22:02:15 RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
22:02:15 logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/05/05-html-a11y-irc
22:02:17 RRSAgent, make logs world
22:02:17 Zakim has joined #html-a11y
22:02:19 Zakim, this will be 2119
22:02:19 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(A11Y)6:00PM scheduled to start 2 minutes ago
22:02:20 Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
22:02:20 Date: 05 May 2010
22:02:30 janina has joined #html-a11y
22:02:31 zakim, who's on the phone?
22:02:31 WAI_PFWG(A11Y)6:00PM has not yet started, MichaelC
22:02:32 On IRC I see janina, Zakim, RRSAgent, plh-home, silvia, AllanJ, Judy, MichaelC, trackbot
22:02:35 zakim, this is 2119
22:02:35 MichaelC, WAI_PFWG(A11Y)6:00PM is already associated with an irc channel; use 'move 2119 to here' if you mean to reassociate the channel
22:02:37 zakim, code?
22:02:38 the conference code is 2119 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), Judy
22:02:47 zakim, move 2119 to here
22:02:49 ok, MichaelC; that matches WAI_PFWG(A11Y)6:00PM
22:02:54 +Judy
22:02:55 zakim, who's on the phone/
22:02:56 I don't understand 'who's on the phone/', MichaelC
22:02:59 zakim, who's on the phone?
22:02:59 On the phone I see Jim_Allan, Janina_Sajka, Michael_Cooper, Mark_Hakkinen, [Microsoft], ??P5, Judy
22:03:07 +Plh
22:03:37 zakim, Microsoft is Frank_Olivier
22:03:37 +Frank_Olivier; got it
22:03:42 zakim, ??P5 is Sean_Hayes
22:03:42 +Sean_Hayes; got it
22:03:48 zakim, who's on the phone?
22:03:48 On the phone I see Jim_Allan, Janina_Sajka, Michael_Cooper, Mark_Hakkinen, Frank_Olivier, Sean_Hayes, Judy, Plh
22:03:58 + +039038aaaa
22:04:14 zakim, aaaa is Kenny_Johar
22:04:14 +Kenny_Johar; got it
22:05:36 zakim, pick a victim
22:05:36 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Jim_Allan
22:05:47 zakim, pick a victim
22:05:47 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Sean_Hayes
22:06:42 Sean has joined #html-a11y
22:07:16 frankolivier has joined #html-a11y
22:07:37 Meeting: HTML-A11Y
22:07:39 Chair: Janina_Sajka
22:07:39 agenda: this
22:07:39 agenda+ identify scribe
22:07:39 agenda+ Actions Review
22:07:39 agenda+ Process Review & Discussion
22:07:40 agenda+ Requirements Gathering
22:07:42 agenda+ Open Issues: APIs; Formats; Etc.
22:07:44 agenda+ New Business
22:07:46 agenda+ next and future meetings
22:07:48 agenda+ be done
22:07:50
22:08:12 zakim, who is here?
22:08:12 On the phone I see Jim_Allan, Janina_Sajka, Michael_Cooper, Mark_Hakkinen, Frank_Olivier, Sean_Hayes, Judy, Plh, Kenny_Johar
22:08:14 On IRC I see frankolivier, Sean, janina, Zakim, RRSAgent, plh-home, silvia, AllanJ, Judy, MichaelC, trackbot
22:10:27 Only action item open is John to create requirments
22:10:47 +Eric
22:13:31 zakim, pick a victim
22:13:31 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Plh
22:13:41 scribe: plh
22:13:47 scribe: plh-home
22:14:20 zakim, plh is me
22:14:20 +plh-home; got it
22:14:55 agenda item 1 was action item check : requirements gathering, not done
22:15:57 agenda item 2 was process: Janina: elephant in the room was process problem; we lost a participation; please bear in mind that we need to be able to listen to each other, not cut off, etc.
22:16:09 s/participation/participant/
22:16:52 zakim, move to next agendum
22:16:52 agendum 1. "identify scribe" taken up [from janina]
22:16:59 zakim, close agendum 1
22:16:59 agendum 1, identify scribe, closed
22:17:01 I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
22:17:01 zakim, move to next agendum
22:17:02 2. Actions Review [from janina]
22:17:04 agendum 2. "Actions Review" taken up [from janina]
22:17:08 zakim, close agendum 2
22:17:08 agendum 2, Actions Review, closed
22:17:09 I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
22:17:10 3. Process Review & Discussion [from janina]
22:17:18 zakim, close agendum 3
22:17:18 agendum 3, Process Review & Discussion, closed
22:17:19 I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
22:17:20 zakim, move to next agendum
22:17:20 4. Requirements Gathering [from janina]
22:17:20 q+
22:17:21 agendum 4. "Requirements Gathering" taken up [from janina]
22:17:32 q+ to comment on requirements gathering
22:17:36 Janina: we're still waiting on John for providing the requirements
22:17:56 ... he is facing an unexpected work load at the moment
22:19:13 Judy: just sent email. was concerned we didn't have a unified set of requirements for captioning in HTML5.
22:19:35 ... I briefly characterized each of the links providing by John last week
22:19:49 ... [Judy is covering materials in email]
22:20:23 ... if anyone is aware of additional resources for requirements, please add it to the thread
22:20:42 ... and then either John or someone will have time to compile them
22:21:04 ... I also wanted to give an indication of gaps that I'm seeing or hearing about
22:22:10 ... I want to make sure we're documenting requirements for folks with mutiple disabilities.
22:22:32 ... are we capturing requirements for people with cognitive disabilities?
22:23:00 ... documenting requirements for video description
22:23:15 ... requirements for structured navigation
22:23:23 ... those are concerns that I have
22:24:54 Janina: how to proceed from disabilities and then to the kind of accommodations or the reverse?
22:25:06 Judy: I'm suggesting to collect the requirements first
22:25:18 q?
22:25:22 ack judy
22:25:22 Judy, you wanted to comment on requirements gathering
22:25:22 ack j
22:25:27 q+ to say the WG is moving ahead with a spec, so is this a case of ready fire aim
22:25:46 s/a unified set of requirements for captioning in HTML5/a unified set of requirements for accessibility of media in HTML5/
22:26:22 Janina: who is willing to help gather requirements? I'm willing to help on structural nav. Maybe Kenny can help as well on that.
22:26:26 Sean: I think it is still valuable for our group to have a list of requirements that we can use to check back with what is happening in HTML5
22:26:51 q?
22:27:18 Mark: some papers from the late 90s, specifically WWW2002 conf, could help. could send pointers.
22:27:31 q?
22:27:37 ack sean
22:27:37 Sean, you wanted to say the WG is moving ahead with a spec, so is this a case of ready fire aim
22:27:42 -Eric
22:28:00 +Eric
22:28:04 Sean: while we're busy making requirements, they're busy putting text into the spec right now. should we slow them down a bit?
22:28:44 Janina: don't know what to say about someone moving forward adding features knowing we're working on this. it shouldn't impact the fact that we need to do the job properly
22:28:56 ... if they guess right, fine, otherwise they'll have to redo the work.
22:29:07 q+
22:29:09 ack Kenny
22:29:09 q?
22:29:25 zakim, who is muted?
22:29:25 I see plh-home, Kenny_Johar muted
22:29:30 slowing down the HTML5 spec isn't wise, since we want progress on media accessibility
22:29:34 zakim, who's muted?
22:29:34 I see plh-home muted
22:29:49 zakim, who is muted?
22:29:49 I see plh-home, Kenny_Johar muted
22:29:52 We want progress, if its the right progress
22:29:59 q+
22:30:12 also, a lot of what is being done is probably acceptable, so we need to get our requirements together and check every one with that new spec text to provide feedback and proposals for improvement
22:30:24 -Kenny_Johar
22:30:42 +Kenny_Johar
22:30:44 Silvia, we need to have one meeting. It would be good if you would get on the phone and not annotate the minutes as though you were on the telecon.
22:31:18 sorry, it works in other groups
22:31:24 The point is that many of us can't track both audio and scrolling text.
22:31:30 Kenny: sharing Sean concerns, the proposal of using the track element is already there in the spec.
22:31:50 ... the video and audio elements now have examples with the track element
22:31:58 ... along with SRT
22:32:25 Janina: those are solutions that we may end up adopting, but need to focus on the requirements
22:33:13 ... who can take on descriptive video?
22:33:59 Sean: I'd be happy to volunteer for some of that
22:34:24 s/also, a lot of what is being done is probably acceptable, so we need to get our requirements together and check every one with that new spec text to provide feedback and proposals for improvement/[silvia off-call: also, a lot of what is being done is probably acceptable, so we need to get our requirements together and check every one with that new spec text to provide feedback and proposals for improvement/
22:34:24 ACTION: Sean to look into descriptive video requirements
22:34:24 Created ACTION-29 - Look into descriptive video requirements [on Sean Hayes - due 2010-05-12].
22:34:40 ACTION: Janina to look into structural navigation requirements
22:34:40 Created ACTION-30 - Look into structural navigation requirements [on Janina Sajka - due 2010-05-12].
22:35:05 Kenny: I'll be happy to help on structural nav requirements as well
22:36:11 Janina: captioning, who can do that? Goeff isn't around at the moment
22:37:04 q+ to say that concurrent edits in HTML shouldn't affect our plans, *but* we are asked to provide a deadline after which we will have submitted our proposal and we should expect edits to be taking place
22:37:07 Judy: I'm interested in getting the disability requirements around captions
22:37:27 action: jb follow up w/ Geoff on comprehensiveness of captioning requirements
22:37:28 Created ACTION-31 - Follow up w/ Geoff on comprehensiveness of captioning requirements [on Judy Brewer - due 2010-05-12].
22:37:45 JF has joined #html-a11y
22:37:51 action: jb follow up w/ Gunnar Hellstrom on comprehensiveness of secondary signed channel requirements
22:37:52 Created ACTION-32 - Follow up w/ Gunnar Hellstrom on comprehensiveness of secondary signed channel requirements [on Judy Brewer - due 2010-05-12].
22:38:35 yes, I have the problem too
22:38:38 Janina: what else in terms of requirements gathering? thank you Jim for sending requirements in btw
22:39:05 --> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010May/0024.html UAAG 2.0 guidelines for video
22:39:17 q+
22:39:44 Sean: what about clear audio used in the UK? isolating audio from the audio background
22:39:53 q+
22:39:55 q/
22:39:57 q?
22:40:03 q+
22:40:05 ack michael
22:40:05 MichaelC, you wanted to say that concurrent edits in HTML shouldn't affect our plans, *but* we are asked to provide a deadline after which we will have submitted our proposal and
22:40:08 ... we should expect edits to be taking place
22:40:47 Michael: re concurrent editing of the HTML spec. that's not our problem but we need to set a date at which we will provide a proposal to the WG and then editing will be expected.
22:40:53 q?
22:40:58 ack frank
22:41:40 Frank: around the issues of WebSRT, it worries that we're adding something into the spec at the moment
22:42:10 Janina: should we communicate worries to the HTML WG here?
22:42:29 Frank: yes, we all know that once language into the spec, it has a tendency to stay
22:42:38 +1 to Frank there
22:42:59 Janina: I'd like to advance our discussion on requirements further
22:43:14 ... the whole point is not to drag the process but move it to a conclusion
22:43:19 q+
22:43:31 q?
22:43:38 ack j
22:44:07 Judy: wanted to respond to Sean re clear audio. that's the kind of things we want to capture.
22:44:18 ... there are similar types of provisions
22:45:05 ... can we fix the spelling mistake in the wiki?
22:45:13 Clarification: My concern is that the spec has WebSRT *and* the concepts of cues; there has not been enough discussion of this
22:45:54 q?
22:46:11 ack al
22:46:51 q+ to add transcripts to the list in addition to captions
22:46:56 ack p
22:46:59 Allan: we need keyboard controls, that are native to the browser. we would want to avoid thousands of interfaces out there
22:47:50 plh: [...]
22:48:17 Allan: user override is nice but the controls should be there.
22:48:24 Janina: API for controls?
22:48:32 Allan: possibly yes.
22:48:42 Janina: play, pause, caption on, etc.
22:49:06 q+
22:49:23 plh: [...]
22:49:56 Eric: the best we can do is to ensure that everything that the browsers can do is also possibly through javascript
22:50:19 Janina: so that the assistive technology can use those
22:50:58 Allan: the user still needs to be able to control the video. whatever the author do should be mapped to the browser functions.
22:52:21 ... if I don't use a screenreader, simply using my keyboard, I should still be able to use well-known keys
22:52:35 q+
22:52:43 Janina: we have to be careful in defining not to enter in system specific
22:53:05 Allan: some basics are possible, like using tab to go through the controls
22:53:29 q?
22:53:31 q?
22:53:56 Sean: we need to add transcripts
22:54:01 re: Janina's point - it should be mappable to *a* key - unspecified. It is common today to see laptops and 3rd party keyboards, etc. that have dedicated volume keys
22:54:10 ... need some kind of labeling to them.
22:54:21 ... separate from captioning
22:54:36 Janina: and the transcript may or may not be in sync with the audio
22:55:05 Sean: they key is to have something labeled as a transcript, and not captions
22:55:07 q-
22:55:14 Janina: where should we add this?
22:55:24 q?
22:55:27 ACTION: Sean to draft transcript requirements
22:55:28 Created ACTION-33 - Draft transcript requirements [on Sean Hayes - due 2010-05-12].
22:55:37 ack s
22:55:46 ack Sean
22:55:46 Sean, you wanted to add transcripts to the list in addition to captions
22:56:02 Silvia, we're not hearing you
22:56:04 zakim, who's on the phone?
22:56:04 On the phone I see Jim_Allan, Janina_Sajka, Michael_Cooper, Mark_Hakkinen, Frank_Olivier, Sean_Hayes, Judy, plh-home (muted), Eric, Kenny_Johar
22:56:14 I can't dial in because the conference is full
22:56:14 ack sean
22:56:14 ack silvia
22:56:16 can I ask here?
22:56:59 re: keyboard controls - Firefox has implemented keyboard controls for the video and audio element
22:57:15 me too?
22:57:50 you can tab to the elements, you can jump forwards, backwards, pause and play, and change the volume
22:58:04 650 862 4603
22:58:17 -Kenny_Johar
22:58:19 Silvia, we're going to clear a telecon slot for you shortly.
22:58:22 [trying to figure how to get people in]
22:58:43 can we just write here and then somebody reads it out?
22:59:02 as a fallback
22:59:06 [John joins]
22:59:11 we are listening to hold music
22:59:26 zakim, code
22:59:26 I don't understand 'code', silvia
22:59:32 zakim, code?
22:59:32 the conference code is 2119 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), silvia
22:59:43 q?
23:00:05 agenda?
23:00:12 +Kenny_Johar
23:00:36 zakim, Kenny_Johar is silvia
23:00:36 +silvia; got it
23:01:01 Silvia: re keyboard controls. firefox has implemented controls. you can change volume, seek, etc.
23:01:09 silvia's audio really quiet; hard to hear
23:01:43 Judy: let's focus in requirements first
23:02:08 Janina: from those present today, we would want to support controls in HTML5 user agent
23:02:22 ... we didn't go beyond that
23:02:33 ... we're gathering requirements together
23:02:34 +1 to controls and as rich a set as conceivable, author can always turn off function if it is not needed
23:02:55