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12:46:49 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7769
12:46:49 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see INC_SSN()9:00AM scheduled to start in 14 minutes
12:46:50 <trackbot> Meeting: Semantic Sensor Network Incubator Group Teleconference
12:46:50 <trackbot> Date: 27 April 2010
12:47:08 <Holger> Regrets: Luis
12:47:15 <Holger> agenda+ Roll call
12:47:24 <Holger> agenda+ Actions from last meeting
12:47:57 <Holger> agenda+ Discussion + Vote: modelling of accuracy of measurement etc.
12:48:09 <Holger> agenda+ Where are we now and what do we have to do next
12:48:17 <Holger> agenda+ AOB
12:48:27 <Holger> Chair: Holger
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12:54:27 <Holger> zakim, +61.3.622.3.aaaa is me
12:54:27 <Zakim> +Holger; got it
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12:56:49 <Payam> zakim, ??p12 is me
12:56:49 <Zakim> +Payam; got it
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13:00:51 <laurent_lefort_cs> -----------------
13:01:03 <Holger> zakim, who's on the phone?
13:01:03 <Zakim> On the phone I see Holger (muted), +1.518.281.aabb, Payam, [MIT528] (muted), michael_, ??P16, +1.716.688.aacc, [IPcaller], [IPcaller.a]
13:01:18 <laurent_lefort_cs> zakim, [IPCaller] is me
13:01:18 <Zakim> +laurent_lefort_cs; got it
13:01:42 <Arthur> zakim, [IPcaller.a] is me
13:01:42 <Zakim> +Arthur; got it
13:02:41 <vhuang> Good afternoon, I am on the phone as well, but I don't know which one is me.
13:02:59 <Holger> that's ok ;-)
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13:05:10 <Holger> zakim, unmute me
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13:05:40 <Holger> agenda?
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13:07:00 <krzysztof_j> zakim, ??P21 is me
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13:09:58 <Holger> ScribeNick: laurent_lefort_cs
13:10:21 <laurent_lefort_cs> Topic: Actions from last meeting
13:10:59 <laurent_lefort_cs> Holger recaps what happened on the mailing list: message from Luis
13:12:09 <laurent_lefort_cs> Pending actions: communications to W3C about status of Member submission
13:13:00 <laurent_lefort_cs> Michael to describe the EGU presentation
13:13:43 <laurent_lefort_cs> +q
13:14:16 <laurent_lefort_cs> Status of semantic markup deliverables? We drop the submission: what are we doing for the report?
13:14:50 <Holger> ack laurent_lefort_cs
13:15:30 <laurent_lefort_cs> Amit: We will focus on the report on the part which has not been done elsewhere
13:15:38 <AmitSheth> We will make annotation as part of the main report -- as best practices that will describe how the ontology can be used for semantic annotation of sensor data
13:15:50 <AmitSheth> but generally we are not offering new language/syntax
13:16:06 <Holger> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/ssn/wiki/Modelling_of_Accuracy%2C_etc
13:16:47 <laurent_lefort_cs> Discussion on status of Modelling of Accuracy
13:17:08 <cory> ?q
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13:18:17 <laurent_lefort_cs> Michael: working on the basis of two proposals, Michael's and the MMI one (Luis with help from other MMI OntDev participants). 
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13:18:55 <laurent_lefort_cs> ... No major differences except in Luis's proposal the link is done thru capability constraint (linked one by one)
13:19:14 <laurent_lefort_cs> ... Michael has grouped all the parameters in a "tuple".
13:19:58 <laurent_lefort_cs> http://marinemetadata.org/community/teams/ontdevices/devontacc
13:20:11 <michael_> http://marinemetadata.org/community/teams/ontdevices/devontacc
13:20:23 <laurent_lefort_cs> http://code.google.com/p/devont/source/browse/trunk/devont/ssn/devontacc-example.owl
13:20:45 <laurent_lefort_cs> Cory: are the capabilities organised in hierarchies?
13:20:59 <laurent_lefort_cs> Michael: no
13:22:22 <laurent_lefort_cs> Discussion on whether we need to add a property for each type of capabilities
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13:24:14 <michael_> +q
13:24:32 <laurent_lefort_cs> Amit: can I model for a cases where two capabilities are related, e.g. if I use more energy I got more accuracy
13:24:55 <Holger_Oz> ack michael_
13:26:02 <AmitSheth> Google: EXPLORING TRADEOFFS IN ACCURACY, ENERGY AND LATENCY OF SCALE 
13:26:12 <laurent_lefort_cs> Michael: our proposals are more expressive - they can handle expressions of trade offs between two criterias
13:27:11 <laurent_lefort_cs> ... The model does not cover all the possible terms/concepts you may want to model but show how this can be done
13:27:36 <michael_> Exploring Tradeoffs in Accuracy, Energy and Latency of Scale Invariant Feature Transform in Wireless Camera Networks - right one ??
13:28:18 <laurent_lefort_cs> Amit: I'm interested by energy-related issues. Can the model cover temporal aspects
13:28:34 <laurent_lefort_cs> ... e.g. the battery may last 10 hours
13:29:20 <laurent_lefort_cs> ... Can the model describe the conditions in which the sensor can operate e.g. the temperature range
13:30:46 <laurent_lefort_cs> Michael: we can cover temperature range as part of a condition for a capability e.g. accuracy, not temperature range as a survival range.
13:31:46 <laurent_lefort_cs> ... For time e.g. the latency between measurements maybe not all the requests linked to other entities e.g. the time at which a user want to use a sensor
13:32:55 <laurent_lefort_cs> Amit: what about the geospatial aspects: coordinate systems with multiple axis
13:33:36 <laurent_lefort_cs> Michael: we have not captured yet things like field of view ...
13:35:14 <laurent_lefort_cs> Amit: Energy and geospatial movement/coverage are important.  
13:35:35 <laurent_lefort_cs> ... We need examples to explain how the modelling language we chose and also on how this can be extended.
13:35:38 <laurent_lefort_cs> Michael: agreed
13:36:49 <cory> ?q
13:37:16 <laurent_lefort_cs> Cory: do we have a pros and cons list of the two approaches?
13:37:18 <michael_> +q
13:38:22 <laurent_lefort_cs> Michael: there is an email posted last week where we discussed some of the differences
13:39:14 <laurent_lefort_cs> ... The main difference is the decision to group or to separate the capabilities parameters
13:39:33 <scox> Think about scalability
13:39:55 <scox> RDF allows 'any order you like'
13:40:02 <laurent_lefort_cs> Laurent: tuple may be better for automated processing and separated ones maybe be better for discovery
13:40:39 <laurent_lefort_cs> Cory: the next criteria if they express the same thing is simplicity
13:41:29 <laurent_lefort_cs> +q
13:41:46 <Holger_Oz> ack michael_
13:41:52 <Holger_Oz> ack laurent_lefort_cs
13:42:11 <vhuang> +q
13:42:29 <michael_> +q
13:42:50 <Holger_Oz> ack vhuang
13:43:25 <laurent_lefort_cs> Laurent: Simplicity depends on wether you use the ontology in a RDF or in an annotated XML file
13:45:35 <Holger_Oz> http://marinemetadata.org/community/teams/ontdevices/devontacc
13:46:58 <laurent_lefort_cs> Vincent: remark on the example supplied by Luis/Carlos line 78 why intersection and not union? 
13:47:20 <Holger_Oz> ack michael_
13:47:47 <vhuang> line 178
13:48:11 <laurent_lefort_cs> Michael: answering to Laurent's comment on simplicity, I don't see there is a trade off, difference between the two contexts of use. 
13:48:36 <Payam> +q
13:48:42 <Arthur> I think the model proposed by Michael would be better structured with specific measurement capabilities (latency, FoV, Frequency,...) being sub-concepts of MeasurementCapability; and the MeasurementCapability can be ralated to Accuracy then.
13:48:53 <Holger_Oz> ack Payam
13:49:09 <krzysztof_j> ack
13:49:26 <laurent_lefort_cs> Payam: the priority should be the description logic model, not the verbosity of the examples
13:49:46 <michael_> +q
13:50:45 <Holger_Oz> ack michael_
13:50:56 <laurent_lefort_cs> Michael: we should add a sub-class relation between Capability and a more generic concept to my model
13:51:19 <Arthur> ... and the MeasurementCapability can be ralated to Condition then.
13:51:55 <laurent_lefort_cs> ... It would be good to treat them equally in the constraint expression and differently where they are use as a charcteristic of the device
13:51:58 <michael_> no just giving an option
13:52:05 <cory> I agree, this would simplify the model
13:52:16 <laurent_lefort_cs> +1
13:52:25 <scox> +1
13:52:31 <cory> +1
13:52:33 <krp> +1
13:52:41 <krzysztof_j> +1
13:53:23 <Payam> -1
13:53:26 <michael_> +1
13:53:27 <AmitSheth> -1
13:53:31 <Arthur> -1
13:53:31 <krzysztof_j> 0
13:53:34 <scox> +1
13:53:35 <krp> -1
13:53:37 <vhuang> 0
13:53:38 <cory> -1, would like to hear luis argument
13:53:41 <dongmei> +1
13:53:44 <laurent_lefort_cs> Holger: vote one whether we vote today or note starting above from Payam 
13:53:48 <vhuang> +1
13:53:56 <laurent_lefort_cs> -1
13:54:10 <Payam> I agree with Cory- hearning Luis's argument
13:54:31 <sumita> -1
13:54:55 <michael_> ...you just gave yourself work too Laurent :-)
13:55:28 <scox> +q
13:56:21 <krzysztof_j> the wiki has a upload form in the left menu
13:56:35 <laurent_lefort_cs> Simon: what is the process to upload documents?
13:57:15 <krzysztof_j> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/ssn/wiki/Special:Upload
14:00:06 <Holger_Oz> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/ssn/wiki/images/4/41/EGU2010v1_3.pdf
14:00:35 <michael_> ...for my part, I'm happy to hear suggestions for more pictures
14:00:49 <laurent_lefort_cs> Laurent: (other business) I'm going to do a talk on "Semantically-Enabled Standard development" about what we do in the XG at Metadata Australia 2010 (May 27 in Canberra) http://www.metadataaustralia2010.com/ (a bit more general than what we've done in the Semantic Markup activity)
14:02:52 <Zakim> - +1.937.775.aaff
14:02:59 <Payam> +q
14:03:14 <laurent_lefort_cs> Two sessions have been merged: http://meetingorganizer.copernicus.org/EGU2010/oral_programme/1923
14:03:26 <vhuang> I have been disconnected.
14:04:06 <Zakim> -??P16
14:04:46 <laurent_lefort_cs> Laurent: The EGU talk is just after a talk by Oscar Corcho on Semantic Sensors for Rapid Application Development for Environmental Management
14:05:17 <laurent_lefort_cs> Simon recommends that we have more images and more examples
14:07:01 <cory> sure, we have a few slides
14:07:35 <Zakim> -[MIT528]
14:07:40 <scox> I have to go to another telecon now!
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14:09:59 <Arthur> I didn't say anything now
14:10:37 <krzysztof_j> bye
14:10:40 <krp> bye
14:10:40 <Zakim> -Payam
14:10:42 <Arthur> bye
14:10:43 <Zakim> -michael_
14:10:44 <Zakim> -krzysztof_j
14:10:44 <Zakim> -krp
14:10:45 <laurent_lefort_cs> Payam suggest that we use the EGU talk as the opportinuty to engage with other groups working on related projects. Need to add a slide calling for collaboration.
14:10:45 <Zakim> - +1.937.775.aadd
14:10:55 <scox> +1
14:11:23 <scox> q
14:11:29 <scox> +q
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14:11:31 <Zakim> -Arthur
14:11:33 <scox> -q
14:11:35 <Holger_Oz> zakim, bye 
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14:11:35 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were Holger, +1.518.281.aabb, Payam, [MIT528], michael_, +1.716.688.aacc, laurent_lefort_cs, Arthur, +1.937.775.aadd, +39.033.278.aaee,
14:11:38 <Zakim> ... +1.937.775.aaff, krzysztof_j, krp
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14:11:47 <scox> quit
14:11:54 <scox> bye
14:11:54 <Holger_Oz> rrsagent, make log public
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14:12:08 <Holger_Oz> rrsagent, draft minutes 
14:12:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/04/27-ssn-minutes.html Holger_Oz
14:12:17 <Holger_Oz> rrsagent, bye 
14:12:17 <RRSAgent> I see no action items