14:37:24 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rif
14:37:24 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/05/18-rif-irc
14:37:34 <csma> rrsagent, make log public
14:37:41 <csma> rrsagent, make minutes
14:37:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/18-rif-minutes.html csma
14:39:36 <csma> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2010May/0069.html
14:39:46 <csma> Chair: Christian de Sainte Marie
14:40:27 <csma> Regrets: JosDeBruijn AdrianPaschke  LeoraMorgenstern
14:40:40 <csma> Zakim, list agenda
14:40:40 <Zakim> I see nothing on the agenda
14:40:57 <csma> agendum+ Admin
14:41:27 <csma> agendum+ Liaisons
14:41:39 <csma> agendum+ Actions review
14:42:00 <csma> agendum+ Proposed Rec!
14:42:10 <csma> agendum+ RIF Primer
14:42:19 <csma> agendum+ Test cases
14:42:33 <csma> agendum+ AOB (next meeting)
14:58:01 <ChrisW> ChrisW has joined #rif
14:58:09 <ChrisW> zakim, list agenda
14:58:09 <Zakim> I see 7 items remaining on the agenda:
14:58:09 <Zakim> 1. Admin [from csma]
14:58:10 <Zakim> 2. Liaisons [from csma]
14:58:10 <Zakim> 3. Actions review [from csma]
14:58:12 <Zakim> 4. Proposed Rec! [from csma]
14:58:12 <Zakim> 5. RIF Primer [from csma]
14:58:14 <Zakim> 6. Test cases [from csma]
14:58:15 <Zakim> 7. AOB (next meeting) [from csma]
14:58:46 <Zakim> SW_RIF()11:00AM has now started
14:58:53 <Zakim> +Sandro
14:59:11 <Zakim> +[IBM]
14:59:16 <ChrisW> zakim, ibm is temporarily me
14:59:17 <Zakim> +ChrisW; got it
14:59:56 <DaveReynolds> DaveReynolds has joined #rif
15:01:09 <Zakim> +??P39
15:03:40 <csma> csma has joined #rif
15:03:41 <MichaelKifer> MichaelKifer has joined #rif
15:04:03 <Harold> Harold has joined #rif
15:04:47 <Zakim> +[NRCC]
15:05:17 <Harold> zakim, NRCC is me
15:05:17 <Zakim> +Harold; got it
15:05:29 <Zakim> + +1.631.833.aaaa
15:05:30 <Zakim> +AxelPolleres
15:05:45 <Zakim> + +5875aabb
15:05:46 <MichaelKifer> zakim, aaaa is me
15:05:47 <Zakim> +MichaelKifer; got it
15:06:38 <csma> don't you hear me?
15:07:30 <csma> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:07:30 <Zakim> On the phone I see Sandro, ChrisW, DaveReynolds, Harold, MichaelKifer, AxelPolleres, +5875aabb
15:07:44 <csma> zakim, aabb is me
15:07:44 <Zakim> +csma; got it
15:07:53 <Gary_Hallmark> Gary_Hallmark has joined #rif
15:07:55 <Zakim> + +1.503.533.aacc
15:08:14 <Gary> zakim, aacc is me
15:08:14 <Zakim> +Gary; got it
15:09:14 <DaveReynolds> scribenick: DaveReynolds
15:09:15 <csma> Scribe: Dave Reynolds
15:09:23 <csma> item 1
15:09:30 <ChrisW> rrsagent, make minutes
15:09:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/18-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
15:09:33 <csma> next item
15:10:01 <csma> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2010May/att-0007/2010-05-04-rif-minutes.html
15:10:24 <csma> PROPOSED: approve meinutes 4 May
15:10:46 <ChrisW> +1
15:10:48 <csma> RESOLVED: approve minutes from May 4
15:10:49 <MichaelKifer> +1
15:11:05 <csma> next item
15:11:50 <DaveReynolds> Axel: SPARQL will publish new round of docs in next 2-3 weeks, suggest looking at entailments document
15:12:50 <DaveReynolds> Axel: question from SPARQL WG - need URI to denote RIF import, assuming use existing RIF namespace
15:13:53 <DaveReynolds> Sandro: need details before making that decision
15:14:17 <DaveReynolds> Axel: note "under discussion" in draft
15:14:51 <csma> next item
15:15:08 <AxelPolleres> editor's draft version is still undergoing small changes, will keep you updated (or via sandro, if he's ok wirth that)
15:16:56 <ChrisW> Meeting: RIF Telecon 18-May-2010
15:17:27 <DaveReynolds> action-1009 closed
15:17:28 <trackbot> ACTION-1009 Review Appendix A of FLD closed
15:17:37 <DaveReynolds> action-1007 closed
15:17:37 <trackbot> ACTION-1007 Review new FLD appendix on herbrand structures closed
15:17:47 <DaveReynolds> action-1006 closed
15:17:47 <trackbot> ACTION-1006 Update PRD changelog closed
15:18:02 <AxelPolleres> ah, sorry, I just see the latest draft has URI  http://www.w3.org/ns/entailment/RDF-RIF-imports which is not in the rif-namespace, so it should be fine.
15:18:32 <DaveReynolds> action-1005 closed
15:18:32 <trackbot> ACTION-1005 Draft reply to WL closed
15:20:01 <DaveReynolds> action-733 closed
15:20:01 <trackbot> ACTION-733 Review owl-2 rl embedding of combinations closed
15:20:31 <welty> welty has joined #rif
15:20:58 <ChrisW> ChrisW has left #rif
15:21:08 <csma> next item
15:23:04 <DaveReynolds> csma: everyone talk to ac reps to encourage support for move to recommendation
15:23:47 <DaveReynolds> sandro: when Rec published (~1month if goes well), there will press release, opportunity for member organizations to offer testimonials to include, see guidelines in email
15:24:15 <AxelPolleres> q+ ask about clarification on # facts in core...
15:24:37 <csma> ack axel
15:25:37 <DaveReynolds> Axel: issue of membership facts was resolved in email, but would still prefer improved phrasing
15:25:48 <DaveReynolds> Sandro: purely editorial changes are OK
15:26:00 <AxelPolleres> Doe we need to discharge the contradicting resolution? 
15:26:06 <AxelPolleres> with a new one?
15:27:35 <DaveReynolds> csma: does asserting the corresponding frames from OWL ontology using rdf:type instead of membership (work? scribe missed question)
15:28:31 <DaveReynolds> csma: asserting as frames has same effect as asserting as membership?
15:28:35 <DaveReynolds> Axel: yes
15:29:28 <DaveReynolds> Axel: do we need a resolution to bring resolution state up to correspondence with spec?
15:30:42 <DaveReynolds> csma: thinking about implications for PRD, try writing it down as a test case
15:31:39 <AxelPolleres> so, what about http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/meeting/2009-01-15#resolution_3 ?
15:32:51 <DaveReynolds> Sandro: something to clarify the record would make sense
15:33:52 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: update http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/meeting/2009-01-15#resolution_3  with the following text in Rif Core
15:34:06 <DaveReynolds> csma: clarify question over corresponding OWL frames then agree improved text
15:34:14 <AxelPolleres> * Equality terms and class membership terms *cannot* occur in universal
15:34:14 <AxelPolleres>   facts, variable-free atomic formulas outside of rule premises, or rule
15:34:14 <AxelPolleres>   conclusions -- they are allowed only in rule premises
15:36:18 <DaveReynolds> csma: is asserting rdf:type is equivalent to asserting #, is a reference to rdf:type automatically imply SWC?
15:36:31 <DaveReynolds> s/is a/does a/
15:37:06 <DaveReynolds> sandro: need to import to invoke SWC sections, might be done with an empty document
15:38:34 <AxelPolleres> I would view christian's concern orthogonal...
15:38:49 <AxelPolleres> ... to the RIF Core resolution.
15:40:00 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: update http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/meeting/2009-01-15#resolution_3  with the proposed text in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2010May/0057.html in Section 2.3 of Rif Core
15:40:43 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: update http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/meeting/2009-01-15#resolution_3  with adpoting the proposed text in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2010May/0057.html in Section 2.3 of Rif Core
15:40:48 <csma> * Equality terms and class membership terms *cannot* occur in universal
15:40:50 <csma> > facts, variable-free atomic formulas outside of rule premises, or rule
15:40:51 <csma> > conclusions -- they are allowed only in rule premises.
15:41:47 <Harold> *cannot* should not be emphasized.
15:41:57 <DaveReynolds> Harold: without the emphasis on "cannot"
15:42:57 <csma> PROPOSED: update http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/meeting/2009-01-15#resolution_3  with including the folling text in section 2.3 of RIF Core: "Equality terms and class membership terms cannot occur in universal facts, variable-free atomic formulas outside of rule premises, or rule conclusions -- they are allowed only in rule premises."
15:44:29 <sandro> +0
15:44:34 <AxelPolleres> 0 ... meaning that in principle I still had preferred # facts in Core (easier to explain, IMO), but I can live with the resolution. Given the implications, this is probably the best we can do now.
15:44:41 <ChrisW> +1
15:44:42 <Harold> +1
15:44:45 <sandro> (right, like axel)
15:44:46 <MichaelKifer> 0
15:44:48 <DaveReynolds> +0
15:44:55 <csma> RESOLVED: update http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/meeting/2009-01-15#resolution_3  with including the folling text in section 2.3 of RIF Core: "Equality terms and class membership terms cannot occur in universal facts, variable-free atomic formulas outside of rule premises, or rule conclusions -- they are allowed only in rule premises."
15:45:37 <sandro> sandro has changed the topic to: #rif RIF Telecon 
15:46:16 <csma> http://www.w3.org/TR/rif-core/#Appendix:_RIF_Media_Type_Registration
15:47:06 <DaveReynolds> csma: wondering if media type registration belongs to core or applies to BLD and PRD
15:47:37 <DaveReynolds> Harold: specified in Core since both BLD and PRD extend core
15:47:54 <DaveReynolds> Sandro: it is in the IANA registry, does not need duplication to other specs
15:48:53 <DaveReynolds> Sandro: points out editorial problem in section "Applications that use this media type", will deal with it
15:49:47 <sandro> ACTION sandro: fix the reference to Proposed Rec in the Media Type Registraiton, in Core
15:49:47 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1013 - Fix the reference to Proposed Rec in the Media Type Registraiton, in Core [on Sandro Hawke - due 2010-05-25].
15:50:08 <DaveReynolds> Sandro: as well as talk to AC rep and marketing representatives, should make effort to contact others nominally still in WG to encourage them to support
15:50:21 <csma> http://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=38457
15:50:37 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=38457&order=org
15:53:53 <DaveReynolds> action: Sandro to contact Clevand Clinic to encourage AC support
15:53:53 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1014 - Contact Clevand Clinic to encourage AC support [on Sandro Hawke - due 2010-05-25].
15:58:27 <AxelPolleres> I think Darko is also in Karlsruhe now...
15:58:28 <DaveReynolds> action: csma email Markus Krotzsch re AC support
15:58:28 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1015 - Email Markus Krotzsch re AC support [on Christian de Sainte Marie - due 2010-05-25].
15:59:01 <DaveReynolds> action: csma email Enrico Franconi re AC support
15:59:01 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1016 - Email Enrico Franconi re AC support [on Christian de Sainte Marie - due 2010-05-25].
15:59:11 <DaveReynolds> action: csma email Luis Polo re AC support
15:59:11 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1017 - Email Luis Polo re AC support [on Christian de Sainte Marie - due 2010-05-25].
15:59:36 <DaveReynolds> action: axel contact Michael Sintek re AC support
15:59:36 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1018 - Contact Michael Sintek re AC support [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-05-25].
16:00:02 <Zakim> -Gary
16:00:09 <AxelPolleres> q+ do we have a template for the support mail?
16:00:30 <AxelPolleres> q+ to ask whethrer we have a template for the support mail?
16:01:08 <csma> ack axel
16:01:08 <Zakim> AxelPolleres, you wanted to ask whethrer we have a template for the support mail?
16:02:00 <sandro> 1.  Get AC Reps to fill out http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/33280/rif_pr_auto/ and support RIF.
16:02:34 <AxelPolleres> 2 things to do: 1) talk to AC Reps to vote for RIF and 2) to encourage advertising press releases
16:02:38 <sandro> 2.  Get marketing departments to send in testimonials for support, as per http://www.w3.org/2004/12/testimonial_pr-guidelines.html
16:02:39 <DaveReynolds> Chris: two things to do - talk to your own AC rep to ask them to vote for it, if you want to be included in press release get someone in marketing area to put testimonial together
16:02:41 <AxelPolleres> alright.
16:04:02 <DaveReynolds> action: csma contact Mohamed Zergaoui re: AC suport
16:04:02 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1019 - Contact Mohamed Zergaoui re: AC suport [on Christian de Sainte Marie - due 2010-05-25].
16:04:55 <DaveReynolds> action: sandro contact Igor Mozetic re: AC support
16:04:55 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1020 - Contact Igor Mozetic re: AC support [on Sandro Hawke - due 2010-05-25].
16:06:14 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/Member/ACList
16:07:00 <DaveReynolds> action: csma talk to Ken for Mitre re: AC support
16:07:00 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1021 - Talk to Ken for Mitre re: AC support [on Christian de Sainte Marie - due 2010-05-25].
16:07:14 <AxelPolleres> need to run, sorry...
16:07:21 <DaveReynolds> action: csma talk to Guido  re: AC support
16:07:21 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1022 - Talk to Guido  re: AC support [on Christian de Sainte Marie - due 2010-05-25].
16:07:28 <Zakim> -AxelPolleres
16:07:30 <AxelPolleres> AxelPolleres has left #rif
16:07:38 <sandro> Mary Brady @ NIST
16:07:49 <DaveReynolds> action: csma talk to Ed Barkmeyer  re: AC support
16:07:49 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1023 - Talk to Ed Barkmeyer  re: AC support [on Christian de Sainte Marie - due 2010-05-25].
16:08:28 <DaveReynolds> action: csma talk to OMG  re: AC support
16:08:28 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1024 - Talk to OMG  re: AC support [on Christian de Sainte Marie - due 2010-05-25].
16:08:49 <DaveReynolds> action: csma talk to Mark Proctor re: AC support
16:08:49 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1025 - Talk to Mark Proctor re: AC support [on Christian de Sainte Marie - due 2010-05-25].
16:09:14 <DaveReynolds> action: dave talk to Elisa  re: AC support
16:09:14 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1026 - Talk to Elisa  re: AC support [on Dave Reynolds - due 2010-05-25].
16:09:53 <DaveReynolds> action: Sandro contact Boeing re: AC support
16:09:53 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1027 - Contact Boeing re: AC support [on Sandro Hawke - due 2010-05-25].
16:10:38 <DaveReynolds> action: dave contact Jeff Pan re: AC support
16:10:38 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1028 - Contact Jeff Pan re: AC support [on Dave Reynolds - due 2010-05-25].
16:11:05 <DaveReynolds> action: Chrisw contact Bijan re: AC support
16:11:05 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - Chrisw
16:11:24 <DaveReynolds> action: Chris contact Bijan re: AC support
16:11:24 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1029 - Contact Bijan re: AC support [on Christopher Welty - due 2010-05-25].
16:11:59 <csma> next item
16:12:42 <DaveReynolds> Chris: have an outline, working on content at the moment
16:13:01 <DaveReynolds> Chris: starting with simple motivating examples
16:13:34 <DaveReynolds> Chris: primarily aimed at linked data community, focuses on rule language and why you would want them
16:14:10 <DaveReynolds> Chris: focused mainly on Core/BLD, might also want PRD but want to keep short
16:14:56 <DaveReynolds> Chris: timescale not clear yet, try to get estimate for next telecon
16:16:10 <csma> next item
16:16:16 <ChrisW> ChrisW has joined #rif
16:16:19 <MichaelKifer> I have to go now. Bye everyone
16:16:23 <MichaelKifer> MichaelKifer has left #rif
16:16:28 <csma> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Category:Proposed
16:16:28 <Zakim> -MichaelKifer
16:16:55 <Zakim> -Harold
16:17:36 <csma> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:17:36 <Zakim> On the phone I see Sandro, ChrisW, DaveReynolds, csma
16:18:29 <csma> rrsagent, make minutes
16:18:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/18-rif-minutes.html csma
16:18:46 <sandro> zakim, list attendees
16:18:46 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Sandro, ChrisW, DaveReynolds, Harold, +1.631.833.aaaa, AxelPolleres, +5875aabb, MichaelKifer, csma, +1.503.533.aacc, Gary
16:18:57 <csma> rrsagent, make minutes
16:18:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/18-rif-minutes.html csma
16:23:29 <Zakim> -DaveReynolds
16:28:54 <Zakim> -ChrisW
16:28:56 <Zakim> -Sandro
16:29:05 <Zakim> -csma
16:29:06 <Zakim> SW_RIF()11:00AM has ended
16:29:08 <Zakim> Attendees were Sandro, ChrisW, DaveReynolds, Harold, +1.631.833.aaaa, AxelPolleres, +5875aabb, MichaelKifer, csma, +1.503.533.aacc, Gary
16:31:52 <ChrisW> ChrisW has joined #rif