IRC log of rif on 2010-05-04

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:46:21 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #rif

14:46:21 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/05/04-rif-irc

14:47:26 [ChrisW]

zakim, this will be rif

14:47:26 [Zakim]

ok, ChrisW; I see SW_RIF()11:00AM scheduled to start in 13 minutes

14:47:34 [ChrisW]

Chair: Chris Welty

14:47:48 [ChrisW]

Meeting: RIF Telecon 4-May-2010

14:48:32 [ChrisW]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2010May/0001.html

14:49:03 [ChrisW]

rrsagent, make minutes

14:49:03 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/04-rif-minutes.html ChrisW

14:49:33 [ChrisW]

agenda+ Admin

14:49:39 [ChrisW]

agenda+ Liason

14:49:44 [ChrisW]

agenda+ Actions

14:49:50 [ChrisW]

agenda+ Public Comments

14:50:00 [ChrisW]

agenda+ List Syntax

14:50:08 [ChrisW]

agenda+ PR transition update

14:50:18 [ChrisW]

agenda+ Test Cases

14:50:31 [ChrisW]

agenda+ Test Cases

14:50:37 [ChrisW]

agenda+ AOB

14:50:41 [ChrisW]

zakim, list agenda

14:50:41 [Zakim]

I see 16 items remaining on the agenda:

14:50:43 [Zakim]

3. Actions [from ChrisW]

14:50:43 [Zakim]

4. Public Comments [from ChrisW]

14:50:44 [Zakim]

5. PR Update [from ChrisW]

14:50:44 [Zakim]

6. RDF Imports [from ChrisW]

14:50:48 [Zakim]

7. RIF Primer [from ChrisW]

14:50:52 [Zakim]

8. Test Cases [from ChrisW]

14:50:57 [Zakim]

9. AOB [from ChrisW]

14:50:59 [Zakim]

10. Admin [from ChrisW]

14:51:01 [Zakim]

11. Liason [from ChrisW]

14:51:01 [ChrisW]

zakim, drop 1-9

14:51:03 [Zakim]

12. Actions [from ChrisW]

14:51:04 [Harold]

Harold has joined #rif

14:51:05 [Zakim]

13. Public Comments [from ChrisW]

14:51:07 [Zakim]

14. List Syntax [from ChrisW]

14:51:09 [Zakim]

15. PR transition update [from ChrisW]

14:51:11 [Zakim]

16. Test Cases [from ChrisW]

14:51:13 [Zakim]

17. Test Cases [from ChrisW]

14:51:15 [Zakim]

18. AOB [from ChrisW]

14:51:17 [Zakim]

sorry, ChrisW, I don't know what conference this is

14:51:27 [ChrisW]

zakim, remove items 1-9

14:51:27 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'remove items 1-9', ChrisW

14:51:37 [ChrisW]

zakim, help

14:51:37 [Zakim]

Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot for more detailed help.

14:51:40 [Zakim]

Some of the commands I know are:

14:51:41 [Zakim]

xxx is yyy - establish yyy as the name of unknown party xxx

14:51:43 [Zakim]

if yyy is 'me' or 'I', your nick is substituted

14:51:45 [Zakim]

xxx may be yyy - establish yyy as possibly the name of unknown party xxx

14:51:48 [Zakim]

I am xxx - establish your nick as the name of unknown party xxx

14:51:51 [Zakim]

xxx holds yyy [, zzz ...] - establish xxx as a group name and yyy, etc. as participants within that group

14:51:54 [Zakim]

xxx also holds yyy - add yyy to the list of participants in group xxx

14:51:56 [Zakim]

who's here? - lists the participants on the phone

14:51:59 [Zakim]

who's muted? - lists the participants who are muted

14:52:02 [Zakim]

mute xxx - mutes party xxx (like pressing 61#)

14:52:06 [Zakim]

unmute xxx - reverses the effect of "mute" and of 61#

14:52:08 [Zakim]

is xxx here? - reports whether a party named like xxx is present

14:52:10 [Zakim]

list conferences - reports the active conferences

14:52:12 [Zakim]

this is xxx - associates this channel with conference xxx

14:52:14 [Zakim]

excuse us - disconnects from the irc channel

14:52:16 [Zakim]

I last learned something new on $Date: 2010/03/15 18:49:04 $

14:52:27 [ChrisW]

zakim, remove item 1-9

14:52:27 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'remove item 1-9', ChrisW

14:52:29 [ChrisW]

zakim, remove item 1

14:52:29 [Zakim]

agendum 1, Admin, dropped

14:52:31 [ChrisW]

zakim, remove item 2

14:52:31 [Zakim]

agendum 2, Liason, dropped

14:52:33 [ChrisW]

zakim, remove item 3

14:52:33 [Zakim]

agendum 3, Actions, dropped

14:52:35 [ChrisW]

zakim, remove item 4

14:52:35 [Zakim]

agendum 4, Public Comments, dropped

14:52:37 [ChrisW]

zakim, remove item 5

14:52:37 [Zakim]

agendum 5, PR Update, dropped

14:52:39 [ChrisW]

zakim, remove item 6

14:52:39 [Zakim]

agendum 6, RDF Imports, dropped

14:52:41 [ChrisW]

zakim, remove item 7

14:52:41 [Zakim]

agendum 7, RIF Primer, dropped

14:52:43 [ChrisW]

zakim, remove item 8

14:52:43 [Zakim]

agendum 8, Test Cases, dropped

14:52:46 [ChrisW]

zakim, remove item 9

14:52:46 [Zakim]

agendum 9, AOB, dropped

14:52:51 [ChrisW]

zakim, you are a loser

14:52:51 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'you are a loser', ChrisW

14:53:18 [ChrisW]

zakim, i am not a loser, YOU are a loser

14:53:18 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'i am not a loser, YOU are a loser', ChrisW

14:53:41 [ChrisW]

zakim, why i am such a loser

14:53:41 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'why i am such a loser', ChrisW

14:53:48 [ChrisW]

hah

14:54:08 [ChrisW]

zakim, list agenda

14:54:08 [Zakim]

I see 9 items remaining on the agenda:

14:54:09 [Zakim]

10. Admin [from ChrisW]

14:54:09 [Zakim]

11. Liason [from ChrisW]

14:54:11 [Zakim]

12. Actions [from ChrisW]

14:54:11 [Zakim]

13. Public Comments [from ChrisW]

14:54:12 [Zakim]

14. List Syntax [from ChrisW]

14:54:14 [Zakim]

15. PR transition update [from ChrisW]

14:54:15 [Zakim]

16. Test Cases [from ChrisW]

14:54:15 [Zakim]

17. Test Cases [from ChrisW]

14:54:17 [Zakim]

18. AOB [from ChrisW]

14:54:24 [ChrisW]

rrsagent, make logs public

14:59:05 [ChrisW]

zakim, next item

14:59:05 [Zakim]

agendum 10. "Admin" taken up [from ChrisW]

14:59:10 [Zakim]

SW_RIF()11:00AM has now started

14:59:11 [Zakim]

+[IBM]

14:59:18 [ChrisW]

zakim, ibm is temporarily me

14:59:18 [Zakim]

+ChrisW; got it

15:02:50 [ChrisW]

Regrets: Christian

15:03:03 [DaveReynolds]

DaveReynolds has joined #rif

15:03:23 [Zakim]

+[NRCC]

15:03:27 [Zakim]

-[NRCC]

15:03:29 [Zakim]

+[NRCC]

15:03:39 [Zakim]

+Sandro

15:03:47 [Zakim]

+??P26

15:04:25 [ChrisW]

scribenick: Harold

15:04:32 [ChrisW]

zakim, who is on the phone?

15:04:41 [Zakim]

On the phone I see ChrisW, [NRCC], Sandro, DaveReynolds

15:04:51 [ChrisW]

zakim, nrcc is Harold

15:04:51 [Zakim]

+Harold; got it

15:05:26 [Zakim]

-Sandro

15:05:38 [ChrisW]

last meeting minutes: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2010May/att-0003/20-rif-minutes.html

15:05:47 [ChrisW]

PROPOSED: Approve minutes of last meeting

15:06:07 [ChrisW]

RESOLVED: Approve minutes of last meeting

15:06:20 [Adrian]

Adrian has joined #rif

15:06:36 [ChrisW]

zakim, next item

15:06:36 [Zakim]

agendum 11. "Liason" taken up [from ChrisW]

15:06:42 [Gary_Hallmark]

Gary_Hallmark has joined #rif

15:06:43 [ChrisW]

sandro??????

15:06:46 [ChrisW]

you coming back?

15:06:58 [Zakim]

+Sandro

15:07:02 [ChrisW]

zakim, close item 11

15:07:02 [Zakim]

agendum 11, Liason, closed

15:07:03 [Zakim]

I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

15:07:05 [Zakim]

12. Actions [from ChrisW]

15:07:08 [ChrisW]

zakim, next item

15:07:08 [Zakim]

agendum 12. "Actions" taken up [from ChrisW]

15:07:41 [Zakim]

+Gary

15:07:42 [Zakim]

+??P8

15:07:44 [ChrisW]

close action-1003

15:07:44 [trackbot]

ACTION-1003 Copy the OWL text about XSD1.1 to DTB, copying http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/REC-owl2-conformance-20091027/#XML_Schema_Datatypes into DTB 2.3, changing OWL to RIF. closed

15:07:52 [Adrian]

Zakim, ??P8 is me

15:07:52 [Zakim]

+Adrian; got it

15:07:59 [Harold]

close action-1002

15:07:59 [trackbot]

ACTION-1002 Update DTB to remove at-risk features and update change log closed

15:08:39 [Harold]

close action-1000

15:08:39 [trackbot]

ACTION-1000 Update http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-comments/2009Nov/att-0015/RIF-CASPD.html remove "W3C Note" closed

15:09:24 [Zakim]

-Sandro

15:09:27 [Harold]

close action-998

15:09:27 [trackbot]

ACTION-998 Prepare preview drafts closed

15:09:37 [Harold]

close action-969

15:09:38 [trackbot]

ACTION-969 Draft response on public comment JA closed

15:10:08 [ChrisW]

zakim, next item

15:10:08 [Zakim]

agendum 13. "Public Comments" taken up [from ChrisW]

15:10:20 [Zakim]

+Sandro

15:11:05 [ChrisW]

zakim, close item 13

15:11:05 [Zakim]

agendum 13, Public Comments, closed

15:11:06 [Zakim]

I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

15:11:08 [Zakim]

14. List Syntax [from ChrisW]

15:11:10 [ChrisW]

zakim, next item

15:11:10 [Zakim]

agendum 14. "List Syntax" taken up [from ChrisW]

15:11:30 [Harold]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2010Apr/0032.html

15:11:31 [ChrisW]

PROPOSED: Validate the corrected XML syntax of lists, allowing annotations and aligning with the other constructs.

15:13:20 [DaveReynolds]

+1

15:13:24 [Gary]

+1

15:13:25 [Harold]

+1

15:13:27 [Adrian]

+1

15:13:28 [ChrisW]

Sandro (on phone): +1

15:13:36 [ChrisW]

RESOLVED: Validate the corrected XML syntax of lists, allowing annotations and aligning with the other constructs.

15:13:42 [ChrisW]

zakim, next item

15:13:42 [Zakim]

agendum 15. "PR transition update" taken up [from ChrisW]

15:14:29 [Harold]

http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/FLD#Appendix:_A_Subframework_for_Herbrand_Semantic_Structures

15:15:11 [Harold]

Chris: Need reviewers

15:15:33 [Harold]

Adrian: Can take a look.

15:15:53 [Harold]

Chris: Next couple of (2?) days.

15:16:02 [ChrisW]

action: Adrian to review new FLD appendix on herbrand structures

15:16:03 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-1007 - Review new FLD appendix on herbrand structures [on Adrian Paschke - due 2010-05-11].

15:16:35 [Harold]

Chris: Conditional on that, we are approved to go to PR.

15:17:10 [Harold]

... Need to get Public Relations out for these Proposed Recommendations.

15:17:29 [Harold]

... Last time we need to drum up interest.

15:17:51 [Harold]

... Make Statements of Support for RIF.

15:18:06 [Harold]

... E.g.: Implementers and Users.

15:18:26 [Harold]

Sandro: Will send email about such 'Testimonials'.

15:18:43 [Harold]

... Everyone who has a product in that space can participate.

15:19:35 [Harold]

Chris: Gary, Christian/Chris need to make PR machinery going.

15:20:19 [Harold]

Sandro: Next week, Tue, W3C will send a msg about this.

15:20:44 [Harold]

... Mid/End of June the Rec could be out.

15:21:06 [Zakim]

-Sandro

15:21:11 [Harold]

Chris: Christian/Chris will give Semech presentations on RIF around that time.

15:21:17 [Zakim]

+Sandro

15:21:32 [Harold]

... Right after that, there will be an RDF workshop.

15:21:42 [Harold]

... If interested, let Chris know.

15:21:49 [ChrisW]

zakim, list agenda

15:21:49 [Zakim]

I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:

15:21:51 [Zakim]

15. PR transition update [from ChrisW]

15:21:53 [Zakim]

16. Test Cases [from ChrisW]

15:21:53 [Zakim]

17. Test Cases [from ChrisW]

15:21:55 [Zakim]

18. AOB [from ChrisW]

15:22:06 [ChrisW]

zakim, next item

15:22:06 [Zakim]

agendum 16. "Test Cases" taken up [from ChrisW]

15:22:22 [Harold]

Sandro: May send emails on formatting issues soon.

15:23:19 [Zakim]

+ +43.158.801.1aaaa

15:23:28 [Harold]

Sandro: Process is: Goes to PR next week. Then Advisory Committee need to decide. Rec would then follow.

15:23:56 [Harold]

NRC's AC Rep: Danny d'Amour.

15:25:04 [Harold]

Sandro: Oracle's AC Rep: Dr. Gutentag (formally Sun)

15:26:09 [Harold]

Sandro: Good time for joining W3C, because the 'Testimonials' also help the companies doing them.

15:26:32 [Harold]

Dave: Former HP colleagues, ...

15:27:13 [Harold]

Chris: Contact people who where (formally) in the WG but no longer read WG email.

15:27:36 [Harold]

where->were

15:27:41 [ChrisW]

sandro: send chris an email list of RIF WG members

15:27:50 [ChrisW]

http://www.w3.org/Member/ACList

15:28:32 [Harold]

Sandro: After the PR is announced we should ping these colleagues.

15:28:47 [josb]

josb has joined #rif

15:28:54 [ChrisW]

action: sandro to send chris an email list of RIF WG members

15:28:55 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-1008 - Send chris an email list of RIF WG members [on Sandro Hawke - due 2010-05-11].

15:29:42 [Harold]

Jos: Can also read Herbrand Semantic Structures.

15:29:58 [ChrisW]

action: josb to review Appendix A of FLD

15:29:58 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-1009 - Review Appendix A of FLD [on Jos de Bruijn - due 2010-05-11].

15:32:45 [Harold]

Chris: Started to review proofs of SWC document.

15:32:53 [Harold]

... But am not through yet.

15:33:05 [Harold]

... Notation MIGHT be confused.

15:33:22 [Harold]

... So far haven't found real issue.

15:33:57 [ChrisW]

http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Fibonacci

15:34:36 [Harold]

Chris: Has no Presentation Syntax.

15:34:55 [Harold]

Jos: All Test cases should have a PS, if only for uniformity.

15:35:19 [Harold]

Dave: Even XML doesn't appear to be there.

15:35:48 [ChrisW]

action: Sandro to try and translate Fibonacci test case to presentation syntax

15:35:48 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-1010 - Try and translate Fibonacci test case to presentation syntax [on Sandro Hawke - due 2010-05-11].

15:36:03 [ChrisW]

http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/OWL_Combination_Invalid_DL_Formula

15:37:47 [Harold]

Chris: Problem is not the imported but the RIF document itself.

15:38:14 [Harold]

Jos: Both are reasons for rejection.

15:39:29 [Harold]

Sandro: Maybe have two different tests.

15:40:01 [Harold]

Jos: I do it right now.

15:40:37 [Harold]

Sandro: Stella should re-generate the XML later.

15:41:17 [ChrisW]

action: jos to add an import rejection test case for an empty rdf file

15:41:17 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-1011 - Add an import rejection test case for an empty rdf file [on Jos de Bruijn - due 2010-05-11].

15:41:35 [josb]

Ontology()

15:42:08 [sandro]

jos: "ontologies without a name are given a blank node", so it's okay to use _:x rdf:type owl:Ontology.

15:47:56 [Harold]

Jos: Modifier of dialect in the wiki template is not being rendered when you view it.

15:48:35 [ChrisW]

action: josb to review all test cases for use of "importProfile" wiki attribute

15:48:35 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-1012 - Review all test cases for use of "importProfile" wiki attribute [on Jos de Bruijn - due 2010-05-11].

15:48:35 [Harold]

Sandro: Update the wiki template ImportProfile right now.

15:50:14 [ChrisW]

PROPOSED: Approve test case OWL_Combination_Invalid_DL_Formula

15:50:17 [ChrisW]

+1

15:50:19 [DaveReynolds]

+1

15:50:21 [Harold]

+1

15:50:22 [josb]

+1

15:50:37 [sandro]

+1

15:50:39 [Adrian]

+1

15:50:41 [Gary]

+1

15:50:41 [ChrisW]

RESOLVED: Approve test case OWL_Combination_Invalid_DL_Formula

15:50:47 [josb]

I made the test case: OWL_Combination_Invalid_DL_Import

15:50:51 [josb]

http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/OWL_Combination_Invalid_DL_Import

15:52:35 [ChrisW]

PROPOSED: OWL_Combination_Invalid_DL_Import

15:52:50 [sandro]

+1

15:52:53 [DaveReynolds]

+1

15:53:00 [ChrisW]

+1

15:53:12 [ChrisW]

PROPOSED: Approve test case OWL_Combination_Invalid_DL_Import

15:53:16 [josb]

+1

15:53:17 [Harold]

+1

15:53:20 [Adrian]

+1

15:53:22 [ChrisW]

+1

15:53:25 [Gary]

+1

15:53:27 [DaveReynolds]

+1

15:53:29 [ChrisW]

RESOLVED: Approve test case OWL_Combination_Invalid_DL_Import

15:54:09 [sandro]

RRSAgent, pointer?

15:54:09 [RRSAgent]

See http://www.w3.org/2010/05/04-rif-irc#T15-54-09

15:55:06 [ChrisW]

http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Ordered_Relations

15:58:07 [Harold]

Chris: SpecRef is BLD but the Dialect is Core.

15:58:46 [Harold]

Sandro: Would use more narrow SpecRef within BLD (where it's actually described).

15:59:41 [sandro]

Gary: lets used 10 instead of "10"^^xs:integer)

15:59:42 [Harold]

Gary: Could we not write 10 instead "10"^^xs:integer ?

16:00:25 [Harold]

Sandro: My tool accepts this PS shortcut.

16:01:27 [sandro]

sandro: how about "positional arguments" instead of "ordered relations"

16:01:35 [sandro]

(general agreement, Chris renames it.)

16:03:27 [sandro]

rename http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Unordered_Relations to Named_Arguments ?

16:04:14 [Adrian]

fine with the change

16:09:16 [Harold]

Dave/Sandro: Names of named arguments can be a string.

16:09:56 [Harold]

Sandro: Parser needs look-ahead until it finds forward arrow or not.

16:11:40 [ChrisW]

PROPOSED: Approve test case Named_Arguments

16:11:43 [ChrisW]

+1

16:11:44 [sandro]

+1

16:11:46 [DaveReynolds]

+1

16:11:47 [Adrian]

+1

16:11:55 [ChrisW]

RESOLVED: Approve test case Named_Arguments

16:12:05 [ChrisW]

RESOLVED: Approve test case Positional_Arguments

16:12:08 [ChrisW]

+1

16:12:12 [sandro]

+1

16:12:16 [Harold]

+1

16:12:19 [DaveReynolds]

+1 :)

16:12:22 [ChrisW]

RESOLVED: Approve test case Positional_Arguments

16:12:23 [josb]

+1

16:12:27 [Gary]

+1

16:12:29 [josb]

+1

16:12:39 [Adrian]

+1

16:12:39 [ChrisW]

rrsagent, pointer?

16:12:39 [RRSAgent]

See http://www.w3.org/2010/05/04-rif-irc#T16-12-39-1

16:15:57 [ChrisW]

http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Parents

16:16:25 [Harold]

Chris: Another one without PS and with broken links.

16:16:38 [Harold]

Dave: Same for Purchase.

16:16:50 [ChrisW]

http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/RDF_Combination_Constant_Equivalence_4

16:19:22 [Harold]

Dave: Supposed to illustrate the syntactic difference.

16:19:59 [Harold]

Jos: Make PLAINLITERAL out of it?

16:20:31 [Harold]

... or change it back to string?

16:22:27 [ChrisW]

Proposed: approve test case RDF_Combination_Constant_Equivalence_4

16:22:36 [Harold]

+1

16:22:36 [ChrisW]

+1

16:22:37 [Adrian]

+1

16:22:39 [Gary]

+1

16:22:39 [DaveReynolds]

+1

16:22:45 [ChrisW]

Resolved: approve test case RDF_Combination_Constant_Equivalence_4

16:22:55 [josb]

+1

16:23:03 [ChrisW]

zakim, next item

16:23:03 [Zakim]

agendum 17. "Test Cases" taken up [from ChrisW]

16:23:10 [ChrisW]

zakim, list agenda

16:23:10 [Zakim]

I see 2 items remaining on the agenda:

16:23:11 [Zakim]

17. Test Cases [from ChrisW]

16:23:11 [Zakim]

18. AOB [from ChrisW]

16:23:18 [ChrisW]

zakim, list attendees

16:23:18 [Zakim]

As of this point the attendees have been ChrisW, Sandro, DaveReynolds, Harold, Gary, Adrian, +43.158.801.1aaaa, josb

16:23:26 [Zakim]

-Adrian

16:23:31 [ChrisW]

rrsagent, make minutes

16:23:31 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/04-rif-minutes.html ChrisW

16:23:32 [Zakim]

-Gary

16:23:42 [Zakim]

-josb

16:23:48 [Zakim]

-DaveReynolds

16:24:21 [Zakim]

-Harold

16:24:28 [Zakim]

-ChrisW

16:27:11 [ChrisW]

ChrisW has joined #rif

17:04:11 [Zakim]

-Sandro

17:04:12 [Zakim]

SW_RIF()11:00AM has ended

17:04:14 [Zakim]

Attendees were ChrisW, Sandro, DaveReynolds, Harold, Gary, Adrian, +43.158.801.1aaaa, josb