IRC log of rif on 2010-05-04

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:46:21 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #rif
14:46:21 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/05/04-rif-irc
14:47:26 [ChrisW]
zakim, this will be rif
14:47:26 [Zakim]
ok, ChrisW; I see SW_RIF()11:00AM scheduled to start in 13 minutes
14:47:34 [ChrisW]
Chair: Chris Welty
14:47:48 [ChrisW]
Meeting: RIF Telecon 4-May-2010
14:48:32 [ChrisW]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2010May/0001.html
14:49:03 [ChrisW]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:49:03 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/04-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
14:49:33 [ChrisW]
agenda+ Admin
14:49:39 [ChrisW]
agenda+ Liason
14:49:44 [ChrisW]
agenda+ Actions
14:49:50 [ChrisW]
agenda+ Public Comments
14:50:00 [ChrisW]
agenda+ List Syntax
14:50:08 [ChrisW]
agenda+ PR transition update
14:50:18 [ChrisW]
agenda+ Test Cases
14:50:31 [ChrisW]
agenda+ Test Cases
14:50:37 [ChrisW]
agenda+ AOB
14:50:41 [ChrisW]
zakim, list agenda
14:50:41 [Zakim]
I see 16 items remaining on the agenda:
14:50:43 [Zakim]
3. Actions [from ChrisW]
14:50:43 [Zakim]
4. Public Comments [from ChrisW]
14:50:44 [Zakim]
5. PR Update [from ChrisW]
14:50:44 [Zakim]
6. RDF Imports [from ChrisW]
14:50:48 [Zakim]
7. RIF Primer [from ChrisW]
14:50:52 [Zakim]
8. Test Cases [from ChrisW]
14:50:57 [Zakim]
9. AOB [from ChrisW]
14:50:59 [Zakim]
10. Admin [from ChrisW]
14:51:01 [Zakim]
11. Liason [from ChrisW]
14:51:01 [ChrisW]
zakim, drop 1-9
14:51:03 [Zakim]
12. Actions [from ChrisW]
14:51:04 [Harold]
Harold has joined #rif
14:51:05 [Zakim]
13. Public Comments [from ChrisW]
14:51:07 [Zakim]
14. List Syntax [from ChrisW]
14:51:09 [Zakim]
15. PR transition update [from ChrisW]
14:51:11 [Zakim]
16. Test Cases [from ChrisW]
14:51:13 [Zakim]
17. Test Cases [from ChrisW]
14:51:15 [Zakim]
18. AOB [from ChrisW]
14:51:17 [Zakim]
sorry, ChrisW, I don't know what conference this is
14:51:27 [ChrisW]
zakim, remove items 1-9
14:51:27 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'remove items 1-9', ChrisW
14:51:37 [ChrisW]
zakim, help
14:51:37 [Zakim]
Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot for more detailed help.
14:51:40 [Zakim]
Some of the commands I know are:
14:51:41 [Zakim]
xxx is yyy - establish yyy as the name of unknown party xxx
14:51:43 [Zakim]
if yyy is 'me' or 'I', your nick is substituted
14:51:45 [Zakim]
xxx may be yyy - establish yyy as possibly the name of unknown party xxx
14:51:48 [Zakim]
I am xxx - establish your nick as the name of unknown party xxx
14:51:51 [Zakim]
xxx holds yyy [, zzz ...] - establish xxx as a group name and yyy, etc. as participants within that group
14:51:54 [Zakim]
xxx also holds yyy - add yyy to the list of participants in group xxx
14:51:56 [Zakim]
who's here? - lists the participants on the phone
14:51:59 [Zakim]
who's muted? - lists the participants who are muted
14:52:02 [Zakim]
mute xxx - mutes party xxx (like pressing 61#)
14:52:06 [Zakim]
unmute xxx - reverses the effect of "mute" and of 61#
14:52:08 [Zakim]
is xxx here? - reports whether a party named like xxx is present
14:52:10 [Zakim]
list conferences - reports the active conferences
14:52:12 [Zakim]
this is xxx - associates this channel with conference xxx
14:52:14 [Zakim]
excuse us - disconnects from the irc channel
14:52:16 [Zakim]
I last learned something new on $Date: 2010/03/15 18:49:04 $
14:52:27 [ChrisW]
zakim, remove item 1-9
14:52:27 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'remove item 1-9', ChrisW
14:52:29 [ChrisW]
zakim, remove item 1
14:52:29 [Zakim]
agendum 1, Admin, dropped
14:52:31 [ChrisW]
zakim, remove item 2
14:52:31 [Zakim]
agendum 2, Liason, dropped
14:52:33 [ChrisW]
zakim, remove item 3
14:52:33 [Zakim]
agendum 3, Actions, dropped
14:52:35 [ChrisW]
zakim, remove item 4
14:52:35 [Zakim]
agendum 4, Public Comments, dropped
14:52:37 [ChrisW]
zakim, remove item 5
14:52:37 [Zakim]
agendum 5, PR Update, dropped
14:52:39 [ChrisW]
zakim, remove item 6
14:52:39 [Zakim]
agendum 6, RDF Imports, dropped
14:52:41 [ChrisW]
zakim, remove item 7
14:52:41 [Zakim]
agendum 7, RIF Primer, dropped
14:52:43 [ChrisW]
zakim, remove item 8
14:52:43 [Zakim]
agendum 8, Test Cases, dropped
14:52:46 [ChrisW]
zakim, remove item 9
14:52:46 [Zakim]
agendum 9, AOB, dropped
14:52:51 [ChrisW]
zakim, you are a loser
14:52:51 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'you are a loser', ChrisW
14:53:18 [ChrisW]
zakim, i am not a loser, YOU are a loser
14:53:18 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'i am not a loser, YOU are a loser', ChrisW
14:53:41 [ChrisW]
zakim, why i am such a loser
14:53:41 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'why i am such a loser', ChrisW
14:53:48 [ChrisW]
hah
14:54:08 [ChrisW]
zakim, list agenda
14:54:08 [Zakim]
I see 9 items remaining on the agenda:
14:54:09 [Zakim]
10. Admin [from ChrisW]
14:54:09 [Zakim]
11. Liason [from ChrisW]
14:54:11 [Zakim]
12. Actions [from ChrisW]
14:54:11 [Zakim]
13. Public Comments [from ChrisW]
14:54:12 [Zakim]
14. List Syntax [from ChrisW]
14:54:14 [Zakim]
15. PR transition update [from ChrisW]
14:54:15 [Zakim]
16. Test Cases [from ChrisW]
14:54:15 [Zakim]
17. Test Cases [from ChrisW]
14:54:17 [Zakim]
18. AOB [from ChrisW]
14:54:24 [ChrisW]
rrsagent, make logs public
14:59:05 [ChrisW]
zakim, next item
14:59:05 [Zakim]
agendum 10. "Admin" taken up [from ChrisW]
14:59:10 [Zakim]
SW_RIF()11:00AM has now started
14:59:11 [Zakim]
+[IBM]
14:59:18 [ChrisW]
zakim, ibm is temporarily me
14:59:18 [Zakim]
+ChrisW; got it
15:02:50 [ChrisW]
Regrets: Christian
15:03:03 [DaveReynolds]
DaveReynolds has joined #rif
15:03:23 [Zakim]
+[NRCC]
15:03:27 [Zakim]
-[NRCC]
15:03:29 [Zakim]
+[NRCC]
15:03:39 [Zakim]
+Sandro
15:03:47 [Zakim]
+??P26
15:04:25 [ChrisW]
scribenick: Harold
15:04:32 [ChrisW]
zakim, who is on the phone?
15:04:41 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ChrisW, [NRCC], Sandro, DaveReynolds
15:04:51 [ChrisW]
zakim, nrcc is Harold
15:04:51 [Zakim]
+Harold; got it
15:05:26 [Zakim]
-Sandro
15:05:38 [ChrisW]
last meeting minutes: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2010May/att-0003/20-rif-minutes.html
15:05:47 [ChrisW]
PROPOSED: Approve minutes of last meeting
15:06:07 [ChrisW]
RESOLVED: Approve minutes of last meeting
15:06:20 [Adrian]
Adrian has joined #rif
15:06:36 [ChrisW]
zakim, next item
15:06:36 [Zakim]
agendum 11. "Liason" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:06:42 [Gary_Hallmark]
Gary_Hallmark has joined #rif
15:06:43 [ChrisW]
sandro??????
15:06:46 [ChrisW]
you coming back?
15:06:58 [Zakim]
+Sandro
15:07:02 [ChrisW]
zakim, close item 11
15:07:02 [Zakim]
agendum 11, Liason, closed
15:07:03 [Zakim]
I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:07:05 [Zakim]
12. Actions [from ChrisW]
15:07:08 [ChrisW]
zakim, next item
15:07:08 [Zakim]
agendum 12. "Actions" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:07:41 [Zakim]
+Gary
15:07:42 [Zakim]
+??P8
15:07:44 [ChrisW]
close action-1003
15:07:44 [trackbot]
ACTION-1003 Copy the OWL text about XSD1.1 to DTB, copying http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/REC-owl2-conformance-20091027/#XML_Schema_Datatypes into DTB 2.3, changing OWL to RIF. closed
15:07:52 [Adrian]
Zakim, ??P8 is me
15:07:52 [Zakim]
+Adrian; got it
15:07:59 [Harold]
close action-1002
15:07:59 [trackbot]
ACTION-1002 Update DTB to remove at-risk features and update change log closed
15:08:39 [Harold]
close action-1000
15:08:39 [trackbot]
ACTION-1000 Update http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-comments/2009Nov/att-0015/RIF-CASPD.html remove "W3C Note" closed
15:09:24 [Zakim]
-Sandro
15:09:27 [Harold]
close action-998
15:09:27 [trackbot]
ACTION-998 Prepare preview drafts closed
15:09:37 [Harold]
close action-969
15:09:38 [trackbot]
ACTION-969 Draft response on public comment JA closed
15:10:08 [ChrisW]
zakim, next item
15:10:08 [Zakim]
agendum 13. "Public Comments" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:10:20 [Zakim]
+Sandro
15:11:05 [ChrisW]
zakim, close item 13
15:11:05 [Zakim]
agendum 13, Public Comments, closed
15:11:06 [Zakim]
I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:11:08 [Zakim]
14. List Syntax [from ChrisW]
15:11:10 [ChrisW]
zakim, next item
15:11:10 [Zakim]
agendum 14. "List Syntax" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:11:30 [Harold]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2010Apr/0032.html
15:11:31 [ChrisW]
PROPOSED: Validate the corrected XML syntax of lists, allowing annotations and aligning with the other constructs.
15:13:20 [DaveReynolds]
+1
15:13:24 [Gary]
+1
15:13:25 [Harold]
+1
15:13:27 [Adrian]
+1
15:13:28 [ChrisW]
Sandro (on phone): +1
15:13:36 [ChrisW]
RESOLVED: Validate the corrected XML syntax of lists, allowing annotations and aligning with the other constructs.
15:13:42 [ChrisW]
zakim, next item
15:13:42 [Zakim]
agendum 15. "PR transition update" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:14:29 [Harold]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/FLD#Appendix:_A_Subframework_for_Herbrand_Semantic_Structures
15:15:11 [Harold]
Chris: Need reviewers
15:15:33 [Harold]
Adrian: Can take a look.
15:15:53 [Harold]
Chris: Next couple of (2?) days.
15:16:02 [ChrisW]
action: Adrian to review new FLD appendix on herbrand structures
15:16:03 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-1007 - Review new FLD appendix on herbrand structures [on Adrian Paschke - due 2010-05-11].
15:16:35 [Harold]
Chris: Conditional on that, we are approved to go to PR.
15:17:10 [Harold]
... Need to get Public Relations out for these Proposed Recommendations.
15:17:29 [Harold]
... Last time we need to drum up interest.
15:17:51 [Harold]
... Make Statements of Support for RIF.
15:18:06 [Harold]
... E.g.: Implementers and Users.
15:18:26 [Harold]
Sandro: Will send email about such 'Testimonials'.
15:18:43 [Harold]
... Everyone who has a product in that space can participate.
15:19:35 [Harold]
Chris: Gary, Christian/Chris need to make PR machinery going.
15:20:19 [Harold]
Sandro: Next week, Tue, W3C will send a msg about this.
15:20:44 [Harold]
... Mid/End of June the Rec could be out.
15:21:06 [Zakim]
-Sandro
15:21:11 [Harold]
Chris: Christian/Chris will give Semech presentations on RIF around that time.
15:21:17 [Zakim]
+Sandro
15:21:32 [Harold]
... Right after that, there will be an RDF workshop.
15:21:42 [Harold]
... If interested, let Chris know.
15:21:49 [ChrisW]
zakim, list agenda
15:21:49 [Zakim]
I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
15:21:51 [Zakim]
15. PR transition update [from ChrisW]
15:21:53 [Zakim]
16. Test Cases [from ChrisW]
15:21:53 [Zakim]
17. Test Cases [from ChrisW]
15:21:55 [Zakim]
18. AOB [from ChrisW]
15:22:06 [ChrisW]
zakim, next item
15:22:06 [Zakim]
agendum 16. "Test Cases" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:22:22 [Harold]
Sandro: May send emails on formatting issues soon.
15:23:19 [Zakim]
+ +43.158.801.1aaaa
15:23:28 [Harold]
Sandro: Process is: Goes to PR next week. Then Advisory Committee need to decide. Rec would then follow.
15:23:56 [Harold]
NRC's AC Rep: Danny d'Amour.
15:25:04 [Harold]
Sandro: Oracle's AC Rep: Dr. Gutentag (formally Sun)
15:26:09 [Harold]
Sandro: Good time for joining W3C, because the 'Testimonials' also help the companies doing them.
15:26:32 [Harold]
Dave: Former HP colleagues, ...
15:27:13 [Harold]
Chris: Contact people who where (formally) in the WG but no longer read WG email.
15:27:36 [Harold]
where->were
15:27:41 [ChrisW]
sandro: send chris an email list of RIF WG members
15:27:50 [ChrisW]
http://www.w3.org/Member/ACList
15:28:32 [Harold]
Sandro: After the PR is announced we should ping these colleagues.
15:28:47 [josb]
josb has joined #rif
15:28:54 [ChrisW]
action: sandro to send chris an email list of RIF WG members
15:28:55 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-1008 - Send chris an email list of RIF WG members [on Sandro Hawke - due 2010-05-11].
15:29:42 [Harold]
Jos: Can also read Herbrand Semantic Structures.
15:29:58 [ChrisW]
action: josb to review Appendix A of FLD
15:29:58 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-1009 - Review Appendix A of FLD [on Jos de Bruijn - due 2010-05-11].
15:32:45 [Harold]
Chris: Started to review proofs of SWC document.
15:32:53 [Harold]
... But am not through yet.
15:33:05 [Harold]
... Notation MIGHT be confused.
15:33:22 [Harold]
... So far haven't found real issue.
15:33:57 [ChrisW]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Fibonacci
15:34:36 [Harold]
Chris: Has no Presentation Syntax.
15:34:55 [Harold]
Jos: All Test cases should have a PS, if only for uniformity.
15:35:19 [Harold]
Dave: Even XML doesn't appear to be there.
15:35:48 [ChrisW]
action: Sandro to try and translate Fibonacci test case to presentation syntax
15:35:48 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-1010 - Try and translate Fibonacci test case to presentation syntax [on Sandro Hawke - due 2010-05-11].
15:36:03 [ChrisW]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/OWL_Combination_Invalid_DL_Formula
15:37:47 [Harold]
Chris: Problem is not the imported but the RIF document itself.
15:38:14 [Harold]
Jos: Both are reasons for rejection.
15:39:29 [Harold]
Sandro: Maybe have two different tests.
15:40:01 [Harold]
Jos: I do it right now.
15:40:37 [Harold]
Sandro: Stella should re-generate the XML later.
15:41:17 [ChrisW]
action: jos to add an import rejection test case for an empty rdf file
15:41:17 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-1011 - Add an import rejection test case for an empty rdf file [on Jos de Bruijn - due 2010-05-11].
15:41:35 [josb]
Ontology()
15:42:08 [sandro]
jos: "ontologies without a name are given a blank node", so it's okay to use _:x rdf:type owl:Ontology.
15:47:56 [Harold]
Jos: Modifier of dialect in the wiki template is not being rendered when you view it.
15:48:35 [ChrisW]
action: josb to review all test cases for use of "importProfile" wiki attribute
15:48:35 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-1012 - Review all test cases for use of "importProfile" wiki attribute [on Jos de Bruijn - due 2010-05-11].
15:48:35 [Harold]
Sandro: Update the wiki template ImportProfile right now.
15:50:14 [ChrisW]
PROPOSED: Approve test case OWL_Combination_Invalid_DL_Formula
15:50:17 [ChrisW]
+1
15:50:19 [DaveReynolds]
+1
15:50:21 [Harold]
+1
15:50:22 [josb]
+1
15:50:37 [sandro]
+1
15:50:39 [Adrian]
+1
15:50:41 [Gary]
+1
15:50:41 [ChrisW]
RESOLVED: Approve test case OWL_Combination_Invalid_DL_Formula
15:50:47 [josb]
I made the test case: OWL_Combination_Invalid_DL_Import
15:50:51 [josb]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/OWL_Combination_Invalid_DL_Import
15:52:35 [ChrisW]
PROPOSED: OWL_Combination_Invalid_DL_Import
15:52:50 [sandro]
+1
15:52:53 [DaveReynolds]
+1
15:53:00 [ChrisW]
+1
15:53:12 [ChrisW]
PROPOSED: Approve test case OWL_Combination_Invalid_DL_Import
15:53:16 [josb]
+1
15:53:17 [Harold]
+1
15:53:20 [Adrian]
+1
15:53:22 [ChrisW]
+1
15:53:25 [Gary]
+1
15:53:27 [DaveReynolds]
+1
15:53:29 [ChrisW]
RESOLVED: Approve test case OWL_Combination_Invalid_DL_Import
15:54:09 [sandro]
RRSAgent, pointer?
15:54:09 [RRSAgent]
See http://www.w3.org/2010/05/04-rif-irc#T15-54-09
15:55:06 [ChrisW]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Ordered_Relations
15:58:07 [Harold]
Chris: SpecRef is BLD but the Dialect is Core.
15:58:46 [Harold]
Sandro: Would use more narrow SpecRef within BLD (where it's actually described).
15:59:41 [sandro]
Gary: lets used 10 instead of "10"^^xs:integer)
15:59:42 [Harold]
Gary: Could we not write 10 instead "10"^^xs:integer ?
16:00:25 [Harold]
Sandro: My tool accepts this PS shortcut.
16:01:27 [sandro]
sandro: how about "positional arguments" instead of "ordered relations"
16:01:35 [sandro]
(general agreement, Chris renames it.)
16:03:27 [sandro]
rename http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Unordered_Relations to Named_Arguments ?
16:04:14 [Adrian]
fine with the change
16:09:16 [Harold]
Dave/Sandro: Names of named arguments can be a string.
16:09:56 [Harold]
Sandro: Parser needs look-ahead until it finds forward arrow or not.
16:11:40 [ChrisW]
PROPOSED: Approve test case Named_Arguments
16:11:43 [ChrisW]
+1
16:11:44 [sandro]
+1
16:11:46 [DaveReynolds]
+1
16:11:47 [Adrian]
+1
16:11:55 [ChrisW]
RESOLVED: Approve test case Named_Arguments
16:12:05 [ChrisW]
RESOLVED: Approve test case Positional_Arguments
16:12:08 [ChrisW]
+1
16:12:12 [sandro]
+1
16:12:16 [Harold]
+1
16:12:19 [DaveReynolds]
+1 :)
16:12:22 [ChrisW]
RESOLVED: Approve test case Positional_Arguments
16:12:23 [josb]
+1
16:12:27 [Gary]
+1
16:12:29 [josb]
+1
16:12:39 [Adrian]
+1
16:12:39 [ChrisW]
rrsagent, pointer?
16:12:39 [RRSAgent]
See http://www.w3.org/2010/05/04-rif-irc#T16-12-39-1
16:15:57 [ChrisW]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Parents
16:16:25 [Harold]
Chris: Another one without PS and with broken links.
16:16:38 [Harold]
Dave: Same for Purchase.
16:16:50 [ChrisW]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/RDF_Combination_Constant_Equivalence_4
16:19:22 [Harold]
Dave: Supposed to illustrate the syntactic difference.
16:19:59 [Harold]
Jos: Make PLAINLITERAL out of it?
16:20:31 [Harold]
... or change it back to string?
16:22:27 [ChrisW]
Proposed: approve test case RDF_Combination_Constant_Equivalence_4
16:22:36 [Harold]
+1
16:22:36 [ChrisW]
+1
16:22:37 [Adrian]
+1
16:22:39 [Gary]
+1
16:22:39 [DaveReynolds]
+1
16:22:45 [ChrisW]
Resolved: approve test case RDF_Combination_Constant_Equivalence_4
16:22:55 [josb]
+1
16:23:03 [ChrisW]
zakim, next item
16:23:03 [Zakim]
agendum 17. "Test Cases" taken up [from ChrisW]
16:23:10 [ChrisW]
zakim, list agenda
16:23:10 [Zakim]
I see 2 items remaining on the agenda:
16:23:11 [Zakim]
17. Test Cases [from ChrisW]
16:23:11 [Zakim]
18. AOB [from ChrisW]
16:23:18 [ChrisW]
zakim, list attendees
16:23:18 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been ChrisW, Sandro, DaveReynolds, Harold, Gary, Adrian, +43.158.801.1aaaa, josb
16:23:26 [Zakim]
-Adrian
16:23:31 [ChrisW]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:23:31 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/04-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
16:23:32 [Zakim]
-Gary
16:23:42 [Zakim]
-josb
16:23:48 [Zakim]
-DaveReynolds
16:24:21 [Zakim]
-Harold
16:24:28 [Zakim]
-ChrisW
16:27:11 [ChrisW]
ChrisW has joined #rif
17:04:11 [Zakim]
-Sandro
17:04:12 [Zakim]
SW_RIF()11:00AM has ended
17:04:14 [Zakim]
Attendees were ChrisW, Sandro, DaveReynolds, Harold, Gary, Adrian, +43.158.801.1aaaa, josb