12:39:57 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dap
12:39:57 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/05/12-dap-irc
12:39:59 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
12:39:59 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #dap
12:40:01 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be DAP
12:40:02 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
12:40:02 <trackbot> Meeting: Device APIs and Policy Working Group Teleconference
12:40:02 <trackbot> Date: 12 May 2010
12:40:08 <fjh> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010May/0044.html
12:40:41 <fjh> Regrets+ Claes_Nilsson, Jun_Liao, Marco_Marengo
12:40:45 <fjh> Chair: Frederick_Hirsch
12:40:55 <fjh> Present+ Frederick_Hirsch
13:34:51 <fjh> Regrets+  Robin_Berjon, Dom
13:42:16 <fjh> Topic: Administrative
13:57:16 <alissa> alissa has joined #dap
13:58:18 <LauraA> LauraA has joined #dap
13:58:31 <LauraA> present+ LauraA
13:59:01 <fjh> zakim,  who is here?
13:59:01 <Zakim> sorry, fjh, I don't know what conference this is
13:59:02 <Zakim> On IRC I see LauraA, alissa, Zakim, RRSAgent, tlr, maxf, arve, Marcos, fjh, ingmar, ilkka, shepazu, dom, trackbot
13:59:09 <fjh> zakim, this will be DAP
13:59:09 <Zakim> ok, fjh, I see UW_DAP()10:00AM already started
13:59:15 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
13:59:15 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P0
13:59:16 <Zakim> On IRC I see LauraA, alissa, Zakim, RRSAgent, tlr, maxf, arve, Marcos, fjh, ingmar, ilkka, shepazu, dom, trackbot
13:59:21 <fjh> zakim, ??P0 is me
13:59:21 <Zakim> +fjh; got it
13:59:23 <tlr> zakim, call thomas-781
13:59:23 <Zakim> ok, tlr; the call is being made
13:59:24 <Zakim> +Thomas
13:59:26 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
13:59:26 <Zakim> On the phone I see fjh, Thomas (muted)
13:59:27 <jmorris> jmorris has joined #dap
13:59:32 <Zakim> On IRC I see jmorris, LauraA, alissa, Zakim, RRSAgent, tlr, maxf, arve, Marcos, fjh, ingmar, ilkka, shepazu, dom, trackbot
13:59:34 <tlr> Present+ Thomas_Roessler
13:59:37 <ericanewland> ericanewland has joined #dap
13:59:41 <Zakim> + +1.202.436.aaaa
13:59:44 <tlr> zakim, I am thomas
13:59:44 <Zakim> ok, tlr, I now associate you with Thomas
13:59:46 <tlr> zakim, mute me
13:59:46 <Zakim> Thomas should now be muted
13:59:49 <Zakim> + +0777541aabb
13:59:52 <alissa> Present+ Alissa_Cooper
14:00:06 <ilkka> Present+ Ilkka_Oksanen
14:00:09 <Zakim> + +358.504.86aacc
14:00:14 <Zakim> + +1.301.581.aadd
14:00:18 <ericanewland> present+ enewland
14:00:24 <jmorris> Present+ John_Morris
14:00:28 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
14:00:28 <Zakim> On the phone I see fjh, Thomas (muted), +1.202.436.aaaa, +0777541aabb, +358.504.86aacc, +1.301.581.aadd
14:00:29 <AnssiK> AnssiK has joined #dap
14:00:30 <Zakim> On IRC I see ericanewland, jmorris, LauraA, alissa, Zakim, RRSAgent, tlr, maxf, arve, Marcos, fjh, ingmar, ilkka, shepazu, dom, trackbot
14:00:30 <LauraA> zakim, +0777541aabb is LauraA
14:00:30 <Zakim> +LauraA; got it
14:00:35 <Zakim> + +1.202.637.aaee
14:00:38 <jmorris> zakim, aadd is jmorris
14:00:38 <Zakim> +jmorris; got it
14:00:43 <ilkka> Zakim, aacc is ilkka
14:00:43 <Zakim> +ilkka; got it
14:00:45 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
14:00:45 <Zakim> On the phone I see fjh, Thomas (muted), +1.202.436.aaaa, LauraA, ilkka, jmorris, +1.202.637.aaee
14:00:48 <Zakim> On IRC I see AnssiK, ericanewland, jmorris, LauraA, alissa, Zakim, RRSAgent, tlr, maxf, arve, Marcos, fjh, ingmar, ilkka, shepazu, dom, trackbot
14:00:55 <ericanewland> zakim, .aaee is enewland
14:00:55 <Zakim> sorry, ericanewland, I do not recognize a party named '.aaee'
14:01:15 <Zakim> + +035850486aaff
14:01:16 <AnssiK> Present+ Anssi_Kostiainen
14:01:18 <jmorris> zakim, aaee is enewland
14:01:18 <Zakim> +enewland; got it
14:01:19 <alissa> zakim, +1.202.436.aaa is alissa
14:01:19 <Zakim> +alissa; got it
14:01:23 <AnssiK> zakim, aaff is AnssiK
14:01:23 <Zakim> +AnssiK; got it
14:01:27 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
14:01:27 <Zakim> On the phone I see fjh, Thomas (muted), alissa, LauraA, ilkka, jmorris, enewland, AnssiK
14:01:29 <Zakim> On IRC I see AnssiK, ericanewland, jmorris, LauraA, alissa, Zakim, RRSAgent, tlr, maxf, arve, Marcos, fjh, ingmar, ilkka, shepazu, dom, trackbot
14:01:36 <Dzung_Tran> Dzung_Tran has joined #dap
14:01:41 <Dzung_Tran> Present+ Dzung_Tran
14:02:06 <paddy> paddy has joined #dap
14:02:08 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
14:02:08 <Zakim> On the phone I see fjh, Thomas (muted), alissa, LauraA, ilkka, jmorris, enewland, AnssiK
14:02:11 <Zakim> On IRC I see paddy, Dzung_Tran, AnssiK, ericanewland, jmorris, LauraA, alissa, Zakim, RRSAgent, tlr, maxf, arve, Marcos, fjh, ingmar, ilkka, shepazu, dom, trackbot
14:02:40 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
14:02:40 <Zakim> On the phone I see fjh, Thomas (muted), alissa, LauraA, ilkka, jmorris, enewland, AnssiK
14:02:42 <Zakim> On IRC I see paddy, Dzung_Tran, AnssiK, ericanewland, jmorris, LauraA, alissa, Zakim, RRSAgent, tlr, maxf, arve, Marcos, fjh, ingmar, ilkka, shepazu, dom, trackbot
14:03:00 <jmorris> scribenick jmorris
14:03:03 <fjh> ScribeNick: jmorris
14:03:11 <ericanewland> zakim, ericanewland is enewland
14:03:11 <Zakim> sorry, ericanewland, I do not recognize a party named 'ericanewland'
14:03:11 <fjh> s/scribenick jmorris//
14:03:17 <Zakim> +Ingmar_Kliche
14:03:31 <Zakim> +??P16
14:03:34 <Zakim> -??P16
14:03:36 <ingmar> Present+ Ingmar_Kliche
14:04:08 <jmorris> fjh: agenda review
14:04:09 <Zakim> +??P16
14:04:28 <paddy> present+ Paddy_Byers
14:04:41 <fjh> zakim, ??P16 is paddy
14:04:41 <Zakim> +paddy; got it
14:05:27 <shlee> shlee has joined #dap
14:05:35 <fjh> Topic: Minutes Approval
14:05:39 <fjh> 5 May 2010
14:05:44 <shlee> Present+ Soonho_Lee
14:05:50 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010May/att-0014/minutes-2010-05-05.html
14:06:21 <jmorris> RESOLUTION:  5 May 2010 Minutes approved
14:06:31 <jmorris> TOPIC:  Policy framework
14:06:39 <fjh> http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/policy/
14:06:46 <bryan_sullivan> bryan_sullivan has joined #dap
14:07:03 <jmorris> fjh: we have general agreement on trust domains being done explicitly
14:07:33 <jmorris> ... asking paddy on agreement with this
14:07:55 <jmorris> paddy:  yes
14:08:01 <bryan_sullivan> Present+ Bryan_Sullivan
14:08:15 <jmorris> ... target in nokia model is the trust domain
14:08:28 <jmorris> ... we separate out trust domain from rest of document
14:08:52 <jmorris> ... some cases we have to work through
14:09:07 <Zakim> +Bryan_Sullivan
14:09:20 <LauraA> q+
14:09:30 <jmorris> fjh: lots of benefit about being explicit about trust domains
14:09:55 <jmorris> ... being explicit will enable simplification
14:10:08 <jmorris> ... like to suggest formal resolution
14:10:16 <tlr> q?
14:10:30 <fjh> ack laura
14:10:35 <fjh> ack LauraA
14:10:40 <bryan_sullivan> q+
14:11:04 <richt> richt has joined #dap
14:11:32 <Zakim> + +0797352aagg
14:11:34 <jmorris> fjh: proposing resolution: We will use explicit trust domains in the policy framework
14:12:06 <jmorris> paddy:  responding to question from Laura
14:12:43 <richt> Present+ Richard_Tibbett
14:12:44 <jmorris> ... for useful cases, one can mechanically convert one expression from another
14:12:50 <fjh> s/responding to question from Laura/notes that XACML policy epxressions can be refactored
14:12:58 <fjh> s/epxressions/expressions/
14:13:10 <jmorris> LauraA:  we would name a policy set for a trust domain and within domain
14:13:20 <jmorris> ... we can have individual policies?
14:13:42 <jmorris> paddy:  to be able to express the same things ...
14:13:55 <jmorris> ... in BONDI you can have multiple targets
14:14:13 <jmorris> ... you must be able to define the same thing in different trust domains
14:14:31 <jmorris> ... all of the things you can do with a BONDI policy, you must also be able to do for a trust domain
14:14:51 <jmorris> ... principle of separating def. of target and def. of rules is possible
14:15:15 <jmorris> ... when you write trust domains, you have to have the same functionality as with BONDI
14:15:30 <jmorris> fjh: this may be an 80/20 situation, where you do not meet this
14:15:40 <jmorris> ... good to identify the 20 percent
14:15:55 <jmorris> paddy:  Agree we should look at use cases
14:16:10 <fjh> ack bryan
14:16:23 <jmorris> bryan:  clarification on wording
14:16:39 <jmorris> ... don't you mean the ability to define explicit trust domains
14:16:53 <jmorris> fjh:  there must be a trust domain
14:17:21 <jmorris> bryan:  might the absence of an explicit domain imply an implicit trust default domain
14:17:28 <jmorris> fjh: we might be able to accommodate this
14:17:41 <jmorris> ... we might be able to pre-define some trust domains
14:17:57 <jmorris> ... if you don't know what trust domain, then "untrusted"
14:18:33 <jmorris> bryan:  we are not defining trust domains themselves
14:18:45 <jmorris> ... we are defining ability to define t.d.s
14:19:06 <jmorris> ... not talking about "home" "work"
14:19:17 <jmorris> ... we are not just trying to define a set
14:19:23 <bryan_sullivan> q-
14:20:05 <jmorris> paddy:  goal is to separate target from rules
14:20:17 <fjh> proposed RESOLUTION: make trust domain model an explicit and separate part of policy framework 
14:20:25 <jmorris> ... we also may identify some well known trust domains
14:21:08 <jmorris> RESOLUTION: WG will make trust domain model an explicit and separate part of policy framework
14:21:43 <jmorris> fjh:  referring to earlier comment by LauraA
14:21:59 <jmorris> ... suggest we take schema material in separate document
14:22:02 <LauraA> q+
14:22:10 <fjh> ack LauraA
14:22:17 <bryan_sullivan> +1
14:22:49 <jmorris> LauraA:  some of sections suggested to go under framework already have features of profiling
14:22:52 <fjh> suggest separation, see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010May/0052.html
14:23:05 <jmorris> ... not 100% clean separation between those two schemes
14:23:28 <jmorris> ... 3.3 to 3.5 for example are already part of naming of GML? language
14:24:04 <jmorris> fjh: there is some overlap but want to take a pass on separating model
14:24:26 <jmorris> paddy:  the source of the bondi document had the model in two separate parts
14:24:48 <jmorris> ... there is a dictionary that is shared
14:25:03 <jmorris> fjh: can you do more editorial work?
14:25:26 <jmorris> LauraA: okay but good if someone can help 
14:26:07 <jmorris> possible ACTION:  LauraA to work on framework document to inject more separation
14:26:34 <jmorris> LauraA:  your e-mail to simplify flows
14:26:58 <jmorris> ... is fjh's suggestion  to take nokia's flows and simplify
14:27:15 <jmorris> fjh: where can we simply if possible
14:27:29 <jmorris> ... we have a model with lots of features, but can we simplify
14:27:47 <jmorris> ... we will get more adoption if simpler
14:28:08 <jmorris> ... if you nokia one
14:28:24 <jmorris> send message to list for seek on help on particular sections
14:29:08 <bryan_sullivan> if Laura needs help on a specific section or subject I can take the request by email and will provide some text
14:29:09 <jmorris> ... may have existing action
14:29:25 <fjh> ACTION-152?
14:29:25 <trackbot> ACTION-152 -- Laura Arribas to edit policy framework, reviewing BONDI material and editorial update -- due 2010-05-05 -- OPEN
14:29:25 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/152
14:29:29 <jmorris> LauraA:  I can keep working on ACTION-152
14:29:48 <jmorris> fjh: we can work on the list on this
14:29:57 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010May/0038.html
14:30:04 <jmorris> ... claus also had a message
14:30:11 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
14:30:11 <Zakim> On the phone I see fjh, Thomas (muted), alissa, LauraA, ilkka, jmorris, enewland, AnssiK, Ingmar_Kliche, paddy, Bryan_Sullivan, richt
14:30:13 <Zakim> On IRC I see richt, bryan_sullivan, shlee, paddy, Dzung_Tran, AnssiK, ericanewland, jmorris, LauraA, alissa, Zakim, RRSAgent, tlr, maxf, arve, Marcos, fjh, ingmar, ilkka, shepazu,
14:30:15 <Zakim> ... dom, trackbot
14:30:16 <jmorris> ... he is saying that there is work to be done
14:30:43 <jmorris> paddy:  my take on that is that we need to be sure to have the right set of attributes to define the widget or whateve
14:30:46 <fjh> ACTION-45?
14:30:46 <trackbot> ACTION-45 -- David Rogers to provide use case with threat model scenarios -- due 2010-03-16 -- OPEN
14:30:46 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/45
14:30:48 <jmorris> s/eve/ever/
14:30:55 <fjh> ACTION-104?
14:30:55 <trackbot> ACTION-104 -- David Rogers to add use case related to ISSUE-37 -- due 2010-03-17 -- OPEN
14:30:55 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/104
14:31:00 <fjh> ACTION-145?
14:31:00 <trackbot> ACTION-145 -- Bryan Sullivan to provide an architectural flow for Policy Reqs -- due 2010-03-25 -- OPEN
14:31:00 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/145
14:31:07 <jmorris> fjh: looking at actions
14:31:44 <jmorris> TOPIC:  Policy requirements
14:31:49 <fjh> ACTION-166?
14:31:49 <trackbot> ACTION-166 -- Frederick Hirsch to review policy requirements and propose changes -- due 2010-05-05 -- OPEN
14:31:49 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/166
14:31:53 <jmorris> fjh:  I will look at them this week
14:31:57 <fjh> ACTION-167?
14:31:57 <trackbot> ACTION-167 -- Dominique Hazaël-Massieux to make a concrete proposal for policy framework based on his comments http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Apr/0030.html -- due 2010-05-19 -- OPEN
14:31:57 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/167
14:32:19 <jmorris> TOPIC:  Privacy
14:32:38 <jmorris> fjh:  I noticed paper re P3P trying to come up with labels
14:32:57 <jmorris> alissa: it is cited in ruleset document
14:33:07 <tlr> pointer?
14:33:11 <jmorris> fjh:  nothing more on privacy right now?
14:33:35 <jmorris> alissa:  still waiting for ruleset attributes are mutually exclusive
14:33:44 <jmorris> ... robin has this question
14:33:58 <alissa> http://cups.cs.cmu.edu/soups/2009/proceedings/a4-kelley.pdf
14:34:03 <jmorris> ... conversation on list re mutual exclusivity
14:34:09 <jmorris> ... waiting for response
14:34:18 <jmorris> TOPIC:  Sysinfo
14:34:31 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010May/0015.html 
14:34:43 <jmorris> fjh:  next week we will decide on call whether to go to last call
14:34:51 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
14:34:51 <Zakim> On the phone I see fjh, Thomas (muted), alissa, LauraA, ilkka, jmorris, enewland, AnssiK, Ingmar_Kliche, paddy, Bryan_Sullivan, richt
14:34:53 <Zakim> On IRC I see richt, bryan_sullivan, shlee, paddy, Dzung_Tran, AnssiK, ericanewland, jmorris, LauraA, alissa, Zakim, RRSAgent, tlr, maxf, arve, Marcos, fjh, ingmar, ilkka, shepazu,
14:34:55 <Zakim> ... dom, trackbot
14:35:06 <jmorris> ... bunch of issues
14:35:15 <jmorris> ... mohammed had comments, max dealt with them
14:35:21 <jmorris> ... jonas had comment
14:35:45 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010May/0029.html
14:35:46 <jmorris> ... naming issue got resolved
14:36:03 <jmorris> ... we need to be sure we are ready for last call
14:36:06 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010May/0026.html
14:36:21 <jmorris> ... maxf resolved timeless issues
14:36:28 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010May/0017.html
14:36:41 <jmorris> ... one issue to discuss: jonas how data is to be used
14:36:54 <jmorris> ... we need to respond ... this is open
14:36:58 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010May/0039.html
14:37:11 <jmorris> ... second open issue is what is motivation to having some much data
14:37:33 <jmorris> ... this is a minimization things, we are trying to deal with this
14:37:46 <jmorris> ... we might want to fix the privacy stuff up some
14:37:49 <fjh> ACTION-58?
14:37:49 <trackbot> ACTION-58 -- Bryan Sullivan to make a concrete proposal with a vocabulary-based approach to system & events, with a few examples (e.g. battery level) -- due 2009-11-11 -- OPEN
14:37:49 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/58
14:38:10 <fjh> ACTION-116?
14:38:10 <trackbot> ACTION-116 -- Bryan Sullivan to provide input on DCO mapping for SysInfo -- due 2010-03-24 -- OPEN
14:38:10 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/116
14:38:10 <jmorris> ... we need to really get it ready 
14:38:40 <fjh> action-58: bryan notes sysinfo api facilitates this now
14:38:40 <trackbot> ACTION-58 Make a concrete proposal with a vocabulary-based approach to system & events, with a few examples (e.g. battery level) notes added
14:38:47 <jmorris> bryan:  this has been addressed
14:38:48 <fjh> action-58 closed
14:38:48 <trackbot> ACTION-58 Make a concrete proposal with a vocabulary-based approach to system & events, with a few examples (e.g. battery level) closed
14:39:10 <jmorris> fjh: looking at ACTION-116
14:39:17 <jmorris> bryan:  this is done
14:39:18 <alissa> q+
14:39:20 <fjh> action-116 closed
14:39:20 <trackbot> ACTION-116 Provide input on DCO mapping for SysInfo closed
14:39:25 <fjh> ack alissa
14:39:28 <jmorris> ... mapping on explicit options in API
14:39:53 <fjh> action-162?
14:39:53 <trackbot> ACTION-162 -- Robin Berjon to make SysInfo ready for pub -- due 2010-04-21 -- OPEN
14:39:53 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/162
14:39:54 <jmorris> alissa:  I proposed temporary language for all APIs re privacy framework
14:40:00 <fjh> action-169?
14:40:00 <trackbot> ACTION-169 -- Frederick Hirsch to insert temporary privacy language into the APIs. -- due 2010-05-05 -- OPEN
14:40:00 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/169
14:40:02 <jmorris> ... this might help jonas
14:40:30 <jmorris> fjh: uncomfortable to blast away exisiting text
14:40:49 <jmorris> ... so it would good for individual editors to add this text
14:41:06 <jmorris> s/exisit/exist/
14:41:22 <jmorris> ... richard, maybe can you work on this
14:41:35 <jmorris> ... alissa sent language to the list
14:42:08 <alissa> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Apr/0086.html
14:42:51 <jmorris> fjh:  real issue is making sure that maxf's conclusion on these threads is complete
14:42:56 <jmorris> ... we are close on last call
14:43:07 <jmorris> ... that is all on Sysinfo
14:43:13 <fjh> action: fjh to confirm status of sysinfo comment handling with max, and add privacy text
14:43:14 <trackbot> Created ACTION-172 - Confirm status of sysinfo comment handling with max, and add privacy text [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2010-05-19].
14:43:43 <jmorris> fjh:  other topics??  messaging?
14:44:03 <fjh> Topic: contacts, calendar
14:44:10 <fjh> on the list
14:44:13 <jmorris> richt: I am still catching up and will go to list
14:44:29 <jmorris> fjh:  anything we should discuss now?
14:45:00 <jmorris> someone:  parameter passing discussion?
14:45:12 <jmorris> fjh: do not want to decide without robin
14:45:23 <jmorris> ... might be better on list
14:45:46 <jmorris> ... wrapping up
14:45:57 <richt> s/someone:/richt:
14:46:07 <jmorris> ... all editors - please look at privacy text
14:46:15 <Zakim> -Thomas
14:46:16 <Zakim> -alissa
14:46:18 <Zakim> -enewland
14:46:18 <Zakim> -AnssiK
14:46:20 <richt> richt has left #dap
14:46:20 <Zakim> -Bryan_Sullivan
14:46:22 <Zakim> -ilkka
14:46:24 <Zakim> -richt
14:46:27 <Zakim> -LauraA
14:46:28 <Zakim> -jmorris
14:46:29 <fjh> rrsagent, generate minutes
14:46:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/12-dap-minutes.html fjh
14:46:37 <Zakim> -fjh
14:46:41 <Zakim> -paddy
14:46:48 <Zakim> -Ingmar_Kliche
14:46:49 <Zakim> UW_DAP()10:00AM has ended
14:46:50 <Zakim> Attendees were fjh, Thomas, +1.202.436.aaaa, +358.504.86aacc, +1.301.581.aadd, LauraA, +1.202.637.aaee, jmorris, ilkka, +035850486aaff, enewland, alissa, AnssiK, Ingmar_Kliche,
14:46:53 <Zakim> ... paddy, Bryan_Sullivan, richt
16:54:22 <Zakim> Zakim has left #dap
17:22:39 <shepazu> shepazu has joined #dap
17:39:38 <shepazu> shepazu has joined #dap