18:55:10 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria
18:55:10 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/05/11-aria-irc
18:55:15 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make log world
18:55:41 <MichaelC> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010May/0103.html
19:01:16 <janina> janina has joined #aria
19:01:25 <janina> zakim, call janina
19:01:25 <Zakim> ok, janina; the call is being made
19:01:26 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(Aria)3:00PM has now started
19:01:27 <Zakim> +Janina
19:01:48 <Zakim> +??P0
19:02:08 <richardschwerdtfe> richardschwerdtfe has joined #aria
19:02:19 <Stevef> Stevef has joined #aria
19:02:32 <janina> zakim, who is on the phone?
19:02:32 <Zakim> On the phone I see Janina, ??P0
19:02:36 <Zakim> +Rich
19:02:51 <janina> zakim, p0 is steve
19:02:51 <Zakim> sorry, janina, I do not recognize a party named 'p0'
19:04:02 <Zakim> +Michael_Cooper
19:05:46 <MichaelC> -> http://www.w3.org/2010/05/04-aria-minutes Last week's minutes
19:06:49 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
19:07:08 <MichaelC> -> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/products/3 ARIA mapping issues and actions
19:07:24 <cshelly> cshelly has joined #aria
19:07:27 <MichaelC> zakim, IPcaller is Cynthia_Shelly
19:07:27 <Zakim> +Cynthia_Shelly; got it
19:07:48 <cshelly> url for actions?
19:08:55 <MichaelC> action-39: duplicate of action-38
19:08:57 <MichaelC> close action-39
19:11:41 <MichaelC> action-2: superseded by the creation of the ARIA mapping sub-group
19:11:46 <MichaelC> close action-2
19:15:40 <MichaelC> scribe: janina
19:15:45 <MichaelC> chair: Steve_Faulkner
19:15:47 <janina>  scribe: janina
19:16:09 <MichaelC> meeting: ARIA mapping group - HTML A11Y TF
19:17:08 <janina> general discussion trying to achieve clarity on our actions
19:18:25 <janina> http://www.w3.org/2010/05/04-aria-minutes
19:20:01 <janina> sf: the current (modified) mapping doc is roughly this
19:20:08 <janina> sf: understand we need a rationale
19:20:30 <janina> cs: let's look at the role categories -- where's the table?
19:21:03 <cshelly> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria/roles#roles_categorization
19:22:36 <janina> cs: looking at this link is descendent of widget, should it be overwritable by any widget?
19:23:15 <janina> sf: somewhat confused ... command is also subclass of widget
19:23:40 <davidb> regrets, I am IRC only for now
19:24:17 <janina> cs: pieces of a slider often made of links, but not the slider itself ...
19:24:31 <janina> cs: is it inputs that are not also composites?
19:25:16 <janina> sf: spinbutton is subclass of range ... trying to follow the text because can't follow the chart
19:25:52 <janina> cs: buttons, list items, and menu items, and tree items most link users
19:26:40 <janina> cs: does turning a link into a checkbox make sense?
19:26:49 <janina> sf: seen it being done
19:27:03 <janina> sf: looking for an example
19:28:06 <janina> sf: aren't we just going to define by mapping
19:28:53 <janina> cs: so it's buttons and options?
19:29:05 <janina> rs: anything activatable -- so not grid
19:30:23 <janina> mc: i updated taxonomy last week, some where hard to graph
19:30:26 <cshelly> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria/rdf_model
19:33:11 <richardschwerdtfe> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria/rdf_model.svg
19:35:31 <janina> cs: link is a command--so we can say all commands can replace each other
19:35:33 <janina> agreement
19:36:04 <janina> cs: so, links can be turned into commands and ranges
19:36:06 <janina> agreement
19:36:38 <janina> sf: thumb displaying the range isn't marked with a role, is it?
19:37:02 <janina> sf: usually slider is a container element
19:37:33 <janina> cs: it's clearer that commands are the same
19:37:40 <janina> cs: range does seem very different
19:37:56 <janina> cs: can't say i've seen a lot of this
19:38:16 <janina> rs: not difficult
19:38:52 <janina> cs: can menu items?
19:39:24 <janina> rs: suppose
19:39:33 <janina> cs: doesn't seem to make sense
19:39:42 <janina> rs: perhaps a spinbutton
19:39:59 <janina> cs: but ht5 already has
19:40:05 <janina> rs: but as a range item
19:40:19 <janina> rs: could have a menu item with a slider in it
19:41:33 <cshelly> Commands can all replace each other
19:42:22 <cshelly> buttons and links are special cased.  they can be replaced by ranges which are not composites
19:42:32 <janina> rrsagent, make minutes
19:42:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/11-aria-minutes.html janina
19:44:34 <cshelly> commands=link, button, menuitem, menuitemcheckbox, treeitem, menuitemradio
19:44:40 <janina> above from cs appears to be group consensus
19:44:57 <janina> further checking via the diagram
19:45:24 <janina> mc: explaining uml convention where arrow points to parent
19:45:45 <cshelly> ranges that are not composites = progressbar, slider, scrollbar
19:46:30 <janina> mc: another internal convention is that all roles are in rows
19:46:38 <janina> mc: anything below is descendent
19:47:09 <janina> cs: option is a command in ht5,
19:47:15 <janina> mc: but not here ...
19:48:17 <janina> cs: suggest: any role can be overwritten by a descendent
19:48:38 <janina> mc: should one of our best design patterns
19:48:50 <janina> cs: a bp or this doc
19:48:52 <janina> mc: both
19:49:32 <janina> cs: suggest: div and span can be overwritten by anything
19:49:39 <janina> sf: take that for granted
19:49:45 <janina> janina: never take rocks for granite
19:50:06 <janina> general agreement
19:50:12 <janina> cs; inputs are trickier ...
19:50:28 <janina> cs: options often overwritten by menu item
19:50:39 <janina> cs: expect ht5 to do that automagically
19:52:25 <janina> sf: inputs in ref to command?
19:52:31 <janina> cs: looking at taxonomy
19:52:41 <janina> cs: not reasonable to say all inputs can overwrite each other
19:52:59 <janina> sf: what about tree item
19:53:02 <janina> cs: not a command
19:53:08 <janina> cs: it's a list item
19:54:07 <janina> cs: so three decisions -- and if we see this doesn't work, probably a taxonomy error
19:54:12 <janina> sf: sounds good
19:54:23 <janina> cs: so next week i'm due for a draft
19:54:26 <janina> sf: yes, all of us
19:54:36 <janina> sf: rich, cyns, and steve
19:54:44 <janina> rs: i'm out next week
19:54:59 <janina> cs: should discuss input or my deliverable
19:55:11 <janina> cs: which is best?
19:55:58 <janina> cs: maybe inputs, ranges and some coposite for next week
19:57:22 <Zakim> -Rich
20:00:08 <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
20:02:46 <cyns> cyns has joined #aria
20:02:47 <cyns> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=9326
20:09:05 <Zakim> -Janina
20:09:07 <Zakim> -Steve_Faulkner
20:09:16 <janina> zakim, bye
20:09:16 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were Janina, Rich, Steve_Faulkner, Michael_Cooper, Cynthia_Shelly
20:09:16 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aria
20:09:24 <janina> rrsagent, make minutes
20:09:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/11-aria-minutes.html janina