16:40:48 RRSAgent has joined #ua 16:40:48 logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/05/06-ua-irc 16:40:50 RRSAgent, make logs public 16:40:50 Zakim has joined #ua 16:40:52 Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG 16:40:52 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 20 minutes 16:40:53 Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference 16:40:53 Date: 06 May 2010 16:44:31 Agenda+ Survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100427/ 16:44:33 Agenda+ inviting Chrome to meeting 16:44:34 Agenda+ 4.7.x Location in Hierarchy http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2010AprJun/0021.html 16:44:36 Agenda+ Comments on last public working draft 16:44:38 Agenda+ Reminder about mail to list for action items - please include action item numbers 16:44:39 Agenda+ HTML 5 and the user agent 16:58:14 Greg has joined #ua 16:59:40 sharper has joined #ua 16:59:56 zakim, code? 16:59:56 the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), sharper 17:00:03 jeanne has joined #ua 17:00:38 WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started 17:00:45 + +1.512.206.aaaa 17:00:54 Chair: Jim_Allan 17:01:15 zakim, aaaa is really allanj 17:01:15 +allanj; got it 17:01:22 + +1.425.895.aabb 17:01:35 +[Microsoft] 17:01:38 zakim, code? 17:01:38 the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), jeanne 17:01:46 zakim, aabb is really Greg 17:01:46 +Greg; got it 17:01:53 +??P7 17:01:55 zakim, ??P7 is sharper 17:01:59 +sharper; got it 17:02:05 +Jeanne 17:02:14 zakim, [Microsoft] is really kford 17:02:17 +kford; got it 17:03:21 KimPatch has joined #ua 17:03:30 + +1.617.325.aacc 17:04:10 zakim, aacc is really kimpatch 17:04:11 +kimpatch; got it 17:05:25 scribe: greg 17:05:38 zakim, agenda 17:05:38 I don't understand 'agenda', AllanJ 17:05:43 zakim, agenda? 17:05:43 I see 6 items remaining on the agenda: 17:05:44 1. Survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100427/ [from AllanJ] 17:05:47 2. inviting Chrome to meeting [from AllanJ] 17:05:49 3. 4.7.x Location in Hierarchy http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2010AprJun/0021.html [from AllanJ] 17:05:53 4. Comments on last public working draft [from AllanJ] 17:05:54 5. Reminder about mail to list for action items - please include action item numbers [from AllanJ] 17:05:57 6. HTML 5 and the user agent [from AllanJ] 17:06:04 zakim, close item 1 17:06:04 agendum 1, Survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100427/, closed 17:06:06 I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 17:06:07 2. inviting Chrome to meeting [from AllanJ] 17:06:58 As Simon reported in email, a representative from Chrome is willing to participate but has a conflict during our scheduled conference calls. 17:07:49 +[IPcaller] 17:07:54 zakim, open item 2 17:07:54 agendum 2. "inviting Chrome to meeting" taken up [from AllanJ] 17:08:29 mhakkinen has joined #ua 17:09:38 zakim, IPcaller is really mhakkinen 17:09:38 +mhakkinen; got it 17:10:00 The Chrome representative is Jonas Klink, who is based out of California. 17:10:10 Discussion of possibility of rescheduling our conference calls to accommodate Jonas. 17:13:42 Zakim, close item 2 17:13:42 agendum 2, inviting Chrome to meeting, closed 17:13:43 I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 17:13:45 3. 4.7.x Location in Hierarchy http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2010AprJun/0021.html [from AllanJ] 17:14:01 zakim, open item 6 17:14:01 agendum 6. "HTML 5 and the user agent" taken up [from AllanJ] 17:14:59 Jim reports that the HTML5 Accessibility Task Force had a lot of discussion about what user agents do and might do. 17:15:22 Email from Mark and Jim to the task force got a lot of discussion going. 17:16:34 Some people on the task force do not understand the inherent problem of many authors creating custom controls, rather than using standardized controls inherent in the browser. 17:17:26 We need to provide them with good use cases demonstrating the importance of keyboard access. 17:17:32 kford has joined #ua 17:18:47 Kim described speech input users who use assistive technology that does input as a keyboard emulator rather than through an accessibility API. 17:20:02 This approach of keyboard emulation uses of existing knowledge, keeps a common language, etc. 17:22:48 W3 is holding a brainstorming session where papers are presented and discussed. One is coming up on keyboard access, and Judy Brewer suggested WAI being involved. 17:23:34 Kim submitted a proposal to present on real-world use cases. 17:24:04 These would be centered around speech input users. 17:28:27 The topic of the meeting is "W3C Workshop on conversational applications, use cases and requirements for new models of human language to support mobile conversational systems". 17:29:05 W3C Workshop on Conversational Applications http://www.w3.org/2010/02/convapps/cfp 17:31:22 There is also another workshop coming up on augmented reality. 17:31:42 Wow! Can I have that one? 17:32:38 kford has joined #ua 17:33:47 Simon reports that Jonas Klink of Chrome will join our conference call on May 20. 17:33:48 /me Simon ask him if the AT support update is out by chance? 17:35:09 zakim, close this 17:35:09 I don't understand 'close this', AllanJ 17:35:12 Agend item next week, prep for Chrome visit on 5/20. 17:35:20 zakim, close item 6 17:35:20 agendum 6, HTML 5 and the user agent, closed 17:35:21 I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 17:35:23 3. 4.7.x Location in Hierarchy http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2010AprJun/0021.html [from AllanJ] 17:35:41 zakim, adenda? 17:35:41 I don't understand your question, AllanJ. 17:35:47 zakim, agenda? 17:35:47 I see 3 items remaining on the agenda: 17:35:48 3. 4.7.x Location in Hierarchy http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2010AprJun/0021.html [from AllanJ] 17:35:50 4. Comments on last public working draft [from AllanJ] 17:35:52 5. Reminder about mail to list for action items - please include action item numbers [from AllanJ] 17:36:57 zakim, open next 17:36:57 agendum 3. "4.7.x Location in Hierarchy http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2010AprJun/0021.html" taken up [from AllanJ] 17:39:29 related to action-338 17:40:09 also related to action-345 17:40:26 Simon says it was ACTION-345 which refers to the original number of 3.3.2 17:41:23 gl: what is the plan for moving forward on this 17:41:45 ,y mute button is broke 17:41:53 touch screen phone 17:42:00 !!!!! 17:42:56 Simon notes there were many responses on the survey and in email. 17:43:36 Decision was made in April to move 3.3.2 to 4.7; now Simon's is a draft rewrite. 17:45:23 http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100406/ 17:49:36 discussion of ANSI and ISO, 4.7.x is unique, the concept it represents does not exist in ANSI, ISO 17:49:45 Greg noted that this is an example of something new, with no equivalents in ISO 9241-171 and ANSI 200.2. 17:53:21 Simon notes the person in charge of interaction domain says decentralized accessibility is important and will move forward, contrary to earlier indications. 17:55:43 -Greg 17:55:50 Scribe: KFord 17:57:37 Simon: We need to mitigate against this decentralized accessibility is to make relationship explicit to the access technology. 17:58:03 MH: Sounds like a perfect case for ARIA. 17:58:41 MH: I think ARIA is implied by the fact that the content needs to provide basic role and description info. 17:59:07 MH: This is either by using an existing element or if you are using somethinng new adding ARIA. 17:59:41 MH: I agree this needs to be explicit and made clear in the techniques. 18:00:11 JA: Simon it sounds like you are asking for a JavaScript API to communicate with the accessibility API. 18:00:49 rrsagent, amke minutes 18:00:49 I'm logging. I don't understand 'amke minutes', kford. Try /msg RRSAgent help 18:00:58 rrsagent, make minutes 18:00:58 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/06-ua-minutes.html kford 18:01:22 JA: Head spinning on implications of some of this. 18:02:41 http://www.w3.org/2010/Talks/0430-www2010-plh/decen.html 18:02:51 Simon: I think we need some space in the agenda to brain storm and think about all of this. 18:03:42 JA and JS talking about getting people from this space to talk. JS to take point. 18:04:26 action: jeanne to talk to Dave Raggett and/or PLH about speaking to UAWG on Decentralized Extensibility to help us craft success criteria for this. 18:04:26 Created ACTION-383 - Talk to Dave Raggett and/or PLH about speaking to UAWG on Decentralized Extensibility to help us craft success criteria for this. [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-05-13]. 18:07:14 rrsagent, make minutes 18:07:14 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/06-ua-minutes.html kford 18:08:08 Group talks more about this issue and what it means. 18:10:26 whatever the author does somehow the roles, states, models, etc must be made explicit to the accessibility api 18:11:21 +q 18:11:53 JA: This seems like XML but people don't want to write XML. 18:11:59 ack 18:12:06 ack mhakkinen 18:12:43 MH: I think back to something we did in daisy. The key is that someone, ideally the origianl author, has to provide human readable labels for this. 18:13:12 need extensible ARIA 18:13:28 JA: ARIA happens in the browser right? 18:13:35 MH: Yes. 18:15:50 the author creates some new tag and behaviour, the author should be made to write aria extension, so the proper information is written to the accessibility API 18:17:24 Group talking more about implications here. 18:19:37 action: ja to review extensible aria, decentralized extensibility and guidleline 2 18:19:37 Created ACTION-384 - Review extensible aria, decentralized extensibility and guidleline 2 [on Jim Allan - due 2010-05-13]. 18:20:12 rrsagent, make minutes 18:20:12 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/06-ua-minutes.html kford 18:20:36 zakim agenda ? 18:20:52 zakim, agenda? 18:20:52 I see 3 items remaining on the agenda: 18:20:54 3. 4.7.x Location in Hierarchy http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2010AprJun/0021.html [from AllanJ] 18:20:57 4. Comments on last public working draft [from AllanJ] 18:20:59 5. Reminder about mail to list for action items - please include action item numbers [from AllanJ] 18:21:16 zakim, take up item 5 18:21:16 agendum 5. "Reminder about mail to list for action items - please include action item numbers" taken up [from AllanJ] 18:21:35 JA reminds about syntax to send to list for actions. 18:21:42 zakim, close item 5 18:21:42 agendum 5, Reminder about mail to list for action items - please include action item numbers, closed 18:21:45 I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 18:21:47 3. 4.7.x Location in Hierarchy http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2010AprJun/0021.html [from AllanJ] 18:22:45 rrsagent, make minutes 18:22:45 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/06-ua-minutes.html kford 18:26:15 -mhakkinen 18:26:17 -kford 18:26:18 -sharper 18:26:19 -allanj 18:26:19 -kimpatch 18:26:44 -Jeanne 18:26:45 WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has ended 18:26:47 Attendees were +1.512.206.aaaa, allanj, +1.425.895.aabb, Greg, sharper, Jeanne, kford, +1.617.325.aacc, kimpatch, mhakkinen 18:27:50 zakim, please part 18:27:50 Zakim has left #ua 18:28:21 present: Jim, Kelly, Greg, Jeanne, Simon, Mark, Kim 18:28:38 rrsagent, make minutes 18:28:38 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/06-ua-minutes.html AllanJ 18:30:50 action: Jeanne to add item to survey - simon propose wording for 4.7x (formerly 3.3.2) 4.7.x Location in Hierarchy: The user can view the path of nodes leading 18:30:51 Created ACTION-385 - Add item to survey - simon propose wording for 4.7x (formerly 3.3.2) 4.7.x Location in Hierarchy: The user can view the path of nodes leading [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-05-13]. 18:30:52 from the root of any content hierarchy in which the structure and 18:30:53 semantics are implied by presentation, as opposed to an explicit logical 18:30:55 structure with defined semantics (such as the HTML5 Canvas Element), or 18:30:56 as a consequence of decentralized-extensibility (such as the HTML5 item 18:30:58 / itemprop microdtata elements), and only if the user agent keeps an 18:30:59 internal model of the hierarchy which it does not expose via the DOM or 18:31:01 some other accessibility mechanism. (Level A). 18:31:35 action: jeanne to add item to survey moving 3.3.1 to 4.7y 18:31:35 Created ACTION-386 - Add item to survey moving 3.3.1 to 4.7y [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-05-13]. 18:31:48 rrsagent, make minutes 18:31:48 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/06-ua-minutes.html AllanJ 18:32:02 rrsagent, please part 18:32:02 I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2010/05/06-ua-actions.rdf : 18:32:02 ACTION: jeanne to talk to Dave Raggett and/or PLH about speaking to UAWG on Decentralized Extensibility to help us craft success criteria for this. [1] 18:32:02 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/05/06-ua-irc#T18-04-26 18:32:02 ACTION: ja to review extensible aria, decentralized extensibility and guidleline 2 [2] 18:32:02 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/05/06-ua-irc#T18-19-37 18:32:02 ACTION: Jeanne to add item to survey - simon propose wording for 4.7x (formerly 3.3.2) 4.7.x Location in Hierarchy: The user can view the path of nodes leading [3] 18:32:02 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/05/06-ua-irc#T18-30-50 18:32:02 ACTION: jeanne to add item to survey moving 3.3.1 to 4.7y [4] 18:32:02 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/05/06-ua-irc#T18-31-35