21:58:01 RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
21:58:01 logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/05/12-html-a11y-irc
21:58:03 RRSAgent, make logs world
21:58:03 Zakim has joined #html-a11y
21:58:05 Zakim, this will be 2119
21:58:05 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(A11Y)6:00PM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
21:58:06 Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
21:58:06 Date: 12 May 2010
21:58:37 chair: John_Foliot
21:58:47 meeting: Media sub-group - HTML Accessibility Task Force
21:58:58 janina has joined #html-a11y
21:59:04 Sean_ has joined #html-a11y
21:59:16 == Agenda ==
21:59:18 1. Requirements Gathering (Update)
21:59:20 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/MultimediaAccessibility
21:59:22 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/Accessibility_Requirements_of_Media
21:59:23 2. Integration of 2 Draft Proposals into Draft Spec by Editor
21:59:24 zakim, call janina
21:59:24 ok, janina; the call is being made
21:59:25 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_MultitrackAPI
21:59:26 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_TextAssociations
21:59:28 3. Time Text Format
21:59:29 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=9673
21:59:31 http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/20100513_cfc-websrt/
21:59:32
21:59:34 4. Other business?
21:59:49 agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010May/0107.html
21:59:59 zakim, this is 2119
21:59:59 ok, MichaelC; that matches WAI_PFWG(A11Y)6:00PM
22:00:01 mudpit has joined #html-a11y
22:00:03 zakim, drop janina
22:00:03 Janina is being disconnected
22:00:06 -Janina
22:00:11 zakim, call janina
22:00:11 ok, janina; the call is being made
22:00:15 +Janina
22:00:17 +??P3
22:00:24 zakim, aaaa is Eric_Carlson
22:00:25 +Eric_Carlson; got it
22:00:32 zakim, aabb is John_Foliot
22:00:32 +John_Foliot; got it
22:00:38 zakim, ??P3 is Sean_Hayes
22:00:38 +Sean_Hayes; got it
22:00:39 zakim, drop janina
22:00:39 Janina is being disconnected
22:00:39 -Janina
22:00:44 zakim, call janina
22:00:44 ok, janina; the call is being made
22:00:46 +Janina
22:01:17 regrets+ Philippe_Le_Hégaret
22:01:19 zakim, drop janina
22:01:19 Janina is being disconnected
22:01:21 -Janina
22:01:26 zakim, call janina
22:01:26 ok, janina; the call is being made
22:01:28 +Janina
22:02:18 +Janina_Sajka
22:02:22 -Janina
22:02:37 mkobayas has joined #html-a11y
22:02:41 zakim,, who is on the phone?
22:02:41 I don't understand your question, janina.
22:02:47 zakim, code
22:02:47 I don't understand 'code', silvia
22:02:51 zakim, who's on the phone?
22:02:51 On the phone I see Eric_Carlson, John_Foliot, Michael_Cooper, Sean_Hayes, Janina_Sajka
22:03:10 zakim, call judy-mobile
22:03:10 ok, MichaelC; the call is being made
22:03:12 +Judy
22:04:17 +Mark_Hakkinen
22:05:14 +Silvia
22:05:29 zakim, mute me
22:05:29 Silvia should now be muted
22:06:57 scribe: silvia
22:07:18 Topic: 1. Requirements Gathering (Update)
22:07:46 requirements have been gathered at http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/Accessibility_Requirements_of_Media
22:08:21 Janina(?): we should go through and make sure we have covered all the requirements
22:08:49 … structure that was given before isn't fully represented
22:09:26 + +61.3.986.4.aacc
22:09:32 Marco: made architectural proposal to avoid classes
22:09:49 gfreed has joined #html-a11y
22:10:03 Judy: emails and minutes should be analysed for what is still missing
22:10:19 s/Marco/Markku/
22:10:33 zakim, +61 is probably Kenny_Johar
22:10:33 +Kenny_Johar?; got it
22:10:42 zakim, Kenny is Kenny_Johar
22:10:42 +Kenny_Johar; got it
22:10:45 Janina: we should distribute actions for each area
22:11:23 JF: unsure what further to do
22:11:25 +Geoff_Freed
22:11:45 Judy: would be helpful to go through actions from last time
22:12:34 … then figure out what's the best way to make use of this material
22:13:08 … get thoughtful about crossvetting the material
22:13:32 … cross-reviewed and well-vetted requirements list that should represent a consensus
22:13:49 JF: I'm almost hearing a spreadsheet
22:14:15 Judy: I'm less thinking about the format, but about how to approach the evaluation
22:14:31 … at some point a checklist would be good
22:14:46 … but I'm not too worried about the format right now
22:16:04 … we should this in this meeting: 1. action check, 2. review, 3. what to do next
22:16:34 JF: we're also missing the input from the IBM people on audio descriptions
22:17:01 (?): technical requirements seem to be still missing
22:17:24 … there is a lot of material more generally
22:17:32 s/(?)/Sean/
22:17:44 Mike: we should probably do a formal walk-through of the actions and then see what's missing
22:17:54 -> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/products/2 Media issues and actions
22:18:27 action-27?
22:18:27 ACTION-27 -- John Foliot to create requirements a11y media accessibility document -- due 2010-05-05 -- OPEN
22:18:27 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/27
22:18:37 action-27: see http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/Accessibility_Requirements_of_Media
22:18:38 ACTION-27 Create requirements a11y media accessibility document notes added
22:19:11 JF: I think that document is addressing action-27
22:19:13 action-27: also see http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/MultimediaAccessibility; more historical and prose than the formal actions
22:19:13 ACTION-27 Create requirements a11y media accessibility document notes added
22:19:33 close action-27
22:19:33 close action-27
22:19:33 ACTION-27 Create requirements a11y media accessibility document closed
22:19:33 ACTION-27 Create requirements a11y media accessibility document closed
22:19:37 action-29?
22:19:37 ACTION-29 -- Sean Hayes to look into descriptive video requirements -- due 2010-05-12 -- OPEN
22:19:37 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/29
22:19:55 action-29: added to http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/Accessibility_Requirements_of_Media
22:19:55 ACTION-29 Look into descriptive video requirements notes added
22:19:56 Sean: I think it's pretty much closed
22:20:05 … others should add to it
22:20:08 close action-29
22:20:08 ACTION-29 Look into descriptive video requirements closed
22:20:15 action-30?
22:20:16 ACTION-30 -- Janina Sajka to look into structural navigation requirements -- due 2010-05-12 -- OPEN
22:20:16 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/30
22:20:24 Janina: not yet complete
22:20:32 .. give me another week
22:20:33 action-30 due 19 May
22:20:33 ACTION-30 Look into structural navigation requirements due date now 19 May
22:20:40 action-31?
22:20:40 ACTION-31 -- Judy Brewer to follow up w/ Geoff on comprehensiveness of captioning requirements -- due 2010-05-12 -- OPEN
22:20:40 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/31
22:21:02 Judy: I did and pinged a few people during the week
22:21:20 … side-question to Geoff: do you have more that you want to add?
22:21:46 Geoff: it's mostly done - I have contributed comments from myself and colleagues at NCAM
22:21:50 mhakkinen has joined #html-a11y
22:22:04 … I want to go through requirements and use case section at the bottom
22:22:09 … I'd like to review that
22:22:23 action: Geoff to review use cases section of media requirements document
22:22:24 Created ACTION-41 - Review use cases section of media requirements document [on Geoff Freed - due 2010-05-19].
22:22:41 close action-31
22:22:41 ACTION-31 Follow up w/ Geoff on comprehensiveness of captioning requirements closed
22:22:48 action-32?
22:22:48 ACTION-32 -- Judy Brewer to follow up w/ Gunnar Hellstrom on comprehensiveness of secondary signed channel requirements -- due 2010-05-12 -- OPEN
22:22:48 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/32
22:22:59 Judy: haven't done yet
22:23:38 … Gunnar is expert on signing, but I don't think he has looked at W3C work in HTML5 yet
22:23:55 … I wanted to give him an intro and walk him through it
22:24:05 … I want to try and do that within the next week
22:24:26 … plus there are some other experts I know who I want to point to this
22:24:59 … including a few colleagues
22:25:00 action-32 due 19 May
22:25:00 ACTION-32 Follow up w/ Gunnar Hellstrom on comprehensiveness of secondary signed channel requirements due date now 19 May
22:25:14 action-34?
22:25:14 ACTION-34 -- Sean Hayes to write transcript requirements -- due 2010-05-12 -- OPEN
22:25:14 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/34
22:25:32 action-34: some work in http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/Accessibility_Requirements_of_Media
22:25:32 ACTION-34 Write transcript requirements notes added
22:25:35 Sean: I haven't been through formulating bullet points, but have done basic work
22:25:37 action-34 due 19 may
22:25:37 ACTION-34 Write transcript requirements due date now 19 may
22:25:39 … would like another week
22:25:44 action-35?
22:25:44 ACTION-35 -- Frank Olivier to write cues requirements -- due 2010-05-12 -- OPEN
22:25:44 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/35
22:25:56 Mike: don't think he's done it
22:26:02 … somebody should ping him
22:26:18 action-36?
22:26:18 ACTION-36 -- Janina Sajka to draft the message re date and media text spec to send to HTML WG -- due 2010-05-12 -- OPEN
22:26:18 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/36
22:26:25 Janina: done
22:26:32 close action-36
22:26:33 ACTION-36 Draft the message re date and media text spec to send to HTML WG closed
22:27:06 http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/20100513_cfc-websrt/results
22:27:27 … action complete by email and a call for concensus
22:27:31 action-36: see http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/20100513_cfc-websrt/results
22:27:31 ACTION-36 Draft the message re date and media text spec to send to HTML WG notes added
22:27:47 Judy: I have two gaps I want to mention
22:28:55 … 1. how much review have the requirements received from actual people with hearing or vision impairment?
22:29:04 -Kenny_Johar
22:29:13 … did the requirements list take into account requirements also for deaf-blind people?
22:29:37 Janina: I think we do because we specified a variety of alternatives and are not restricting channels
22:29:44 … people can pick two things at the same time
22:30:10 … it would be good though if somebody could double-check that
22:30:30 Michael: in the requirements document there are two sentences that directly address it
22:31:22 Judy: I'm not questioning whether we have individual requirements for this, but I'd like somebody who has real needs to actually cross-ceck for comprehensiveness
22:31:27 … I have somebody on mind
22:31:53 JF: I don't know anyone who would have real-world experience from that perspective, so if you have somebody at hand, that would be great
22:32:37 Judy: I'm hoping I can get somebody tomorrow - I will certainly try
22:33:11 Janina: I'd like to caution us on the issue of completeness - deaf-blind people have different requirements depending on whether they had hearing or visual loss first
22:33:34 Judy: 2. a cross-check I want to do with a JTC-1 requirements list
22:33:54 … I want to look at that
22:34:32 … Clayton Lewis, Uni Collorado, could be a good person to add for review
22:35:03 action: Judy to organize a cross-check on requirements with JTC-1 user needs repository
22:35:03 Created ACTION-42 - Organize a cross-check on requirements with JTC-1 user needs repository [on Judy Brewer - due 2010-05-19].
22:35:30 action: judy to seek deaf-blind representation in requirements gathering process
22:35:30 Created ACTION-43 - Seek deaf-blind representation in requirements gathering process [on Judy Brewer - due 2010-05-19].
22:35:35 Janina: we might be missing a cognitive dimension
22:36:06 … WCAG-2 - there is a requirement in Germany for having simple representations of Web pages
22:36:21 … we might want to have a simple (plain?) representation of text, too
22:36:44 Judy: any other gaps that occurred to people?
22:37:02 Janina: timescale modification - speed-up and slow-down
22:37:15 … I'll add it to the requirements list
22:37:37 Judy: have we covered acrhitectural requirements completely yet?
22:37:52 zakim, unmute me
22:37:52 Silvia should no longer be muted
22:37:59 +q
22:38:04 uaag draft has text re timescale modification. based on DAISY experience.
22:38:17 Janina: Philip is attending a meeting on web audio api, which should be relevant to us, too
22:39:47 silvia: I still must read it, sorry
22:40:11 zakim, mute me
22:40:11 Silvia should now be muted
22:40:48 silvia: I am slightly concerned about the free-text being hard to parse
22:41:19 (?): the list at the bottom has all the discrete requirements extracted - the top sets the scene
22:42:38 JF: the hardest thing will be to see which requirements go towards the time stamp format, which towards the presentation, which towards the html5 markup
22:42:56 Geoof
22:43:27 Geoff: I like what Sean did with creating a decent amount of context at the top before jumping into the requirements
22:44:16 Judy: that explanation is really useful - I was wondering if the discrete requirements should have come first and the detailed descriptions later
22:44:20 … but this seems good
22:44:48 Janina: it seems there is a lot of value in a good requirements document
22:45:12 Judy: I'm curious what makes it easier for each of us to look through the list
22:45:17 zakim, unmute me
22:45:17 Silvia should no longer be muted
22:45:42 … is anyone finding the current document numbing or has a suggestion to improve how to consume me
22:45:46 s/me/it/
22:47:09 JF: how do we capture the requirement for a time stamp format
22:47:57 Geoff: I think timing text and readability of a format are not quite relevant here
22:48:39 (?): it is a technical requirement to be able to update the screen quickly enough for good quality
22:48:46 … it is a technical as well as an authorial requiremnt
22:49:34 Judy: when I put requirements for other groups together, I've seen we had needs to motivating information
22:49:37 s/(?)/Sean
22:50:00 … we might need more background links
22:50:29 … do we want to plan for having motivating/explanatory information for the terse requiremnts?
22:50:37 … or is that too much additional work?
22:50:46 zakim, mute me
22:50:46 Silvia should now be muted
22:50:55 JF: I think it's getting too large already
22:51:28 mark has to go. bye
22:51:31 mhakkinen has left #html-a11y
22:52:29 … the range of speed is a technical details that we may not need to limit - the technical need for the browser is that we can speed up and slow down
22:53:24 Judy: it seems don't quite know where everything is going of our requirements - some into HTML5, some into a time stamp format, some maybe elsewhere
22:54:20 Janina: it is part of what we should advise the HTML5 WG on is where these requirements should be met - and what should in inside HTML5
22:55:01 … we may even find that existing specifications that address some requirements are incomplete, like when I found that pitch retaining was not covered for speed changes in HTML5
22:55:47 Judy: I have a proposal for how we can go through vetting our list
22:56:03 … how about one more week or requirement collection
22:56:11 -Mark_Hakkinen
22:56:21 … then cross-reviews with other technologies over the following 2 weeks maybe
22:56:48 … maybe we should do cross-vetting and completeness checks now already
22:57:02 JF: I think we should just do that - we need to get going
22:57:19 … a perpetual discussion on requirements is not going to make progress on the spec
22:57:40