14:46:21 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rif
14:46:21 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/05/04-rif-irc
14:47:26 <ChrisW> zakim, this will be rif
14:47:26 <Zakim> ok, ChrisW; I see SW_RIF()11:00AM scheduled to start in 13 minutes
14:47:34 <ChrisW> Chair: Chris Welty
14:47:48 <ChrisW> Meeting: RIF Telecon 4-May-2010
14:48:32 <ChrisW> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2010May/0001.html
14:49:03 <ChrisW> rrsagent, make minutes
14:49:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/04-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
14:49:33 <ChrisW> agenda+ Admin
14:49:39 <ChrisW> agenda+ Liason
14:49:44 <ChrisW> agenda+ Actions
14:49:50 <ChrisW> agenda+ Public Comments
14:50:00 <ChrisW> agenda+ List Syntax
14:50:08 <ChrisW> agenda+ PR transition update
14:50:18 <ChrisW> agenda+ Test Cases
14:50:31 <ChrisW> agenda+ Test Cases
14:50:37 <ChrisW> agenda+ AOB
14:50:41 <ChrisW> zakim, list agenda
14:50:41 <Zakim> I see 16 items remaining on the agenda:
14:50:43 <Zakim> 3. Actions [from ChrisW]
14:50:43 <Zakim> 4. Public Comments [from ChrisW]
14:50:44 <Zakim> 5. PR Update [from ChrisW]
14:50:44 <Zakim> 6. RDF Imports [from ChrisW]
14:50:48 <Zakim> 7. RIF Primer [from ChrisW]
14:50:52 <Zakim> 8. Test Cases [from ChrisW]
14:50:57 <Zakim> 9. AOB [from ChrisW]
14:50:59 <Zakim> 10. Admin [from ChrisW]
14:51:01 <Zakim> 11. Liason [from ChrisW]
14:51:01 <ChrisW> zakim, drop 1-9
14:51:03 <Zakim> 12. Actions [from ChrisW]
14:51:04 <Harold> Harold has joined #rif
14:51:05 <Zakim> 13. Public Comments [from ChrisW]
14:51:07 <Zakim> 14. List Syntax [from ChrisW]
14:51:09 <Zakim> 15. PR transition update [from ChrisW]
14:51:11 <Zakim> 16. Test Cases [from ChrisW]
14:51:13 <Zakim> 17. Test Cases [from ChrisW]
14:51:15 <Zakim> 18. AOB [from ChrisW]
14:51:17 <Zakim> sorry, ChrisW, I don't know what conference this is
14:51:27 <ChrisW> zakim, remove items 1-9
14:51:27 <Zakim> I don't understand 'remove items 1-9', ChrisW
14:51:37 <ChrisW> zakim, help
14:51:37 <Zakim> Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot for more detailed help.
14:51:40 <Zakim> Some of the commands I know are:
14:51:41 <Zakim>  xxx is yyy       - establish yyy as the name of unknown party xxx
14:51:43 <Zakim>                     if yyy is 'me' or 'I', your nick is substituted
14:51:45 <Zakim>  xxx may be yyy   - establish yyy as possibly the name of unknown party xxx
14:51:48 <Zakim>  I am xxx         - establish your nick as the name of unknown party xxx
14:51:51 <Zakim>  xxx holds yyy [, zzz ...] - establish xxx as a group name and yyy, etc. as participants within that group
14:51:54 <Zakim>  xxx also holds yyy - add yyy to the list of participants in group xxx
14:51:56 <Zakim>  who's here?      - lists the participants on the phone
14:51:59 <Zakim>  who's muted?     - lists the participants who are muted
14:52:02 <Zakim>  mute xxx         - mutes party xxx (like pressing 61#)
14:52:06 <Zakim>  unmute xxx       - reverses the effect of "mute" and of 61#
14:52:08 <Zakim>  is xxx here?     - reports whether a party named like xxx is present
14:52:10 <Zakim>  list conferences - reports the active conferences
14:52:12 <Zakim>  this is xxx      - associates this channel with conference xxx
14:52:14 <Zakim>  excuse us        - disconnects from the irc channel
14:52:16 <Zakim> I last learned something new on $Date: 2010/03/15 18:49:04 $
14:52:27 <ChrisW> zakim, remove item 1-9
14:52:27 <Zakim> I don't understand 'remove item 1-9', ChrisW
14:52:29 <ChrisW> zakim, remove item 1
14:52:29 <Zakim> agendum 1, Admin, dropped
14:52:31 <ChrisW> zakim, remove item 2
14:52:31 <Zakim> agendum 2, Liason, dropped
14:52:33 <ChrisW> zakim, remove item 3
14:52:33 <Zakim> agendum 3, Actions, dropped
14:52:35 <ChrisW> zakim, remove item 4
14:52:35 <Zakim> agendum 4, Public Comments, dropped
14:52:37 <ChrisW> zakim, remove item 5
14:52:37 <Zakim> agendum 5, PR Update, dropped
14:52:39 <ChrisW> zakim, remove item 6
14:52:39 <Zakim> agendum 6, RDF Imports, dropped
14:52:41 <ChrisW> zakim, remove item 7
14:52:41 <Zakim> agendum 7, RIF Primer, dropped
14:52:43 <ChrisW> zakim, remove item 8
14:52:43 <Zakim> agendum 8, Test Cases, dropped
14:52:46 <ChrisW> zakim, remove item 9
14:52:46 <Zakim> agendum 9, AOB, dropped
14:52:51 <ChrisW> zakim, you are a loser
14:52:51 <Zakim> I don't understand 'you are a loser', ChrisW
14:53:18 <ChrisW> zakim, i am not a loser, YOU are a loser
14:53:18 <Zakim> I don't understand 'i am not a loser, YOU are a loser', ChrisW
14:53:41 <ChrisW> zakim, why i am such a loser
14:53:41 <Zakim> I don't understand 'why i am such a loser', ChrisW
14:53:48 <ChrisW> hah
14:54:08 <ChrisW> zakim, list agenda
14:54:08 <Zakim> I see 9 items remaining on the agenda:
14:54:09 <Zakim> 10. Admin [from ChrisW]
14:54:09 <Zakim> 11. Liason [from ChrisW]
14:54:11 <Zakim> 12. Actions [from ChrisW]
14:54:11 <Zakim> 13. Public Comments [from ChrisW]
14:54:12 <Zakim> 14. List Syntax [from ChrisW]
14:54:14 <Zakim> 15. PR transition update [from ChrisW]
14:54:15 <Zakim> 16. Test Cases [from ChrisW]
14:54:15 <Zakim> 17. Test Cases [from ChrisW]
14:54:17 <Zakim> 18. AOB [from ChrisW]
14:54:24 <ChrisW> rrsagent, make logs public
14:59:05 <ChrisW> zakim, next item
14:59:05 <Zakim> agendum 10. "Admin" taken up [from ChrisW]
14:59:10 <Zakim> SW_RIF()11:00AM has now started
14:59:11 <Zakim> +[IBM]
14:59:18 <ChrisW> zakim, ibm is temporarily me
14:59:18 <Zakim> +ChrisW; got it
15:02:50 <ChrisW> Regrets: Christian
15:03:03 <DaveReynolds> DaveReynolds has joined #rif
15:03:23 <Zakim> +[NRCC]
15:03:27 <Zakim> -[NRCC]
15:03:29 <Zakim> +[NRCC]
15:03:39 <Zakim> +Sandro
15:03:47 <Zakim> +??P26
15:04:25 <ChrisW> scribenick: Harold
15:04:32 <ChrisW> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:04:41 <Zakim> On the phone I see ChrisW, [NRCC], Sandro, DaveReynolds
15:04:51 <ChrisW> zakim, nrcc is Harold
15:04:51 <Zakim> +Harold; got it
15:05:26 <Zakim> -Sandro
15:05:38 <ChrisW> last meeting minutes: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2010May/att-0003/20-rif-minutes.html
15:05:47 <ChrisW> PROPOSED: Approve minutes of last meeting
15:06:07 <ChrisW> RESOLVED: Approve minutes of last meeting
15:06:20 <Adrian> Adrian has joined #rif
15:06:36 <ChrisW> zakim, next item
15:06:36 <Zakim> agendum 11. "Liason" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:06:42 <Gary_Hallmark> Gary_Hallmark has joined #rif
15:06:43 <ChrisW> sandro??????
15:06:46 <ChrisW> you coming back?
15:06:58 <Zakim> +Sandro
15:07:02 <ChrisW> zakim, close item 11
15:07:02 <Zakim> agendum 11, Liason, closed
15:07:03 <Zakim> I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:07:05 <Zakim> 12. Actions [from ChrisW]
15:07:08 <ChrisW> zakim, next item
15:07:08 <Zakim> agendum 12. "Actions" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:07:41 <Zakim> +Gary
15:07:42 <Zakim> +??P8
15:07:44 <ChrisW> close action-1003
15:07:44 <trackbot> ACTION-1003 Copy the OWL text about XSD1.1 to DTB, copying http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/REC-owl2-conformance-20091027/#XML_Schema_Datatypes into DTB 2.3, changing OWL to RIF. closed
15:07:52 <Adrian> Zakim, ??P8 is me
15:07:52 <Zakim> +Adrian; got it
15:07:59 <Harold> close action-1002
15:07:59 <trackbot> ACTION-1002 Update DTB to remove at-risk features and update change log closed
15:08:39 <Harold> close action-1000
15:08:39 <trackbot> ACTION-1000 Update http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-comments/2009Nov/att-0015/RIF-CASPD.html remove "W3C Note" closed
15:09:24 <Zakim> -Sandro
15:09:27 <Harold> close action-998
15:09:27 <trackbot> ACTION-998 Prepare preview drafts closed
15:09:37 <Harold> close action-969
15:09:38 <trackbot> ACTION-969 Draft response on public comment JA closed
15:10:08 <ChrisW> zakim, next item
15:10:08 <Zakim> agendum 13. "Public Comments" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:10:20 <Zakim> +Sandro
15:11:05 <ChrisW> zakim, close item 13
15:11:05 <Zakim> agendum 13, Public Comments, closed
15:11:06 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:11:08 <Zakim> 14. List Syntax [from ChrisW]
15:11:10 <ChrisW> zakim, next item
15:11:10 <Zakim> agendum 14. "List Syntax" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:11:30 <Harold> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2010Apr/0032.html
15:11:31 <ChrisW> PROPOSED: Validate the corrected XML syntax of lists, allowing annotations and aligning with the other constructs.
15:13:20 <DaveReynolds> +1
15:13:24 <Gary> +1
15:13:25 <Harold> +1
15:13:27 <Adrian> +1
15:13:28 <ChrisW> Sandro (on phone): +1
15:13:36 <ChrisW> RESOLVED: Validate the corrected XML syntax of lists, allowing annotations and aligning with the other constructs.
15:13:42 <ChrisW> zakim, next item
15:13:42 <Zakim> agendum 15. "PR transition update" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:14:29 <Harold> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/FLD#Appendix:_A_Subframework_for_Herbrand_Semantic_Structures
15:15:11 <Harold> Chris: Need reviewers
15:15:33 <Harold> Adrian: Can take a look.
15:15:53 <Harold> Chris: Next couple of (2?) days.
15:16:02 <ChrisW> action: Adrian to review new FLD appendix on herbrand structures
15:16:03 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1007 - Review new FLD appendix on herbrand structures [on Adrian Paschke - due 2010-05-11].
15:16:35 <Harold> Chris: Conditional on that, we are approved to go to PR.
15:17:10 <Harold> ... Need to  get Public Relations out for these Proposed Recommendations.
15:17:29 <Harold> ... Last time we need to drum up interest.
15:17:51 <Harold> ... Make Statements of Support for RIF.
15:18:06 <Harold> ... E.g.: Implementers and Users.
15:18:26 <Harold> Sandro: Will send email about such 'Testimonials'.
15:18:43 <Harold> ... Everyone who has a product in that space can participate.
15:19:35 <Harold> Chris: Gary, Christian/Chris need to make PR machinery going.
15:20:19 <Harold> Sandro: Next week, Tue, W3C will send a msg about this.
15:20:44 <Harold> ... Mid/End of June the Rec could be out.
15:21:06 <Zakim> -Sandro
15:21:11 <Harold> Chris: Christian/Chris will give Semech presentations on RIF around that time.
15:21:17 <Zakim> +Sandro
15:21:32 <Harold> ... Right after that, there will be an RDF workshop.
15:21:42 <Harold> ... If interested, let Chris know.
15:21:49 <ChrisW> zakim, list agenda
15:21:49 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
15:21:51 <Zakim> 15. PR transition update [from ChrisW]
15:21:53 <Zakim> 16. Test Cases [from ChrisW]
15:21:53 <Zakim> 17. Test Cases [from ChrisW]
15:21:55 <Zakim> 18. AOB [from ChrisW]
15:22:06 <ChrisW> zakim, next item
15:22:06 <Zakim> agendum 16. "Test Cases" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:22:22 <Harold> Sandro: May send emails on formatting issues soon.
15:23:19 <Zakim> + +43.158.801.1aaaa
15:23:28 <Harold> Sandro: Process is: Goes to PR next week. Then Advisory Committee need to decide. Rec would then follow.
15:23:56 <Harold> NRC's AC Rep: Danny d'Amour.
15:25:04 <Harold> Sandro: Oracle's AC Rep: Dr. Gutentag (formally Sun)
15:26:09 <Harold> Sandro: Good time for joining W3C, because the 'Testimonials' also help the companies doing them.
15:26:32 <Harold> Dave: Former HP colleagues, ...
15:27:13 <Harold> Chris: Contact people who where (formally) in the WG but no longer read WG email.
15:27:36 <Harold> where->were
15:27:41 <ChrisW> sandro: send chris an email list of RIF WG members
15:27:50 <ChrisW> http://www.w3.org/Member/ACList
15:28:32 <Harold> Sandro: After the PR is announced we should ping these colleagues.
15:28:47 <josb> josb has joined #rif
15:28:54 <ChrisW> action: sandro to send chris an email list of RIF WG members
15:28:55 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1008 - Send chris an email list of RIF WG members [on Sandro Hawke - due 2010-05-11].
15:29:42 <Harold> Jos: Can also read Herbrand Semantic Structures.
15:29:58 <ChrisW> action: josb to review Appendix A of FLD
15:29:58 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1009 - Review Appendix A of FLD [on Jos de Bruijn - due 2010-05-11].
15:32:45 <Harold> Chris: Started to review proofs of SWC document.
15:32:53 <Harold> ... But am not through yet.
15:33:05 <Harold> ... Notation MIGHT be confused.
15:33:22 <Harold> ... So far haven't found real issue.
15:33:57 <ChrisW> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Fibonacci
15:34:36 <Harold> Chris: Has no Presentation Syntax.
15:34:55 <Harold> Jos: All Test cases should have a PS, if only for uniformity.
15:35:19 <Harold> Dave: Even XML doesn't appear to be there.
15:35:48 <ChrisW> action: Sandro to try and translate Fibonacci test case to presentation syntax
15:35:48 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1010 - Try and translate Fibonacci test case to presentation syntax [on Sandro Hawke - due 2010-05-11].
15:36:03 <ChrisW> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/OWL_Combination_Invalid_DL_Formula
15:37:47 <Harold> Chris: Problem is not the imported but the RIF document itself.
15:38:14 <Harold> Jos: Both are reasons for rejection.
15:39:29 <Harold> Sandro: Maybe have two different tests.
15:40:01 <Harold> Jos: I do it right now.
15:40:37 <Harold> Sandro: Stella should re-generate the XML later.
15:41:17 <ChrisW> action: jos to add an import rejection test case for an empty rdf file
15:41:17 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1011 - Add an import rejection test case for an empty rdf file [on Jos de Bruijn - due 2010-05-11].
15:41:35 <josb> Ontology()
15:42:08 <sandro> jos: "ontologies without a name are given a blank node", so it's okay to use _:x rdf:type owl:Ontology.
15:47:56 <Harold> Jos: Modifier of dialect in the wiki template is not being rendered when you view it.
15:48:35 <ChrisW> action: josb to review all test cases for use of "importProfile" wiki attribute
15:48:35 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1012 - Review all test cases for use of "importProfile" wiki attribute [on Jos de Bruijn - due 2010-05-11].
15:48:35 <Harold> Sandro: Update the wiki template ImportProfile right now.
15:50:14 <ChrisW> PROPOSED: Approve test case OWL_Combination_Invalid_DL_Formula
15:50:17 <ChrisW> +1
15:50:19 <DaveReynolds> +1
15:50:21 <Harold> +1
15:50:22 <josb> +1
15:50:37 <sandro> +1
15:50:39 <Adrian> +1
15:50:41 <Gary> +1
15:50:41 <ChrisW> RESOLVED: Approve test case OWL_Combination_Invalid_DL_Formula
15:50:47 <josb> I made the test case: OWL_Combination_Invalid_DL_Import
15:50:51 <josb> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/OWL_Combination_Invalid_DL_Import
15:52:35 <ChrisW> PROPOSED: OWL_Combination_Invalid_DL_Import
15:52:50 <sandro> +1
15:52:53 <DaveReynolds> +1
15:53:00 <ChrisW> +1
15:53:12 <ChrisW> PROPOSED: Approve test case OWL_Combination_Invalid_DL_Import
15:53:16 <josb> +1
15:53:17 <Harold> +1
15:53:20 <Adrian> +1
15:53:22 <ChrisW> +1
15:53:25 <Gary> +1
15:53:27 <DaveReynolds> +1
15:53:29 <ChrisW> RESOLVED: Approve test case OWL_Combination_Invalid_DL_Import
15:54:09 <sandro> RRSAgent, pointer?
15:54:09 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2010/05/04-rif-irc#T15-54-09
15:55:06 <ChrisW> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Ordered_Relations
15:58:07 <Harold> Chris: SpecRef is BLD but the Dialect is Core.
15:58:46 <Harold> Sandro: Would use more narrow SpecRef within BLD (where it's actually described).
15:59:41 <sandro> Gary: lets used    10     instead of     "10"^^xs:integer)
15:59:42 <Harold> Gary: Could we not write 10 instead "10"^^xs:integer ?
16:00:25 <Harold> Sandro: My tool accepts this PS shortcut.
16:01:27 <sandro> sandro: how about "positional arguments" instead of "ordered relations"
16:01:35 <sandro> (general agreement, Chris renames it.)
16:03:27 <sandro> rename http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Unordered_Relations to Named_Arguments ?
16:04:14 <Adrian> fine with the change
16:09:16 <Harold> Dave/Sandro: Names of named arguments can be a string.
16:09:56 <Harold> Sandro: Parser needs look-ahead until it finds forward arrow or not.
16:11:40 <ChrisW> PROPOSED: Approve test case Named_Arguments
16:11:43 <ChrisW> +1
16:11:44 <sandro> +1
16:11:46 <DaveReynolds> +1
16:11:47 <Adrian> +1
16:11:55 <ChrisW> RESOLVED: Approve test case Named_Arguments
16:12:05 <ChrisW> RESOLVED: Approve test case Positional_Arguments
16:12:08 <ChrisW> +1
16:12:12 <sandro> +1
16:12:16 <Harold> +1
16:12:19 <DaveReynolds> +1 :)
16:12:22 <ChrisW> RESOLVED: Approve test case Positional_Arguments
16:12:23 <josb> +1
16:12:27 <Gary> +1
16:12:29 <josb> +1
16:12:39 <Adrian> +1
16:12:39 <ChrisW> rrsagent, pointer?
16:12:39 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2010/05/04-rif-irc#T16-12-39-1
16:15:57 <ChrisW> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Parents
16:16:25 <Harold> Chris: Another one without PS and with broken links.
16:16:38 <Harold> Dave: Same for Purchase.
16:16:50 <ChrisW> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/RDF_Combination_Constant_Equivalence_4
16:19:22 <Harold> Dave: Supposed to illustrate the syntactic difference.
16:19:59 <Harold> Jos: Make PLAINLITERAL out of it?
16:20:31 <Harold> ... or change it back to string?
16:22:27 <ChrisW> Proposed: approve test case RDF_Combination_Constant_Equivalence_4
16:22:36 <Harold> +1
16:22:36 <ChrisW> +1
16:22:37 <Adrian> +1
16:22:39 <Gary> +1
16:22:39 <DaveReynolds> +1
16:22:45 <ChrisW> Resolved: approve test case RDF_Combination_Constant_Equivalence_4
16:22:55 <josb> +1
16:23:03 <ChrisW> zakim, next item
16:23:03 <Zakim> agendum 17. "Test Cases" taken up [from ChrisW]
16:23:10 <ChrisW> zakim, list agenda
16:23:10 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda:
16:23:11 <Zakim> 17. Test Cases [from ChrisW]
16:23:11 <Zakim> 18. AOB [from ChrisW]
16:23:18 <ChrisW> zakim, list attendees
16:23:18 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been ChrisW, Sandro, DaveReynolds, Harold, Gary, Adrian, +43.158.801.1aaaa, josb
16:23:26 <Zakim> -Adrian
16:23:31 <ChrisW> rrsagent, make minutes
16:23:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/04-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
16:23:32 <Zakim> -Gary
16:23:42 <Zakim> -josb
16:23:48 <Zakim> -DaveReynolds
16:24:21 <Zakim> -Harold
16:24:28 <Zakim> -ChrisW
16:27:11 <ChrisW> ChrisW has joined #rif
17:04:11 <Zakim> -Sandro
17:04:12 <Zakim> SW_RIF()11:00AM has ended
17:04:14 <Zakim> Attendees were ChrisW, Sandro, DaveReynolds, Harold, Gary, Adrian, +43.158.801.1aaaa, josb