16:53:37 RRSAgent has joined #tagmem 16:53:37 logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/04/22-tagmem-irc 16:53:41 scribenick: ht 16:53:47 scribe: Henry S. Thompson 16:53:55 meeting: TAG telcon 16:56:56 chair: Noah Mendelsohn 16:57:13 agenda: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2010/04/22-agenda.html 16:58:33 noah has joined #tagmem 16:58:42 zakim, who is here? 16:58:42 TAG_Weekly()1:00PM has not yet started, noah 16:58:43 On IRC I see noah, RRSAgent, ht, Zakim, timbl_, DanC, trackbot 16:58:49 johnk__ has joined #tagmem 16:59:11 TAG_Weekly()1:00PM has now started 16:59:18 +Noah_Mendelsohn 17:00:22 zakim, who is here? 17:00:22 On the phone I see Noah_Mendelsohn 17:00:23 On IRC I see johnk__, noah, RRSAgent, ht, Zakim, timbl_, DanC, trackbot 17:00:24 Ashok has joined #tagmem 17:00:31 DKA has joined #tagmem 17:01:07 +DKA 17:01:27 +Ashok_Malhotra 17:01:34 +DanC 17:02:03 zakim, who is here? 17:02:03 On the phone I see Noah_Mendelsohn, DKA, Ashok_Malhotra, DanC 17:02:05 On IRC I see DKA, Ashok, johnk__, noah, RRSAgent, ht, Zakim, timbl_, DanC, trackbot 17:02:22 trackbot, start meeting 17:02:24 RRSAgent, make logs public 17:02:26 Zakim, this will be TAG 17:02:27 Meeting: Technical Architecture Group Teleconference 17:02:27 Date: 22 April 2010 17:02:28 ok, trackbot, I see TAG_Weekly()1:00PM already started 17:02:38 Henry, you dialing soon? 17:02:40 Topic: Convene 17:02:52 scribenick: DanC 17:02:53 +Ht 17:03:05 Regrets: Tim Berners-Lee, Larry Masinter, Jonathan Rees, T.V. Raman 17:03:29 NM: reminder next week is cancelled; next telcon is 6 May 17:03:36 HST: Regrets for 6 May 17:03:47 NM: DanC, can you scribe 6 May? 17:03:55 DanC: I think so... will check in detail 17:04:10 NM: Minutes from 15 April. . . 17:04:11 My belated regrets for last week. 17:04:17 I am playing the volcano card. 17:04:17 +1 approve http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2010/04/15-minutes.html 17:04:20 scribenick: ht 17:04:25 +John_Kemp 17:04:25 NM: Minutes for 15 April approved 17:04:52 Topic: London local arrangements 17:05:39 DKA: Barbecue Sunday evening 6 june? 17:05:46 Sorry, can't make it. 17:05:57 HST: Yes, I'll be there 17:06:00 AM: I'll be there 17:06:06 not sure I can attend even the meeting yet 17:06:39 DKA: I sent email to tag mailing list with local arrangements details 17:06:55 ... will email likewise about the barbecue 17:08:55 Topic: Overdue action items 17:09:05 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/overdue 17:09:14 NM: This makes life hard for the chair in planning, please fix this 17:09:18 johnk_ has joined #tagmem 17:09:19 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/overdue?sort=owner 17:09:31 -John_Kemp 17:09:41 action-390? 17:09:41 ACTION-390 -- Daniel Appelquist to review ISSUE-58 and suggest next steps, due 2010-03-03 -- due 2010-03-17 -- OPEN 17:09:41 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/390 17:10:17 DKA: I need to review this, keep it open 17:10:30 ... likewise for my others 17:10:49 action-390 due next week 17:10:49 ACTION-390 Review ISSUE-58 and suggest next steps, due 2010-03-03 due date now next week 17:10:51 johnk has joined #tagmem 17:11:05 action-408? 17:11:05 ACTION-408 -- Daniel Appelquist to look into next steps on a workshop around device APIs, privacy etc. with tlr -- due 2010-03-31 -- OPEN 17:11:05 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/408 17:11:29 +John_Kemp 17:11:42 DKA: This is done, I've been working on a workshop, draft call for participation 17:11:59 q+ to ask done like no more TAG attention needed? or done like your part is done and the TAG should hear from you about the results and consider next steps? 17:12:10 ... link coming 17:12:19 sounds done-done to me. 17:12:28 ... vodafone will host in same week as DAP f2f -- 12/13 July 17:13:47 q- 17:13:48 NM: Any other TAG members to attend? 17:13:54 . . . [none] 17:14:02 NM: Thanks DKA, that's done 17:14:07 close action-408 17:14:07 ACTION-408 Look into next steps on a workshop around device APIs, privacy etc. with tlr closed 17:14:13 ACTION-420 due next week 17:14:13 ACTION-420 What is different about xhtml basic 1.1 (in particular re: namespaces) due date now next week 17:14:27 (I interpret "keep this open" as "due next week" by default) 17:14:40 ACTION-116 due + 8 weeks 17:14:40 ACTION-116 Align the tabulator internal vocabulary with the vocabulary in the rules http://esw.w3.org/topic/AwwswDboothsRules, getting changes to either as needed. due date now + 8 weeks 17:15:00 ACTION-399? 17:15:00 ACTION-399 -- John Kemp to prepare F2F discussion of sniffing, being sure to check status of other pertinent actions -- due 2010-03-18 -- PENDINGREVIEW 17:15:00 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/399 17:15:14 close action-399 17:15:14 ACTION-399 Prepare F2F discussion of sniffing, being sure to check status of other pertinent actions closed 17:15:23 action-340? 17:15:23 ACTION-340 -- John Kemp to review XHR and UMP together and provide comments to TAG as relevant -- due 2010-03-10 -- OPEN 17:15:23 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/340 17:15:23 -DKA 17:15:45 +DKA 17:15:52 (going on on which list?) 17:16:40 NM: JK to prepare a discussion for the May 6 call 17:16:48 action-340? 17:16:48 ACTION-340 -- John Kemp to summarize recent discussion around XHR and UMP -- due 2010-05-04 -- OPEN 17:16:48 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/340 17:17:01 close action-215 17:17:01 ACTION-215 Send minutes of 15 Apr TAG teleconference to www-tag for review closed 17:18:20 action-384: most recent msg seems to be http://www.w3.org/mid/E345E885-AC39-4E16-B8B3-982513A303A2@jkemp.net 22 Mar 17:18:20 ACTION-384 CVS usage edits notes added 17:19:05 FYI this is the CfP for the privacy workshop (reference ACTION-408): http://www.w3.org/2010/api-privacy-ws/ 17:19:24 action-408: CFP (draft?) is http://www.w3.org/2010/api-privacy-ws/ 17:19:24 ACTION-408 Look into next steps on a workshop around device APIs, privacy etc. with tlr notes added 17:19:34 action-401? 17:19:34 ACTION-401 -- Ashok Malhotra to ask WebApps working group to review John Kemp's taxonomy -- due 2010-03-18 -- OPEN 17:19:34 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/401 17:19:55 AM: One reply came back 17:20:13 action-401 pending review 17:20:23 action-401? 17:20:23 ACTION-401 -- Ashok Malhotra to ask WebApps working group to review John Kemp's taxonomy -- due 2010-03-18 -- PENDINGREVIEW 17:20:23 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/401 17:20:52 this is the email I sent with the CVS diff of edits related to ACTION-384 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/tag/2010Mar/0054.html 17:21:17 action-213 due 4 May 17:21:17 ACTION-213 Prepare 22 Apr weekly teleconference agenda due date now 4 May 17:23:01 action-370? 17:23:01 ACTION-370 -- Henry S. Thompson to hST to send a revised-as-amended version of http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2009Dec/0068.html to the HTTP bis list on behalf of the TAG -- due 2010-04-08 -- OPEN 17:23:01 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/370 17:23:14 action-370 due +2 weeks 17:23:14 ACTION-370 HST to send a revised-as-amended version of http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2009Dec/0068.html to the HTTP bis list on behalf of the TAG due date now +2 weeks 17:23:27 NM: HST to catch up/roll forward his behind-actions ASAP 17:24:12 Topic: ACTION-407: HTML WG and media type registration 17:24:21 NM: Did you close this last week by mistake? 17:24:40 +TimBL 17:24:49 Hi Tim 17:26:08 action-407? 17:26:08 ACTION-407 -- Henry S. Thompson to propose an update to DanC's prose from http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Feb/0878.html to explicitly reference or encorporate the HTML history, similarly to the way 2854 does -- due 2010-04-22 -- PENDINGREVIEW 17:26:08 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/407 17:26:11 HST: Let's reopen it and keep it PENDING REVIEW 17:26:49 johnk_ has joined #tagmem 17:26:49 HST: So there have been several replies to my email [link coming] 17:27:23 Please paste link to public-html thread 17:27:34 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Apr/thread.html#msg1052 17:29:03 works for me: "Labeling a 17:29:03 resource with the text/html type asserts that the resource is 17:29:03 to be interpreted as an HTML document using the HTML syntax, and 17:29:03 that it conforms either to this specification or to an earlier 17:29:03 HTML specification. 17:29:04 " 17:32:33 johnk_ has joined #tagmem 17:33:22 (no conformance claim? that seems silly to me) 17:33:30 HT: Serving as text/html makes >no< conformance claims...it just says, use this spec 17:33:36 DC: That's not a conformance claim? 17:33:38 HT: No. 17:34:14 HT: I took it that the wording we carefully agreed had the intent "use this spec"; whether you think there's an implicit claim of conformance...well, we didn't say that. 17:36:55 action-407: hst plans to reply on his own behalf to the thread http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Apr/thread.html#msg1052 and leave it to the group to decide in due course 17:36:55 ACTION-407 Propose an update to DanC's prose from http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Feb/0878.html to explicitly reference or encorporate the HTML history, similarly to the way 2854 does notes added 17:38:04 scribenick: ht 17:39:08 Topic: ACTION-354 Client-side storage 17:39:24 AM: WebApps WG is publishing a number of specs 17:39:47 ... We have agreed to look at the motivation -- what's behind them 17:40:05 ... The WAWG have a model of how that world is going to evolve 17:40:12 ... but it's not completely spelled out 17:40:28 ... Two requirements: 1) You should be able to 'run' a WebApp offline; 17:40:45 ... 2) You should be able to run a WebApp with data from more than one website. 17:41:19 ... So they have a spec. callled "Programmable Caching", which lets you bring in data from multiple websites, cache it, purge it, use it, etc. 17:41:26 ... which is quite well-motivated. 17:41:53 ... The other spec. we talked about and I have looked at are two database specs: Light Database and ?? Database 17:42:13 ... These seem less well-motivated 17:42:28 ... I asked Ian Hickson why they were doing these specs 17:42:46 (sorry, I can't pin down the 2 DB specs among the blizzard on http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/PubStatus ) 17:43:00 AM: Ian replied it was a replacement for cookies 17:43:20 s/Indexed/Database/ 17:43:20 "Cookies are unreliable, sent to the server, have a small quota, and have a terrible API. Web Storage is intended to fix that. 17:43:31 s/??/Indexed/ 17:43:39 q? 17:43:53 s/that./that."/ 17:44:08 NM: I understand the cookie overlap 17:44:48 ... but when I see these database things, I think -- cookies for identifying me to gmail, but databases to actually _store_ my email 17:44:53 ... which seems to go a lot further 17:45:04 AM: Right, that's the offline operation side of things 17:45:24 NM: The other thing about cookies is their special status wrt HTTP and client-server interaction 17:46:03 (did anybody take the ball for writing about this stuff? darn; we didn't scribble names into http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2010/03/webappsoutline.html ; gotta look back over http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2010/03/26-minutes.html#item03 ) 17:46:04 AM: These specs are very high-functionality, with a lot of standard DB transactional stuff including commit and rollback 17:46:44 q? 17:46:56 (ah... "AM: I'll contribute on section 5, app state") 17:47:26 AM: Summarizing: replace cookies, offline storage enabling offline execution; data from multiple websites 17:48:30 Topic: WebApps document strategy 17:48:54 NM: At the f2f, we agreed to try to find people to pick up bits of the outline we produced 17:49:22 ... and start writing at least a summary of the state of play, as in TV's [#-in-URI] 17:50:09 ... So in particular, AM, are you willing to go on the list against section 5: Application State 17:50:11 AM: Yes 17:50:57 q+ 17:51:06 ack next 17:51:08 ACTION: Ashok to propose a plan for his contributions to section 5: Client-side state 17:51:08 Created ACTION-430 - Propose a plan for his contributions to section 5: Client-side state [on Ashok Malhotra - due 2010-04-29]. 17:51:26 action-xxx due +4 weeks 17:51:38 action-409 due +1 week 17:51:38 ACTION-409 Run Larry's plan for closing IRIEverywhere by the XML Core WG due date now +1 week 17:52:02 action-430 due +1 week 17:52:02 ACTION-430 Propose a plan for his contributions to section 5: Client-side state due date now +1 week 17:52:20 DC: TBL, when did you write the Tabulator? 17:52:30 TBL: Three years ago, maybe? 17:52:54 DC: I wonder if it might be worth trying to get from you what you learned from that exercise 17:53:01 ... about security, storage, . . . 17:53:13 ... Maybe via an interview? 17:53:28 TBL: About . . . 17:53:48 DC: Javascript, security limitations 17:53:54 I'm curious what the result of the interview would be: a) input to the TAG work b) magazine article c) ??? 17:54:18 TBL: Started out as a webapp, turned into a local app == a firefox extension, because that got it inside the trust envelop 17:54:30 ... You should talk to ?? about this, he's been taking it forward 17:54:52 ... using CORS 17:54:59 James Hollenbach 17:55:03 s/?// 17:55:04 http://dig.csail.mit.edu/2005/ajar/ajaw/people/Overview.html Jim Hollenbach 17:55:42 s/??/James Hollenbach/ 17:55:45 17:56:21 NM: So if we did such an interview, would it be as an input to our thinking about WebAppArchitecture, or as a publication in its own right? 17:56:37 DC: more the latter, see the series Ian Jacobs has been doing 17:56:44 NM: Next steps? 17:56:50 DC: I found out what I wanted to. . . 17:57:27 pointer, ashok? 17:57:36 AM: We did get one reply to our request to review our webapps taxonomy 17:58:04 action-401? 17:58:04 ACTION-401 -- Ashok Malhotra to ask WebApps working group to review John Kemp's taxonomy -- due 2010-03-18 -- PENDINGREVIEW 17:58:04 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/401 17:58:06 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2010Mar/0072.html 17:58:31 close action-354 17:58:31 ACTION-354 Review client side storage apis (web simple storage etc.), looking for architectural issues or other critical problems... or interesting design features the TAG should know about closed 17:58:40 NM: [we'll come to that under next agendum] 17:58:46 close ACTION-354 17:58:46 ACTION-354 Review client side storage apis (web simple storage etc.), looking for architectural issues or other critical problems... or interesting design features the TAG should know about closed 17:59:02 s/next/next+1/ 17:59:24 Topic: ACTION-392 RDFa and client-side storage 17:59:25 DC: looked at Zotoro? tool, and saw they were using Tabulator as data store 17:59:28 ACTION-392? 17:59:28 ACTION-392 -- Dan Connolly to look into using new client side storage APIs as an RDFa or tabulator data store -- due 2010-03-17 -- PENDINGREVIEW 17:59:28 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/392 17:59:42 DC: So I thought there was a connection, and I sent email 17:59:49 johnk__ has joined #tagmem 17:59:58 ... but the reply was not positive 18:00:12 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2010Feb/0152.html 18:00:32 DC: TBL, are the client-side storage API any use for storing triples? 18:00:40 s/API/APIs/ 18:01:27 TBL: Some kind of RDF API standardisation is probably needed -- RDF is 10 years old, maybe an XG, we need to move on this 18:02:14 -TimBL 18:02:34 close action-392 18:02:34 ACTION-392 Look into using new client side storage APIs as an RDFa or tabulator data store closed 18:02:45 close ACTION-392 18:02:45 ACTION-392 Look into using new client side storage APIs as an RDFa or tabulator data store closed 18:03:21 Topic: ACTION-401 ask for review of webapp taxonomy 18:03:29 Email from Ashok to Web Apps http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2010Mar/0044.html 18:03:38 Response: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2010Mar/0072.html 18:04:36 JK: I understand the poster's concern about my use of the word 'trust', but I think it was OK in the narrow sense I used it, 18:04:56 ... but I also agree that the larger issue has not been completely covered 18:04:57 (this widget stuff is crossing various sorts of finish lines; e.g. http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/CR-widgets-access-20100420/ Widget Access Request Policy ) 18:05:27 AM: So yes, he's asking for more detail on something which was just a bullet point 18:05:28 Dan, do you think we need to do anything on that? 18:05:32 -John_Kemp 18:05:35 HST: But it doesn't compromise the taxonomy? 18:05:42 AM: Right, it does not. 18:06:06 close ACTION-401 18:06:06 ACTION-401 Ask WebApps working group to review John Kemp's taxonomy closed 18:06:28 DC: Does this connect with our outline and writing? 18:06:29 stuck it where? pointer? 18:06:42 +John_Kemp 18:06:55 AM: I took comments from the email and added them to the WebApps outline 18:06:57 DC: Where? 18:07:25 s/outline/outline under point 1 Architecture/ 18:08:06 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2010/04/WebApps.html 18:09:35 http://www.w3.org/2005/03/28-editor-style.html 18:09:39 timbl has joined #tagmem 18:10:41 action-401: note http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2010/04/WebApps.html 18:10:41 ACTION-401 Ask WebApps working group to review John Kemp's taxonomy notes added 18:11:22 action-352? 18:11:22 ACTION-352 -- John Kemp to integrate whiteboard drawings into a prose document about ways to distribute applications -- due 2010-03-08 -- PENDINGREVIEW 18:11:22 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/352 18:11:37 I cannot cahnge the access right -- needs team priviledges 18:11:42 -John_Kemp 18:11:45 John, should we close 352 18:11:50 john, NM thinks maybe it's just an admin error that 352 isn't closed 18:12:01 should we have closed it at 352 18:12:03 I did ACTION-352, but, at the F2F we decided to keep the action open 18:12:07 -Ht 18:12:14 scribenick: DanC 18:12:17 as a placeholder for me to do more work on it 18:12:24 in the WebApps subject 18:12:26 ok 18:12:27 OK, with what due date and what next goals, please? 18:12:42 Anyway, please update as you see fit. We'll move on if you can't get back on the phone. 18:12:45 ACTION-352? 18:12:45 ACTION-352 -- John Kemp to integrate whiteboard drawings into a prose document about ways to distribute applications -- due 2010-03-08 -- PENDINGREVIEW 18:12:45 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/352 18:12:57 action-352 due +2 weeks 18:12:57 ACTION-352 Integrate whiteboard drawings into a prose document about ways to distribute applications due date now +2 weeks 18:13:04 hmm, OK, so, I'll change the due date and add relevant notes 18:13:10 thanks. 18:13:13 action-376? 18:13:13 ACTION-376 -- Daniel Appelquist to send to www-tag a pointer to and brief summary of Mobile Web Best Practices working group's "Guidelines for Web Content Transformation Proxies" and its implications for content sniffing : http://www.w3.org/TR/ct-guidelines/ -- due 2010-03-17 -- PENDINGREVIEW 18:13:13 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/376 18:13:44 but I'm staying on IRC 18:13:45 Topic: ISSUE-24 (contentTypeOverride-24): Mobile Web "Guidelines for Web Content Transformation Proxies" 18:13:55 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2010Feb/0171.html 18:14:12 DC: I looked and was curious whether the guidelines should cite IETF work. 18:14:17 DKA: yes, this is done 18:14:40 DKA: Yes, I had a discussion with XXX and Larry, and the net was that Larry was satisfied that the correct material was ref'd 18:14:44 DKA: yes, we finished that discussion with Larry about citing the IETF material 18:15:06 close ACTION-376 18:15:06 ACTION-376 Send to www-tag a pointer to and brief summary of Mobile Web Best Practices working group's "Guidelines for Web Content Transformation Proxies" and its implications for content sniffing : http://www.w3.org/TR/ct-guidelines/ closed 18:15:20 DC: OK, Larry can come back if he still has a problem 18:15:26 close ACTION-376 18:15:26 ACTION-376 Send to www-tag a pointer to and brief summary of Mobile Web Best Practices working group's "Guidelines for Web Content Transformation Proxies" and its implications for content sniffing : http://www.w3.org/TR/ct-guidelines/ closed 18:15:50 topic: Review of PENDING REVIEW Action Items 18:15:59 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/pendingreview 18:16:42 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/322 - Ask for W3C resources on writing on hyperlinking 18:16:59 NM: so next time for this one? 18:17:00 DC: yes 18:17:15 action-353? 18:17:15 ACTION-353 -- Noah Mendelsohn to do just a bit of work framing some issues around identification for Ajax apps (remembering the merged maps use case) -- due 2010-03-08 -- PENDINGREVIEW 18:17:15 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/353 18:17:30 close ACTION-353 18:17:30 ACTION-353 Do just a bit of work framing some issues around identification for Ajax apps (remembering the merged maps use case) closed 18:17:31 NM: I think we did this at the ftf; Raman is following up 18:18:37 DanC: re 379... it's certainly published... but oh yeah... we weren't sure if we should follow up re lack of schemas 18:19:30 action-384? 18:19:31 ACTION-384 -- Noah Mendelsohn to cVS usage edits -- due 2010-03-04 -- PENDINGREVIEW 18:19:31 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/384 18:19:45 action-384? 18:19:45 ACTION-384 -- Noah Mendelsohn to cVS usage edits -- due 2010-05-11 -- OPEN 18:19:45 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/384 18:20:48 NM: yes, 407 and 424 are properly pending 18:22:03 HENRY ===> PLEASE REMOVE URI FOR PRIVACY CFP FROM PUBLISHED MINUTES 18:22:34 ADJOURN 18:22:49 -Ashok_Malhotra 18:22:51 s,FYI this is the CfP for the privacy workshop (reference ACTION-408): http://www.w3.org/2010/api-privacy-ws/,, 18:23:06 s,action-408: CFP (draft?) is http://www.w3.org/2010/api-privacy-ws/,, 18:23:29 -DanC 18:25:14 timbl has joined #tagmem 18:32:51 -DKA 18:32:52 -Noah_Mendelsohn 18:32:52 TAG_Weekly()1:00PM has ended 18:32:54 Attendees were Noah_Mendelsohn, DKA, Ashok_Malhotra, DanC, Ht, John_Kemp, TimBL 20:29:40 Zakim has left #tagmem 21:45:24 timbl has joined #tagmem 21:46:00 Couldn't fd any evidence for Royal Mail saying you couldn't link to their site. 21:56:28 timbl has joined #tagmem 21:56:36 timbl has joined #tagmem 22:03:31 timbl_ has joined #tagmem 22:03:49 timbl has joined #tagmem 22:27:08 timbl_ has joined #tagmem 22:42:28 "We constantly change and update sections of our site, and want to ensure that you and your customers continue to get the latest information and services you need. Therefore, please don’t provide links to pages on our website other than those listed above." -- http://www.royalmail.com/portal/rm/content1?catId=28000674&mediaId=28100668 23:21:39 timbl has joined #tagmem