15:03:25 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #htmlt
15:03:25 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/05/18-htmlt-irc
15:03:31 <gsnedders> zakim, this will be htmlt
15:03:31 <Zakim> ok, gsnedders; I see HTML_WG(HTMLT)11:00AM scheduled to start 3 minutes ago
15:03:38 <gsnedders> zakim, what's the code?
15:03:54 <plh> plh has joined #htmlt
15:03:55 <Zakim> the conference code is 48658 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), gsnedders
15:04:43 <Zakim> HTML_WG(HTMLT)11:00AM has now started
15:04:45 <Zakim> +Plh
15:06:20 <gsnedders> No, we've all ended up late :)
15:06:48 <plh> hu?
15:06:53 <plh> the time was moved?
15:06:59 <plh> or kris gave up after 2 minutes?
15:07:12 <gsnedders> No, kris said he would be ready in around five mins 7 mins ago
15:07:28 <plh> oh
15:07:33 <krisk> krisk has joined #HTMLT
15:07:41 <krisk> ok calling in now
15:07:47 <gsnedders> And my phone seems not to be dialing out :\
15:08:40 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
15:09:19 <krisk> trackbot, status
15:09:19 <trackbot> This channel is not configured
15:09:40 <krisk> trackbot, prepare telcon
15:09:40 <trackbot> Sorry... I don't know anything about this channel
15:09:40 <trackbot> If you want to associate this channel with an existing Tracker, please say 'trackbot, associate this channel with #channel' (where #channel is the name of default channel for the group)
15:09:44 <plh> trackbot-ng, start telcon
15:09:46 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:09:48 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be HTML
15:09:48 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see HTML_WG(HTMLT)11:00AM already started
15:09:49 <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Weekly Teleconference
15:09:49 <trackbot> Date: 18 May 2010
15:11:17 <krisk> gsnedders - if you can't call into meeting - can you participate using IRC?
15:11:30 <krisk> zakim, Microsoft is krisk
15:11:30 <Zakim> +krisk; got it
15:11:35 <Zakim> + +0472369aaaa
15:11:40 <gsnedders> zakim, aaaa is me
15:11:40 <Zakim> +gsnedders; got it
15:12:26 <plh> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-testsuite/2010May/0016.html
15:13:08 <plh> Topic: Check for any bugs on approved tests (currently zero)
15:13:17 <plh> Kris: no bug to be reported
15:13:27 <krisk> The url for bugs would be http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&product=HTML+WG&component=testsuite&long_desc_type=allwordssubstr&long_desc=&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&status_whiteboard_type=allwordssubstr&status_whiteboard=&keywords_type=allwords&keywords=&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&emailtype1=substring&email1=&emailtype2=substring&email2=&bugid
15:14:00 <plh> Topic: Review Current Tests Posted To List For Approval
15:14:11 <plh> Kris: no test to approve, but Microsoft submitted some tests
15:14:21 <plh> ... we got some feedback
15:14:41 <plh> ... from Anne. looking into it.
15:15:11 <plh> ... also getElementsByTagName and some selection tests
15:15:29 <plh> Topic: Video tag test
15:16:02 <plh> Kris: we're still working on a little template for video testing
15:16:19 <plh> ... how would we deal with different video codecs
15:17:15 <plh> plh: I posted videos in MP4 and Ogg Theora
15:18:18 <krisk> I am looking for something very simple - 
15:18:35 <krisk> basically a video clip that is green for 15 seconds then red for the next 15 seconds
15:18:59 <plh> http://www.w3.org/2008/12/dfxp-testsuite/web-framework/dfxp_movie.ogv
15:19:01 <krisk> For example using the text from the spec (test assertion?)
15:19:02 <krisk> "When a video element is potentially playing, it represents the frame of video at the continuously increasing "current" position."
15:19:10 <plh> http://www.w3.org/2008/12/dfxp-testsuite/web-framework/dfxp_movie_mp4.avi
15:19:26 <plh> http://www.w3.org/2008/12/dfxp-testsuite/web-framework/dfxp_movie.flv
15:22:56 <plh> Kris: the video should help us figuring out when it's speeding up or slowing down
15:23:19 <plh> plh: we can reuse videos from the timed text working group
15:23:30 <krisk> sounds good
15:25:33 <plh> ACTIOn: plh to post more videos for testing
15:25:33 <trackbot> Created ACTION-180 - Post more videos for testing [on Philippe Le Hégaret - due 2010-05-25].
15:27:32 <plh> plh: let's keep in mind that we're not here to test the video codec itself
15:27:43 <krisk> agree
15:28:30 <plh> Kris:Topic: Test Assertions
15:28:36 <plh> Topic: Test Assertions
15:28:37 <krisk> I'd like to be more specific about 'creating' tests
15:28:55 <plh> Kris: we really want people to focus on assertions and provide tests that test those assertions
15:29:26 <plh> plh: do we access to all assertions?
15:29:30 <plh> s//have/
15:30:25 <jgraham> What do people mean by "assertions" here?
15:30:37 <jgraham> assertions in the spec?
15:30:39 <gsnedders> jgraham: yeah
15:31:09 <plh> Geoffrey: it may not always be easy to extract assertions from the spec.
15:31:12 <jgraham> We should make a version of the spec that is annotated with tests that are needed or links to existing tests
15:31:26 <plh> kris: better ask people to write assertions first before writing the tests.
15:31:41 <jgraham> RFC2119 MUST would automatically be an annotation point
15:31:46 <jgraham> The parser is harder
15:31:53 <gsnedders> jgraham: See the Wigets specs
15:32:07 <jgraham> gsnedders: Seen, but they don't go far enough
15:32:31 <jgraham> (you don't want the tests to be too shallow)
15:32:43 <gsnedders> jgraham: How so?
15:33:16 <gsnedders> http://www.w3.org/TR/test-methodology/
15:33:32 <plh> plh: I can try to explore getting assertions automatically from the spec.
15:33:53 <plh> ACTION: plh to explore extracting assertions from the HTML5 spec
15:33:53 <trackbot> Created ACTION-181 - Explore extracting assertions from the HTML5 spec [on Philippe Le Hégaret - due 2010-05-25].
15:34:02 <jgraham> gsnedders: Because IIRC their methodology focuses on getting a single test per assertion
15:34:12 <gsnedders> jgraham: No, it doesn't.
15:34:30 <gsnedders> jgraham: It focuses on having a complete test suite for each assertion in the spec
15:34:47 <krisk> krisk has joined #HTMLT
15:36:14 <jgraham> gsnedders: Maybe I should study it more, but I don't recall anything that would help you realise that, say, a testsuite for document.body should check that .body pointed to the right element in the case where you replace the root element with a body element
15:36:57 <gsnedders> jgraham: The approach they were taking, or at least my understanding of when I spoke to marcosc a bit under two months ago, was that you wanted to test every interesting case
15:37:07 <gsnedders> ... for each assertion
15:39:41 <jgraham> gsnedders: Sure. I don't particularly see that their document helps with that though. It mainly helps ensure each thing is tested at least once
15:41:02 <plh> [discussion on how stable the video API/events are]
15:41:06 <gsnedders> jgraham: Yeah, I don't think it actually makes sure you have a complete test suites, it just makes sure you know at least to some degree what needs to be tested
15:44:28 <plh> plh: some of the events or properties may change due to multi-track supports. such as ended event, or currentSrc.
15:44:49 <krisk> change is going to happen
15:44:53 <plh> Geoffrey: we have 5 implementations for video already, those are unlikely to change
15:45:08 <krisk> we don't totally control what changes
15:45:21 <gsnedders> ... in a backwards incompatible way
15:45:26 <krisk> though what we do control is creating assertions and then tests from the spec
15:45:35 <gsnedders> (which means that most of the current API is stable)
15:47:12 <plh> ACTIOn: Kris to write one test for the video element, as an example
15:47:12 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - Kris
15:47:31 <plh> ACTIOn: KKrueger to write one test for the video element, as an example
15:47:31 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - KKrueger
15:47:40 <krisk> maybe krisk
15:47:43 <plh> trackbot-ng, status?
15:47:43 <trackbot> This channel is not configured
15:49:21 <krisk> I can manually add a tracker item for the video test/work
15:50:13 <Zakim> -Plh
15:50:14 <Zakim> -krisk
15:50:16 <Zakim> -gsnedders
15:50:16 <Zakim> HTML_WG(HTMLT)11:00AM has ended
15:50:18 <Zakim> Attendees were Plh, krisk, +0472369aaaa, gsnedders
15:50:58 <krisk> rrsagent, make minutes
15:50:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/18-htmlt-minutes.html krisk
15:51:11 <krisk> rrsagent, make logs public
17:33:51 <Zakim> Zakim has left #htmlt