IRC log of dap on 2010-04-28

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:46:11 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #dap
13:46:11 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/04/28-dap-irc
13:46:13 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
13:46:13 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #dap
13:46:15 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be DAP
13:46:15 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see UW_DAP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 14 minutes
13:46:16 [trackbot]
Meeting: Device APIs and Policy Working Group Teleconference
13:46:16 [trackbot]
Date: 28 April 2010
13:46:26 [fjh]
Regrets: John_Morris
13:46:37 [fjh]
Chair: Robin_Berjon, Frederick_Hirsch
13:46:46 [fjh]
Present: Robin_Berjon, Frederick_Hirsch
13:47:28 [fjh]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Apr/0093.html
13:48:56 [fjh]
Regrets+ WonSuk Lee
13:49:15 [fjh]
Regrets- WonSuk Lee
13:49:25 [fjh]
Regrets+ WonSuk_Lee
13:54:26 [ericanewland]
ericanewland has joined #dap
13:55:32 [Zakim]
UW_DAP()10:00AM has now started
13:55:39 [Zakim]
+alissa
13:55:52 [Suresh]
Suresh has joined #dap
13:56:54 [marengo]
marengo has joined #dap
13:57:35 [alissa]
alissa has joined #dap
13:57:39 [ericanewland]
zakim, alissa is enewland
13:57:42 [Zakim]
+enewland; got it
13:59:07 [AnssiK]
AnssiK has joined #dap
13:59:10 [Zakim]
+??P0
13:59:17 [fjh]
zakim, ??P0 is me
13:59:17 [Zakim]
+fjh; got it
13:59:27 [LauraA]
LauraA has joined #dap
13:59:29 [fjh]
Present+ Erica_Newland
13:59:34 [fjh]
zakim, who is here?
13:59:34 [Zakim]
On the phone I see enewland, fjh
13:59:35 [Zakim]
On IRC I see LauraA, AnssiK, alissa, marengo, Suresh, ericanewland, Zakim, RRSAgent, Marcos, darobin, maxf, arve, fjh, ingmar, ilkka, lgombos, dom, trackbot
13:59:46 [Zakim]
+AnssiK
13:59:48 [LauraA]
Present+ LauraA
13:59:53 [Zakim]
+ +1.202.436.aaaa
13:59:56 [AnssiK]
Present+ Anssi_Kostiainen
14:00:01 [alissa]
Present+ Alissa_Cooper
14:00:02 [Zakim]
+??P1
14:00:18 [drogersuk]
drogersuk has joined #dap
14:00:27 [drogersuk]
present+ David_Rogers
14:00:43 [Zakim]
+Dom
14:00:43 [Zakim]
+ilkka
14:00:53 [dom]
Present+ Dominique_Hazael-Massieux
14:00:55 [fjh]
zakim, who is making noise?
14:00:55 [dom]
zakim, mute me
14:00:55 [Zakim]
Dom should now be muted
14:00:57 [Zakim]
+suresh
14:01:05 [Zakim]
fjh, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: fjh (34%), ??P6 (7%)
14:01:14 [fjh]
zakim, who is here?
14:01:14 [Zakim]
On the phone I see enewland, fjh, AnssiK, +1.202.436.aaaa, ??P1, Dom (muted), ilkka, suresh
14:01:14 [ilkka]
Present+ Ilkka_Oksanen
14:01:17 [Zakim]
On IRC I see drogersuk, LauraA, AnssiK, alissa, marengo, Suresh, enewland, Zakim, RRSAgent, Marcos, darobin, maxf, arve, fjh, ingmar, ilkka, lgombos, dom, trackbot
14:01:19 [Zakim]
+darobin
14:01:32 [Suresh]
Present+ Suresh_Chitturi
14:02:30 [Zakim]
+ +0777541aabb
14:02:30 [alissa]
zakim, +1.202.436.aaaa is alissa
14:02:31 [Zakim]
+alissa; got it
14:02:54 [fjh]
zakim, who is here?
14:02:54 [Zakim]
On the phone I see enewland, fjh, AnssiK, alissa, ??P1, Dom (muted), ilkka, suresh, darobin, +0777541aabb
14:02:57 [Zakim]
On IRC I see drogersuk, LauraA, AnssiK, alissa, marengo, Suresh, enewland, Zakim, RRSAgent, Marcos, darobin, maxf, arve, fjh, ingmar, ilkka, lgombos, dom, trackbot
14:03:01 [Zakim]
+ +1.425.214.aacc
14:03:17 [LauraA]
zakim, +07775441aabb is LauraA
14:03:17 [Zakim]
sorry, LauraA, I do not recognize a party named '+07775441aabb'
14:03:18 [fjh]
zakim, aacc is Bryan
14:03:19 [Zakim]
+Bryan; got it
14:03:32 [LauraA]
zakim, +0777541aabb is LauraA
14:03:32 [Zakim]
+LauraA; got it
14:03:39 [fjh]
zakim, ??P1 is drogers
14:03:39 [Zakim]
+drogers; got it
14:03:41 [Claes]
Claes has joined #dap
14:03:43 [fjh]
zakim, who is here?
14:03:43 [Zakim]
On the phone I see enewland, fjh, AnssiK, alissa, drogers, Dom (muted), ilkka, suresh, darobin, LauraA, Bryan
14:03:45 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Claes, drogersuk, LauraA, AnssiK, alissa, marengo, Suresh, enewland, Zakim, RRSAgent, Marcos, darobin, maxf, arve, fjh, ingmar, ilkka, lgombos, dom, trackbot
14:03:58 [Claes]
Present+ Claes_Nilsson
14:04:35 [alissa]
ok
14:04:49 [nwidell]
nwidell has joined #dap
14:04:53 [alissa]
scribenick: alissa
14:05:11 [alissa]
topic: Admin
14:05:27 [fjh]
Privacy workshop, Mon/Tue 12-13 July 2010, London
14:05:27 [alissa]
Privacy workshop, Mon/Tue 12-13 July 2010, London
14:05:32 [Zakim]
+Claes
14:05:41 [alissa]
http://www.w3.org/2010/api-privacy-ws/
14:06:06 [alissa]
fjh: our F2F is now starting Weds, July 14
14:06:11 [maoteo]
maoteo has joined #dap
14:06:13 [Zakim]
+[T-Systems]
14:06:29 [Zakim]
+ +39.011.228.aadd
14:06:34 [nwidell]
Present+ Niklas_Widell
14:06:42 [alissa]
drogersuk: OMTP is flexible with hosting
14:06:44 [marengo]
Zakim, aadd is me
14:06:44 [Zakim]
+marengo; got it
14:06:49 [marengo]
Zakim, mute me
14:06:49 [Zakim]
marengo should now be muted
14:06:54 [drogersuk]
http://www.ceop.gov.uk/
14:07:06 [alissa]
... also arranging a visit to CEOP one evening of F2F
14:07:08 [maoteo]
present+ Maria_Oteo
14:07:08 [marengo]
Present+ Marco_Marengo
14:07:09 [nwidell]
(will be IRC only first 30 minutes of this call
14:07:47 [drogersuk]
potentially we could setup two separate visits, but these will not infringe directly on the meetings - they would be after
14:08:05 [dom]
frederick: not sure if we should have a 2 or 3 days meeting
14:08:23 [Zakim]
-alissa
14:08:26 [dom]
... probably won't need to discuss privacy given that we'll have discussed it for two days during the workshop before
14:08:31 [dom]
Bryan: I suggest going for 3 days
14:08:39 [dom]
... our F2F meetings are fairly productive
14:08:48 [AnssiK]
personally I'm not avail for Fri
14:08:51 [dom]
Robin: suggests 2.5 days to allow for people to leave early on Friday
14:08:57 [Zakim]
+ +34.68.697.aaee
14:09:06 [Zakim]
+alissa
14:09:10 [ingmar]
present+ Ingmar_Kliche
14:09:15 [dom]
... re privacy, I'm hoping we'll get new input from the workshop that will be worth processing
14:09:27 [dom]
Frederick: does anybody have a problem with 2.5 days?
14:09:52 [dom]
David: we can accommodate for that one way or another re hosting
14:10:57 [dom]
i/frederick:/ScribeNick: dom/
14:11:10 [dom]
RESOLUTION: Next F2F on July 14 to 16 in London
14:11:11 [Suresh]
does it end at 12:00noon on the 3rd day?
14:11:43 [dom]
RESOLUTION: Next F2F on July 14 to 16 in London, ending at 2 or 3pm on Friday
14:11:56 [dom]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:11:56 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/04/28-dap-minutes.html dom
14:12:18 [fjh]
rrsagent, where am i?
14:12:18 [RRSAgent]
See http://www.w3.org/2010/04/28-dap-irc#T14-12-18
14:12:55 [dom]
frederick: our hosts will need to look into lunch & logistics
14:13:18 [dom]
(note that attendance at the workshop requires sending a position paper)
14:13:31 [dom]
Topic: Minutes approval
14:13:35 [fjh]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Apr/att-0080/minutes-2010-04-21.html
14:13:43 [fjh]
21 April 2010
14:13:50 [dom]
RESOLUTION: Minutes of April 21st approved
14:13:59 [alissa]
alissa has joined #dap
14:14:06 [dom]
ScribeNick: alissa
14:14:14 [alissa]
sorry my Internet crapped out
14:14:33 [fjh]
Policy requirements and framework
14:14:50 [fjh]
http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/policy-reqs/
14:15:07 [fjh]
action: fjh to review policy requirements and propose changes
14:15:07 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-166 - Review policy requirements and propose changes [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2010-05-05].
14:15:11 [soonho]
soonho has joined #dap
14:15:19 [fjh]
http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/policy/
14:15:24 [alissa]
will resume scribing now
14:15:48 [fjh]
layering model considerations can move to requirements doc?
14:16:07 [alissa]
fjh: Laura still needs to add trust domain stuff from Nokia
14:16:37 [alissa]
Laura: still working on it
14:17:01 [alissa]
... maybe done early next week
14:17:31 [alissa]
fjh: two different things in document
14:17:38 [alissa]
... 1 model of how security works
14:17:44 [alissa]
... 2 detailed XACML profile
14:17:55 [alissa]
... 1 very tied to 2
14:18:06 [Zakim]
+maxf
14:18:25 [alissa]
... XACML could be its own doc
14:18:27 [Claes]
Claes has joined #dap
14:18:32 [maxf]
zakim, mute me
14:18:32 [Zakim]
maxf should now be muted
14:18:44 [alissa]
... but issues still lie in model piece
14:18:54 [dom]
q+
14:19:08 [alissa]
... maybe need some layering to separate out XACML
14:19:17 [dom]
ack me
14:19:21 [fjh]
ack dom
14:19:40 [alissa]
dom: no problem with the length, but perhaps the scope
14:19:58 [fjh]
we might want to split framework into model and separate xacml profile document
14:20:06 [maoteo]
do you hear a strange sound?
14:20:57 [Zakim]
-Dom
14:21:31 [Zakim]
+Dom
14:22:09 [alissa]
... rules lang, ID model, model for environment, capacities model,policy decision model -- lots of stuff
14:22:27 [alissa]
... makes it harder to get reviews, to get browsers to look at it, etc.
14:22:28 [soonho]
Present+ Soonho_Lee
14:22:48 [dom]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Apr/0030.html Dom's comment on policy framework
14:23:03 [alissa]
fjh: could make XACML part separate pretty easily
14:23:12 [alissa]
... not a whole lot in the rest of the doc
14:23:23 [alissa]
... need suggestions on way forward
14:23:50 [dom]
ACTION: Dom to make a concrete proposal for policy framework based on his comments http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Apr/0030.html
14:23:50 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-167 - Make a concrete proposal for policy framework based on his comments http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Apr/0030.html [on Dominique Hazaël-Massieux - due 2010-05-05].
14:23:52 [dom]
zakim, mute me
14:23:52 [Zakim]
Dom should now be muted
14:23:56 [alissa]
... next step: Laura to finish, others to think about way forward
14:24:09 [fjh]
comment from Claes
14:24:10 [fjh]
<http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Apr/0084.html
14:25:31 [alissa]
Claes: tables defining the subject attributes -- didn't understand
14:25:36 [fjh]
http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/policy/#subject-attributes
14:26:11 [Suresh]
q+
14:26:26 [alissa]
Laura: have not had time to respond yet
14:26:59 [alissa]
Claes: important to be able to identify a unique web application, not just domain
14:27:12 [dom]
(this is an example of why identity in itself is probably worth a spec on its own :)
14:27:30 [alissa]
fjh: will take this to the list
14:27:30 [fjh]
identity is one area to call out
14:27:54 [fjh]
ack Suresh
14:28:28 [alissa]
Suresh: sent an email awhile ago asking how the warp (?) spec in widgets group is relevant to policy
14:28:55 [alissa]
... if you run this against widget environment, widget config will come into effect
14:28:56 [fjh]
http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/CR-widgets-access-20100420/
14:29:32 [alissa]
fjh: old answer was that warp was an intermediate thing, but we should look at it
14:29:51 [alissa]
darobin: warp is in CR
14:30:06 [alissa]
... it's one use case, so if policy doesn't cover what warp does, that's a problem
14:30:18 [alissa]
Suresh: couldn't we just reference it?
14:30:31 [alissa]
darobin: it's fine to redefine it
14:30:52 [alissa]
... otherwise might have to caveat warp out
14:31:02 [fjh]
s/thing/specification/
14:31:14 [fjh]
s/, but/- /
14:31:23 [alissa]
Suresh: if we can reference it, we should
14:31:26 [fjh]
s/old answer/answer/
14:31:41 [alissa]
darobin: not sure how reusable warp is, not certain
14:31:56 [fjh]
issue: note relationship of WARP to DAP policy work
14:31:56 [trackbot]
Created ISSUE-83 - Note relationship of WARP to DAP policy work ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/83/edit .
14:32:11 [alissa]
topic: Privacy
14:32:13 [Suresh]
q-
14:32:23 [fjh]
privacy requirements
14:32:24 [fjh]
http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/privacy-reqs/
14:32:38 [fjh]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Apr/0088.html
14:34:12 [fjh]
this draft fills in details, removes ambiguous language and adds new requirements
14:34:19 [fjh]
this could impact API work
14:35:52 [dom]
q+
14:35:55 [dom]
ack me
14:35:57 [fjh]
ack dom
14:36:38 [dom]
zakim, mute me
14:36:38 [Zakim]
Dom should now be muted
14:37:03 [alissa]
ACTION: Alissa to incorporate edits into Privacy Requirements.
14:37:03 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-168 - Incorporate edits into Privacy Requirements. [on Alissa Cooper - due 2010-05-05].
14:37:21 [alissa]
q+
14:37:37 [dom]
q?
14:37:41 [dom]
ack alissa
14:37:45 [fjh]
ack alissa
14:41:12 [dom]
(I had trouble with the interpretation of "mutually exclusive" in Alissa's response; I think we should talk about subsetting relationships rather)
14:41:20 [alissa]
fjh: had some placeholder text for APIs
14:41:24 [fjh]
ACTION-116?
14:41:24 [trackbot]
ACTION-116 -- Bryan Sullivan to provide input on DCO mapping for SysInfo -- due 2010-03-24 -- OPEN
14:41:24 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/116
14:41:35 [fjh]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Apr/0086.html
14:41:44 [dom]
ACTION-114?
14:41:44 [trackbot]
ACTION-114 -- Alissa Cooper to phrase the temporary privacy section -- due 2010-03-23 -- PENDINGREVIEW
14:41:44 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/114
14:41:46 [fjh]
ACTION-114?
14:41:46 [trackbot]
ACTION-114 -- Alissa Cooper to phrase the temporary privacy section -- due 2010-03-23 -- PENDINGREVIEW
14:41:46 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/114
14:41:58 [darobin]
[yeah, that's part of what I was thinking about — but I need to ground those ideas in examples to see if it would make sense]
14:42:02 [alissa]
... can editors put in the text?
14:42:23 [soonho]
(I am attending this conference call only via IRC.)
14:43:23 [alissa]
ACTION: Frederick to insert temporary privacy language into the APIs.
14:43:24 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-169 - Insert temporary privacy language into the APIs. [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2010-05-05].
14:43:41 [alissa]
topic: API discussion
14:43:51 [darobin]
ACTION-142?
14:43:51 [trackbot]
ACTION-142 -- Max Froumentin to propose two interfaces Outgoing and Incoming messages for messaging API -- due 2010-03-25 -- PENDINGREVIEW
14:43:51 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/142
14:44:14 [alissa]
darobin: hasn't been much feedback on this -- should we go ahead with it?
14:44:24 [darobin]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Apr/0079.html
14:44:39 [alissa]
Suresh: don't see why we want to split into incoming and outgoing
14:45:02 [alissa]
... only distinguished by send
14:45:25 [alissa]
... if we split will need interface for draft message, e.g.
14:45:55 [maxf]
zakim, unmute me
14:45:55 [Zakim]
maxf should no longer be muted
14:46:19 [dom]
-> http://www.w3.org/2010/03/18-dap-minutes#item01 Messaging API discussions at the F2F
14:46:36 [alissa]
maxf: I don't have insight into which way we're going, just need to make a choice
14:46:41 [dom]
q+
14:46:42 [alissa]
... don't have a strong opinion
14:46:44 [dom]
ack me
14:47:19 [alissa]
dom: we had the distinction because incoming should be read-only
14:47:31 [alissa]
... send on incoming doesn't make any sense
14:47:53 [Zakim]
+ +04610715aaff
14:48:11 [alissa]
... maybe incoming/outgoing is misleading; it should be about whether it will be sent
14:48:20 [alissa]
... distinction has value
14:48:27 [Claes]
Claes has joined #dap
14:48:38 [alissa]
darobin: same intf with different rules?
14:48:41 [nwidell]
zakim, aaff is nwidell
14:48:41 [Zakim]
+nwidell; got it
14:48:51 [alissa]
Suresh: have exception on send for incoming
14:49:07 [maxf]
the proposal I had: http://www.w3.org/mid/4BD04FAA.2010107@opera.com
14:49:07 [alissa]
... can address use case with what we have
14:49:29 [maxf]
ah, no.
14:49:40 [alissa]
darobin: might want to filter received messages to make them readable
14:49:56 [alissa]
bryan: messages should be editable in the inbox
14:49:59 [maxf]
http://www.w3.org/mid/4BCF032E.9050900@opera.com
14:50:16 [alissa]
... once you've stored a message, you need an ID to edit
14:50:40 [alissa]
... the attributes end up becoming similar between the two
14:50:47 [alissa]
... although there are exceptions
14:51:26 [alissa]
darobin: hearing more arguments in favor of single interface
14:51:45 [alissa]
Suresh: once we have folder management, we can come back to this
14:52:15 [alissa]
darobin: not strongly tied to folders
14:52:32 [alissa]
... sent mail folder is more of an implementation detail
14:52:48 [alissa]
Suresh: can tag msgs as sent or received
14:53:27 [alissa]
darobin: if object fields are similar, it's a small decision between object type and type flag
14:53:41 [alissa]
... hearing stronger consensus for single interface
14:54:38 [alissa]
dom: already have a type flag
14:54:45 [alissa]
... need to disambiguate names
14:54:57 [Suresh]
'status'
14:55:09 [alissa]
RESOLUTION: Messages have a single interface irrespective of their type. Need a better name for type (status?).
14:55:14 [maxf]
q+
14:55:26 [darobin]
q+ to bring up numerical constants
14:55:45 [darobin]
close ACTION-142
14:55:46 [trackbot]
ACTION-142 Propose two interfaces Outgoing and Incoming messages for messaging API closed
14:55:48 [alissa]
maxf: so we're not keeping a per-type (MMS, SMS) interface then?
14:56:05 [darobin]
ack maxf
14:56:39 [dom]
zakim, mute me
14:56:39 [Zakim]
Dom should now be muted
14:56:46 [alissa]
Suresh: should separate interfaces based on messaging type
14:57:03 [alissa]
... BONDI separates the interfaces
14:57:33 [darobin]
[actually these two are half-orthogonal — if we have separate for incoming/ougoing *and* for types we get IncomingSMS, OutgoingSMS, IncomingEmail, ...]
14:57:51 [alissa]
... right now we create a superset interface and we're silent for what doesn't apply
14:58:00 [darobin]
[given a unified in/out interface, if we split we just get Email, SMS, MMS]
14:58:16 [alissa]
... implementations might have separate modules for different messaging technologies
14:58:33 [alissa]
darobin: some implementations might only support email
14:58:47 [alissa]
Suresh: separation lets implementations pick
14:59:19 [alissa]
bryan: extension to specific message types is a useful approach (attachments aren't relevant for SMS, e.g.)
14:59:45 [alissa]
... defining message types is a better approach
14:59:49 [maxf]
+1 with Bryan: different interfaces handles the attribute errors automatically
15:00:50 [alissa]
Suresh: makes spec longer
15:01:03 [dom]
(which we'll have to do for incoming/outgoing :) )
15:01:16 [alissa]
... will miss exception cases
15:01:32 [alissa]
RESOLUTION: Have multiple interfaces for different messaging technologies (i.e., message types).
15:01:36 [darobin]
ack me
15:01:36 [Zakim]
darobin, you wanted to bring up numerical constants
15:01:48 [maxf]
q+
15:02:08 [dom]
(this relations to ACTION-139)
15:02:11 [dom]
ACTION-139?
15:02:11 [trackbot]
ACTION-139 -- Max Froumentin to fix section 5 "supported messaging types" in Messaging API to clarify handling of non-supported attributes -- due 2010-03-25 -- OPEN
15:02:11 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/139
15:02:24 [nwidell]
q+
15:02:59 [alissa]
maxf: will wait to update until receiving something from Suresh
15:03:22 [dom]
Zakim, mute anssik
15:03:22 [Zakim]
AnssiK should now be muted
15:03:25 [dom]
zakim, mute drogers
15:03:25 [Zakim]
drogers should now be muted
15:03:30 [fjh]
zakim, mute me
15:03:30 [Zakim]
fjh should now be muted
15:03:57 [maxf]
I was asking about a resolution on the priority attribute
15:04:02 [maxf]
zakim, drop me
15:04:02 [Zakim]
maxf is being disconnected
15:04:03 [Zakim]
-maxf
15:04:35 [Zakim]
+maxf
15:04:38 [alissa]
Suresh: priority attribute is not applicable for SMS and MMS, but it is for email
15:04:49 [alissa]
... since we're separating, we should add it to email
15:05:10 [alissa]
bryan: why isn't priority applicable to MMS?
15:05:21 [alissa]
Suresh: it's not defined in the MMS spec
15:05:32 [alissa]
... user-defined priority
15:05:52 [dom]
(another item that my MUA lets me set at writing time: reply-to)
15:06:17 [dom]
q+
15:06:23 [maxf]
q-
15:06:24 [dom]
ack me
15:06:40 [alissa]
dom: could have generic getheader and setheader?
15:06:58 [alissa]
darobin: concerned about security issues (in XHR had to jump hoops re headers)
15:07:05 [dom]
(at least getHeader() should exist?)
15:07:23 [darobin]
[yeah, getHeader() makes sense — note that it can return an array]
15:07:35 [alissa]
Suresh: list of headers is not long right now
15:07:44 [alissa]
darobin: there are many email headers
15:08:12 [alissa]
dom: PHP lets you write any header
15:08:39 [alissa]
bryan: could deal with security issues separately from API functionality
15:08:48 [nwidell]
(maybe we should decide on abstraction level of Messaging API)
15:09:02 [alissa]
... could define specific attributes for most common message fields, but use others by name through generic mechanism
15:09:10 [dom]
[we could WebIDL setter/getter? not sure if it's worth it, though]
15:09:20 [darobin]
[email from Suresh: X-Original-To, Delivered-To, Received, X-AuditID, X-MimeOLE, Content-class, MIME-Version....]
15:09:39 [dom]
q?
15:10:07 [darobin]
ACTION: Robin to review the options for headers on emails
15:10:07 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-170 - Review the options for headers on emails [on Robin Berjon - due 2010-05-05].
15:11:06 [dom]
ISSUE: which headers to support setting/getting in Messaging API?
15:11:06 [trackbot]
Created ISSUE-84 - Which headers to support setting/getting in Messaging API? ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/84/edit .
15:11:10 [alissa]
darobin: lots of different headers that might need support
15:11:58 [alissa]
... will draft an email with use cases, review XHR
15:11:58 [darobin]
ack nwidell
15:12:42 [alissa]
nwidell: question of size and scope of API
15:12:53 [alissa]
... do we really have a use case for replacing outlook?
15:13:03 [darobin]
q?
15:13:22 [AnssiK]
go for 80/20
15:13:25 [alissa]
bryan: providing a message where you can get/set fields by name, keeps API small
15:14:03 [alissa]
... if we have something generic, market will find useful ways to leverage it
15:15:12 [maxf]
ScribeNick: maxf
15:15:53 [maxf]
Suresh: we didn't talk about ability to identify messages by Service, like in Contacts
15:16:06 [maxf]
… people have different email accounts.
15:16:07 [darobin]
+1
15:16:16 [maxf]
… retrieving by service is useful.
15:16:46 [maxf]
… e.g. different mailboxes
15:16:59 [darobin]
[you get some emails from Opera, others from GMail, etc. different accounts]
15:17:02 [maxf]
… different accounts
15:17:30 [nwidell]
+1 (was thinking about same thing before going AWOL ;-)
15:17:41 [maxf]
darobin: account-ID sounds better than service-ID
15:17:54 [darobin]
-> http://www.w3.org/mid/n2n708552fb1004071110x6d98c6e6t85e83eef0eef52de@mail.gmail.com
15:17:57 [maxf]
Topic: parameter style
15:18:08 [dom]
ack me
15:18:10 [maxf]
darobin: seems to be heading towards using object literals
15:18:13 [maxf]
… objections?
15:18:24 [maxf]
dom: I'm not sure I would call it a consensus
15:18:34 [Zakim]
-alissa
15:18:34 [maxf]
… about half and half
15:19:03 [maxf]
darobin: happy to keep discussion alive
15:19:18 [maxf]
dom: perhaps we need to wait a bit, see if anybody reacts further
15:19:24 [maxf]
darobin: ok
15:19:43 [maxf]
Topic: editor for tasks
15:19:48 [dom]
(this was about ISSUE-55)
15:19:57 [maxf]
darobin: david suggested he might be able to find someone
15:19:58 [dom]
ACTION-147?
15:19:58 [trackbot]
ACTION-147 -- David Rogers to look for an editor for the Tasks API -- due 2010-03-25 -- OPEN
15:19:58 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/147
15:20:09 [dom]
Zakim, seen drogersuk?
15:20:09 [Zakim]
dom, I do not see Drogersuk anywhere
15:20:13 [dom]
Zakim, seen david?
15:20:13 [Zakim]
dom, I do not see David anywhere
15:20:31 [drogersuk]
Hello?
15:20:32 [maxf]
Suresh: is Tasks among the priority APIs?
15:20:38 [dom]
zakim, seen ??P1?
15:20:38 [Zakim]
dom, I do not see ??P1 anywhere
15:20:38 [drogersuk]
Can you hear me?
15:20:46 [dom]
Zakim, unmute drogersuk
15:20:46 [Zakim]
sorry, dom, I do not know which phone connection belongs to drogersuk
15:20:47 [maxf]
darobin: not necessarily, but editors would be welcome
15:20:52 [dom]
Zakim, unmute drogers
15:20:52 [Zakim]
drogers should no longer be muted
15:21:03 [dom]
zakim, mute me
15:21:03 [Zakim]
Dom should now be muted
15:21:16 [fjh]
zakim, unmute me
15:21:16 [Zakim]
fjh should no longer be muted
15:21:20 [maxf]
drogersuk: didn't see any responses when I asked
15:21:34 [dom]
close ACTION-147
15:21:34 [trackbot]
ACTION-147 Look for an editor for the Tasks API closed
15:21:46 [dom]
ACTION-147: no one took up the offer
15:21:46 [trackbot]
ACTION-147 Look for an editor for the Tasks API notes added
15:21:57 [maxf]
darobin: then we might just have to wait
15:22:14 [maxf]
Topic: misc APIs
15:22:26 [maxf]
darobin: we're going to need a test framework soon
15:22:44 [dom]
-> http://www.w3.org/mid/490BF875279F7549BEBA47ADC8F369DB6C92435F8D@SKT-MBXA.SKT.AD A Proposal for the Testing Framework, Soonho Lee
15:22:54 [dom]
ack me
15:22:56 [drogersuk]
+1
15:23:03 [maxf]
… dom also looked at it
15:23:04 [dom]
wttjs
15:23:18 [maxf]
dom: I found WTTGS recently which generates test cases based on webidl
15:23:33 [maxf]
… it's not as good as it could be, not too good for async interfaces
15:23:36 [darobin]
-> http://www.w3.org/mid/n2n708552fb1004071110x6d98c6e6t85e83eef0eef52de@mail.gmail.com
15:23:38 [darobin]
bah
15:23:44 [darobin]
-> http://suika.fam.cx/www/webidl2tests/readme.en.html
15:23:53 [maxf]
… widlproctools might be a better start. Hoping I'll be able to work on it soon.
15:23:57 [darobin]
s/-> http://www.w3.org/mid/n2n708552fb1004071110x6d98c6e6t85e83eef0eef52de@mail.gmail.com//
15:23:59 [dom]
ACTION-150?
15:23:59 [trackbot]
ACTION-150 -- David Rogers to send BONDI experience with testing for device APIs -- due 2010-03-25 -- OPEN
15:23:59 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/150
15:24:10 [maxf]
drogersuk: trying to lobby for your case with new Bondi CEO (Geoff Jackson?)
15:24:28 [maxf]
s/drogersuk: trying to lobby for your case with new Bondi CEO (Geoff Jackson?)//
15:24:30 [darobin]
s/drogersuk: trying to lobby for your case with new Bondi CEO (Geoff Jackson?)//
15:24:30 [maxf]
sorry
15:24:35 [drogersuk]
lol
15:24:39 [drogersuk]
delete that
15:24:44 [drogersuk]
example of W3C minuting!
15:24:44 [darobin]
s/lol//
15:24:50 [darobin]
s/delete that//
15:25:37 [maxf]
drogersuk: dom, let's speak offline about it, cause I think we have a plan.
15:25:53 [maxf]
ACTION: drogersuk and Dom to speak offline on testing framework
15:25:53 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-171 - And Dom to speak offline on testing framework [on David Rogers - due 2010-05-05].
15:26:32 [maxf]
drogersuk: there's a large amount of interest, since manufacturers need to be able to claim compliance
15:26:55 [maxf]
… we'd like to endorse Marcos' job with widgets specs
15:27:22 [Zakim]
-nwidell
15:27:30 [maxf]
darobin: we should try and get him on this group to help. And we should try and gather as much manufacturer power as possible
15:27:31 [maxf]
q+!
15:27:38 [darobin]
ack !
15:27:58 [drogersuk]
I need to jump onto another conference call, see you guys later
15:28:03 [Zakim]
-drogers
15:28:24 [dom]
(regrets for next two weeks from me)
15:28:26 [Zakim]
-darobin
15:28:27 [Zakim]
-suresh
15:28:28 [Zakim]
-Dom
15:28:29 [Zakim]
-Bryan
15:28:29 [Zakim]
-LauraA
15:28:30 [Zakim]
-enewland
15:28:30 [Zakim]
-fjh
15:28:31 [enewland]
enewland has left #dap
15:28:31 [Zakim]
-marengo
15:28:33 [Zakim]
-[T-Systems]
15:28:35 [Zakim]
- +34.68.697.aaee
15:28:35 [fjh]
rrsagent, generate minutes
15:28:35 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/04/28-dap-minutes.html fjh
15:28:35 [AnssiK]
AnssiK has left #dap
15:28:37 [Zakim]
-ilkka
15:28:42 [Zakim]
-maxf
15:28:52 [Zakim]
-Claes
15:28:59 [Zakim]
-AnssiK
15:29:00 [Zakim]
UW_DAP()10:00AM has ended
15:29:02 [Zakim]
Attendees were enewland, fjh, AnssiK, Dom, ilkka, suresh, darobin, alissa, +1.425.214.aacc, Bryan, LauraA, drogers, Claes, [T-Systems], +39.011.228.aadd, marengo, +34.68.697.aaee,
15:29:05 [Zakim]
... maxf, +04610715aaff, nwidell
15:29:52 [fjh]
s/sorry my Internet crapped out//
15:30:26 [fjh]
s/XACML could be its own doc/XACML profile could be its own doc/
15:30:42 [dom]
s/wttgs/wttjs/
15:30:51 [dom]
s/recently which/which/
15:30:59 [fjh]
s/do you hear a strange sound?//
15:32:09 [fjh]
rrsagent, generate minutes
15:32:09 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/04/28-dap-minutes.html fjh
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