IRC log of svg on 2010-04-22

Timestamps are in UTC.

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logging to
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RRSAgent, make logs public
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Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
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ok, trackbot; I see GA_SVGWG()10:30AM scheduled to start 2 minutes ago
14:32:10 [trackbot]
Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
14:32:10 [trackbot]
Date: 22 April 2010
14:32:47 [Zakim]
GA_SVGWG()10:30AM has now started
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14:33:00 [ed]
Zakim, [IP is me
14:33:00 [Zakim]
+ed; got it
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14:36:21 [Zakim]
14:36:48 [patrickd]
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14:37:35 [ed]
14:39:22 [ChrisL]
14:39:22 [trackbot]
ACTION-2730 -- Chris Lilley to fix the broken grammar for scientific notation in SVG 1.1 and 1.2T -- due 2010-02-18 -- OPEN
14:39:22 [trackbot]
14:39:39 [ChrisL]
14:40:00 [ed]
14:40:19 [ChrisL]
scientific-number ::= decimal-number [Ee] integer
14:40:41 [ChrisL]
14:42:54 [ed]
14:42:54 [ChrisL]
scribe: chris
14:43:01 [ChrisL]
scribenick: chrisl
14:43:39 [ChrisL]
14:45:43 [ChrisL]
action: chris to fix the definition of number to allow scientific notation in attribute values
14:45:44 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2765 - Fix the definition of number to allow scientific notation in attribute values [on Chris Lilley - due 2010-04-29].
14:46:45 [ChrisL]
implementations certainly allow .3 and i think they allow .3e3 as well
14:47:40 [ChrisL]
need to add a test for that syntax for stroke width or something
14:49:55 [ed]
"When used in an SVG attribute that is not also a presentation attribute, a <number> is defined differently, to allow numbers with large magnitudes to be specified more concisely:"
14:50:22 [ed]
should be changed to allow scientific notation in presentation attributes
14:50:59 [ChrisL]
that text is new, wrong, and easily fixed
14:51:15 [ed]
14:51:35 [ChrisL]
Topic: Moving/closing open issues and actions on SVG 1.1F2
14:52:34 [ed]
14:53:34 [ChrisL]
There was some discussion recently on Line caps drawing on zero length lines
14:53:54 [ChrisL]
jeff schiller argued it was pointless, dr olaf said it was needed
14:54:34 [ChrisL]
14:54:34 [trackbot]
ISSUE-2259 -- Inconsistent use of <uri> symbol -- RAISED
14:54:34 [trackbot]
14:54:48 [ChrisL]
chris: hard to grep for url( in the tests
14:55:05 [ChrisL]
erik: some errors in the markup, maybe from master to publish
14:55:16 [ed]
14:55:33 [ChrisL]
should use func
14:55:47 [ed]
14:56:09 [ChrisL]
14:56:42 [ChrisL]
<a href="types.html#DataTypeFuncIRI">&amp;ltfunc;iri&gt;</a>
14:57:15 [ChrisL]
yes needs to be fixed in master
14:58:07 [ChrisL]
erik: is it only properties that use funcIRI?
14:58:11 [ed] (looks broken there too)
14:58:23 [ChrisL]
chris: in 1.1 yes. 1.2t also uses it for navigation
14:59:44 [ChrisL]
erik: need to check all of these from the property table. not autogenerated. need to edit idd files?
15:01:35 [ChrisL]
erik: will have a look at the scripts in case there is automation there
15:02:00 [ChrisL]
15:02:00 [trackbot]
ISSUE-2305 -- Line caps drawing on zero length lines -- RAISED
15:02:00 [trackbot]
15:02:11 [ChrisL]
15:02:11 [trackbot]
ISSUE-2314 -- Negative values in polygon/polyline points -- RAISED
15:02:11 [trackbot]
15:02:21 [ChrisL]
erik: lets move that to 2.0
15:02:40 [ChrisL]
doug: jeff would rather adress it now I think.
15:06:10 [ChrisL]
(we think most implementations allow space to be omitted if the second argument is negative)
15:06:15 [ChrisL]
15:06:15 [ChrisL]
15:06:15 [ChrisL]
| coordinate-pair comma-wsp? lineto-argument-sequence
15:06:15 [ChrisL]
15:06:15 [ChrisL]
15:06:16 [ChrisL]
| coordinate-pair comma-wsp? lineto-argument-sequence
15:06:50 [ChrisL]
15:06:50 [ChrisL]
coordinate comma-wsp? coordinate
15:07:12 [ChrisL]
so it should be
15:07:31 [ChrisL]
15:07:31 [ChrisL]
coordinate comma-wsp? coordinate | coordinate negativecoordinate
15:09:47 [ChrisL]
(we do some browser testing on the fly with inconsistent results)
15:10:17 [ChrisL]
patrick: opera and ie9 both read the negative as a separator
15:10:21 [ChrisL]
... firefox is not
15:10:33 [ChrisL]
erik: safari has a green rect
15:10:59 [ChrisL]
erik: trying batik ....
15:11:07 [ChrisL] rect as well
15:11:27 [ChrisL]
chris: so all but firefox, in summary
15:12:04 [ChrisL]
i think this is one we should do now
15:12:13 [ChrisL]
doug: illustrator shows a green box too
15:12:38 [patrickd]
<polygon fill="red" transform="translate(100,100)"
15:12:38 [patrickd]
points="0,0,100,0,100,-100,0,-100" />
15:12:38 [patrickd]
<polygon fill="green" transform="translate(200,200)"
15:12:38 [patrickd]
points="0,0,100,0,100-100,0-100" />
15:12:38 [patrickd]
<polygon fill="red" transform="translate(300,300)"
15:12:39 [patrickd]
points="0,0,100,0,100,-100,0,-100" />
15:12:41 [patrickd]
<polygon fill="green" transform="translate(400,400)"
15:12:43 [patrickd]
points="0,0,100,0,100-100,0-100" />
15:14:19 [shepazu]
<svg xmlns="" viewBox="0 -100 100 100">
15:14:21 [shepazu]
<polygon fill="red" points="0,0,100,0,100,-100,0,-100" />
15:14:23 [shepazu]
<polygon fill="green" points="0,0,100,0,100-100,0-100" />
15:14:25 [shepazu]
15:14:29 [ChrisL]
action chris: edit path bnf for Negative values in polygon/polyline points
15:14:29 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2766 - Edit path bnf for Negative values in polygon/polyline points [on Chris Lilley - due 2010-04-29].
15:14:49 [ChrisL]
action chris: test for path bnf for Negative values in polygon/polyline points
15:14:49 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2767 - Test for path bnf for Negative values in polygon/polyline points [on Chris Lilley - due 2010-04-29].
15:15:09 [ChrisL]
15:15:09 [trackbot]
ISSUE-2317 -- Give different result for feGaussianBlur stdDeviation=0 -- RAISED
15:15:09 [trackbot]
15:15:38 [ChrisL]
erik: made some changes to a local copy of svg filters, not completed yet, will split the equation for x and y
15:15:48 [ChrisL]
... as dr hoffman suggested
15:16:29 [ChrisL]
chris: we try to avoid having zero be a singularity
15:16:49 [ChrisL]
erik: ok will do in filters, then backport to 1.1 if it works ok and there is time
15:16:58 [ChrisL]
15:16:58 [trackbot]
ACTION-2189 -- Erik Dahlström to clarify that stdDeviation="25,0" for feGaussianBlur still means that the filter must be rendered -- due 2008-12-31 -- OPEN
15:16:58 [trackbot]
15:17:20 [ChrisL]
erik: added some tests for this in filter module so can add those
15:17:44 [ChrisL]
... but no implementation handles it, they all give no output for zero
15:18:04 [ChrisL]
chris: can opera change to add that?
15:18:11 [ChrisL]
erik: already done, ha!
15:18:37 [ed]
15:19:25 [ChrisL]
15:19:25 [trackbot]
ISSUE-2318 -- How should text-decorations be rendered wrt boundingbox units (gradients, filters)? -- RAISED
15:19:25 [trackbot]
15:19:35 [ChrisL]
erik: more of a clarification
15:20:50 [ChrisL]
chris: a test with a small text string like "..." would show this
15:21:02 [ChrisL]
erik: or an svg font with a huge underline offset
15:21:14 [ChrisL]
s/this/this with strikethrough and underline/
15:21:31 [ChrisL]
doug: better to do in 2.0 as we attack decorated bounding box then
15:21:33 [ChrisL]
chris: yes
15:21:45 [ChrisL]
erik: can test with getBbox
15:22:02 [ChrisL]
doug: depends what it takes into account. eg not stroke width
15:22:10 [ChrisL]
erik: its the glyphbox
15:23:20 [ChrisL]
chris: it all depends on whether the strike and underline are considered part of the glyph or are considered extra graphics drawn along with the glyph
15:23:32 [ChrisL]
erik: text decoration not implemented in firefox
15:23:48 [ChrisL]
doug: text support in svg in firefox needs work
15:24:07 [ChrisL]
... jwatt aware of the issue
15:24:21 [ChrisL]
chris: agree, move to 2.0
15:24:27 [ChrisL]
erik: updating issue now
15:25:01 [ChrisL]
Topic: open 1.1 actions
15:25:04 [ChrisL]
15:25:04 [trackbot]
ACTION-2077 -- Erik Dahlström to test implementations for percentage values in clipPath, etc. -- due 2008-07-03 -- OPEN
15:25:04 [trackbot]
15:25:30 [ChrisL]
erik: mre exploratory, change how clippath percent units are resolved, more of a 2.0 thing
15:25:40 [ChrisL]
15:25:49 [ChrisL]
moved to 2.0
15:26:18 [ed]
15:26:29 [ChrisL]
erik: hmm the issue is already 2.0 but it shows in tracker as a 1.1 action, odd
15:27:34 [ChrisL]
chris (some tracker bugs if issues and actions are on different products)
15:28:31 [ChrisL]
erik: want a deadline for completing these actions
15:28:38 [ChrisL]
chris: one week
15:28:52 [ChrisL]
erik: ok, one week. if not done, mark as 2.0
15:29:18 [ChrisL]
patrick: if they don't get attention then we can move thwem and worry later if they still are relevant
15:29:41 [ChrisL]
patrick: cvs access still not working
15:30:20 [ChrisL]
15:30:20 [trackbot]
ACTION-2590 -- Cameron McCormack to ensure javadocs get published when 1.1F2 is published -- due 2009-06-09 -- OPEN
15:30:20 [trackbot]
15:30:28 [ChrisL]
erik: not sure if that has been done
15:30:35 [ChrisL]
doug: mail heycam and ask
15:30:39 [ChrisL]
erik: will do
15:30:51 [ChrisL]
action erik to mail heycam about ACTION-2590
15:30:51 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2768 - Mail heycam about ACTION-2590 [on Erik Dahlström - due 2010-04-29].
15:31:29 [ChrisL]
15:31:29 [trackbot]
ACTION-2644 -- Chris Lilley to update the 1.1 DTD under /Graphics/SVG when publishing 1.1SE -- due 2009-08-12 -- OPEN
15:31:29 [trackbot]
15:31:53 [ChrisL]
chris: do we want a dtd? we are guiding people away from them
15:32:29 [ChrisL]
chris: we would need to update the DTD for all changes
15:32:40 [ChrisL]
erik: ned to harvest already for default values
15:33:11 [ChrisL]
chris: much clearer to say "if not specified" than to have a dtd snippet
15:33:30 [ChrisL]
action: erik check the DTD for defaulted values and put lacuna wording in the spec for each one
15:33:31 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2769 - Check the DTD for defaulted values and put lacuna wording in the spec for each one [on Erik Dahlström - due 2010-04-29].
15:34:23 [ChrisL]
chris: did we add or remove attributes or elements?
15:34:34 [ChrisL]
erik: something about font or font face elements.
15:34:38 [ChrisL]
... not sure
15:34:44 [ChrisL]
... check the errata page
15:35:11 [ChrisL]
chris; ok if we already made dtd changes from errata we need to republish that DTD
15:35:12 [ed]
15:35:32 [ChrisL]
15:36:50 [ChrisL]
ok so only one dtd change, easy to do
15:37:05 [ChrisL]
erik: it was correct in the dtd not in the spec snippet
15:37:15 [ChrisL]
... so we can copy the old DTD in fact
15:37:35 [ChrisL]
chris: if its identical no need for an update
15:38:24 [ChrisL]
close ACTION-2644
15:38:24 [trackbot]
ACTION-2644 Update the 1.1 DTD under /Graphics/SVG when publishing 1.1SE closed
15:38:50 [ChrisL]
15:38:50 [trackbot]
ACTION-2743 -- Chris Lilley to make a harness version of the 1.1SE errata tests and link to imp report -- due 2010-03-22 -- OPEN
15:38:50 [trackbot]
15:39:59 [ChrisL]
chris: if there are unapproved tests then i will agenda+ them for monday
15:41:20 [ChrisL]
erik: is it better to change the fx taskforce telcon now or have the call and decisde on the call a new time?
15:41:37 [ChrisL]
doug: better for me to have it the week after (www2101)
15:42:05 [ChrisL]
... better to change the time now ad postpone the call
15:42:09 [ChrisL]
erik: ok
15:42:21 [ChrisL]
topic: f2f agenda
15:42:23 [ed]
15:43:19 [ChrisL]
erik: day planning is usuall done in the first session so its not fixed yet
15:43:41 [ChrisL]
patrick: wondering if we want to spend a full day on second edition work?
15:43:59 [ChrisL]
erik: if its done before then not, otherwise its a way to get it done
15:45:09 [ChrisL]
patrick: what is this about a conformance report?
15:45:58 [patrickd]
These tests, and the corresponding implementation reports are intended not to test implementations
15:46:00 [ChrisL]
(explains the difference between implementation testing and conformance certification)
15:46:51 [patrickd]
15:47:54 [ChrisL]
These tests, and the corresponding implementation reports are intended not to certify implementations as conforming, but rather the interoperable implementability of the specification itself.
15:47:59 [ChrisL]
the wonders of wiki
15:49:19 [ChrisL]
15:50:12 [ChrisL]
patrick: the 1.1 test suite is seen by the public as a conformance suite. and there are a lot of animation tetss, which we don't pass
15:51:13 [ChrisL]
doug: this is a fundamental part of the process. we have to make implementation reports
15:53:39 [ChrisL]
chris: all the browsers started with low scores. this is not surprising
15:54:48 [ChrisL]
doug:yes we do need more tests
15:55:46 [ChrisL]
erik: we can do more testing of interactions
15:56:10 [ChrisL]
doug: also svg=html tets are needed - good to test, but outside our current scope
15:56:21 [ChrisL]
15:56:35 [ChrisL]
erik: want to see that in the charter for the new work in svg 2.0
15:57:00 [ChrisL]
doug: very bad for morale to hold up 1.1se while the test suite gets bigger
15:57:41 [ChrisL]
patrick: happy to contribute more tests as long as they are reviewed
15:58:02 [ChrisL]
doug: its time consuming work. 1.2T spent a year to do that
15:58:18 [ChrisL]
erik: we need a new automated test harness really
15:58:29 [ChrisL]
doug: can call this out more explicitly
16:03:05 [ChrisL]
doug: goot to have microsoft join the SVG IG to help with torture tests
16:04:09 [ChrisL]
patrick: location for the extra two days are now confirmed
16:04:13 [ChrisL]
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GA_SVGWG()10:30AM has ended
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Attendees were [IPcaller], ed, Shepazu, ChrisL, [Microsoft]
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rrsagent, make minutes
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I have made the request to generate ChrisL
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