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14:32:05 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/04/22-svg-irc
14:32:07 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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14:32:09 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
14:32:09 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see GA_SVGWG()10:30AM scheduled to start 2 minutes ago
14:32:10 <trackbot> Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
14:32:10 <trackbot> Date: 22 April 2010
14:32:47 <Zakim> GA_SVGWG()10:30AM has now started
14:32:53 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:33:00 <ed> Zakim, [IP is me
14:33:00 <Zakim> +ed; got it
14:33:15 <Zakim> +Shepazu
14:33:21 <Zakim> +ChrisL
14:36:21 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
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14:37:35 <ed> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/types.html#DataTypeNumber
14:39:22 <ChrisL> ACTION-2730?
14:39:22 <trackbot> ACTION-2730 -- Chris Lilley to fix the broken grammar for scientific notation in SVG 1.1 and 1.2T -- due 2010-02-18 -- OPEN
14:39:22 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2730
14:39:39 <ChrisL> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/11-svg-minutes.html#ActionSummary
14:40:00 <ed> 9e-1
14:40:19 <ChrisL> scientific-number ::= decimal-number [Ee] integer
14:40:41 <ChrisL> http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGTiny12/types.html#DataTypeInteger
14:42:54 <ed> 9e-.4
14:42:54 <ChrisL> scribe: chris
14:43:01 <ChrisL> scribenick: chrisl
14:43:39 <ChrisL> .6e3
14:45:43 <ChrisL> action: chris to fix the definition of number to allow scientific notation in attribute values
14:45:44 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2765 - Fix the definition of number to allow scientific notation in attribute values [on Chris Lilley - due 2010-04-29].
14:46:45 <ChrisL> implementations certainly allow .3 and i think they allow .3e3 as well
14:47:40 <ChrisL> need to add a test for that syntax for stroke width or something
14:49:55 <ed> "When used in an SVG attribute that is not also a presentation attribute, a <number> is defined differently, to allow numbers with large magnitudes to be specified more concisely:"
14:50:22 <ed> should be changed to allow scientific notation in presentation attributes
14:50:59 <ChrisL> that text is new, wrong, and easily fixed
14:51:15 <ed> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010AprJun/0031.html
14:51:35 <ChrisL> Topic: Moving/closing open issues and actions on SVG 1.1F2
14:52:34 <ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010AprJun/0025.html
14:53:34 <ChrisL> There was some discussion recently on Line caps drawing on zero length lines
14:53:54 <ChrisL> jeff schiller argued it was pointless, dr olaf said it was needed
14:54:34 <ChrisL> ISSUE-2259?
14:54:34 <trackbot> ISSUE-2259 -- Inconsistent use of <uri> symbol -- RAISED
14:54:34 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2259
14:54:48 <ChrisL> chris: hard to grep for url( in the tests
14:55:05 <ChrisL> erik: some errors in the markup, maybe from master to publish
14:55:16 <ed> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/masking.html#MaskProperty
14:55:33 <ChrisL> should use func
14:55:47 <ed> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/masking.html#ClipPathProperty
14:56:09 <ChrisL> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/master/masking.html#ClipPathProperty
14:56:42 <ChrisL> <a href="types.html#DataTypeFuncIRI">&amp;ltfunc;iri&gt;</a>
14:57:15 <ChrisL> yes needs to be fixed in master
14:58:07 <ChrisL> erik: is it only properties that use funcIRI?
14:58:11 <ed> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/propidx.html (looks broken there too)
14:58:23 <ChrisL> chris: in 1.1 yes. 1.2t also uses it for navigation
14:59:44 <ChrisL> erik: need to check all of these from the property table. not autogenerated. need to edit idd files?
15:01:35 <ChrisL> erik: will have a look at the scripts in case there is automation there
15:02:00 <ChrisL> ISSUE-2305?
15:02:00 <trackbot> ISSUE-2305 -- Line caps drawing on zero length lines -- RAISED
15:02:00 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2305
15:02:11 <ChrisL> ISSUE-2314?
15:02:11 <trackbot> ISSUE-2314 -- Negative values in polygon/polyline points -- RAISED
15:02:11 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2314
15:02:21 <ChrisL> erik: lets move that to 2.0
15:02:40 <ChrisL> doug: jeff would rather adress it now I think.
15:06:10 <ChrisL> (we think most implementations allow space to be omitted if the second argument is negative)
15:06:15 <ChrisL> moveto-argument-sequence:
15:06:15 <ChrisL>     coordinate-pair
15:06:15 <ChrisL>     | coordinate-pair comma-wsp? lineto-argument-sequence
15:06:15 <ChrisL> moveto-argument-sequence:
15:06:15 <ChrisL>     coordinate-pair
15:06:16 <ChrisL>     | coordinate-pair comma-wsp? lineto-argument-sequence
15:06:50 <ChrisL> coordinate-pair:
15:06:50 <ChrisL>     coordinate comma-wsp? coordinate
15:07:12 <ChrisL> so it should be
15:07:31 <ChrisL> coordinate-pair:
15:07:31 <ChrisL>     coordinate comma-wsp? coordinate | coordinate negativecoordinate
15:09:47 <ChrisL> (we do some browser testing on the fly with inconsistent results)
15:10:17 <ChrisL> patrick: opera and ie9 both read the negative as a separator
15:10:21 <ChrisL> ... firefox is not
15:10:33 <ChrisL> erik: safari has a green rect
15:10:59 <ChrisL> erik: trying batik ....
15:11:07 <ChrisL> ...green rect as well
15:11:27 <ChrisL> chris: so all but firefox, in summary
15:12:04 <ChrisL> i think this is one we should do now
15:12:13 <ChrisL> doug: illustrator shows a green box too
15:12:38 <patrickd>   <polygon fill="red" transform="translate(100,100)"
15:12:38 <patrickd> points="0,0,100,0,100,-100,0,-100" />
15:12:38 <patrickd>   <polygon fill="green" transform="translate(200,200)"
15:12:38 <patrickd>  points="0,0,100,0,100-100,0-100" />
15:12:38 <patrickd>   <polygon fill="red" transform="translate(300,300)"
15:12:39 <patrickd>  points="0,0,100,0,100,-100,0,-100" />
15:12:41 <patrickd>   <polygon fill="green" transform="translate(400,400)"
15:12:43 <patrickd>  points="0,0,100,0,100-100,0-100" />
15:14:19 <shepazu> <svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" viewBox="0 -100 100 100">
15:14:21 <shepazu>  <polygon fill="red" points="0,0,100,0,100,-100,0,-100" />
15:14:23 <shepazu>  <polygon fill="green" points="0,0,100,0,100-100,0-100" />
15:14:25 <shepazu> </svg>
15:14:29 <ChrisL> action chris: edit path bnf for Negative values in polygon/polyline points
15:14:29 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2766 - Edit path bnf for Negative values in polygon/polyline points [on Chris Lilley - due 2010-04-29].
15:14:49 <ChrisL> action chris: test for  path bnf for Negative values in polygon/polyline points
15:14:49 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2767 - Test for  path bnf for Negative values in polygon/polyline points [on Chris Lilley - due 2010-04-29].
15:15:09 <ChrisL> ISSUE-2317?
15:15:09 <trackbot> ISSUE-2317 -- Give different result for feGaussianBlur stdDeviation=0 -- RAISED
15:15:09 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2317
15:15:38 <ChrisL> erik: made some changes to a local copy of svg filters, not completed yet, will split the equation for x and y
15:15:48 <ChrisL> ... as dr hoffman suggested
15:16:29 <ChrisL> chris: we try to avoid having zero be a singularity
15:16:49 <ChrisL> erik: ok will do in filters, then backport to 1.1 if it works ok and there is time
15:16:58 <ChrisL> action-2189?
15:16:58 <trackbot> ACTION-2189 -- Erik Dahlström to clarify that stdDeviation="25,0" for feGaussianBlur still means that the filter must be rendered -- due 2008-12-31 -- OPEN
15:16:58 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2189
15:17:20 <ChrisL> erik: added some tests for this in filter module so can add those
15:17:44 <ChrisL> ... but no implementation handles it, they all give no output for zero
15:18:04 <ChrisL> chris: can opera change to add that?
15:18:11 <ChrisL> erik: already done, ha!
15:18:37 <ed> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/modules/filters/test/svg/filters-gauss-201.svg
15:19:25 <ChrisL> ISSUE-2318?
15:19:25 <trackbot> ISSUE-2318 -- How should text-decorations be rendered wrt boundingbox units (gradients, filters)? -- RAISED
15:19:25 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2318
15:19:35 <ChrisL> erik: more of a clarification
15:20:50 <ChrisL> chris: a test with a small text string like "..." would show this
15:21:02 <ChrisL> erik: or an svg font with a huge underline offset
15:21:14 <ChrisL> s/this/this with strikethrough and underline/
15:21:31 <ChrisL> doug: better to do in 2.0 as we attack decorated bounding box then
15:21:33 <ChrisL> chris: yes
15:21:45 <ChrisL> erik: can test with getBbox
15:22:02 <ChrisL> doug: depends what it takes into account. eg not stroke width
15:22:10 <ChrisL> erik: its the glyphbox
15:23:20 <ChrisL> chris: it all depends on whether the strike and underline are considered part of the glyph or are considered extra graphics drawn along with the glyph
15:23:32 <ChrisL> erik: text decoration not implemented in firefox
15:23:48 <ChrisL> doug: text support in svg in firefox needs work
15:24:07 <ChrisL> ... jwatt aware of the issue
15:24:21 <ChrisL> chris: agree, move to 2.0
15:24:27 <ChrisL> erik: updating issue now
15:25:01 <ChrisL> Topic: open 1.1 actions
15:25:04 <ChrisL> ACTION-2077?
15:25:04 <trackbot> ACTION-2077 -- Erik Dahlström to test implementations for percentage values in clipPath, etc. -- due 2008-07-03 -- OPEN
15:25:04 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2077
15:25:30 <ChrisL> erik: mre exploratory, change how clippath percent units are resolved, more of a 2.0 thing
15:25:40 <ChrisL> s/mire/more/
15:25:49 <ChrisL> moved to 2.0
15:26:18 <ed> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/products/1
15:26:29 <ChrisL> erik: hmm the issue is already 2.0 but it shows in tracker as a 1.1 action, odd
15:27:34 <ChrisL> chris (some tracker bugs if issues and actions are on different products)
15:28:31 <ChrisL> erik: want a deadline for completing these actions
15:28:38 <ChrisL> chris: one week
15:28:52 <ChrisL> erik: ok, one week. if not done, mark as 2.0
15:29:18 <ChrisL> patrick: if they don't get attention then we can move thwem and worry later if they still are relevant
15:29:41 <ChrisL> patrick: cvs access still not working
15:30:20 <ChrisL> ACTION-2590?
15:30:20 <trackbot> ACTION-2590 -- Cameron McCormack to ensure javadocs get published when 1.1F2 is published -- due 2009-06-09 -- OPEN
15:30:20 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2590
15:30:28 <ChrisL> erik: not sure if that has been done
15:30:35 <ChrisL> doug: mail heycam and ask
15:30:39 <ChrisL> erik: will do
15:30:51 <ChrisL> action erik to mail heycam about ACTION-2590
15:30:51 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2768 - Mail heycam about ACTION-2590 [on Erik Dahlström - due 2010-04-29].
15:31:29 <ChrisL> ACTION-2644?
15:31:29 <trackbot> ACTION-2644 -- Chris Lilley to update the 1.1 DTD under /Graphics/SVG when publishing 1.1SE -- due 2009-08-12 -- OPEN
15:31:29 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2644
15:31:53 <ChrisL> chris: do we want a dtd? we are guiding people away from them
15:32:29 <ChrisL> chris: we would need to update the DTD for all changes
15:32:40 <ChrisL> erik: ned to harvest already for default values
15:33:11 <ChrisL> chris: much clearer to say "if not specified" than to have a dtd snippet
15:33:30 <ChrisL> action: erik check the DTD for defaulted values and put lacuna wording in the spec for each one
15:33:31 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2769 - Check the DTD for defaulted values and put lacuna wording in the spec for each one [on Erik Dahlström - due 2010-04-29].
15:34:23 <ChrisL> chris: did we add or remove attributes or elements?
15:34:34 <ChrisL> erik: something about font or font face elements.
15:34:38 <ChrisL> ... not sure
15:34:44 <ChrisL> ... check the errata page
15:35:11 <ChrisL> chris; ok if we already made dtd changes from errata we need to republish that DTD
15:35:12 <ed> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/errata.xml
15:35:32 <ChrisL> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/errata.xml#font_module_add_fontface
15:36:50 <ChrisL> ok so only one dtd change, easy to do
15:37:05 <ChrisL> erik: it was correct in the dtd not in the spec snippet
15:37:15 <ChrisL> ... so we can copy the old DTD in fact
15:37:35 <ChrisL> chris: if its identical no need for an update
15:38:24 <ChrisL> close ACTION-2644
15:38:24 <trackbot> ACTION-2644 Update the 1.1 DTD under /Graphics/SVG when publishing 1.1SE closed
15:38:50 <ChrisL> ACTION-2743?
15:38:50 <trackbot> ACTION-2743 -- Chris Lilley to make a harness version of the 1.1SE errata tests and link to imp report -- due 2010-03-22 -- OPEN
15:38:50 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2743
15:39:59 <ChrisL> chris: if there are unapproved tests then i will agenda+ them for monday
15:41:20 <ChrisL> erik: is it better to change the fx taskforce telcon now or have the call and decisde on the call a new time?
15:41:37 <ChrisL> doug: better for me to have it the week after (www2101)
15:42:05 <ChrisL> ... better to change the time now ad postpone the call
15:42:09 <ChrisL> erik: ok
15:42:21 <ChrisL> topic: f2f agenda
15:42:23 <ed> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Brussels%2C_Belgium_F2F#Agenda
15:43:19 <ChrisL> erik: day planning is usuall done in the first session so its not fixed yet
15:43:41 <ChrisL> patrick: wondering if we want to spend a full day on second edition work?
15:43:59 <ChrisL> erik: if its done before then not, otherwise its a way to get it done
15:45:09 <ChrisL> patrick: what is this about a conformance report?
15:45:58 <patrickd> These tests, and the corresponding implementation reports are intended not to test implementations
15:46:00 <ChrisL> (explains the difference between implementation testing and conformance certification)
15:46:51 <patrickd> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Test_Suite_Overview
15:47:54 <ChrisL> These tests, and the corresponding implementation reports are intended not to certify implementations as conforming, but rather the interoperable implementability of the specification itself. 
15:47:59 <ChrisL> the wonders of wiki
15:49:19 <ChrisL> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/implementation-report.html
15:50:12 <ChrisL> patrick: the 1.1 test suite is seen by the public as a conformance suite. and there are a lot of animation tetss, which we don't pass
15:51:13 <ChrisL> doug: this is a fundamental part of the process. we have to make implementation reports
15:53:39 <ChrisL> chris: all the browsers started with low scores. this is not surprising
15:54:48 <ChrisL> doug:yes we do need more tests
15:55:46 <ChrisL> erik: we can do more testing of interactions
15:56:10 <ChrisL> doug: also svg=html tets are needed - good to test, but outside our current scope
15:56:21 <ChrisL> s/svg=/svg+/
15:56:35 <ChrisL> erik: want to see that in the charter for the new work in svg 2.0
15:57:00 <ChrisL> doug: very bad for morale to hold up 1.1se while the test suite gets bigger
15:57:41 <ChrisL> patrick: happy to contribute more tests as long as they are reviewed
15:58:02 <ChrisL> doug: its time consuming work. 1.2T spent a year to do that
15:58:18 <ChrisL> erik: we need a new automated test harness really
15:58:29 <ChrisL> doug: can call this out more explicitly
16:03:05 <ChrisL> doug: goot to have microsoft join the SVG IG to help with torture tests
16:04:09 <ChrisL> patrick: location for the extra two days are now confirmed
16:04:13 <ChrisL> adjourned
16:04:15 <Zakim> -ed
16:04:17 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
16:04:20 <Zakim> -Shepazu
16:04:40 <Zakim> -ChrisL
16:04:42 <Zakim> GA_SVGWG()10:30AM has ended
16:04:43 <Zakim> Attendees were [IPcaller], ed, Shepazu, ChrisL, [Microsoft]
16:07:35 <ChrisL> rrsagent, make minutes
16:07:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/04/22-svg-minutes.html ChrisL
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