14:20:52 RRSAgent has joined #prov-xg 14:20:52 logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/04/26-prov-xg-irc 14:21:24 Zakim has joined #prov-xg 14:21:40 ScribeNick: Yogesh 14:22:41 Meeting: Prov XG Live Day 2 14:23:18 - Architecture diagram for use cases 14:23:21 - Slides contain: 14:23:25 -- Block diagram, process of figuring out provenance, information flow, screen shot of the blog site with arts of the aggregation. 14:23:28 -- Content, management, and use 14:23:31 - Sources/Entities 14:23:34 -- people: blog creator, news paper organization, 14:23:37 -- Process: aggregator, people:(quality checker, license checker, legal checker (e.g. children)), image reformat, twitter, retweeting, edit tweet, TinyURL, Image edit: crop, copy+paste, commentary, adding content, add seal, flagg content, inability to check content. 14:24:02 -- blogs, microblogs, tweet, retweet, web site, images, video, news aggregate 14:24:04 - Content 14:24:07 -- Temporal aspect, ephemeral? Do in second scenario. 14:24:15 -- No entailment -- Attributeion -- Process -- Evol -- Recorded vs. reconstructed provenance, 14:24:18 -- E.g. "according to #johnmarkov, blah blah" -> causes NY Times, which #johnmarkov writes for, to be verified and the quote checked. Assertion and validation of assertion. 14:24:53 - Management 14:24:56 -- Authenticate entity, Check certificate, identification of user (e.g. thru handles, #tags), check website, 14:24:59 -- Can websites expose provenance? E.g. John markvo's article can have provenance. NY Times runs its own provenance service. How do we acceess and query it? 14:25:05 -- Infrered vs. asserted provenance. -- Inferer by following retweets 14:25:09 -- Access control: -- NY times requires you to have an account with them to access provenance. 14:25:19 -- License: blog may not have copyright metadata listed...has to be infered, image metadata may have copyright encoded, tweets may not have copyright. 14:25:23 -- Scale: Scalable query store for provenance. Global, multi-lingual. 14:25:48 Topic: Harry from Edinburg 14:25:52 -- Report due in September, draft is online, incomplete provenance requirements, 14:25:56 -- General case and particular case 14:25:59 -- General case: distributed social network, who posted, when, why and how through various systems. 14:26:02 -- e.g. Go between social netwrok sites that are usually silos. Number of software to deal with this. Problem is that they loose provenance. Most use atom feeds. 14:26:05 -- Activity atom stream used by FaceBook, Microsoft. 14:26:08 -- Take your activity stream, photos, etc. to a different network. How do you track that you moved data. Digital death: how do you track provenance of data removal. 14:26:11 -- Due to provacy, it is good to have data diasappear, unlike in eScience 14:26:15 -- Removing data impacts provenance of e.g. comments 14:27:14 Keep track capabilities in a site used to create a data...e.g. tagging photos, parts of photos, .. granularity of provenance may differ 14:27:48 Deletion of data is important! 14:28:25 facebook freezes your data when you delete your account. people may want to *delete* their data. 14:29:20 Present: Yolanda, Christine, Sam, Satya, Paul, Yogesh 14:29:52 If you dont have a tackback mechanism, then it is a problem...dependency chain 14:31:39 Identity axis: retracting data, messages, and deleting profiles. E.g. retracting retweet that was found to be inaccurate. 14:33:10 highlighting differences from database and escience provenance 14:33:33 String desire for anonymous identity 14:34:29 users may have different anon identities that have different levels of trust. E.g. not give away name or geolocation 14:35:14 Users may want to post verified information but keep their identity anon 14:35:52 e.g. like voting online. you want to be authentication, but not identified 14:36:44 inverse of this is shills...people paid to send false information 14:38:00 provenance around identity 14:38:39 identity may be separable from provenance 14:40:32 similar to anon f medical records 14:42:03 provenance and policy usecase. social networks that has legal implications. 14:43:31 e.g. embarassing photo posted online with free license picked up for advertisment 14:44:13 can provenance framework track upload, download, and reuse 14:44:26 can a policy framework enforce this? 14:45:24 hooks in provenance framework to enforce policy 14:46:04 social netwoks use xmpp, pubsubhub...no fine grained level of provenance 14:46:29 track change of state and distribute them 14:48:58 standing query on provenance. accountabilty to check status of provenance 14:50:01 part of our charter is to see how provenance fits in web architecture 14:51:44 atom feeds for microbloggin may be sufficient granularity, but an atom feed for a blog post is too coarse a granularity for identifying provenance 14:53:16 granularity...can we give all resources in blog post: images, video, hashtag, text their own ID in RDF 14:53:59 add vocab to atom to add arbitrary payloads 14:54:05 so provenance goes with atom feed 14:54:37 Harry happy to exchange telecons 14:57:46 An ideal provenance framework is two things: (1) some vocab like OPM that is extensible, in semantic web language, annotations, authors, etc. (2) Versioning framework: deletions, edits, change, baseline operations tracked over time 14:58:04 propagation techniques for changes 15:00:30 Yolanda: 3 different provenance concepts: Content, Management and Use 15:00:59 management: named graph, sparql, .. 15:04:27 META and link headers in profile pages as part of HTML...special RDF staements in Link headers that point to provenance 15:05:04 add /META to web URL where you can find the metadata for the page at 15:07:33 Erin Hammer, Yahoo; Jonathan Reese, Science commons 15:07:41 good people to talk to about technology 15:07:58 Dan Connoley, W3C 15:11:11 Net steps: coordinated calls. Invitation to send someone from xprov to social web telecon to highlight provenance. 15:11:59 About 12 use cases available in the social web group. 15:15:46 If both XG's have a consistent voice in their report, it may be a strategic win with W3C 15:16:14 if xprov's use case 1 correctly captures social web usecase, that would be useful 15:17:04 Wednesday 11AM ET calls 15:20:23 Tentetively May 12, 11AM ET for telecon interaction. 1hr calls. 15:23:13 rrsagent, make log public 15:23:20 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:23:20 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/04/26-prov-xg-minutes.html Yogesh 15:28:11 jun has joined #prov-xg 15:50:23 Yogesh has joined #prov-xg 15:50:30 ScribeNick: Yogesh 15:50:44 Topic: Architecture Diagram for Usecase 1/Provenance Use 16:13:43 - Use 16:13:47 -- Understanding: Seal picture is derived from the provenace. 16:13:59 -- Use some rating system to create the seal from provenance 16:14:12 -- Diagram showing reason for rating with ability to navigate to more detail 16:14:15 -- collapsing granularity of user operatrions into single process 16:14:19 -- Interop: navigating provenance graph; possbily on on different website. 16:14:23 -- "w3c" icons to descreibe provenance. vocabulary can drive icons. 16:14:27 -- Accountabilty: 16:14:30 -- verification integrated with trust model of blog agg. Check ability to check 16:14:35 license copyright. check if edits were made to the picture, and if so, legally. e.g. getty images, dowload, modify, upload with creative commons license, xmpp embedded in images, verify cahin to see confidence on image copyright. 16:19:14 -- recording and showing decision making process, aggregation 16:23:42 Satya and Olaf working on vocabulary 16:23:45 mapping 16:25:57 Ask for vocabulary mapping volunteers on Friday call 16:27:16 Zakim has left #prov-xg 16:27:40 Yogesh to summarize BlogAgg use case and technical requirement on Friday 16:29:11 Paul excused from call 16:32:17 rrsagent, make log public 16:34:58 rrsagent, draft minutes 16:34:58 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/04/26-prov-xg-minutes.html Yogesh 16:35:04 rrsagent, bye 16:35:04 I see no action items