IRC log of fx on 2010-05-03

Timestamps are in UTC.

19:58:37 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #fx
19:58:37 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/05/03-fx-irc
19:58:39 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
19:58:39 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #fx
19:58:41 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 3983
19:58:41 [Zakim]
I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
19:58:42 [trackbot]
Meeting: CSS-SVG Task Force Teleconference
19:58:42 [trackbot]
Date: 03 May 2010
20:00:20 [shepazu]
Zakim, this will be FX
20:00:20 [Zakim]
I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, shepazu
20:00:31 [ChrisL]
zakim, room for 10?
20:00:31 [shepazu]
Zakim, code?
20:00:32 [Zakim]
ok, ChrisL; conference Team_(fx)20:00Z scheduled with code 26632 (CONF2) for 60 minutes until 2100Z
20:00:34 [Zakim]
the conference code is 26632 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), shepazu
20:00:56 [ChrisL]
ChrisL has changed the topic to: code today is 26632
20:01:26 [Zakim]
Team_(fx)20:00Z has now started
20:01:33 [Zakim]
+??P2
20:01:36 [Zakim]
+Shepazu
20:01:40 [ed]
Zakim, ?? is me
20:01:40 [Zakim]
+ed; got it
20:02:08 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
20:02:16 [anthony]
Zakim, [IP is me
20:02:16 [Zakim]
+anthony; got it
20:02:26 [Zakim]
+ +39.524.9.aaaa
20:02:28 [smfr]
smfr has joined #fx
20:02:36 [ChrisL]
zakim, +39 is me
20:02:36 [Zakim]
+ChrisL; got it
20:02:42 [smfr]
i can't get dialin to work
20:02:45 [ed]
Zakim, code?
20:02:45 [Zakim]
the conference code is 26632 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), ed
20:03:05 [shepazu]
smfr: the conference code is 26632
20:03:19 [Zakim]
+smfr
20:03:27 [smfr]
ah, was looking at the email
20:04:00 [Zakim]
+ +1.617.584.aabb
20:04:26 [f1lt3r]
hey, im in
20:05:35 [Zakim]
+??P8
20:05:42 [fantasai]
Zakim, ??P8 is fantasai
20:05:42 [Zakim]
+fantasai; got it
20:06:40 [ed]
Zakim, who's here?
20:06:40 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ed, Shepazu, anthony, ChrisL, smfr, +1.617.584.aabb, fantasai
20:06:43 [ChrisL]
code today is 26632
20:06:44 [Zakim]
On IRC I see smfr, Zakim, RRSAgent, ChrisL, ed, plinss_, f1lt3r, shepazu, fantasai, tabatkins, TabAtkins_, anthony, plinss, trackbot
20:06:47 [smfr]
smfr has joined #fx
20:07:07 [Zakim]
+ +1.858.655.aacc
20:07:15 [shepazu]
Zakim, who's here?
20:07:15 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ed, Shepazu, anthony, ChrisL, smfr, +1.617.584.aabb, fantasai, +1.858.655.aacc
20:07:17 [Zakim]
On IRC I see smfr, Zakim, RRSAgent, ChrisL, ed, plinss_, f1lt3r, shepazu, fantasai, tabatkins, TabAtkins_, anthony, plinss, trackbot
20:07:23 [plinss_]
zakim, aacc is me
20:07:23 [Zakim]
+plinss_; got it
20:07:25 [shepazu]
Zakim, aabb is Al MacDonald
20:07:25 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'aabb is Al MacDonald', shepazu
20:07:36 [ed]
Zakim, 1.617.584.aabb is Al MacDonald
20:07:36 [Zakim]
I don't understand '1.617.584.aabb is Al MacDonald', ed
20:08:18 [ChrisL]
scribe: Chris
20:08:25 [ChrisL]
ScribeNick: ChrisL
20:08:29 [ed]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-fx/2010AprJun/0034.html
20:08:32 [ChrisL]
Topic: Intros
20:09:06 [ChrisL]
(people introduce themselves)
20:09:49 [smfr]
is al on irc?
20:11:48 [ChrisL]
zakim, list attendees
20:11:48 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been Shepazu, ed, [IPcaller], anthony, +39.524.9.aaaa, ChrisL, smfr, +1.617.584.aabb, fantasai, +1.858.655.aacc, plinss_
20:12:48 [ed]
Zakim, +1.617 is al macdonald
20:12:48 [Zakim]
I don't understand '+1.617 is al macdonald', ed
20:13:18 [ChrisL]
Topic: 'image-fit' vs preserveAspectRatio
20:13:18 [ChrisL]
regrets: Tab, Dean
20:13:32 [fantasai]
zakim, aabb is al_macdonald
20:13:32 [Zakim]
+al_macdonald; got it
20:13:38 [ChrisL]
http://www.w3.org/mid/25829533.20100331230050@w3.org
20:13:39 [dbaron]
dbaron has joined #fx
20:13:57 [fantasai]
ChrisL: There's been a bit of to-and-fro about the naming of these properties
20:14:02 [ChrisL]
object-fit: fill | cover | contain
20:14:02 [ChrisL]
object-position: <bg-pos>
20:14:02 [ChrisL]
'
20:14:18 [fantasai]
ChrisL: That's the most recent proposal from the CSSWG
20:14:25 [Zakim]
+[Mozilla]
20:14:42 [f1lt3r]
i am al :)
20:14:47 [ChrisL]
elika: bg-pos allows you to position an image from a box
20:15:02 [ChrisL]
consistent with background-position in CSS
20:15:08 [fantasai]
s/from/in/
20:15:26 [ChrisL]
e.g. to left, 20% 80%
20:15:33 [ChrisL]
s/to/top/
20:15:40 [ChrisL]
rrsagent, here
20:15:40 [RRSAgent]
See http://www.w3.org/2010/05/03-fx-irc#T20-15-40
20:15:57 [ChrisL]
doug: depencdency on box model?
20:16:00 [ChrisL]
elika: none
20:16:09 [ChrisL]
... its just the names
20:16:23 [ChrisL]
erik: read minutes, seem to have had 4 proposals for naming
20:16:37 [ChrisL]
... would be fine with object-fit and object-position
20:16:47 [ChrisL]
.... liked others better but fine with this one
20:16:57 [ChrisL]
... fit-position would have been first choice
20:17:12 [ChrisL]
elika: proposals were in pairs, so what would the other property be called
20:17:42 [ChrisL]
erik: fit-scale. ... ok not perfect either
20:17:55 [ChrisL]
doug: objec t-fit ok with me
20:18:17 [ChrisL]
chris: ok with these names too
20:19:00 [ChrisL]
(no objections to proposed names)
20:19:37 [ChrisL]
resolved: svg will accept the css proposal of object-fit and object-position
20:19:43 [smfr]
sweeping bird poop, by the sound of it
20:19:53 [fantasai]
ACTION fantasai edit css3-images with resolution
20:19:54 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-3 - Edit css3-images with resolution [on Elika Etemad - due 2010-05-10].
20:19:58 [ChrisL]
zakim, mute doug's birds
20:19:58 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'mute doug's birds', ChrisL
20:20:10 [ChrisL]
topic: transitions of CSS images (including gradients)
20:20:47 [ChrisL]
simon: this is my proposal. web authors can animate links and colours but can't do cross fades between images and especiall gradients
20:20:57 [smfr]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-fx/2010AprJun/0007.html
20:21:27 [ChrisL]
simon: new functional notation lets you do wipe or grossfade, or opocity or a filter
20:21:46 [ChrisL]
... its making a synthetic image that can be used anywhere in css
20:22:03 [ChrisL]
... gradient interoplation is kind of a side issue
20:22:22 [ChrisL]
... if accepted, will write a proposal
20:22:29 [F1LT3R_]
F1LT3R_ has joined #fx
20:22:29 [ChrisL]
elika: could go in the images draft
20:22:56 [ChrisL]
doug: loks good so far, would like to see it in the draft to see it in context
20:22:58 [F1LT3R_]
could i get that link again?
20:23:12 [ChrisL]
simon: infinite range of effects, so how to bound it
20:23:48 [ChrisL]
simon: could use svg filters
20:24:05 [ChrisL]
... need a set of wipes/fades
20:24:14 [ChrisL]
erik: could do that using filters too
20:24:32 [smfr]
http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/REC-SMIL2-20050107/smil-transitions.html#TransitionEffects-Appendix
20:24:32 [ChrisL]
anthony; some video editing apps have a set of crossfade effects
20:24:42 [ChrisL]
chris: smil has a set from video editing
20:24:49 [ChrisL]
simon: too big a list
20:25:04 [ChrisL]
anthon: canned list is very extensive
20:25:34 [ChrisL]
simon: can have canned effects but also a fiunction to transform an image
20:25:44 [ed]
erik: mapping more than one input image from css syntax in terms of svg filters is possible, if you want to define it that way (e.g several feImage elements, or new filter input image-keywords)
20:25:49 [ChrisL]
doug: canned effects as syntactic sugar
20:25:58 [ChrisL]
anthony: so zoom into images?
20:26:11 [ChrisL]
simon: yes, and rotates. wipe is a translation
20:26:42 [ChrisL]
chris: like them all defined and then shorthand for common ones
20:27:10 [ChrisL]
anthony: need to describe the underlying rendering model. all rendered to an image. need to be clear on how it composites
20:27:25 [ChrisL]
simon: risk of over complex functions which are hard to author
20:27:44 [ChrisL]
doug: if the primitives are the underlying part we can optimise
20:28:13 [ChrisL]
simon: suppose you have a high-level push. but a more complext one would have theee or four levels of nesting
20:28:39 [anthony]
s/theee/three/
20:29:03 [ChrisL]
chris: ok to make the common things easy and the complex things possible
20:29:26 [ChrisL]
doug: need some good examles, especially if there are things that will be outside what we plan to do
20:29:55 [ChrisL]
action: simon to draft examples for transitions of css images on a wiki
20:29:55 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-4 - Draft examples for transitions of css images on a wiki [on Simon Fraser - due 2010-05-10].
20:30:28 [ChrisL]
doug: if its on a wiki we can all contribute
20:30:42 [ChrisL]
action simon to implement the whole web
20:30:42 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-5 - Implement the whole web [on Simon Fraser - due 2010-05-10].
20:31:02 [ChrisL]
close action-5
20:31:02 [trackbot]
ACTION-5 Implement the whole web closed
20:31:06 [smfr]
heh
20:31:09 [smfr]
phew
20:31:32 [ChrisL]
topic: svg/css merged transforms spec
20:31:43 [ChrisL]
erik: any progress on that?
20:32:04 [ChrisL]
anthony: committed a merged spec but its very vasic and needs work. need help with it
20:32:14 [smfr]
anthony: is it this? http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG-Transforms/
20:32:20 [ChrisL]
... need somewhere to put it
20:33:35 [ChrisL]
action chris to make an fx area on dev.w3.org
20:33:35 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-6 - Make an fx area on dev.w3.org [on Chris Lilley - due 2010-05-10].
20:33:46 [ChrisL]
anthony: no, starting with the 2d ones
20:34:11 [ChrisL]
action doug to ask for an FX wiki
20:34:11 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-7 - Ask for an FX wiki [on Doug Schepers - due 2010-05-10].
20:34:25 [shepazu]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/fx/track/
20:35:25 [ChrisL]
topic: harmonizing CSSMatrix and SVGMatrix (2D)
20:35:45 [ChrisL]
simon: css matrixc was wrong and svg was right so we have corrected that
20:36:28 [ed]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-fx/2010AprJun/0022.html
20:36:30 [ChrisL]
.... the way we implemented css matrix multioply, needed to do a mult right not mult left
20:36:45 [ChrisL]
... that change is now in webkit. no other changes are needed.
20:37:02 [ChrisL]
... we use row major because C++ does that
20:37:14 [ChrisL]
... spec needs to be updated. removed multiply-left
20:37:34 [ChrisL]
... pseudocode is in c/c++ style, need to be more explicit to be column major
20:37:52 [ChrisL]
anthony: doesn;t matter on internal format as long as spec gives right results
20:37:52 [dbaron]
Talking about left and right is a bit painful because they have opposite meanings with row-major and column-major
20:38:18 [ChrisL]
... ok with actual matrix examples. should clarify that internal format is implementor chpice
20:38:47 [ChrisL]
chris: agree with david
20:39:10 [ChrisL]
david; cairo and mozilla do it the opposite way round for example
20:39:20 [dbaron]
cairo and the spec, anyway
20:39:31 [dbaron]
and in some places mozilla follows the spec and in some follows cairo
20:39:53 [ChrisL]
erik; dom interfaces have access properties, will these be the same?
20:39:57 [ChrisL]
simon: yes
20:40:10 [ChrisL]
... so spec will be updated to use the svg notation
20:41:14 [ChrisL]
simon: remaining piece is decomposition pseudocode, - can leave it and say it refers to coloumn-major, or replace it with the actual math
20:42:18 [ChrisL]
chris: ok to keep pseudocode as long as its prefaced by an explanation of the two ways to do it
20:42:44 [ChrisL]
actiuon: simon add explanatory material about row and column major options to spec
20:42:54 [ChrisL]
actiion: simon add explanatory material about row and column major options to spec
20:43:05 [ChrisL]
action: simon add explanatory material about row and column major options to spec
20:43:05 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-8 - Add explanatory material about row and column major options to spec [on Simon Fraser - due 2010-05-10].
20:43:25 [ed]
s/dom interfaces have access properties/the SVG/CSSMatrix dom interfaces have access properties [a-f] for matrix values/
20:43:50 [ChrisL]
topic: next telcon
20:44:01 [shepazu]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/fx/wiki/Main_Page
20:44:13 [ChrisL]
simon: prefer biweekly andf 60 minutes
20:44:23 [smfr]
"The URL path in your request doesn't match anything we have available."
20:44:38 [ChrisL]
(general agreement on 60 minutes biweekly)
20:46:01 [ChrisL]
action: chris to book a regular biweekly telcon
20:46:01 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-9 - Book a regular biweekly telcon [on Chris Lilley - due 2010-05-10].
20:46:57 [ChrisL]
elika: simin mentioned a colur function, what is it for?
20:47:06 [ChrisL]
s/colur/colour/
20:47:17 [ChrisL]
david: for cross fade t a solid colour
20:47:34 [ChrisL]
elika: why not just put a colour value directly?
20:47:47 [ChrisL]
simon: ambiguity in background shorthand
20:48:09 [ChrisL]
... will see if we can do just a colour
20:48:20 [ChrisL]
elika: or wrap in image notation
20:49:16 [ChrisL]
doug: will transitions also work with svg, withing svg and also for svg images used as backgrounds in html?
20:49:43 [ChrisL]
simon: will work on animatable css properties, and will work with svg images same as any other image
20:49:48 [ChrisL]
erik: agree
20:49:59 [ChrisL]
zakim, list attendees?
20:49:59 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, ChrisL.
20:50:11 [ChrisL]
doug: does the spec make it clear that this is allowed?
20:50:17 [ChrisL]
zakim, list attendees
20:50:17 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been Shepazu, ed, [IPcaller], anthony, +39.524.9.aaaa, ChrisL, smfr, +1.617.584.aabb, fantasai, +1.858.655.aacc, plinss_, al_macdonald, dbaron
20:50:37 [ChrisL]
adjourned
20:50:46 [Zakim]
-[Mozilla]
20:50:47 [ChrisL]
rrsagent, make minutes
20:50:47 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/05/03-fx-minutes.html ChrisL
20:50:49 [Zakim]
-ed
20:50:51 [Zakim]
-ChrisL
20:50:53 [Zakim]
-smfr
20:50:54 [Zakim]
-plinss_
20:50:56 [Zakim]
-fantasai
20:51:00 [Zakim]
-anthony
21:01:36 [Zakim]
-al_macdonald
21:01:45 [Zakim]
-Shepazu
21:01:46 [Zakim]
Team_(fx)20:00Z has ended
21:01:48 [Zakim]
Attendees were Shepazu, ed, [IPcaller], anthony, +39.524.9.aaaa, ChrisL, smfr, +1.617.584.aabb, fantasai, +1.858.655.aacc, plinss_, al_macdonald, dbaron
21:02:01 [dbaron]
dbaron has left #fx
21:06:32 [smfr]
smfr has left #fx