21 <darobin> ack darobin
14:23:24 <darobin> ack arve
14:23:34 <jmorris> s/john:/rberjon:/
14:24:41 <arve> arve: should we really increase API complexity by adding another method for synchronous getters
14:24:56 <arve> ack arve
14:26:03 <fjh> prefer consistency in using async methods, reducing complexity of number of choices
14:26:23 <arve> arve: implementors complexity increases by adding synchronous getters
14:26:56 <darobin> [I tend to agree with arve and max, developers are used to using async nowadays]
14:27:28 <maxf> the same argument could be made for Contacts API
14:28:09 <darobin> [privacy and security]
14:28:32 <maxf> Arve: some properties like SSID are static. Privacy sensitive APIs which will ask the user for consent will need asynchronous
14:29:09 <fjh> we agreed on general async approach to avoid blocking, enable privacy consent etc
14:29:13 <arve> darobin: will not want to block on modal dialogs
14:29:19 <Marcos> Marcos has joined #dap
14:31:10 <jmorris> zakim, mute me
14:31:10 <Zakim> jmorris should now be muted
14:31:15 <tlr> tlr has joined #dap
14:31:29 <maxf> webworkers might help, but they wouldn't prevent authors to make blocking dialogs if they wanted.
14:32:09 <jmorris> zakim, unmute me
14:32:09 <Zakim> jmorris should no longer be muted
14:33:11 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
14:33:11 <Zakim> On the phone I see fjh, maxf, alissa, Dom (muted), ilkka, Claes, Maria, Suresh, darobin?, richt, arve, jmorris
14:33:13 <Zakim> On IRC I see tlr, Marcos, jmorris, Dzung_Tran, richt, maoteo, Suresh, Claes, alissa, darobin, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, arve, maxf, ingmar, ilkka, lgombos, dom, trackbot
14:33:33 <fjh> Regrets+ Thomas_Roessler
14:35:14 <fjh> +1 to consistent model, uniformity and enabling flexibility in changing which need consent or dialogs
14:37:12 <arve> RESOLUTION: will keep getters asynchronous
14:37:17 <fjh> q?
14:37:19 <fjh> ack fjh
14:37:19 <Zakim> fjh, you wanted to ask about minimization,  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010May/0076.html
14:38:23 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010May/0076.html
14:38:38 <arve> alissa: in terms of the network property
14:38:41 <fjh> network properties minimization
14:39:50 <arve> alissa: provide only information about the active connection?
14:41:05 <arve> q+
14:41:15 <fjh> ack alissa
14:42:25 <fjh> ack arve
14:42:42 <darobin> [on mobiles, it is common to have 3G and MMS :)]
14:42:44 <fjh> arve asks how common are multiple active connections, notes that comment e.g. wired and wireless
14:42:46 <arve> arve: how common are multiple active connections?
14:43:06 <fjh> s/arve asks how common are multiple active connections, notes that comment e.g. wired and wireless//
14:43:14 <darobin> [in general, I think it makes sense to only expose active connections]
14:43:18 <fjh> s/connections?/connections? e.g. wired and wireless at once etc
14:43:47 <maxf> it's a reality that devices have more than one connection, but no one seems to know whether it's worth supporting in the API. That's noted in the specification.
14:43:49 <arve> alissa: wants to discuss use cases for multiple active connections
14:44:21 <Zakim> -richt
14:44:23 <jmorris> also want to know use cases more broadly, for MAC address, SSID, etc.
14:44:56 <maxf> q+ to say more
14:45:02 <arve> alissa: do you need to know the sensitive information from particular active or inactive connections
14:45:07 <dom> q- say 
14:45:32 <fjh> ack maxf
14:45:32 <Zakim> maxf, you wanted to say more
14:46:11 <dom> ack me
14:46:39 <arve> Zakim, mute maxf 
14:46:39 <Zakim> maxf should now be muted
14:47:09 <arve> maxf: no proper discussion on the properties in the network interfaces have taken place
14:47:16 <jmorris> +1 on proper discussion
14:47:29 <arve> ... this would be a good opportunity to initialize this discussion
14:47:35 <fjh> can we use alissa's email as a starting point?
14:47:36 <jmorris> +1 on doing discussion on list
14:47:54 <Zakim> -maxf
14:48:02 <maxf> zakim, arve has maxf
14:48:02 <Zakim> +maxf; got it
14:48:52 <arve> ACTION: alissa will provide an initial analysis of properties
14:48:53 <trackbot> Created ACTION-174 - Will provide an initial analysis of properties [on Alissa Cooper - due 2010-05-26].
14:49:05 <fjh> q+
14:49:35 <fjh> q-
14:49:42 <arve> fjh: do we remove speculation on when we go to CR?
14:49:51 <Zakim> +richt
14:50:05 <arve> ... (on the DAP home page)
14:50:55 <darobin> q?
14:51:31 <fjh> Topic: Filereader
14:51:39 <arve> darobin: discussion about FileReader (by WebApps)
14:52:09 <arve> ... please provide feedback to that WG, as it is of some importance to this group
14:52:27 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
14:52:27 <Zakim> On the phone I see fjh, alissa, Dom, ilkka, Claes, Maria, Suresh, darobin?, arve, jmorris, richt
14:52:30 <Zakim> arve has maxf
14:52:31 <Zakim> On IRC I see tlr, Marcos, jmorris, richt, maoteo, Suresh, Claes, alissa, darobin, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, arve, maxf, ingmar, ilkka, lgombos, dom, trackbot
14:52:54 <Zakim> -Dom
14:52:56 <Zakim> -darobin?
14:53:02 <Zakim> -alissa
14:53:04 <Zakim> -Suresh
14:53:07 <Zakim> -fjh
14:53:09 <Zakim> -Maria
14:53:14 <fjh> rrsagent, generate minutes
14:53:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/19-dap-minutes.html fjh
14:53:14 <Zakim> -Claes
14:53:15 <Zakim> -richt
14:53:15 <Zakim> -jmorris
14:53:46 <fjh> s/+04610801aabb is Claes//
14:53:57 <fjh> s/aadd is Suresh//
14:54:18 <Zakim> -arve
14:54:19 <fjh> s/Alissa can go//
14:54:20 <Zakim> -ilkka
14:54:21 <Zakim> UW_DAP()10:00AM has ended
14:54:23 <Zakim> Attendees were fjh, +0472369aaaa, alissa, maxf, Dom, ilkka, +04610801aabb, +03491337aacc, +1.972.373.aadd, Suresh, +1.314.454.aaee, Claes, richt, darobin?, +47.23.69.aagg, Maria,
14:54:25 <Zakim> ... jmorris
14:54:41 <fjh> rrsagent, generate minutes
14:54:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/19-dap-minutes.html fjh
14:55:23 <fjh> s/scribenick arve//
14:55:59 <fjh> rrsagent, generate minutes
14:55:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/19-dap-minutes.html fjh
14:56:02 <arve> fjh: because I wasn't sure whether I'd been disconnected
14:56:15 <fjh_> fjh_ has joined #dap
14:56:18 <Marcos> Marcos has joined #dap
14:56:23 <arve> fjh_: because I wasn't sure whether I'd been disconnected
15:03:23 <maxf1> maxf1 has joined #dap
15:10:34 <fjh> action-172?
15:10:35 <trackbot> ACTION-172 -- Frederick Hirsch to confirm status of sysinfo comment handling with max, and add privacy text -- due 2010-05-19 -- PENDINGREVIEW
15:10:35 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/172
15:10:41 <fjh> action-172 closed
15:10:42 <trackbot> ACTION-172 Confirm status of sysinfo comment handling with max, and add privacy text closed
15:11:11 <fjh> action-173?
15:11:11 <trackbot> ACTION-173 -- Max Froumentin to implement privacy changes noted by alissa, see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010May/0072.html -- due 2010-05-26 -- OPEN
15:11:11 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/173
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